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Proclaimer…..You simply do not understand what Jesus meant by saying he was that bread sent from heaven. Let me simplify it for you.
JESUS said , not me!, John 6:63……”it is the spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that i speak unto , they are spirit, and they are life”
Was Jesus prexisting in heaven before his apearance on this earth, spiritual speaking he did , in the plan and will of God, but you people take it as he was alive in heaven asca sentinal being of some kind, but scripture nor Jesus says that he actually was alive in heaven before he was born on this earth, the only way you can get that is to force our text to make it say that.
Jesus is that bread sent from heaven , which we must eat (take to ourselves) his flesh and drink (take to ourselves) his blood shed for our sins, in order to have eternal life. That was Jesus’ point , it had nothing to do with him decending as a preexisting “being” of somekind, to this earth from another existence, that had nothing to do with what Jesus was addressing by anything, of that whole thing in John 6:32-65, was about.
That Proclaimer is just on example of how false teachers force our new testement text to say what in fact it is not even talking about. Or hinting of either. You take it out of context and use it to do exactly what Jesus said, “many” shall come in my name saying i am the Christ and decieve “many”. YOUR DEFINITELY NOT ALONE, Though, so, at least you have that going for you, if that what you want to call it.
I am not a Muslim never was nor ever will be, but that is not to saying, that some of they say reguarding Jesus as a prophet is not true, even Moses said he was a prophet like him.
Peace and love to you and yours……….gene
The bread of heaven came down and then ascended back up to where he was before. Simple. Many had / have a problem with that including you. And who is the bread of heaven? Obviously Jesus
Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
And yes he returned to where he was before as the scriptures below state.
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me;
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. They were looking intently into the sky as He was going,
Game over Gene. You have been debunked. But let’s watch you oppose my post which is scripture. And why attack scripture? I would argue the likely cause is pride. You developed an understanding way back and are too stubborn to change when the truth is presented to you. The explanation can only be that pride is stronger than your search for truth. Sad.
Proclaimer……. Jesus was certanily in the plan of God before the foundations of this earth, scriptures says so, but, so was all of mankind, scripture says so, so by that, are we to asume we preexisted also? You could say that right?
Lets take Cryus, he was prophesied and even named, 200 years before his birth, and was called a servant of God also right? , so are we to assume Cryus was a preexisting being? , like Jesus, he was also prophesied to come into his existence also, like Jesus was. Why don’t you address that issue. And also just say all of mankind prexisted also because scripture can be made to support the points.
When Jesus was resrected from the grave and alive again as he was before he died , what did he tell Mary, to tell his deciples? , was it not, that he was going to his God and our God, his Father and our Father?, notice he never said he was going “back”OR “RETURNING” TO HIM , DID HE?
IF you like we can go through that whole group of scriptures there in John 6:31-65, That whole thing was “spritually”, speaking, and given in a “medphoric” sense. IS Jesus a real piece of bread? , no he is not, , do we actually drink his blood, no we don’t, that whole thing is speaking “medphorically” and made to be taken spritually, not literally. Jesus even said there, that he was speaking spititually, saying , the word i am telling are spirit and are life.
No Jesus was not alive in heaven and “morphed into a physical body FROM HEAVEN. Jesus was a “prophsied” being, exactly as Cryus was , and came into his “only” true existence at the time of his birth. So In that sense, he was sent from heaven, BY BEING “PROPHESIDE” , AND , yes so was Cryus, Moses and all the propheside ones also and all mankind also is made from heaven. WHY because “All” came from God, Trying to move Jesus’ real identity, away from his fellow brothers and sisters, is “exactly” what Satan wants you and others to do. He wants to break the linkage between Jesus and his fellow human brothers and sisters , he want you to make Jesus different and turn him into a God, and commit “Idolarty” , because he knows God will reject all who do that.
Though you reject the idea of Jesus being a God, you embrace all the rest of the false teachings, that is why i said you are, not hot, nor cold, your what we call here a “fence walker”, but thats still a dangereous position to be in. I believe God will not use this site to it’s full poteniual, until you come to see that. Proclaimer go to this site on You Tube……. “21st century reformation” watch some of there programs and tell me what you think about it.
Peace and love to you and yours Proclaimer…………gene
Proclaimer……. Jesus was certanily in the plan of God before the foundations of this earth,
I didn’t get very far reading your post before I noticed the first error.
That is when I stop reading and give an answer.
That is all I have time for.
You see, you add in the word ‘plan’ and it changes everything.
One word is all it takes to go from truth to false doctrine.
For example, ‘the fool has said in his heart there is A God’.
See how this is wrong too? All it took was replacing one word.
Replacing one word is not harmless. Rather, it shows bias.
Hi Gene,
YOU: Proclaimer……. Jesus was certanily in the plan of God before the foundations of this earth,
ME: THE OLD STORY Gene,
JESUS WAS NOT JUST IN THE PLAN OF GOD, BUT
THE PLAN ITSELF!
ALL IN HIM, ALL BY HIM, AND ALL FOR HIM!
