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Mike, you need to expand your mind, look around, google some, your limiting your mind to just heavennet, just 3 people's agreement with you.
Jesus was a Jew, he thought like a Jew, and of course Jesus knew God before, it pays to look into Jewish thought.
Istari was right all along with this.
Find me one source that agrees with you, and that God has form, gaurantee it will be Mormon, Herbert Armstrong or some such.
Istari has not only the majority of Christianity, plus the history of Christianity, but as I have found out, Judaism.Mike, God is incorporeal (without shape or form).
Quote (shimmer @ May 16 2011,17:42) Mike, you need to expand your mind, look around, google some, your limiting your mind to just heavennet, just 3 people's agreement with you. Jesus was a Jew, he thought like a Jew, and of course Jesus knew God before, it pays to look into Jewish thought.
Istari was right all along with this.
Find me one source that agrees with you, and that God has form, gaurantee it will be Mormon, Herbert Armstrong or some such.
Istari has not only the majority of Christianity, plus the history of Christianity, but as I have found out, Judaism.Mike, God is incorporeal (without shape or form).
Shimmer! Did you know Mr.. Armstrong or the Church Members He started? If you did, you would not compare Him with the Mormons….
In fact I don't even remember what Mr. Armstrong believed as far as Spirit beings are concerned….
Question in
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
What do you consider what a natural Body is, and what a Spiritual;body is?
BTW I don't go by any one on goggle what they perceive, I go by scripture only. Therefore I didn't read those articles you put up….
IT IS RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY, who is it??
Peace IreneIrene,
God gave it a body just as he pleases – where does it say Spirit?
Everything in 1 Cor 15 speaks (as Mikeboll says) of the RAISING OF THE DEAD.Are Spirits RAISED FROM THE DEAD? For a seed to grow it must first die then it can germinate.
The BODY must first die before it can be REBORN.
what was the point of Jesus saying to Nicodemus that he must be reborn to see the kingdom of heaven?
Those that put off the flesh and put on the Spirit – The Apostles and Saints – where they not STILL human beings. Human beings with Flesh bodies… Was Jesus not a human being when he walked and talked after he was RAISED FROM THE DEAD.Irene, Your Posts against me AT THE BEGINNING WERE ANGRY precisely because you supported Mikeboll and had nothing to do with your belief – this also from Terraricca.
You know it so please dont say 'I don't hate anyone!' – or maybe just as you cannot understand the difference between 'Spiritual Body' and 'Spirit body' (i.e. That the latter is a creation of your own mind!) the same that you can't understand the difference between posting a thoughtful idea that is incorrect and posting splurge just to say against someone (I.e. That the latter is due to Anger).When I challenged you before on CELESTIAL BODY you caved in.
Irene, you were so ANGRY your eyes were so blinded with HATE that even COMMONSENSE illuded you.
How did you EVER get to the position of wanting to claim that CELESTIAL BODIES were Angels?? Please!!!
So then GOD, who is a Spirit, is a Celestial Body in the heavens…. Irene, Irene, only anger could blind someone so much – Blind Anger!And TERRESTRIAL BODIES … ha ha ha … Irene….!!!
You said that TERRESTRIAL BODIES are SUN, Moon and STARS…. ha ha ha ha…. Irene, Irene….And you say George says Scriptures mentions 'Spirit Bodies' because if you drop the 'UAL' of the end you get 'Spirit Bodies'…. Irene, Irene, Irene…. So much pity for you in your blind hatredness.
Because, Irene, only a Formless invisible Spirit of intelligent illusion could have infused your visible body form and driven you to make – and maintain such claims of woeful nonsense.
Are you reading back what you wrote – what you think (I say think not thought because you may still be thinking those things to help you cope with the horror of your errors)
And your husband is complicit in this too!! He supports your delusion of misinterpretation?
Please then Irene. One more time: Show me a definition of SPIRIT BODY.
(Please note the exact words as this is critical : “Spirit Body”)Ok, just to help, please also post a LINK to a description from any source for SPIRIT BODY.
Then, SPIRITUAL BODY.
Thank you.
Mike,
The Spirit is constrained by God. Everything belongs to him and is from him and is in him.But God is not a body. A body needs something outside of it to be called a body but God has nothing outside him.
Spirit is force, intellect, power, the animator, the mind.
God keeps the Spirits in mind – not in body!
The Spirit is sent into the body to give it a mind, a purpose, to animate it and use it.
The Spirit is a force to do the will of God – the Angel/Messenger.
The Spirit in man is the Will to act on the body and, specifically in man, to reach back and know God.Mike, I am surprised that you ask me that question – were you testing me – or did you think I could not answer – would not answer – why DID you ask it?
