Do men ever go to heaven?

Participant

Quote (david @ Feb. 11 2008,09:26)

2 CHRONICLES 6:18
““But will God truly dwell with mankind upon the earth? Look! Heaven, yes, the heaven of the heavens themselves, cannot contain you; how much less, then, this house that I have built?”

Hi david,
Using a better translation[kjv]
2Chr 6
7Now it was in the heart of David my father to build an house for the name of the LORD God of Israel.

8But the LORD said to David my father, Forasmuch as it was in thine heart to build an house for my name, thou didst well in that it was in thine heart:

9Notwithstanding thou shalt not build the house; but thy son which shall come forth out of thy loins, he shall build the house for my name.

10The LORD therefore hath performed his word that he hath spoken: for I am risen up in the room of David my father, and am set on the throne of Israel, as the LORD promised, and have built the house for the name of the LORD God of Israel.

God has DWELLED among men before.
Exodus 25:8
And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
Exodus 29:45
And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God.
Exodus 29:46
And they shall know that I am the LORD their God, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them: I am the LORD their God.
Numbers 5:3
Both male and female shall ye put out, without the camp shall ye put them; that they defile not their camps, in the midst whereof I dwell.
Numbers 35:34
Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.

February 10, 2008 at 10:39 pm#81114

Participant

Quote (david @ Feb. 11 2008,09:26)

Hi David:

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Rev 21:3
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

What would you say is the tabernacle of God?

February 10, 2008 at 10:40 pm#81115

Participant

Quote (david @ Feb. 11 2008,09:24)

so, according to the BIBLE:

“Jehovah himself has firmly established his throne in the very heavens.”
Heaven is his “established place of dwelling.”
–THE BIBLE

Nick, I'm wondering what your answer to this biblical question would be:
“‘The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What sort of house will YOU build for me? Jehovah says. Or what is the place for my resting?”

Jehovah the Almighty is asking you Nick: What sort of house will you build for him? Where will he lay his head? This is foolishness of course.

The Bible says that “the heavens and the heaven of the heavens cannot contain him,” (2 chron 2:6) but you believe he will live on earth?

Hi david,
So what is your point?
God is in heaven. Yep.
Jesus is in heaven? Yep

Jesus will return as he has promised.

February 10, 2008 at 10:49 pm#81117

Participant

Quote

Hi david,
Using a better translation[kjv]
2Chr 6
7Now it was in the heart of David my father to build an house for the name of the LORD God of Israel.

8But the LORD said to David my father, Forasmuch as it was in thine heart to build an house for my name, thou didst well in that it was in thine heart:

9Notwithstanding thou shalt not build the house; but thy son which shall come forth out of thy loins, he shall build the house for my name.

Somehow you forgot verse 18. I think you had thought I quoted verse 8.

“But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built!”–KJV

And if you mean “accurate” then it is by no means a “better translation.”

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BINGO!

Thankyou for finally coming to the right conclusion on your own.

Yes, God will dwell with mankind in much the way he did back then.

February 10, 2008 at 10:53 pm#81118

Participant

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Hi david,
So what is your point?
God is in heaven. Yep.

No Nick, that is not what it says. It doesn't say God is in heaven. It says:

“Jehovah himself has firmly established his throne in the very heavens.”
Heaven is his “established place of dwelling.”
–THE BIBLE

And somehow, you forgot to answer my question, which you are so famous for doing, when it doesn't suit your beliefs.

I guess I'll re-ask it and your silence will once again confirm your inability to see:
Nick, I'm wondering what your answer to this biblical question would be:
“‘The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What sort of house will YOU build for me? Jehovah says. Or what is the place for my resting?”

Jehovah the Almighty is asking you Nick: What sort of house will you build for him? Where will he lay his head? This is foolishness of course.

February 10, 2008 at 10:58 pm#81120

Participant

Quote

What would you say is the tabernacle of God?

94, I do not doubt that God will “be with” his people or 'dwell' with them.

(Rev 21:2,3)

But I think Nick is of the impression that God will be walking around and you'll see him there, sitting on a throne on earth. The earth is his footstool. The heavens are his throne. He is not a man, that he should even need such things. Any such symbolisms are used to describe to us what we cannot understand.

February 10, 2008 at 11:00 pm#81121

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 11 2008,09:25)

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 11 2008,09:16)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 11 2008,09:00)

Hi 94,
Some are saved through the tribulation.
God uses that suffering as a crucible to rescue more of His people.
Revelation 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Hi Nick:

I agree that all of us go through tribulation and some will go through great tribulation, but I don't believe that anyone on earth will survive throughout the great tribulation.

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Matt. 24:37
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:38
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
24:39
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Did anyone except those who were in Noah's ark survive the flood?

