Do spirits have bodies?

Blocked

Hi Shimmer,

Everyone on this thread now agrees that angels, (which ARE spirit beings) have bodies except for you.

Shall we continue the discussion? Will you answer to my Phil 3 point about the BODY Paul was hoping for?

Or is this thread now about what kind of body Jesus was raised from the dead in?

peace,
mike

July 17, 2011 at 11:33 pm#252769

Participant

Quote (Pastry @ July 18 2011,01:39)

Shimmer! The way I understand it, when Jesus died, He went to Heaven as A Spiritual Body. The flesh body God disposed of it, like He did with Moses. The Spirit which was present in the flesh body is the same Spirit that He had before He became a man. John 17:5….Just like we will be, that is why we also know who we were here on earth. Jesus knew where He came from and with what glory He had with His Father. The glory He is speaking of is the Spirit Being He was, and He is again. He was changed into Hos Spiritual Body in an twinkle of an eye. Just like those that are present here on earth, when Jesus returns.
1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Peace and Love Irene

Thank you Irene. I'm beginning to see how you are thinking about this subject. But there appears to be a problem with what you said in your post.

You said, or seem to be saying, that when Jesus was dead in the grave his Spirit was in a Spiritual Body with God – is that correct? I'm not sure you were clear on this point?

Then, when he was raised from the dead, his Spirit was again raised into a Spiritual Body.

Am I right in thinking that is what you mean?

In the poll that Mike set up he was laughing saying that Istari thinks Jesus 'Hung up' his Flesh and Bone body in a closet until he returned to Earth.

But are you then not saying a similar thing in that Jesus 'hung up his Spiritual body in a closet' until he was raised from the dead?

Irene, I am only trying to understand the different points of view here – I'm not really caring but this thing has gone on long enough and is still a long way from everyone agreeing the same thing – even between you and Mike and Terraricca.

July 17, 2011 at 11:36 pm#252770

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 18 2011,01:55)

Shimmer……….When Jesus' body died He was truly completely dead, his thought perished just like ours do when we Die. Jesus' Body scripture say did no see corruption but was resurected and this is our hope it is the resurrection with bodies from the dead When Jesus cried out “My God , My God, Has thou forsaken me” he was not joking he fully understood he was about to completely die and would stay dead not be transform into any other body. His own word were I was (dead) and am alive for evermore People don't want to truly believe he was truly dead, and he would have remained dead for ever if God did not resurrect his body and add spirit back into it. Its just that simple, But Mystery Religion has all kinds of way to twist that simple fact up, to conform to its false teachings. Shimmer don't be decieved Jesus was truly dead, completely dead, would never live again with out his resurrected BODY

peace and love………………………………….gene

Hi Gene

I hear what you say – and thanks.

Right now I'm listening to everyones views and not making any preferences as to who is right or wrong or whatever.

So many views and some changing over time it's hard for me to know what to believe – or who. Istari was good and I still believe more of what he said at this time but others also making sense at other times.

July 17, 2011 at 11:38 pm#252771

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ July 18 2011,04:43)

shimmer

Quote

*See the missing part? So does that change your answer, or still the same?

Thanks.

when did Christ body died ? at the cross right ,how long the body as to be dead to be dead ?one second ,one minute,one hour,one day ?to me it is when the last breath is given,whatever time that takes ,so then wen is the spirit or soul of Christ goes ?
he definitely do not stay in the dead body,so it return to God ,but did he ,because Christ says that he had not gone to the father yet to Magdalene;
Jn 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father.

so his work was not yet done on earth but he was no longer a man remember that the man died on the cross,

Pierre

Hi Terraricca.

From what I read of what you are saying, Jesus' spirit went up to God but Jesus himself stayed on Earth (Until he rose up to Heaven, I guess?)

But my question was only to ask if the Spirit that went up to God was in a body?

Thanks.

July 17, 2011 at 11:42 pm#252772

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 18 2011,07:57)

Hi Shimmer,

Everyone on this thread now agrees that angels, (which ARE spirit beings) have bodies except for you.

Shall we continue the discussion? Will you answer to my Phil 3 point about the BODY Paul was hoping for?

Or is this thread now about what kind of body Jesus was raised from the dead in?

peace,
mike

Hi Mike.
Your response is interesting, thank you – but I don't understand.

The question I asked is exactly to do with the thread topic.

The question is :

Did the Spirit (of Jesus that was resting with God when the body of Jesus was dead in the grave) have a Body?