Like Irene, were you just blinded by rage that even obvious things are cut off from you – did you really have to ask that question – ,…yes then, because you thought 'Aha'…. Poor you then!
Quote (Pastry @ May 16 2011,19:44) Shimmer! Did you know Mr.. Armstrong or the Church Members He started? If you did, you would not compare Him with the Mormons….
In fact I don't even remember what Mr. Armstrong believed as far as Spirit beings are concerned….
Question in
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
What do you consider what a natural Body is, and what a Spiritual;body is?
BTW I don't go by any one on goggle what they perceive, I go by scripture only. Therefore I didn't read those articles you put up….
IT IS RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY, who is it??
Peace Irene
Irene this is talking about the ressurection from the dead, it has to be sown first just like a bare grain of wheat .
Has nothing to do with anything else but Jesus's resurrected body and all those who will follow, the NEW body.” But someone will say, “How are the dead raised?” and, “With what kind of body do they come?” You foolish one, that which you yourself sow is not made alive unless it dies.
That which you sow, you don't sow the body that will be, but a bare grain, maybe of wheat, or of some other kind”.
“It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is also a spiritual body”.We live in a natural body now, Jesus was resurrected to a spiritual body.
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary on 1st Corinthians 15-37
How are the dead raised up? that is, by what means? How can they be raised? As to the bodies which shall rise. Will it be with the like shape, and form, and stature, and members, and qualities? The former objection is that of those who opposed the doctrine, the latter of curious doubters. To the first the answer is, This was to be brought about by Divine power; that power which all may see does somewhat like it, year after year, in the death and revival of the corn. It is foolish to question the Almighty power of God to raise the dead, when we see it every day quickening and reviving things that are dead. To the second inquiry; The grain undergoes a great change; and so will the dead, when they rise and live again. The seed dies, though a part of it springs into new life, though how it is we cannot fully understand. The works of creation and providence daily teach us to be humble, as well as to admire the Creator's wisdom and goodness. The bodies of the dead, when they rise, will be fitted for the heavenly bodies. The bodies of the dead, when they rise, will be fitted for the heavenly state; and there will be a variety of glories among them. Burying the dead, is like committing seed to the earth, that it may spring out of it again. Nothing is more loathsome than a dead body. But believers shall at the resurrection have bodies, made fit to be for ever united with spirits made perfect. To God all things are possible. He is the Author and Source of spiritual life and holiness, unto all his people, by the supply of his Holy Spirit to the soul; and he will also quicken and change the body by his Spirit. The dead in Christ shall not only rise, but shall rise thus gloriously changed. The bodies of the saints, when they rise again, will be changed. They will be then glorious and spiritual bodies, fitted to the heavenly world and state, where they are ever afterwards to dwell. The human body in its present form, and with its wants and weaknesses, cannot enter or enjoy the kingdom of God.
Shimmer …………..Good Post little one, there will certainly be Physical Bodies in the resurrection of the saints, just like the Body Jesus now enjoys and has. I believe this may take place sooner then we think sis. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
Quote (Istari @ May 16 2011,19:08) Irene,
God gave it a body just as he pleases – where does it say Spirit?
Everything in 1 Cor 15 speaks (as Mikeboll says) of the RAISING OF THE DEAD.Are Spirits RAISED FROM THE DEAD? For a seed to grow it must first die then it can germinate.
The BODY must first die before it can be REBORN.
what was the point of Jesus saying to Nicodemus that he must be reborn to see the kingdom of heaven?
Those that put off the flesh and put on the Spirit – The Apostles and Saints – where they not STILL human beings. Human beings with Flesh bodies… Was Jesus not a human being when he walked and talked after he was RAISED FROM THE DEAD.Irene, Your Posts against me AT THE BEGINNING WERE ANGRY precisely because you supported Mikeboll and had nothing to do with your belief – this also from Terraricca.
You know it so please dont say 'I don't hate anyone!' – or maybe just as you cannot understand the difference between 'Spiritual Body' and 'Spirit body' (i.e. That the latter is a creation of your own mind!) the same that you can't understand the difference between posting a thoughtful idea that is incorrect and posting splurge just to say against someone (I.e. That the latter is due to Anger).When I challenged you before on CELESTIAL BODY you caved in.
Irene, you were so ANGRY your eyes were so blinded with HATE that even COMMONSENSE illuded you.
How did you EVER get to the position of wanting to claim that CELESTIAL BODIES were Angels?? Please!!!
So then GOD, who is a Spirit, is a Celestial Body in the heavens…. Irene, Irene, only anger could blind someone so much – Blind Anger!And TERRESTRIAL BODIES … ha ha ha … Irene….!!!
