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Hi Nick:
You say:
Quote faith produces works.
just as spirit gives life.
But spirit is not works.If spirit is not works then what did Jesus mean? When he said:
Quote John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth(gives life); the flesh * * profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit(how are the words that he speaks to us spirit), and they are life(How are they life to us?).Hi Nick:
(I appologize for posting this twice)
You say:Quote faith produces works.
just as spirit gives life.
But spirit is not works.If spirit is not works then what did Jesus mean? When he said:
Quote John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth(gives life); the flesh * * profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit(how are the words that he speaks to us spirit), and they are life(How are they life to us?).Hi 94,
The Words of God spoken by Jesus are of the Spirit of God.
Feeding on them gives us grace and life.
Man cannot live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2008,15:23) Hi 94,
The Words of God spoken by Jesus are of the Spirit of God.
Feeding on them gives us grace and life.
Man cannot live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.
Hi Nick:I totally agree. The life of the flesh is in the blood. Without the blood the flesh dies, and without oxygen, food and water the flesh would die, but it is the Word of God that gives life to our soul.
As you have quoted Jesus: “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God”. But man has a mortal body, and unless we are alive when Jesus comes for the church, we will go by the grave, but if we are born again Christians striving to obey the Word of God our soul will live forever.
Quote
Hi David, I am glad that you agree, since this is what God has said, and if what I have given you through the scriptures that I have quoted, are coming from God, should you not also agree to what is being said to you by God through those scriptures.You seem to want to hold on to doctrines that a demonination has taught you rather than to be open minded to the possibility that what you have beeen taught may be in error.
94, you'll notice I use as many scriptures as you do. Scripture does not allow me to believe Jesus is presently a man.
You believe Jesus is a man, right now, in heaven.
But I find this impossible, for as you said “Jesus, was made a life giving spirit.”
If Jesus is a man, then he may not see God, for “no man may see God and yet live.”–Exodus, I think.
And yet, he is at God's right hand. But he can't see him? And that scripture isn't talking about seeing (understanding) the character of God. Please see the context of that scripture.Hi david,
Jesus is a man.
He is the Son of God who came down from heaven and who had seen God.Jn6
John 6:46
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.He now has a heavenly body but does that mean he is no longer a man?
JOHN 21:4-7
“However, just as it was getting to be morning, Jesus stood on the beach, but the disciples did not, of course, discern that it was Jesus. Then Jesus said to them: “Young children, YOU do not have anything to eat, do YOU?” They answered “No!” to him. He said to them: “Cast the net on the right side of the boat and YOU will find [some].” Then they cast it, but they were no longer able to draw it in because of the multitude of the fishes. Therefore that disciple whom Jesus used to love said to Peter: “It is the Lord!” Hence Simon Peter, upon hearing that it was the Lord, girded about himself his top garment, for he was naked, and plunged into the sea.”WHY COULD HIS IMMEDIATE ASSOCIATES NOT RECOGNIZE HIM?
WHY DID HE HAVE TO PERFORM A MIRACLE FOR THEM TO RECOGNIZE HIM?JOHN 20:14-15
“After saying these things, she turned back and viewed Jesus standing, but she did not discern it was Jesus. Jesus said to her: “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you looking for?” She, imagining it was the gardener, said to him: “Sir, if you have carried him off, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.””Following his resurrection, Jesus did not always appear in the same body of flesh (perhaps to reinforce in their minds the fact that he was then a spirit), and so he was not immediately recognized even by his close associates.
On one occasion, for the benefit of Thomas, Jesus appeared with the physical evidence of nail prints in his hands and a spear wound in his side. But HOW WAS IT POSSIBLE ON THAT OCCASION FOR HIM TO SUDDENLY APPEAR IN THEIR MIDST EVEN THOUGH THE DOORS WERE LOCKED? (John 20:24-29)
ANYONE?
Jesus evidently materialized bodies on these occasions, as angels had done in the past when appearing to humans.
Luke 24:36-39: “While they [the disciples] were speaking of these things he himself stood in their midst and said to them: ‘May you have peace.’ But because they were terrified, and had become frightened, they were imagining they beheld a spirit. So he said to them: ‘Why are you troubled, and why is it doubts come up in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have.’”
