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Quote Hi david,
“the road is narrow and few will choose it”
Of the 10 saved bridesmaids only 5 were awake when the master returns.
Yes I believe few will be in the first resurrection or raptured.“God knows those who are His”
Do men?
–Nick, some other thread.
Nick, I have a question. If it is only a “little flock” that make up the kingdom, and if as you say “only few will be in the first resurrection”….
if this is true, as we agree it is, and if it's also true that:
“EVERYONE” who calls on the name of the lord will be saved and “EVERYONE, then, that confesses union with me before men, I will also confess union with him before my Father who is in the heavens” and “EVERYONE that has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive many times more and will inherit everlasting life.” etc, etc…What conclusion can we draw from this? Does this not indicate two groups?–One little flock who receive the kingdom (a government) and another who benefits from that govenrment. Of course, only a small little number need be in the governement, but “everyone” who follows Jesus has the opportunity to have everlasting life.
What do you make of this?
Hi david,
We are not allowed to add our implications to scripture.Look at Jl 2 in context.
it occurs “AFTER THIS”[v28]
So it does not relate to now.
Peter used it as a type or an illustration of the release of the Spirit of God but the time of Jl 2 is not yet.
You are either a sheep or a goat.
Quote (david @ Aug. 30 2009,08:25) Quote Hi david,
“the road is narrow and few will choose it”
Of the 10 saved bridesmaids only 5 were awake when the master returns.
Yes I believe few will be in the first resurrection or raptured.“God knows those who are His”
Do men?
–Nick, some other thread.
Nick, I have a question. If it is only a “little flock” that make up the kingdom, and if as you say “only few will be in the first resurrection”….
if this is true, as we agree it is, and if it's also true that:
“EVERYONE” who calls on the name of the lord will be saved and “EVERYONE, then, that confesses union with me before men, I will also confess union with him before my Father who is in the heavens” and “EVERYONE that has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive many times more and will inherit everlasting life.” etc, etc…What conclusion can we draw from this? Does this not indicate two groups?–One little flock who receive the kingdom (a government) and another who benefits from that govenrment. Of course, only a small little number need be in the governement, but “everyone” who follows Jesus has the opportunity to have everlasting life.
What do you make of this?
david In Ephesians 2:8 it says this” For by grace you have been saved through Faith and that not of yourselves, it is a free gift from God.
verse 9 not of work, lest anyone should boast.
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 30 2009,08:47) Hi david,
We are not allowed to add our implications to scripture.Look at Jl 2 in context.
it occurs “AFTER THIS”[v28]
So it does not relate to now.
Peter used it as a type or an illustration of the release of the Spirit of God but the time of Jl 2 is not yet.
You are either a sheep or a goat.
Did Jesus come to save sheep and goats? seems like allot of bull to me.Georg
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 30 2009,08:47) Hi david,
We are not allowed to add our implications to scripture.Look at Jl 2 in context.
it occurs “AFTER THIS”[v28]
So it does not relate to now.
Peter used it as a type or an illustration of the release of the Spirit of God but the time of Jl 2 is not yet.
You are either a sheep or a goat.
What does ANY of this have to do with my post? Did you read my post?Quote (david @ Aug. 30 2009,08:25) Quote Hi david,
“the road is narrow and few will choose it”
Of the 10 saved bridesmaids only 5 were awake when the master returns.
Yes I believe few will be in the first resurrection or raptured.“God knows those who are His”
Do men?
–Nick, some other thread.
Nick, I have a question. If it is only a “little flock” that make up the kingdom, and if as you say “only few will be in the first resurrection”….
if this is true, as we agree it is, and if it's also true that:
“EVERYONE” who calls on the name of the lord will be saved and “EVERYONE, then, that confesses union with me before men, I will also confess union with him before my Father who is in the heavens” and “EVERYONE that has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive many times more and will inherit everlasting life.” etc, etc…What conclusion can we draw from this? Does this not indicate two groups?–One little flock who receive the kingdom (a government) and another who benefits from that govenrment. Of course, only a small little number need be in the governement, but “everyone” who follows Jesus has the opportunity to have everlasting life.
