Do men ever go to heaven?

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2012,13:48)

Hi t, You must feel very secure if your whole interest is pulling down others.

N

I do not pulling down any one ,what is true most be defended by truth not by opinions,and not for the interest of socializing comfort ,

either we defend the truth of Gods word and not hiding behind to make good relation with false believe,like the Pharisees did and today the system of religion,

what is it you do ??

show me my false believe Nick I do not hide them if there are any ;

[NickHassan]

Hi t,
I do not know what you believe.
I know much of what you do not believe

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2012,15:15)

Hi t, I do not know what you believe. I know much of what you do not believe

N

well this is a start ,if you know what i do not believe ,and I should show me ,but not opinions only scriptures

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
It is not about you.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2012,16:03)

Hi T, It is not about you.

N

I know but it is you who did not understand that the truth of Gods words have to give glory to God because it is his words ,

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ May 03 2012,20:53)

Mike how can a man escape the curse of Adam without the sacrifice of Christ ?can you get around that one

Pierre,

I have already “gotten around that one” by asking you if God is allowed to make exceptions for certain of His servants?  I believe that not only CAN God make exceptions if He chooses to, but that scripture clearly, and without mincing words, says He DID make an exception in the case of Elijah.

Pierre, scripture says that God took Elijah up to heaven.  Tell me, where did God take Elijah up to?  A “higher form of Sheol so he could be closer to God”, like you suggest?  

Or “to heaven”, like the scripture actually says?

I will go with the scripture every time, my friend.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 04 2012,12:02)

Hi KW, It is only known that he was taken up and not his ultimate destination because there are three heavens

It doesn't matter WHICH heaven, Nick. The question of the thread is “Do men EVER go to HEAVEN?”

The scriptural answer is “YES”, because Elijah was taken up to heaven.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Poor Elijah.
The only man in the heaven of God?
All in Christ will be raised to meet him in the air so we all go to heaven?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 04 2012,18:36)

Hi MB, Poor Elijah. The only man in the heaven of God?

He's obviously not a man anymore, Nick.  Men consist of flesh, and flesh cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 04 2012,18:36)

All in Christ will be raised to meet him in the air so we all go to heaven?

Some will dwell in heaven.  Whether all of those who meet Jesus in the air will dwell in heaven, I do not know, because there are meek who will inherit the earth.  But I know that this point has no bearing on the former point we were discussing.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,m
So now you deduce that to be a man you must be flesh?

None enter God's heaven without a heavenly body so you assume he is already dressed?

Did not seem any different to others on the mountain

[mikeboll64]

Luke 9
30 Two men, Moses and Elijah, 31 appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus.

What does “glorious splendor” infer? Do you suppose they were arrayed in “glorious spendor” during their time on earth?

I believe that Elijah was taken up to heaven, and has been dwelling in God's dwelling place ever since. Now Nick, listen very closely to this next part:

I don't really give a rat's ass whether or not you agree with me.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2012,18:19)

Quote (terraricca @ May 03 2012,20:53) Mike how can a man escape the curse of Adam without the sacrifice of Christ ?can you get around that one Pierre, I have already “gotten around that one” by asking you if God is allowed to make exceptions for certain of His servants?  I believe that not only CAN God make exceptions if He chooses to, but that scripture clearly, and without mincing words, says He DID make an exception in the case of Elijah. Pierre, scripture says that God took Elijah up to heaven.  Tell me, where did God take Elijah up to?  A “higher form of Sheol so he could be closer to God”, like you suggest?   Or “to heaven”, like the scripture actually says? I will go with the scripture every time, my friend.

Mike

so you believe that Elijah has been save from Adam sin and that he as gone from his physical flesh to receive a heavenly new body and so stay in Heaven as an heavenly being with his God ,is this correct

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2012,12:51)

Luke 9 30 Two men, Moses and Elijah, 31 appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus. What does “glorious splendor” infer?  Do you suppose they were arrayed in “glorious spendor” during their time on earth? I believe that Elijah was taken up to heaven, and has been dwelling in God's dwelling place ever since.  Now Nick, listen very closely to this next part: I don't really give a rat's ass whether or not you agree with me.

Hi MB,
Interesting choice of words.
Is agreement a requirement for you?
Why do you think Moses was like Elijah and how does their glory relate to where they have been?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2012,18:19)

Quote (terraricca @ May 03 2012,20:53) Mike how can a man escape the curse of Adam without the sacrifice of Christ ?can you get around that one Pierre, I have already “gotten around that one” by asking you if God is allowed to make exceptions for certain of His servants?  I believe that not only CAN God make exceptions if He chooses to, but that scripture clearly, and without mincing words, says He DID make an exception in the case of Elijah. Pierre, scripture says that God took Elijah up to heaven.  Tell me, where did God take Elijah up to?  A “higher form of Sheol so he could be closer to God”, like you suggest?   Or “to heaven”, like the scripture actually says? I will go with the scripture every time, my friend.