You said that TERRESTRIAL BODIES are SUN, Moon and STARS…. ha ha ha ha…. Irene, Irene….And you say George says Scriptures mentions 'Spirit Bodies' because if you drop the 'UAL' of the end you get 'Spirit Bodies'…. Irene, Irene, Irene…. So much pity for you in your blind hatredness.
Because, Irene, only a Formless invisible Spirit of intelligent illusion could have infused your visible body form and driven you to make – and maintain such claims of woeful nonsense.
Are you reading back what you wrote – what you think (I say think not thought because you may still be thinking those things to help you cope with the horror of your errors)
And your husband is complicit in this too!! He supports your delusion of misinterpretation?
Please then Irene. One more time: Show me a definition of SPIRIT BODY.
(Please note the exact words as this is critical : “Spirit Body”)Ok, just to help, please also post a LINK to a description from any source for SPIRIT BODY.
Then, SPIRITUAL BODY.
Thank you.
Istari, you are jumping to conclusion, I am not angry… And I wasn't either. I am 72 years old, and I care less what you dish out…. I heard it before from you…. Nothing new under the sun…
but my question to shimmer goes to you too….
as far as my dear Husband goes, He is far above what YOU even can imagine…How can you even know Him, you never met Him, even here……and he won't even post here any longer…. also when I bail out its for a reason, i don't debate when it gets personal… Good bye….
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Peace be with you Irene
Irene
1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
in this scripture do you think it talks about Christ or about the believers in general ?
if you think it is talking about Christ read the first 5 words and tell me how this could be ?
Pierre
Poor you, Irene. You will carry your delusion with you forever.
The reason you don't 'goggle' (sic) is because you HAVE DONE IT – and found you were WRONG.
So, to maintain your 'wrongness' you make out that you don't need to check – ha! Irene, you make yourself into a God, then!!'No Interpretation is given to one person'.
And you are deadly wrong about what you know to be false.
You refuse to acknowledge 'Spiritual Body' because of your vehemence previously has you wrapped up now – and you are embarrassed to climb down – sad.
Oh, and please – Irene, AGE does not mean SAFETY AND SECURITY so don't think that because you are aged by comparison it means God is anymore or less compassionate on deceit – yes Irene, deceit – for you KNOW YOU ARE WRONG!!
God has compassion on those who are gracefully WRONG – yes, but your wrongness is from full knowledge of your wrongness with no regard to righteous truth.
So, it is not to me that you should care what you believe!
Today, I checked the Internet – and – only ONE WEBSITE (the Mormon one as Shimmer mentioned) has a SINGLE RENDERING of 'Spirit Body' (Which is what you are saying).
Every other website states that the SPIRITUAL BODY is the sown body, the body of the dead raised up – JUST AS PAUL SAYS.
Align that with other Scriptures that speak of the raising of the bodies of the dead (The seas give up their dead…etc)
What other DEAD are there – the Spirit? No, Irene, the body. The Spirit that animates the body and gives it purpose goes back to God – so how is the SPIRIT raised up…Ok, not the Spirit, then. So why is their a SPIRIT BODY when the SPIRIT ALREADY EXISTS?
Irene, all you do is as Terraricca does – you post the same verse over and over and have no idea WHY? you refuse to examine it because you KNOW IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.
All three of you are One: Mikeboll, Irene, Terraricca! One almighty God of self delusion.
Praise God that we know why you are like this – Scriptures tells us this was to happen and it has right here in this forum!
Shimmer,
Let me repeat this direct to you:Irene knows she is wrong – she HAS looked up on 'Goggle' and found that she is wrong.
If she were really trying to 'prove her point' she would post evidence but ALL THE EVIDENCE SAYS SHE IS WRONG.
Have you noticed that neither Mikeboll nor Terriracca have posted any 'Proof' but just keep spinning the same thread!!
Why? Simple…they know they are wrong but Want to hate Istari…They are driven by hate in their hearts and so are deceived and blinded.
Quote (Istari @ May 17 2011,11:04) Shimmer,
Let me repeat this direct to you:Irene knows she is wrong – she HAS looked up on 'Goggle' and found that she is wrong.
If she were really trying to 'prove her point' she would post evidence but ALL THE EVIDENCE SAYS SHE IS WRONG.
Have you noticed that neither Mikeboll nor Terriracca have posted any 'Proof' but just keep spinning the same thread!!
Why? Simple…they know they are wrong but Want to hate Istari…They are driven by hate in their hearts and so are deceived and blinded.
istariyou do not answer my question why would i keep one way conversation ,you do the same with Mike,and irene ,
and as a abit may be with others?
Pierre
Terraricca,
It is speaking of ALL BODIES. Yes, even Christ!Scriptures states that he would be counted amongs the sinners.