AT THE VERY END ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD, WE ONLY SEE
GOD IN JESUS
AND THE ENTIRE CREATION ALL IN JESUS AS GOD
NO GOD NO JESUS
NO JESUS NO GOD
John16:25These things I have spoken to you in proverbs.
The hour cometh, when I will no more speak to you in proverbs,
but will show you PLAINLY of the Father.
John 17:5 And now glorify thou me,
O Father, with thyself,
with the glory which I had, before the world was, with thee.
John 17:10 And all my things are thine, and thine are mine;
and I am glorified in them.
John17:11 And now I am not in the world, (ALREADY GLORIFIED, IN A SPIRITUAL BODY) and these are in the world, and I come to thee.
Holy Father, keep them in thy name (JESUS) WHOM YOU HAS GIVEN ME;
that they may be one, as we also are.
Jhon17:20
And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me;
21That they all may be one, as thou,
Father, in me, and I in thee;
that they also may be one in us;
that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them;
that they may be one, as we also are one:
23I in them, and thou in me;
that they may be made perfect in one:
JESUS CHRIST
GODMAN
and the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me.
John17:24 Father, I will that where I am, they also whom thou hast given me may be with me;
that they may see my glory which thou hast given me,
GOD’S UNIQUE PHYSICAL BODY AS
JESUS CHRIST
GODMAN
because thou hast loved me before the creation of the world.
scriptures says so, but, so was all of mankind, scripture says so, so by that,
are we to asume we preexisted also? You could say that right?
ME:Gene,
DEFINITELY
WE WERE CREATED PERFECT SPIRITUAL BEINGS IN GENESIS 1:1
WE BECAME CORRUPTED HUMANS LIKE, ON THE FIRST EARTH!
WE WERE DESTROYED BY LUCIFER! Genesis 1:2 ALL SUBMERGED UNDER THE WATER! Psalm 18, JOB 38:8-21
THE MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING!
GOD REESTABLISHED A NEW CREATION in GENESIS 1:3 between
LIGHT AND DARKNESS, GOOD AND EVIL, JESUS AND SATAN, SOUL AND FLESH, RESPECTIVELY
EITHER TO BECOME ALL SPIRITUAL IN CHRIST OR ALL BECOME SPIRITUAL IN SATAN.
ON THIS PLANET!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel……..You of all here should not talk about adding words to our text, you can’t hardly quote a sentence with out adding your own words and thoughts to it. As far as created perfect goes , that is not true, we were created with the propensity to sin from the very start of human creation even till this very day, all humans have that propensity in them. We must over come it , exactly as Jesus did, “we must be born again”. We must put our own wills to death, just as Jesus did his Will. We must take to ourselves his life (thats what it means to “drink” his blood (life) , when a person drinks and eats they are taking into themselve food that gives life to them, that is exactly what we must do also, with the flesh sacriffice and Jesus’ life,(blood), we must take it into our selves, by accepting and applying it to ourselves through Faith. Then Jesus’ life will be in us and we in him also? All this is performed by the Spirit of God, just as it was done in Jesus the Anointed one, by that same “spritual process” as it was done in the “MAN” Jesus, all works through FAITH. GIVEN BY God the Father to us, by the “one” and “only” “true” God himself. The God of Jesus and us, the Father of Jesus and us , he is the savior of Jesus and us also. Just “one” God, and savior, working through “all” things.
Sorry Carmel, but thats the truth.
Peace and love to you and yours……….gene
.
Peoclaimer……do you mean like you adding the words, before Abraham (“was alive”) I existed? Or Jesus saying he came down from heaven (“where he existed as a actual being before”) . or as saying Jesus “IS”, the word of God himself, when it actually says he “is called” that, or when Jesus actually clearly said, “the words i am telling you are “NOT”, my words, but the words of him who sent me”.
Proclaimer as far as adding words and thoughts to scriptures goes, you and others do it far more then i ever have imo, BUT I WILL STAND BY WHAT I HAVE SAID, that , God the Father had in mind everything that he ever created “before” he ever created anything he created”. Your job would be to prove that as not true, but you can’t, so you start your discrediting and charater smashing garabage. When you do it more then most here, except Carmel. Bad form Proclaimer.
Peace and love to you and your Proclaimer……….gene
Proclaimer…….What makes you think I have any problem with Jesus being that bread sent from heaven? I don’t HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT AT ALL, I have alway believed he was sent by God the Father , who is in heaven, just as God sent Moses also, and the prophets, they were all sent from God who is in heaven, where God lives, I have no problem with that at all, never did.
I do have a problem with you saying , Jesus “was sent as a preexisting “being”, who existed as a live “BEING” in heaven , before his birth on this earth though”.
Just wanted to clairfy that.
Peace and love to you and your Proclaimer………..gene
Gene
What makes you think I have any problem with Jesus being that bread sent from heaven? I don’t HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT AT ALL, I have alway believed he was sent by God the Father , who is in heaven,
Me
Jesus Saïd:
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
BEFORE HIS INCARNATION, JESUS WAS IN HEAVEN(SEE JOHN17) AND HE WAS MADE FLESH AND DID AMONG US.(JOHN1:14)
HE LIVED A PERFECT LIFE, HE DIED AND RISEN AND HE ASCENT INTO HEAVEN TO JOIN THE FATHER AND HE IS INTERCEDING FOR BELIEVERS WITH THE FATHER.Peoclaimer……do you mean like you adding the words, before Abraham (“was alive”) I existed?