Mike

so you believe that Elijah has been save from Adam sin and that he as gone from his physical flesh to receive a heavenly new body and so stay in Heaven as an heavenly being with his God ,is this correct

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ May 04 2012,20:01)

Mike so you believe that Elijah has been save from Adam sin and that he as gone from his physical flesh to receive a heavenly new body and so stay in Heaven as an heavenly being with his God ,is this correct

Yes Pierre, that is exactly how I understand it.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 04 2012,20:06)

Is agreement a requirement for you?

What part of “I don't give a rat's ass” inclines you to think I require agreement from you?

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2012,14:39)

Quote (terraricca @ May 04 2012,20:01) Mike so you believe that Elijah has been save from Adam sin and that he as gone from his physical flesh to receive a heavenly new body and so stay in Heaven as an heavenly being with his God ,is this correct Yes Pierre, that is exactly how I understand it.

Hi MB,
You have taken quite a few steps into the unknown here.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2012,21:39)

Quote (terraricca @ May 04 2012,20:01) Mike so you believe that Elijah has been save from Adam sin and that he as gone from his physical flesh to receive a heavenly new body and so stay in Heaven as an heavenly being with his God ,is this correct Yes Pierre, that is exactly how I understand it.

Mike

If this would be the case,then Paul lied wen he said that Christ is the first resurrected from the dead,

You may argue that Ilijah never died ,but you can not go to heaven without dying in the flesh,because no flesh can go their,

And assuming you are right then God also lied wen he said that the soul that sin is the soul that dies,and all men have sin ,not even one ,and still was in need for Christ sacrifice,the whole world was waiting for this,

Now,you argue the point that God can make exception ,yes he does but not to end up being called a liar,

I do believe that the souls of the righteous are waiting close to God for the time of the first resurrection,and I would not call this the Sheol or grave,because those thing are for the flesh not for the soul,

An exception was made for Christ that his body would not see decay as you have pointed out,and so did not stay in the grave or Sheol ,

I believe. That those man Henoch,Moses,Ilijah were taken away so to speak but died so that their body could Not be found for some reason,and to prevent men having access to it,but they have died the common dead for all men ,in an extraordinary way true,but die.

God can not lie

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ May 04 2012,23:31)

Mike If this would be the case,then Paul lied wen he said that Christ is the first resurrected from the dead,

Not if Elijah never “tasted death” in the first place, like Jesus did.

Quote (terraricca @ May 04 2012,23:31)

You may argue that Ilijah never died ,but you can not go to heaven without dying in the flesh,because no flesh can go their,

Some will be transformed in the twinkling of an eye.  The flesh bodies of those ones don't decay, but are transformed.  Why could this same thing not have happened with Elijah?

Quote (terraricca @ May 04 2012,23:31)

And assuming you are right then God also lied wen he said that the soul that sin is the soul that dies,and all men have sin ,not even one ,and still was in need for Christ sacrifice,the whole world was waiting for this,

Surely if Jesus had authority to forgive sins on earth (BEFORE he died as a sacrifice), then his God had authority to forgive Elijah's sins and take him to heaven.

Quote (terraricca @ May 04 2012,23:31)

I do believe that the souls of the righteous are waiting close to God for the time of the first resurrection,and I would not call this the Sheol or grave,because those thing are for the flesh not for the soul,

Sheol is the resting place of the souls awaiting resurrection – not the flesh.  The flesh decays.

Pierre, if the scripture says that God took Elijah “up to heaven”, then I have no choice but to believe that God took Elijah up to heaven.

It is not for me (or you) to accuse God of lying because He chose to make an exception for a truly exceptional servant of His.

peace,
mike

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2012,11:22)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 04 2012,12:02) Hi KW, It is only known that he was taken up and not his ultimate destination because there are three heavens It doesn't matter WHICH heaven, Nick.  The question of the thread is “Do men EVER go to HEAVEN?”   The scriptural answer is “YES”, because Elijah was taken up to heaven.

Mike ……….Men go to heaven all the time when they get an airplane they fly in heavens, and the astronauts even went to the heavens. Heavens are Ferments are the same according to Gods word, and a ferment is a atmosphere and we have two here on earth one is called the upper atmosphere and the other is the lower atmosphere. No mystery just put GOD words in Genesis together and with SOUND REASONING it enplanes it CLEARLY. IMO

peace and love……………………………………gene

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