What do you make of this?
davidIf you permit me to come in on this topic.
You are right, the number of those that will rule with Jesus, in his spiritual kingdom, is small in comparison to those they will rule over here on earth.
But even today, with bibles readily available, not everyone is calling on the name Jesus, because they don't understand what that means; not to mention all those that never heard his name.
Jesus died for them too; so when will they have a chance to call on his name? in the millennium, after they are resurrected. That is when the teaching of all masses will take place, that is what the millennium is for. That is when obeying the gospel will get you the gift of God, eternal life.Georg
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 05 2009,16:26) What did Jesus do after the parable? He went and raised Lazerus!
Now that I think about it, after Lazerus had been dead several days, and Jesus brought him back to life again, why no account from Lazerus about where he had been, if he would have been in the Greek hell then he would have expressed his gratitude, and if he would have been in heaven would he not be a little angry being plucked out of God's presense? Or maybe he was just dead and in the tomb.
Good point Constitutionalist.But that took place before Jesus died for our sins and was raised.
Look what happened after that.
Matthew 27:52-53
52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.
53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.And in the New Testament it is written:
2 Corinthians 5:8 (NIV)
We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.Is Paul saying I would prefer to be dead and not thinking?
I think that many do not understand that there are significant differences in the Old and New Testaments. Jesus death accomplished certain things and things are different as a result.
So now we come to 1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.It does say that the dead in Christ will rise first. So if it was all at the same time, why would the dead rise first?
Hi MB,
It is a popular myth that good folk go to heaven when they die.
If you believe this on what biblical evidence?Nick,
Are we not already having this discussion in a different thread? Shall we discuss it twice? Or would you like to move the discussion to this thread?
Thanks Nick,
But I have scripture. Also, I barely have the time to keep up with current correspondence.
hi
as a start ;Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Jn 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Jn 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Jn 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”Jn 4:13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again,
Jn 4:14 but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”conditional to ;
Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”Jn 5:24 “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned;
he has crossed over from death to life.Jn 6:27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
Jn 6:47 I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.
Jn 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
Jn 7:17 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
NOW IF GOD IS THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN KILL OUR SOUL ,WEN DOES HE DO IT ? IS THIS NOT DONE AT THE SECOND RESURRECTION ?YES THIS IS THE SECOND DEAD,BUT IT ALSO SAID IN REVELATION THAT THOSE FROM THE FIRST RESURRECTION WILL NOT BE INFLUENCED BY WHAT HAPPEN DURING THE SECOND RESURRECTION, SO IF WE HAVE DIE ONES FOR OUR SINS IN CHRIST AND SO GAIN EVERLASTING LIVE
WERE ARE WE WAITING IT OUT UNTIL THE FIRST RESURRECTION? REV 6:9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
REV 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years,MK 12:26 “But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, and the God of Jacob’?
NOW UNDERSTAND THIS;
Lk 16:19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.
Lk 16:20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores (DID NOT LIVE IN THE WORLD BUT IN THE SPIRIT )
Lk 16:21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.(PEOPLE HAVE HELP TRUE CHRISTIANS THIS IS WHAT CHRIST SAYS IF YOU DO IT TO THE LEAST OF MY BROTHERS IT IS TO ME YOU DID IT)
Lk 16:22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side(RESTING PLACE FOR THE SOUL OF THE RIGHTEOUS ONES). The rich man also died and was buried.
Lk 16:23 In hell,(THE PLACE WERE NON BELIEVERS WAIT THERE JUDGEMENT SECOND RESURRECTION) where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
Lk 16:24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
Lk 16:25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things(AND LIVED YOUR LIVE US YOU SEE FIT), while Lazarus received bad things(BECAUSE OF THE TRUTH AND FAITH HE HAD AND PRACTICE), but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
Lk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
Lk 16:27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house,
Lk 16:28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
Lk 16:29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets (AND THE GOSPEL ); let them listen to them.’