I think that pretty much reflects the thread topic.

Mike, I'm only asking because I have been confused by all the different views.

Thanks.

July 18, 2011 at 12:20 am#252775

Participant

Quote (shimmer @ July 18 2011,17:38)

Quote (terraricca @ July 18 2011,04:43)

shimmer

Quote

*See the missing part? So does that change your answer, or still the same?

Thanks.

so his work was not yet done on earth but he was no longer a man remember that the man died on the cross,

Pierre

Hi Terraricca.

From what I read of what you are saying, Jesus' spirit went up to God but Jesus himself stayed on Earth (Until he rose up to Heaven, I guess?)

But my question was only to ask if the Spirit that went up to God was in a body?

Thanks.

shimmer

read my comment again you may see what i say

Pierre

July 18, 2011 at 12:26 am#252776

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ July 18 2011,18:20)

Quote (shimmer @ July 18 2011,17:38)

Quote (terraricca @ July 18 2011,04:43)

shimmer

Quote

*See the missing part? So does that change your answer, or still the same?

Thanks.

so his work was not yet done on earth but he was no longer a man remember that the man died on the cross,

Pierre

Hi Terraricca.

From what I read of what you are saying, Jesus' spirit went up to God but Jesus himself stayed on Earth (Until he rose up to Heaven, I guess?)

But my question was only to ask if the Spirit that went up to God was in a body?

Thanks.

shimmer

read my comment again you may see what i say

Pierre

shimmer

and yes Christ got his previous form ,body, glory, back but this would make him invisible to man ,
and to finish his work he staid and materialized as required for what was left for him to do .

Pierre

July 18, 2011 at 12:46 am#252777

Blocked

Quote (shimmer @ July 17 2011,17:42)

The question I asked is exactly to do with the thread topic.

Okay Shimmer,

I want to be involved in the current discussion. I just wanted to have you finish our last discussion first.

But just a quick note about your question: Consider your own words “spirit that WENT UP TO God”. If that spirit was “everywhere all the time”, then it couldn't “GO” anywhere – for it would have already BEEN THERE the whole time.

So for Jesus' spirit to be WITH God, while NOT still being WITH his body, there would have to be something separating where that spirit WAS from where it WAS NOT. There would also have to be something separating Jesus' spirit FROM all the other spirits of people that have returned to the God who gave them.

So whether God is storing everyone's spirits/souls/memories in separate plastic garbage bags, or if they are floating somewhere like bubbles in thin air, they are encased by an outer perimeter – which is a “body”.

Shimmer, Click Here to see a photo of a drop of water. Even though the body of the drop of water is composed of the water itself, it is STILL a body that separates that one drop from everything else in existence.

(Btw, this was my answer to Istari's “hard” question about how if spirit is what's IN a body, then how can it be what the body is made of? I just didn't see how it was fair for me to keep answering HIS points while he, for over 300 pages, avoided mine. And that's why I wasn't willing to address that point until he agreed to the Q and A thing. He didn't, so I didn't. )

So picture all of our spirits that have gone back to God as these little drops of water floating around in space. At His designated time, God will either transform THOSE bodies into more “advanced” ones, or create a new body to place THAT body into.

This is how I see it anyway.

peace and love,
mike

July 18, 2011 at 1:00 am#252782

Pastry

Participant

Quote (shimmer @ July 18 2011,10:33)

Quote (Pastry @ July 18 2011,01:39)

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Peace and Love Irene

Thank you Irene. I'm beginning to see how you are thinking about this subject. But there appears to be a problem with what you said in your post.

You said, or seem to be saying, that when Jesus was dead in the grave his Spirit was in a Spiritual Body with God – is that correct? I'm not sure you were clear on this point?

Then, when he was raised from the dead, his Spirit was again raised into a Spiritual Body.

Am I right in thinking that is what you mean?

In the poll that Mike set up he was laughing saying that Istari thinks Jesus 'Hung up' his Flesh and Bone body in a closet until he returned to Earth.

But are you then not saying a similar thing in that Jesus 'hung up his Spiritual body in a closet' until he was raised from the dead?