Humans cannot see spirits, so the disciples evidently thought they were seeing an apparition or a vision that had appeared in this locked room. (Compare Mark 6:49, 50.) Jesus assured them that he was no apparition; they could see his body of flesh and could touch him, feeling the bones; he also ate in their presence. Similarly, in the past, angels had materialized in order to be seen by men; they had eaten, and some had even married and fathered children. (Gen. 6:4; 19:1-3) Following his resurrection, Jesus did not always appear in the same body of flesh (perhaps to reinforce in their minds the fact that he was then a spirit), and so he was not immediately recognized even by his close associates. (John 20:14, 15; 21:4-7) However, by his repeatedly appearing to them in materialized bodies and then saying and doing things that they would identify with the Jesus they knew, he strengthened their faith in the fact that he truly had been resurrected from the dead.Several times he manifested himself and WAS RECOGNIZED, NOT BY HIS APPEARANCE, BUT BY HIS WORDS AND ACTIONS. (Lu 24:15, 16, 30, 31, 36-45; Mt 28:16-18)
SO WHAT DOES THAT TELL US?
WHY WOULD THEY HAVE TO ASK: ‘WHO ARE YOU?’ OR NEED THE COURAGE TO ASK THIS IF HE HAD HIS FLESHLY BODY THAT WAS RECOGNIZABLE? THERE WOULD BE NO REASON TO ASK: WHO ARE YOU?
JOHN 21:4-7,12
“However, just as it was getting to be morning, Jesus stood on the beach, but the disciples did not, of course, discern that it was Jesus. Then Jesus said to them: “Young children, YOU do not have anything to eat, do YOU?” They answered “No!” to him. He said to them: “Cast the net on the right side of the boat and YOU will find [some].” Then they cast it, but they were no longer able to draw it in because of the multitude of the fishes. Therefore that disciple whom Jesus used to love said to Peter: “It is the Lord!” Hence Simon Peter, upon hearing that it was the Lord, girded about himself his top garment, for he was naked, and plunged into the sea. . . .Jesus said to them: “Come, take YOUR breakfast.” Not one of the disciples had the courage to inquire of him: “WHO ARE YOU?” because they knew it was the Lord.”WHY OH WHY, WOULD THEY EVER HAVE TO ASK: WHO ARE YOU? Of course, because of HIS ACTIONS, they knew…they knew who it was. But still, none had the courage to ask who he was…..
HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THIS?
Here's how I explain it. Here's how I explain him appearing in a room with locked doors. As a spirit, he materialzed different bodies to re-inforce that he was now a spirit, that he was resurrected a spirit. That he was not a man.
Interestingly, although the physical body was not left by God in the tomb (evidently to strengthen the conviction of the disciples that Jesus had actually been raised), the linen cloths in which it had been wrapped were left there; YET, THE RESURRECTED JESUS ALWAYS APPEARED FULLY CLOTHED.—John 20:6, 7.
Jesus, having been resurrected as a spirit (1Pe 3:18), could materialize a body for the occasion as the angels did in past times, when they appeared as messengers. (Ge 18:2; 19:1, 12; Jos 5:13, 14; Jg 13:3, 6; Heb 13:2)
So, if you don't explain it this way, how would you explain those very very odd things?
david.
Quote Jesus is a man. Doctor, what is a man? What does the Bible indicate a man is? What do all the dictionaries? Maybe all the dictionaries of the world are wrong. A man is flesh. Jesus is not flesh, but a mighty spirit being, given all authority and power.
Hi david,
You ask
“WHY COULD HIS IMMEDIATE ASSOCIATES NOT RECOGNIZE HIM?
WHY DID HE HAVE TO PERFORM A MIRACLE FOR THEM TO RECOGNIZE HIM?”I do not know as scripture does not say.
Do you have some speculations about it?Hi david,
You say
“On one occasion, for the benefit of Thomas, Jesus appeared with the physical evidence of nail prints in his hands and a spear wound in his side. But HOW WAS IT POSSIBLE ON THAT OCCASION FOR HIM TO SUDDENLY APPEAR IN THEIR MIDST EVEN THOUGH THE DOORS WERE LOCKED? (John 20:24-29)”I do not know as scripture does not say.
What are your ideas?Hi david,
You say
'Several times he manifested himself and WAS RECOGNIZED, NOT BY HIS APPEARANCE, BUT BY HIS WORDS AND ACTIONS. (Lu 24:15, 16, 30, 31, 36-45; Mt 28:16-18)SO WHAT DOES THAT TELL US?”
Good question but no answers from God' word.
