Do men ever go to heaven?

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2012,21:49)

Hi T, Yes to die in faith is best.

N

yes in true faith

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2012,09:46)

Hi KW, You ask “When Scripture states Jesus was taken up to heaven you believe it is to God's abode and yet when  Scripture states Elijah was taken to heaven you do not.  Why do you use different standards? “ Dan 8.13 No other men are seen in heaven in Revelation

Nick,

Saints are human beings.

Unlike the case with Jesus at his Transfiguration they  do not name the two.

Twenty four elders are often mentioned in Revelations and at least one speaks with John.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ May 03 2012,22:21)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2012,09:46) Hi KW, You ask “When Scripture states Jesus was taken up to heaven you believe it is to God's abode and yet when  Scripture states Elijah was taken to heaven you do not.  Why do you use different standards? “ Dan 8.13 No other men are seen in heaven in Revelation Nick, Saints are human beings. Unlike the case with Jesus at his Transfiguration they  do not name the two. Twenty four elders are often mentioned in Revelations and at least one speaks with John.

K and N

Christ suppose to be returning from were he came ,what Elijah did not because he was a man from earth .

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ May 03 2012,11:31)

Quote (kerwin @ May 03 2012,22:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2012,09:46) Hi KW, You ask “When Scripture states Jesus was taken up to heaven you believe it is to God's abode and yet when  Scripture states Elijah was taken to heaven you do not.  Why do you use different standards? “ Dan 8.13 No other men are seen in heaven in Revelation Nick, Saints are human beings. Unlike the case with Jesus at his Transfiguration they  do not name the two. Twenty four elders are often mentioned in Revelations and at least one speaks with John. K and N Christ suppose to be returning from were he came ,what Elijah did not because he was a man from earth .

T,

According to Jude's quote of Enoch; Jesus is not coming alone.

In addition Jesus spoke to both Enoch and Mosses before he was transfigured.

Daniel also describes two saints in Dan 8.13.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Dan 8.13 speaks of one who LOOKED LIKE A MAN.
Jesus returns with his brothers.
But were they in heaven?

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ May 03 2012,23:42)

Quote (terraricca @ May 03 2012,11:31) Quote (kerwin @ May 03 2012,22:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2012,09:46) Hi KW, You ask “When Scripture states Jesus was taken up to heaven you believe it is to God's abode and yet when  Scripture states Elijah was taken to heaven you do not.  Why do you use different standards? “ Dan 8.13 No other men are seen in heaven in Revelation Nick, Saints are human beings. Unlike the case with Jesus at his Transfiguration they  do not name the two. Twenty four elders are often mentioned in Revelations and at least one speaks with John. K and N Christ suppose to be returning from were he came ,what Elijah did not because he was a man from earth . T, According to Jude's quote of Enoch; Jesus is not coming alone. In addition Jesus spoke to both Enoch and Mosses before he was transfigured. Daniel also describes two saints in Dan 8.13.

K

Mk 9:4 And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus

Mt 17:3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

Jude 1:14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones
Jude 1:15 to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

Jude 1:12 These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead.
Jude 1:13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

first in my comment I was talking about the return of Christ to his father and place he was before coming to earth so that wen he comes this would be his second coming ,

and your argument about Elijah going to heaven would not stand because he is from the earth just a man,

[GeneBalthrop]

To All…………After Elijah was taken up into the SHY by a whirlwind He wrote a Letter to Jehoram
this all took place after the whirlwind indecent it is in

2 Ch 21:12….>”And there came a writing to Him (Jehoram) from ELIJAH the Prophet, saying Thus saith the LORD God of David” …………………> .

While Elijah was taken up in the Sky He also came down back to earth. There is NONE risen to eternal LIFE BUT JESUS . God word says all that sin shall die that includes all Prophets and people since Adam becasue ALL according to Scripture have sinned and therefore all must die , with only one exception and that was Jesus. And even He died but not for HIS sin But for OUR SINS. Just as scripture say “THESE (ALL) have died and are waiting and have not recieved the promise yet”.

There is none risen to life eternal but Jesus He (IS) the FIRST Given eternal Life from MANKIND> All other are waiting for a resurrection that will “WITNESS” the REDEMPTION of their BODIES> Just as scripture say.

All these other things are just speculations trying to force scriptures to meet false dogmas and corrupt teachings.

peace and love to you all………………….gene

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
So what evidence do you have that the letter was written AFTER he was taken up?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 02 2012,20:12)

Hi MB, Which heaven?

Well, “Sheol” isn't any of the three heavens, right? So apparently Sheol is NOT where Elijah went, right?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
You mean eventually?
He was taken up but his destination was not recorded.

[mikeboll64]

Gene and Pierre,

Many in scripture “died” and were raised back to life before Jesus, right?  So how can Jesus be “the firstborn from the dead”?