Shimmer! There is no easy way to explain your question. The flesh body of Jesus had to stay dead because of the ransom which is the sacrifice for all of our sins and Adams sin. That took away the dead sentence. Then Jesus was a Spirit Being before He came to earth. No other man could ever do this. because He did not come from Adam like we did. So that made Him the perfect sacrifice.
Then Jesus asked if He can have back the glory He had with His Father. We know in order to be with His Father He had to be a Spirit being. John 17:5
He was simple dead, and when God resurrected Him He took on the same Spiritual Body which He had before the world was. Only now He is immortal, never to die again.
All according to Scriptures….I had to laugh when you said hung up His Spiritual Body. There is no Scripture what God does even with our Spirits when we die. And at the resurrection we too will either get a Spiritual Body or a new human body, it all depends what we will be….with our former Spirti or mind. Paul talks about what our Spirit is our minds. But that is another subject….The Saints will rule with Jesus and the meek will inherit the earth. .Peace Irene

July 18, 2011 at 9:55 am#252831

Participant

Hi Terra.

Your thoughts on things are getting clearer to me now. I do see how you are thinking.

However, I am still confused on the issue of 'Did the Spirit of Christ, while his body was dead, have a body?'

The reason I ask is because Scriptures says it was when Jesus was raised from the dead that he was given a Spiritual Body – which is spoken of in this forum as a Spirit Body.

I'm sorry to go on but can you see how this is confusing me?

Thank you though… nearer to clearer – I think.

July 18, 2011 at 9:56 am#252832

Participant

Hi Mike,

You are certainly making sense now. I get the thing about the water droplets – thanks for that – it is helping.

But in the end, if the water droplets of the Spirit (In a manner of speaking) are just floating around in space – are they then not everywhere – all at the same time? Isn't that what Istari said?

And, please don't get too deep into this, but – if the droplets of Spirit Water are everywhere – are they still a Body… and since these droplets are all individually DNA'd, can they then not intermingle all together mixing in among millions of other droplets from other Spirits without causing a problem?

As you say, when God deems it, he can call all the droplets of any spirit back together in one place to form a Body (Or maybe the Spirit itself calls it's droplets together to form a body on Earth…

Sorry Mike, but it seems to me that this is the same opinion that Istari has been saying all along – just using different words.

Am I mixing up what you two have been saying all this time?

You seem to be making perfect sense when you put it this way.

July 18, 2011 at 9:59 am#252833

Participant

Hi Irene,

I hear what you say about the ransom – but let's just keep it to the topic of Spirit Body, ok?

The only question I asked and the point was:

Did the Spirit of Jesus that was with God when Jesus was dead in the grave have a body while it was with God in heaven. Was it in a Body.

The reason I ask is that you, Mike, Terra, Istari…everyone… agrees that scriptures says that Jesus was raised into a Spiritual Body (or Spirit Body, as you, Terra and Mike says)

So here is my problem: if the Spirit of Jesus was raised up into a Spirit Body then what Body was it in before it was raised up?

Can we agree to drop the ransom issue – unless you think it is critical to the discussion, of course.

Thanks Irene.

July 18, 2011 at 12:52 pm#252841

Pastry

Participant

Quote (shimmer @ July 18 2011,20:59)

Hi Irene,

I hear what you say about the ransom – but let's just keep it to the topic of Spirit Body, ok?

The only question I asked and the point was:

Did the Spirit of Jesus that was with God when Jesus was dead in the grave have a body while it was with God in heaven. Was it in a Body.

The reason I ask is that you, Mike, Terra, Istari…everyone… agrees that scriptures says that Jesus was raised into a Spiritual Body (or Spirit Body, as you, Terra and Mike says)

So here is my problem: if the Spirit of Jesus was raised up into a Spirit Body then what Body was it in before it was raised up?

Can we agree to drop the ransom issue – unless you think it is critical to the discussion, of course.

Thanks Irene.

Shimmer! Ask yourself is there a Scripture that says if the Spirit that was with God when Jesus died with God. There is none. So how can we say what God is doing. All we do know that after the resurrection Jesus and us Humans will have a new Body with our Spirit in it. Jesus has the same Spirit that He had with His Father before the world was. Hang it on the tree if iou want. I don't see what God does with it. Period…..
And does it matter? We we will be, and Jesus was, sleeping in the grave and know nothing….. just when you go to sleep. The ransom is a very important aspect of the resurrection, because some think Jesus was resurrected with the same body He died in. That is not according to the ransom…..and it is important….
Peace Irene

July 19, 2011 at 1:30 am#252898

Blocked

Quote (shimmer @ July 18 2011,03:55)

The reason I ask is because Scriptures says it was when Jesus was raised from the dead that he was given a Spiritual Body

What scripture says that?

