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Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2011,05:46) Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,12:02) Quote Hi Mike, Glad to hear you learned to adjust your questions to get the intended question addressed;
In other words, you are going to take credit for teaching me how to redefine and tweak the questions that you refused to answer the first time I asked them?
Thanks Ed! Thanks for being such a diverter that I've had to learn to word my questions ever so delicately! Quote We do not really know what kind of bodies Angels possess when they are not in our plane of existence.
So you agree that they must have a body of some sort then? Excellent!
peace,
mike
Hi Mike,It is evident from scripture that they do, at least when they are in our plane of existence.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,13:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2011,05:34) Hi Ed, Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,11:45) You are also reading into the verse to say son's of God means angels.
Do you refute this understanding? If so, why? And what scriptural support do you have to claim “sons of God” refer to someone other than angels?And more importantly: What does THIS have to do with the discussion we're having? Are we debating whether or not the sons of God in Job 1 were angels? How does this fit into our discussion, Ed? Is it perhaps just a diversion? In fact, the only reason we're discussing whether or not GOD is “everywhere all the time” is because you gave a lame answer to my question about ANGELS being “everywhere all the time”.
mike
Hi Mike,Do you not consider “US” to be “Sons of God”. (See)
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:
but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Like I said Ed: WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING?I will deal with your misunderstandings about this issue AFTER we've cleared the first issue off the table, okay? (In the meantime, here is a hint: Where did Satan, one of these “sons of God” say he came FROM? And which HUMAN son of God witnessed God laying the foundations of the earth?)
Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,13:20) Quote what is it that separates where the being of a particular angel IS from where the being of that same particular angel IS NOT at any given time? Um, Ah, space?
Very good, Ed. Now if you can realize that “space” has no power to separate one thing from another UNLESS there is an outer perimeter to those things that space can come between, you will understand it as I do.If there is no END to the one being, then there would be no way space could come BETWEEN that first being and another being.
Are you with me so far?
Quote (terraricca @ June 27 2011,06:04) Quote (Ed J @ June 27 2011,12:58) Quote (terraricca @ June 27 2011,05:14) edj Quote So you don't really believe “God The Father” is in you? …only in a poetic sense?
You further believe the “Holy Spirit” is everywhere, but not “God The Father”?so what is or who is THE HOLY SPIRIT ? if you answer that question ,ED you will know if we can have or possess the holy spirit ,right?
as for God being in anybody is ludicrous,again answer the previous question and then we or you can answer to that question as well.
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Quote so what is or who is THE HOLY SPIRIT ?
God. (See Acts 5:3-4)
Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the HolySpirit,
and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold,
was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.Quote ED you will know if we can have or possess the holy spirit ,right?
The HolySpirit possesses us; not the other way around. (2 Cor.6:16)
As God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them;
and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (2 Cor.6:16)Quote as for God being in anybody is ludicrous,again answer the previous question and then we or you can answer to that question as well.
Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
is above all, and through all, and in you all.God bless
eD j (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjSO YOU STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT ,RIGHT?
you are showing all those scriptures but you do not understand them ,right?
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Quote SO YOU STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT ,RIGHT?
The “HolySpirit” is YHVH; does this trouble you?Quote you are showing all those scriptures but you do not understand them ,right?
What would make YOU believe I don't (according to Pierre) understand the scriptures I post?God bless
eD j (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgedj
Quote The “HolySpirit” is YHVH; does this trouble you? NO, it shows you do not know ,how can it be that God can give the holy spirit but do you think he share himself?
to me the holy spirit is of God but not God,
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2011,06:20) Hi Pierre, Ed and I have discussed Acts 5 before. Here are the TWO parts of that passage we have to take into consideration:
1. 3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.”
2. 9 Peter said to her, “How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”
Ed is quick to point out the first (and ONLY the first) part of this passage so he can feel secure with his claim that the Holy Spirit OF God is the God it is the Spirit OF. (Funny that he can not make the connection that this same reasoning is what the Trinitarians use to claim the Son OF God is the God he is the Son OF.
)At any rate, Ed conveniently and PURPOSELY ignores the second part of the passage, which clarifies that the Holy Spirit is NOT God Himself, but “the Spirit OF the Lord”.
This is called “cherry-picking scriptures”, and I think I'll add that to the list in the Bizzaro thread.
peace,
mike
Hi Mike,When the prophets say: “The Word of The LORD came to me”,
are you asserting it was Jesus (according to Mike) that came to them?
Was it not the “HolySpirit” that came to them instead? will you ignore this?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,13:29)
John 14:17 The Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not,
neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
NET ©
the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot accept, because it does not see him or know him. But you know him, because he resides 2 with you and will be in you.Footnote #2:
Joh 14:17 #2: Or “he remains.”Definition for the word used:
meno
1) to remain, abide
1a) in reference to place
1a1) to sojourn, tarry
1a2) not to depart
1a2a) to continue to be present
1a2b) to be held, kept, continually
1b) in reference to time
1b1) to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure
1b1a) of persons, to survive, live
1c) in reference to state or condition
1c1) to remain as one, not to become another or different
2) to wait for, await oneQuote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,13:29)
2 Cor.6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God;
as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
NET ©
And what mutual agreement does the temple of God have with idols? For we are the temple of the living God, just as God said, “I will live in them 2 and will walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”Footnote #2:
2Co 6:16 #2: Or “live among them,” “live with them.”I will live in them. The OT text that lies behind this passage (Lev 26:11-12) speaks of God dwelling in the midst of his people. The Greek preposition en in the phrase en autoi” (“in them”) can also have that meaning (“among” or “with”).