I believe the only way is that Jesus was the first to actually descend to Sheol/Hades BEFORE being raised from the dead.  In this way, Jesus was the first that God ripped from the hands of death.

Perhaps God, knowing that those others who had died were to be raised by one of His servants, didn't allow their souls to descend to Sheol in the first place.

Jesus “tasted death for all of us”, right?  That means Jesus totally died and went to Sheol – from where he was raised by his God.  But what if Moses never went to Sheol?  Or Enoch?  Or Elijah?  Or any of those to whom Jesus referred when he said, “some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom”?

Is it possible that “taste death” is a reference to “descend to Hades”?   And if so, is it possible that Jesus is the first one who ever DID descend to Hades before being raised by God – and is therefore “the firstborn from death”?

If these things are possible, then it is equally possible that Enoch, Moses, Elijah, and those to whom Jesus said they will not taste death ceased to exist on earth, but NEVER DESCENDED TO SHEOL. Instead, they were taken immediately from earth to heaven.

This is how I understand it, and I don't know of a scripture my understanding contradicts. Let me know if you know of one.

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2012,18:09)

Hi MB, You mean eventually? He was taken up but his destination was not recorded.

His destination WAS recorded, Nick. It was recorded as “to heaven”.

If you are taken “to France”, wouldn't “France” be your “destination”?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Which heaven?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Jonah died and went to sheol.

All the chosen men before Jesus died in the hope they will be found worthy of the First Resurrection.[heb11]

Jesus is the first fruits of that resurrection

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2012,18:26)

Hi MB, Which heaven?

One of them. Most likely the one where God abides, since it was God who took him up to heaven.

Please don't ask this question again. It has been asked and answered to the best of my knowledge and ability many times already.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2012,18:32)

Hi MB, Jonah died and went to sheol.

Where does scripture tell us that Jonah descended to Sheol?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Is MOST LIKELY good enough for you?

[NickHassan]

Hi Mb,
I will bring up the thread

[mikeboll64]

Why? Because you can't bring up an actual SCRIPTURE that says Jonah descended to Sheol?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 04 2012,18:18)

Gene and Pierre, Many in scripture “died” and were raised back to life before Jesus, right?  So how can Jesus be “the firstborn from the dead”? I believe the only way is that Jesus was the first to actually descend to Sheol/Hades BEFORE being raised from the dead.  In this way, Jesus was the first that God ripped from the hands of death. Perhaps God, knowing that those others who had died were to be raised by one of His servants, didn't allow their souls to descend to Sheol in the first place. Jesus “tasted death for all of us”, right?  That means Jesus totally died and went to Sheol – from where he was raised by his God.  But what if Moses never went to Sheol?  Or Enoch?  Or Elijah?  Or any of those to whom Jesus referred when he said, “some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom”? Is it possible that “taste death” is a reference to “descend to Hades”?   And if so, is it possible that Jesus is the first one who ever DID descend to Hades before being raised by God – and is therefore “the firstborn from death”? If these things are possible, then it is equally possible that Enoch, Moses, Elijah, and those to whom Jesus said they will not taste death ceased to exist on earth, but NEVER DESCENDED TO SHEOL.  Instead, they were taken immediately from earth to heaven. This is how I understand it, and I don't know of a scripture my understanding contradicts.  Let me know if you know of one. peace, mike

Mike

the way I understand it is this ;

first the soul that sins must die;this is the rule ;for all men ,

all people that were resurrected before Christ and by Christ and his apostles die any way but later and older,the resurrection of them did not give them more than time because it did not remove the curse of Adam sin,

but this is the dead of the flesh that we talking about ,NOT THE SOUL,

only God can destroy the souls ,so there is no real dead until the judgement and the resurrection of all,

now their is a place for all souls to go but not all go in the same place ,some have done good and some have done evil ,

some are saints and so are closer to God than others ,but all souls are in a waiting lock up,they do not have received their new body ,all comes in their own time ,

I do not know along it takes for the soul to leave the body and go so it can not be called back into his body(before the end resurrection),we know from Lazarus resurrection that he was dead four days ,

but in Christ case ,this is special ,he told his disciples that he will be back ,so resurrected ,but it is also in the hands of God who does and do not ,

so what is declare dead to men is that the person does no longer breaths ,and no heart bead,then we go six feet under ground for most ,no more action or thoughts or whatever ,all you had is gone to others,

so Christ his the first to be resurrected from the dead to eternal live, all others have not yet done so,or if they did it would be the 144k and his personally called apostles,

what is the taste of dead ,would this not be ;that your soul is placed far from God s place and not see any glory,of him ??

while all righteous and faithful men souls are close to God and so see what they have believed in ?? I think so,
in this case they do not taste dead .their flesh is of no importance were it goes or what is done to it ,

so I kind of agree with you in that sense ,

[Author]

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