Hi 94,
Does that scripture you quote rather more show the similar ignorance and complacency that those other living in the era with Noah demonstrated, as will also be the case when the time of the end suddenly comes?

Hi Nick:

It definitely shows their complacency.

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2 Thes 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

They did not believe the gospel, and therefore, they will worship the Anti-Christ.

February 10, 2008 at 11:03 pm#81122

Participant

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I just find it so fascinating that you said this nick. Yes, God has dwelled among men. And he will do so again. Thankyou for pointing that out.

February 10, 2008 at 11:09 pm#81123

Participant

Maybe I should explain what I believe, so Nick can start picking on me, instead of the other way around. It will bring things back to a more normal state.

During the Millennial Reign, Jehovah will “reside” among mankind in a temporary arrangement, he being represented by his royal Son, Jesus Christ.
At the end of the Thousand Year Reign, however, when Jesus hands the Kingdom over to his Father, no royal representative or intercessor will be needed for mankind will have been brought back to a state of perfection (as in the same state adam and eve enjoyed before sinning).
Jehovah will then reside spiritually with “his peoples” in a permanent and direct way. But he will still be in his established place of dwelling, the heavens.

February 10, 2008 at 11:20 pm#81124

Participant

Quote (david @ Feb. 11 2008,09:58)

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What would you say is the tabernacle of God?

94, I do not doubt that God will “be with” his people or 'dwell' with them.

(Rev 21:2,3)

Hi David:

I'm not sure what Nick believes relative to this. Of course, God is not a man and is invisible. No one has seen him nor will ever see him as the word “invisible” means exactly that.

But Jesus is a man, and he is the express image of God's person. When he was raised from the dead, the scripture states:

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Luke 24:36
And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
24:37
But they were terrified and affrighted *, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
24:38
And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled ? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
24:40
And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

And,

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Ac 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

February 10, 2008 at 11:56 pm#81125

Participant

Quote (david @ Feb. 11 2008,09:53)

Quote

Hi david,
So what is your point?
God is in heaven. Yep.

No Nick, that is not what it says. It doesn't say God is in heaven. It says:

“Jehovah himself has firmly established his throne in the very heavens.”
Heaven is his “established place of dwelling.”
–THE BIBLE

And somehow, you forgot to answer my question, which you are so famous for doing, when it doesn't suit your beliefs.

Jehovah the Almighty is asking you Nick: What sort of house will you build for him? Where will he lay his head? This is foolishness of course.

Hi david,
You have already shown the answer to this question.
God has dwelled and will dwell on earth with His people
as His Spirit.
But God will ever be on HisThrone in heaven.

February 11, 2008 at 12:26 am#81127

Participant

Quote

But Jesus is a man

He was a man, he “became flesh” when he came to the earth. That was absolutely necessary to carry out his entire purpose for coming to the earth–to provide a ransom sacrifice for us.
In luke 24 they were supposing he was a spirit because they saw him die, and there he was. I believe he was ressurrected a spirit, but took on fleshly form as angels for example have done in the past to convince them that he truly was resurrected. I mean, he wasn't walking around with holes in his wrists before when he spoke with those two on the road. And the fact that people kept not recognizing him. But when he went BACK TO HEAVEN, his fleshly body isn't up there in heaven somewhere. He is a spirit again. Not a man.

February 11, 2008 at 12:37 am#81128

Participant

Hi david,
Took on fleshly form and then conned Thomas that it was his original form??
He surely had holes in his wrists then.
He is now in his heavenly body as 1Cor 15 shows, and so will his disciples be.

February 11, 2008 at 12:51 am#81130

Participant

Hi David:

What about the following scripture?

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1 Tim 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Also, if he is a spirit, then he is invisible, is that what you are saying?

What about the following scripture?

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Re 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Are we also going to be spirit beings without a body?

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1Jo 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

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15:42
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
15:43
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Again, what do you say is the tabernacle of God here?

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2Co 5:1
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

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Re 21:3
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

February 11, 2008 at 1:50 am#81133

Participant

Quote (david @ Feb. 11 2008,11:26)

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But Jesus is a man

Hi david,
It is fine to have opinions but you must prove them from scripture to give them any lasting validity.

February 11, 2008 at 7:29 am#81162

seek and you will find

Participant

Nick John 17:5 And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself , with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
I believe He was a Spirit then and is a Spirit now.

Peace and Love Mrs.

February 11, 2008 at 6:00 pm#81171

Participant

Hi Mrs,
So to have glory a being must be a spirit?
He has a spiritual body just as will we do and will be like to the angels.

February 12, 2008 at 10:37 pm#81275

Mr. Steve

Participant

Paul said we will be given a spiritual body. I Cor. 15

Jesus referred to the Father many times and said, which is in heaven.

February 13, 2008 at 12:19 am#81281