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2011,06:29) Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,13:19) Hi Mike, You may have overlooked my previous response to this.
When people go to Church to present themselves to The LORD,
does that mean the LORD was not with them before? In more term,
does that mean that the LORD is only at the church where they're going?
Not at all. I PURPOSELY ignored it as the diversion from the point that it is.God does NOT dwell on earth or inside of any particular person – or even a group of people. God's dwelling place is in heaven, Ed – or don't you believe the scriptures?
You must pray for discernment as King Solomon did. You must pray to understand that God being “with us” and “in us” and “among us” are all figurative ways to say that our God supports and helps us when we strive to do what is right in His eyes.
Ed, consider that if a single thunder clap was literally INSIDE of you, it would explode you from the inside out. How much more the God to whom the loudest thunder clap is a faint whisper? God dwells in UNAPPROACHABLE light Ed. You can't even APPROACH that light, let alone have it physically and literally INSIDE OF YOU.
Hi Mike,Quote God does NOT dwell on earth or inside of any particular person – or even a group of people. God's dwelling place is in heaven, Ed – or don't you believe the scriptures?
I believe the scriptures, but not the 'spin' that you put on them!
Do you not believe that 2Cor.6:16 has been fulfilled?God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them;
and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (2Cor.6:16)Quote God being “with us” and “in us” and “among us” are all figurative ways to say that our God supports and helps us when we strive to do what is right in His eyes.
So you do not believe YHVH is in you?Quote Ed, consider that if a single thunder clap was literally INSIDE of you, it would explode you from the inside out. How much more the God to whom the loudest thunder clap is a faint whisper? God dwells in UNAPPROACHABLE light Ed. You can't even APPROACH that light, let alone have it physically and literally INSIDE OF YOU.
Col.2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,13:46) Hi Mike, When the prophets say: “The Word of The LORD came to me”,
are you asserting it was Jesus (according to Mike) that came to them?
Was it not the “HolySpirit” that came to them instead? will you ignore this?
No Ed. What you are doing is playing the Istari game here. You assume that because “word” has a meaning of one thing one time, it can have no other meaning ever. We all know this NOT to be the case though, right?Sometimes, the word of God came to people through an angel of Jehovah, and NOT through His Holy Spirit. Once, God even allowed a DONKEY to speak as a way of getting his word to Balaam.
In these instances, “the word of God” simply means “the words that God has spoken to my via one source or another”. Sometimes that “word of God” comes through dreams, visions, angels, prophets, etc. But you are right that SOMETIMES it refers to words of God coming to them THROUGH the Holy Spirit, but it doesn't mean the Holy Spirit IS “the word of God” that came to them.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2011,06:35) Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,13:20) Quote what is it that separates where the being of a particular angel IS from where the being of that same particular angel IS NOT at any given time? Um, Ah, space?
Very good, Ed. Now if you can realize that “space” has no power to separate one thing from another UNLESS there is an outer perimeter to those things that space can come between, you will understand it as I do.If there is no END to the one being, then there would be no way space could come BETWEEN that first being and another being.
Are you with me so far?
Hi Mike,Are you referring to when Angels are in our plane of existence?
Or are you assuming it applies to both the physical and the spiritual planes?
I agree with you about the physical plane, but where is your evidence of the other plane?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgedj
Col.2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.this scriptures would tell you if you understand it what the holy spirit is ,
Pierre
Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,12:02) We do not really know what kind of bodies Angels possess when they are not in our plane of existence. Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2011,05:46) So you agree that they must have a body of some sort then? Excellent! Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,13:32) Hi Mike, It is evident from scripture that they do, at least when they are in our plane of existence.
What just happened here Ed? First you say we don't know what KIND of bodies angels have when they are NOT in our plane. Then I comment that your statement agrees that it must be some kind of body. Then you hop-scotch back to “IN our plane of existence”.Let's stick with OUTSIDE OF our plane of existence. You have clearly stated that you don't know what KIND of bodies they have OUTSIDE OF our plane, which leads me to believe that YOU believe it is a body of SOME KIND.
Do you believe this or not? Stop playing games.
Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,14:03) I agree with you about the physical plane, but where is your evidence of the other plane?
When prophets have visions of heaven, is their mind in our plane of existence………..or in heaven? Yet they see angels WITH bodies and wings flying here and there, right?Let me turn it around on you. Where is YOUR evidence that angels would be any different in heaven than they are on earth? Just because God opens the eyes of humans to SEE those angels now and then doesn't mean those angels don't look the same all the time, right?