July 19, 2011 at 1:35 am#252899

Blocked

Quote (shimmer @ July 18 2011,03:56)

But in the end, if the water droplets of the Spirit (In a manner of speaking) are just floating around in space – are they then not everywhere – all at the same time? Isn't that what Istari said?

Yes, that is what Istari said. But why would you think that each and every one of them was “everywhere all the time”? If they were, they would be inside of God, outside of God, inside of me, outside of me, etc.

Why couldn't they all be floating in 1 cubic kilometer of space? Like billions of them side by side, with little name tags on each one?

I don't know how or why you jumped from a bunch of individual drops of “spirit water” to all of them being everywhere blending in with each other. What would make you think this?

peace,
mike

July 19, 2011 at 2:15 am#252905

Participant

Quote (shimmer @ July 19 2011,03:55)

Hi Terra.

Your thoughts on things are getting clearer to me now. I do see how you are thinking.

However, I am still confused on the issue of 'Did the Spirit of Christ, while his body was dead, have a body?'

The reason I ask is because Scriptures says it was when Jesus was raised from the dead that he was given a Spiritual Body – which is spoken of in this forum as a Spirit Body.

I'm sorry to go on but can you see how this is confusing me?

Thank you though… nearer to clearer – I think.

shimmer

if Christ would be a man with no preexixtance then what would be his glory that he had before ,

Jn 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.
Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Mt 26:54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”
Mt 26:55 At that time Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me.
Mt 26:56 But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled.”

do you understand those scriptures ?

Pierre

July 19, 2011 at 3:42 am#252912

Blocked

Quote (shimmer @ July 18 2011,03:55)

nearer to clearer

I love that, Shimmer! :laugh:

I'm going to use that one.

July 19, 2011 at 6:17 am#252931

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ July 19 2011,20:15)

Quote (shimmer @ July 19 2011,03:55)

Hi Terra.

Your thoughts on things are getting clearer to me now. I do see how you are thinking.

However, I am still confused on the issue of 'Did the Spirit of Christ, while his body was dead, have a body?'

The reason I ask is because Scriptures says it was when Jesus was raised from the dead that he was given a Spiritual Body – which is spoken of in this forum as a Spirit Body.

I'm sorry to go on but can you see how this is confusing me?

Thank you though… nearer to clearer – I think.

shimmer

if Christ would be a man with no preexixtance then what would be his glory that he had before ,

Jn 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.
Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

do you understand those scriptures ?

Pierre

shimmer

you can ad this ;1Pe 1:9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

July 19, 2011 at 9:50 am#252946

Participant

Hi Mike, Terrarica and Irene.

THIS IS MY FINAL POST IN THIS THREAD!!

Thank you all, though. Good verses Terra. But I believe in the pre-existance of Christ, so no worries there.

With my questions, I now understand what I needed to know. Thank you.

Mike, just to answer you:

Scripture says 'It was raised a Spiritual Body'.

What exactly was the IT that was sown?… what exactly was the IT that was Raised?

As for the water Spirit droplet: Yes, inside you, outside you, inside God – but NOT outside of God.

If there was an 'Outside' of God … I can't think…sorry Mike – no 'outside of God' to me.

The droplets with us… You drink some of it… You wash with some of it.

Example, I just had a Lemon and Lime drink. The two were completely mixed – yet I could still separate (discern) the taste of the Lemon from that of the Lime – like a professional wine taster can tell exactly where a wine was grown and any ingredients added – or a food taster knows every ingredients in a meal from one view and one taste of the mixed sauce OF the meal.

You used the example of water droplets to show the Spirit being everywhere – all at the same time – throughout the galaxy.

I understand. Thank you for that. I didn't quite get it the way Istari put it, but I do now

When I look at what you both say, I see, the same thing. Spirits are everywhere all the time.

When, as Istari said, the spirits materialise, isn't that like the invisible water droplets coming together to make a pool of water somewhere on Earth? When they disappear, they split up their droplets and mingle among the rest of Spirit droplets all over the galaxy.

You said how are the droplets everywhere at the same time. No, the droplets of one Spirit makes one spirit. The scattered all over the galaxy droplets are still one spirit but are now everywhere at the same time yet still the one spirit. But because they are not together they are not a Body.

God, you agree, is not a body, and neither is his Spirit – because – they are everywhere all the time.

Spirit does not have a body because it is everywhere all the time (in the Spirit realm).

Mike – I think you just said: exactly what Istari said from the start… Spirits do not have bodies.

Case for the prosection: Dismissed.
Thank you.

July 19, 2011 at 5:41 pm#252964