Why? Because he TOOK ON THE SINS OF MANKIND.What you express is sentiment – it is like Peter saying, 'No not you Lord (To suffer death)' Jesus rounded on him and said, 'Get thee behind me Satan!…you are a stumbling block to me…for these things MUST BE to fulfil the Scriptures.
Sentiment is a failing in righteous debate – truth is not found by feeling sorry for reality!
Has anyone read the definition of SPIRIT from Mikeboll's netBible.
Then please check what He posted – a little bit of limited amount specifially chosen to TRY to put his point only to what he says.
Then, just to re-cover himself – after even his own favourite TOOL let's him down – he STILL INSISTS that there is such a thing as SPIRIT BODY.
Now, please, someone ask him in HIS OWN STYLE – MIKEBOLL STYLE: Show One Single VALID description OF SPIRIT BODY – which he insists is real!
Irene won't prove anything.
And Terrarica wouldn't know where to begin so don't bother with him.Quote (Istari @ May 17 2011,12:21) Terraricca,
It is speaking of ALL BODIES. Yes, even Christ!Scriptures states that he would be counted amongs the sinners.
Why? Because he TOOK ON THE SINS OF MANKIND.What you express is sentiment – it is like Peter saying, 'No not you Lord (To suffer death)' Jesus rounded on him and said, 'Get thee behind me Satan!…you are a stumbling block to me…for these things MUST BE to fulfil the Scriptures.
Sentiment is a failing in righteous debate – truth is not found by feeling sorry for reality!
istariyour answer is your best guess of your opinion,right
1Co 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
1Co 15:43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.this scriptures do not talk about Christ ,and Paul does not talking to Christ but to believers,people who will die unless they believe in the grace of God s son
Christ was not a perishable commodity ,he was perfect and was not to die from sin what was all of us ;in dishonor;
show scriptures that this is not so ;please
Pierre
Terra,
It is clear you have lost your way.You have – for a long time now – had nothing of value to contribute.
You appeared at one time – like Mikeboll – to have sound knowledge. But now you have lost your way.
If you cannot read the s ruptures that says Jesus is the foremost – the leader – and 'we' are to follow, that what he has gone through 'we' must go through too.
This includes dying in body FROM SIN and being REBORN Sinless.
Terra, read the Scriptures concerning the prophecy of Christ. See that it states that Jesus died to expunge the original sin of Adam drawing all of it to himself.
I'm seeing a falling away of your belief, Terra. It seems your only desire these days is to court controversy.
Isaiah 53:12
Luke 22:37I am amazed at the lack of wisdom found among those who claim to be wise!
However, it is clear then why there is so much cross talk in these threads – there are many who simply cannot understand basic English but have an desire to act as if they do.This is called SelfSeeking and only leads to disaster.
istari
Quote Terra,
It is clear you have lost your way.You have – for a long time now – had nothing of value to contribute.
You appeared at one time – like Mikeboll – to have sound knowledge. But now you have lost your way.
If you cannot read the s ruptures that says Jesus is the foremost – the leader – and 'we' are to follow, that what he has gone through 'we' must go through too.
This includes dying in body FROM SIN and being REBORN Sinless.
Terra, read the Scriptures concerning the prophecy of Christ. See that it states that Jesus died to expunge the original sin of Adam drawing all of it to himself.
I'm seeing a falling away of your belief, Terra. It seems your only desire these days is to court controversy.
Quote Isaiah 53:12
Luke 22:37I am amazed at the lack of wisdom found among those who claim to be wise!
However, it is clear then why there is so much cross talk in these threads – there are many who simply cannot understand basic English but have an desire to act as if they do.This is called SelfSeeking and only leads to disaster.
Quote Terra, like Irene, you are unwisely purposely misunderstanding what is being said in those verses. this are all the answers you give me to my quote
Quote istari your answer is your best guess of your opinion,right
1Co 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
1Co 15:43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.this scriptures do not talk about Christ ,and Paul does not talking to Christ but to believers,people who will die unless they believe in the grace of God s son
Christ was not a perishable commodity ,he was perfect and was not to die from sin what was all of us ;in dishonor;
show scriptures that this is not so ;please
Pierre
this is what i thing of you now;Lk 11:52 “Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”
you are absolutly not one of God representatives;Isa 22:22 I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.
Isa 33:6 He will be the sure foundation for your times,
a rich store of salvation and wisdom and knowledge;
the fear of the LORD is the key to this treasure.you made much talk but no scriptures only opinions ,mens view ,men of the world,NOT OF GOD
you have no respect for the meek ones,like Irene,and me and others
Ps 37:11 But the meek will inherit the land
and enjoy great peace.
Zep 3:12 But I will leave within you
the meek and humble,
who trust in the name of the LORD.
Mt 5:5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.Pierre
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