Now, let's add to that ONE simple question for you, so we can continue:
Ed, do you agree that since you claimed “space” is what separates one angel in heaven from another, that there has to be an “end” to what constitutes the being of those angels in order for “space” to even come between them?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2011,07:13) Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,12:02) We do not really know what kind of bodies Angels possess when they are not in our plane of existence. Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2011,05:46) So you agree that they must have a body of some sort then? Excellent! Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,13:32) Hi Mike, It is evident from scripture that they do, at least when they are in our plane of existence.
What just happened here Ed? First you say we don't know what KIND of bodies angels have when they are NOT in our plane. Then I comment that your statement agrees that it must be some kind of body. Then you hop-scotch back to “IN our plane of existence”.Let's stick with OUTSIDE OF our plane of existence. You have clearly stated that you don't know what KIND of bodies they have OUTSIDE OF our plane, which leads me to believe that YOU believe it is a body of SOME KIND.
Do you believe this or not? Stop playing games.
Hi Mike,OK; so you want to explore questions of a speculative nature.
I don't know if the word “bodies” would qualify to describe an Angel outside of the physical plane.
Consider a holographic projection, would you consider that “a body”?I do not believe angels are everywhere at the same time, but that
doesn't mean I believe they are isolated to only one place at a time, as your words seem to suggest.Do you have any evidence?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2011,07:21) Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,14:03) I agree with you about the physical plane, but where is your evidence of the other plane?
When prophets have visions of heaven, is their mind in our plane of existence………..or in heaven? Yet they see angels WITH bodies and wings flying here and there, right?Let me turn it around on you. Where is YOUR evidence that angels would be any different in heaven than they are on earth? Just because God opens the eyes of humans to SEE those angels now and then doesn't mean those angels don't look the same all the time, right?
Now, let's add to that ONE simple question for you, so we can continue:
Ed, do you agree that since you claimed “space” is what separates one angel in heaven from another, that there has to be an “end” to what constitutes the being of those angels in order for “space” to even come between them?
Hi Mike,You are assuming that visions are realities of the spirit realm.
Peter's vision of the sheet dropping doesn't fit your premise?
Also is Rev.4:6-8 the place you are going to go after you die?Quote Ed, do you agree that since you claimed “space” is what separates one angel in heaven from another, that there has to be an “end” to what constitutes the being of those angels in order for “space” to even come between them?
Sure, I would agree with that premice.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ June 27 2011,07:36) edj Quote holographic projection you have been watching the show RED DWARF again
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Never heard of the show RED DWARF?
Is that what they air on Canada TV?God bless
eD j (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 27 2011,14:57) Quote (terraricca @ June 27 2011,07:36) edj Quote holographic projection you have been watching the show RED DWARF again
Pierre
Hi Pierre,Never heard of the show RED DWARF?
Is that what they air on Canada TV?God bless
eD j (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjgo on YouTube,
and try it it uses you holographic system
it is a British show very funny
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ June 26 2011,15:48) it is a British show very funny
Hmmmmmmmmm……..aren't “British show” and “very funny” antonyms?They are however VERY GOOD at documentaries and should stick with them.
Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2011,14:54) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2011,07:21) Ed, do you agree that since you claimed “space” is what separates one angel in heaven from another, that there has to be an “end” to what constitutes the being of those angels in order for “space” to even come between them?
Hi Mike,Sure, I would agree with that premice.
God bless
Ed J
Okay, that's a start, Ed. We know what constitutes the “end” of Ed J, right? Is it not your BODY or “outer perimeter” that distinguishes where the being of Ed J begins and where it ends? So if angels also have an “end”, there is some limiting parameter that tells us “This is where the being of Gabriel ends”, for example. That limiting parameter is a body, whether it appears and acts to us like a hologram, a cloudy mist, or a man-like creature with wings. Either way it is still a body which encompasses the being of Gabriel and makes what's inside it the being of Gabriel and what's outside it NOT the being of Gabriel.Here is some more of my “proof”:
1. To EVERY SEED God gives a body to His liking.
2. If there is nothing separating one being from the other(s), those beings would all just blend into each other, creating ONE being.
3. If there is nothing that distinguishes where a particular being ends, that being would go on and on into infinity, and would never be able to COME TO or LEAVE FROM any place at any time – for it would already be everywhere all the time.
4. The dead, who are risen to a life in heaven, will be given spiritual bodies, and as is the heavenly man, so ARE those of heaven.
5. We wait for the Lord, who will transform our lowly bodies into glorious bodies like the one he HAS NOW.
6. Jesus became a life-giving SPIRIT.
Ed, #2 and #3 are just common sense. The others are all scriptural. If Jesus now IS a spirit, as the scriptures say, and Jesus DOES have a new glorious body, as the scriptures say, then at least ONE spirit has a body.
If you believe that Jesus is the ONLY one in heaven with a body, then you believe that the ruler OVER the other heavenly beings is for some reason more constrained than they are – which doesn't make a lick of sense to me.
And if you consider that Paul was answering the question, “What kind of bodies will we be raised in?” when he said, “as is the man of heaven, so ARE the heavenly”, we can assume that those raised to a life in heaven will have the same kind of spiritual bodies that those of heaven ALREADY have.
What say you?
peace,
mike
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