Lk 16:30 “ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
Lk 16:31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets (AND THE MESSAGE OF THE APOSTLES), they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”I HOPE THIS WILL HELP
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 07 2012,12:38) hi as a start ;Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Jn 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Jn 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Jn 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”Jn 4:13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again,
Jn 4:14 but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”conditional to ;
Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”Jn 5:24 “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned;
he has crossed over from death to life.Jn 6:27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
Jn 6:47 I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.
Jn 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
Jn 7:17 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.
Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
NOW IF GOD IS THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN KILL OUR SOUL ,WEN DOES HE DO IT ? IS THIS NOT DONE AT THE SECOND RESURRECTION ?YES THIS IS THE SECOND DEAD,BUT IT ALSO SAID IN REVELATION THAT THOSE FROM THE FIRST RESURRECTION WILL NOT BE INFLUENCED BY WHAT HAPPEN DURING THE SECOND RESURRECTION, SO IF WE HAVE DIE ONES FOR OUR SINS IN CHRIST AND SO GAIN EVERLASTING LIVE
WERE ARE WE WAITING IT OUT UNTIL THE FIRST RESURRECTION? REV 6:9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
REV 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years,MK 12:26 “But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, and the God of Jacob’?
NOW UNDERSTAND THIS;
Lk 16:19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.
Lk 16:20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores (DID NOT LIVE IN THE WORLD BUT IN THE SPIRIT )
Lk 16:21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.(PEOPLE HAVE HELP TRUE CHRISTIANS THIS IS WHAT CHRIST SAYS IF YOU DO IT TO THE LEAST OF MY BROTHERS IT IS TO ME YOU DID IT)
Lk 16:22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side(RESTING PLACE FOR THE SOUL OF THE RIGHTEOUS ONES). The rich man also died and was buried.
Lk 16:23 In hell,(THE PLACE WERE NON BELIEVERS WAIT THERE JUDGEMENT SECOND RESURRECTION) where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
Lk 16:24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
Lk 16:25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things(AND LIVED YOUR LIVE US YOU SEE FIT), while Lazarus received bad things(BECAUSE OF THE TRUTH AND FAITH HE HAD AND PRACTICE), but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
Lk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
Lk 16:27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house,
Lk 16:28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
Lk 16:29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets (AND THE GOSPEL ); let them listen to them.’
Lk 16:30 “ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
Lk 16:31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets (AND THE MESSAGE OF THE APOSTLES), they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”I HOPE THIS WILL HELP
Pierre
Pierrethe question is; “do men ever go to heaven?”
do you think you answered that with your scriptures?
Georg
That is right Nick. No one could count that number if I remember rightly.
I could count up to 144,000, even though I have never done it before.
There is obviously another group besides the 144,000. A much bigger group.T8………..The is true the 144 thousand are decedents of the 12 tribes of Israel, but there is a UN-numerable multitude also their on the sea of Glass as Nick said.
peace and love………………………………………………gene
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 13 2012,04:26) That is right Nick. No one could count that number if I remember rightly.
I could count up to 144,000, even though I have never done it before.
There is obviously another group besides the 144,000. A much bigger group.
t8is the great group was called to be redeemed from the earth
or they are standing before the throne of God that would be the earth no ? because the earth is God foot stool ?right .
Rev 14:12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
Rev 14:13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”Rev 15:2 And I saw what looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and his image and over the number of his name. They held harps given them by God
Rev 15:3 and sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb:
“Great and marvelous are your deeds,
Lord God Almighty.
Just and true are your ways,
King of the ages.
Rev 15:4 Who will not fear you, O Lord,
and bring glory to your name?
For you alone are holy.
All nations will come
and worship before you,
for your righteous acts have been revealed.”LOOK IT SAYS 'beside the sea of glass;verse 2
REV 4:6 and before the throne there was something like a sea of glass, like crystal; and in the center and around the throne, four living creatures full of eyes in front and behind
REV 5:13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying,
“To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.”REV 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
Rev 7:14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore,
“they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.
Rev 7:16 Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat upon them,
nor any scorching heat.THEY (CROWED) ARE SERVING IN THE TEMPLE NOT PART OF THE TEMPLE;
the following verse does not happen in heaven but on earth;
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd;
he will lead them to springs of living water.
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”there is more later
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