Have you some theories?Quote (david @ Feb. 15 2008,12:00) Quote Jesus is a man. Doctor, what is a man? What does the Bible indicate a man is? What do all the dictionaries? Maybe all the dictionaries of the world are wrong. A man is flesh. Jesus is not flesh, but a mighty spirit being, given all authority and power.
Hi david,
1Thess 5
23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Gen2
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 3
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.So Scripture shows man in several ways.
So by your definition of man
men never go to heaven?We are told that Jesus “became flesh.” (John 1:14)
We're also told that:
“he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death,”
Phil 2:5-8I do not believe Jesus is still in the “likeness of men.”
1 PETER 3:18
“ he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.”1 TIM 3:16
“‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, “Hi david,
He still looks like a son of man.
Dan 7
13″I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.Quote So by your definition of man
men never go to heaven?They go to heaven, but they are “changed” and no longer “flesh.”
I'll tell you a secret nick, a mystery, according to some Bibles:
1 CORINTHIANS 15:51-52
“Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”Flesh is corruptible. flesh and blood cannot inherit the heavenly kingdom. That is why those who are to rule as kings and priests in this heavenly kingdom must undergo a change, be born again, in a different sort of way. They must put on incorruption.
Quote Good question but no answers from God' word.
Have you some theories?Wrong nick, we're told he died in the flesh and was raised a spirit. No mysteries.
But they remain mysteries to you, I suppose. Very very odd mysteries.
Nick,
I ask again, a most bizarre question to you apparently:WHY WOULD THEY HAVE TO ASK: ‘WHO ARE YOU?’ OR NEED THE COURAGE TO ASK THIS IF HE HAD HIS FLESHLY BODY THAT WAS RECOGNIZABLE?
Can “flesh” pass through locked doors, in your opinion? Of course, to a spirit, a locked door is nothing. He suddenly appeared in their midst, even though the door was locked. Right?
Again:
WHY COULD HIS IMMEDIATE ASSOCIATES NOT RECOGNIZE HIM?
WHY DID HE HAVE TO PERFORM A MIRACLE FOR THEM TO RECOGNIZE HIM?This is no mystery.
Jesus, having been resurrected as a spirit (1Pe 3:18), could materialize a body for the occasion as the angels did in past times, when they appeared as messengers. (Ge 18:2; 19:1, 12; Jos 5:13, 14; Jg 13:3, 6; Heb 13:2)Quote (david @ Feb. 15 2008,12:14) Quote So by your definition of man
men never go to heaven?They go to heaven, but they are “changed” and no longer “flesh.”
I'll tell you a secret nick, a mystery, according to some Bibles:
1 CORINTHIANS 15:51-52
“Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”Flesh is corruptible. flesh and blood cannot inherit the heavenly kingdom. That is why those who are to rule as kings and priests in this heavenly kingdom must undergo a change, be born again, in a different sort of way. They must put on incorruption.
Hi david,
True.
Flesh cannot, souls can.
Sons of the resurrection are like unto angels.Hi david,
You say
“Wrong nick, we're told he died in the flesh and was raised a spirit. No mysteries.”
then you quote
1 PETER 3:18
“ he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.”What is the connection?
He was resurrected david and over 500 are witnesses to the fact that the man who died and whose body was not allowed to rot[acts2] walked the earth as a man again.
Do you not believe in the resurrection of Jesus?
Quote (david @ Feb. 15 2008,12:21) Nick,
I ask again, a most bizarre question to you apparently:WHY WOULD THEY HAVE TO ASK: ‘WHO ARE YOU?’ OR NEED THE COURAGE TO ASK THIS IF HE HAD HIS FLESHLY BODY THAT WAS RECOGNIZABLE?
Can “flesh” pass through locked doors, in your opinion? Of course, to a spirit, a locked door is nothing. He suddenly appeared in their midst, even though the door was locked. Right?
Again:
WHY COULD HIS IMMEDIATE ASSOCIATES NOT RECOGNIZE HIM?
WHY DID HE HAVE TO PERFORM A MIRACLE FOR THEM TO RECOGNIZE HIM?This is no mystery.
Jesus, having been resurrected as a spirit (1Pe 3:18), could materialize a body for the occasion as the angels did in past times, when they appeared as messengers. (Ge 18:2; 19:1, 12; Jos 5:13, 14; Jg 13:3, 6; Heb 13:2)
Hi david,
No doubt Christ had new abilities after his resurrection but you should not teach assumptions that he was no longer human.
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