‘Before Abraham, I am’ will suffice.
You cannot say the same with your additions.
I do not need to add or takeaway from scripture to gain my understanding. I can read it verbatim. And when I do quote verbatim, you oppose me. That says it all gene.
Proclaimer…….What makes you think I have any problem with Jesus being that bread sent from heaven? I don’t HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT AT ALL
You have various problem with him coming from heaven and ascending to the glory he had before the creation of the world. You deny the son of God.
You seem to have a problem with the greater realm and want everything including your messiah to be of this world which is the enemy of God.
Proclaimer…….You read it verbatim, you interurpt it wrong, why? BECAUSE YOU DON’T SEE THE VERY REASON FOR THE EXISTENCE OF THE “MAN” Jesus, and his having to be “ANOINITED”, with the Holy Spirit from on high. That is what came down from heaven and perfected the “Man” Jesus, he was born and came into his only existence as a real human being , “a son of mankind” , he was baptized, with the fullness of Spirit, from God who is in heaven, he as a Son of Man from mankind was tested and overcame, by that same Spirit he was baptized with from God, who is in heaven.
He put his own “will” to death, by that same spirit of God from heaven. HE GAVE UP HIS HUMAN life by that same spirit he recieved from God the Father, who was and is in heaven. We must do the exact same thing by that exact same spirit from heaven. JESUS SHOWED US THE “WAY” to achieve that goal God had and has in mind for all his human creation.
But self rightious “FREEWILLER’S” , who think they by their our “freewill” choices they save themselves , will never put their own wills to death, right Proclaimer?
Jesus said, “WHOSOEVER “OVERCOMES” even as “I have”, shall enter into the kingdom of God. No difference we enter in the exact way Jesus did, by the same “anointing Spirit of God.
“now if the Spirit of Him (God) , that raised Jesus from the dead, dwell in you , He (God) that raised christ from the dead shall “ALSO” quicken YOUR MORTAL BODY, by the Spirit that dwells in you” , that is what came down from heaven and made the “man” Jesus the bread of life, and that was in the plan and will of God the Father, before the very foundations of this earth was ever laid.
Jesus is a “perfected” man, “by God the Father”, from mankind. We can also attain to the exact stature of Jesus Christ, by the exact same way? “we must all be born again as Jesus was”. We must eat (take to ourselves) his flesh payment for our sins, and then we must drink , take to ourselves, his blood, why? because (life is in the blood) another words we must start living our lives as Jesus does his, then We will be “IN” Christ Jesus, and He “IN” us. Just as he said, “I “in” you and you “in” me. Then God the Father will be ” IN” ALL and “THROUGH” ALL. By the exact same Spirit that was and is “IN” , the “MAN” Jesus, the anointed one of God, and all his brothers and sisters who are the “anointed” ones of God, “exactly” as the man Jesus is.
Peace and love to you and yours Proclaimer………..gene
Proclaimer…….You read it verbatim, you interurpt it wrong, why? BECAUSE YOU DON’T SEE THE VERY REASON FOR THE EXISTENCE OF THE “MAN” Jesus, and his having to be “ANOINITED”, with the Holy Spirit from on high. That is what came down from heaven and perfected the “Man” Jesus, he was born and came into his only existence as a real human being , “a son of mankind” ,
You do not believe in the Son of God who became a son of man.
It is the message of the New Testament.
Your beliefs are closer to how Islam views Jesus.
Islam and it’s view of Jesus is not of the true faith.
God gave us his Son to pay the price for your sin.
God paid the highest price because he loves you.
Love knows no bounds.
Those who are bound to this world will not understand.
Proclaimer, you Got it backwards, Jesus was a Son of man, according to him over 80 times saying it, who died and became a son of God, you, must be born again, just as he was, and must over come just as he did, inorder to enter the kingdom of God.
Why do you keep trying to say I M LIKE THE Muslims, when i have told you clearly, i am not now, or ever was a Muslim. AS FAR AS THEM SAYING JESUS WAS A PROPHET GOES, Moses said the exact same thing , so i guess he was like a Muslim to, right? But your picking and chossing scriptures, that you can twist to say what you believe is the exact same thing that all modern Christanity does, which make you one of them, the “mamy” , which Jesus said would come and “decieve” the “Many”. You “mistorious” “religious” renditions, of who Jesus actually is, is from the earth and is not the true Jesus, the Jesus who said, this,” I AM THE ROOT AND OFSPRING OF “David” , question is , do you or they , “truly” , believe him and what he said? , And what many scriptures say, both in the New Testement and the Old Testements about him.
You have jumped on to what blinds , nearly all of, “modern christanity”, and have blinded yoursef also from “the truth”.
Seek the guidence from the “spirit of truth”, and it will reveal and teach, the truth to you, just as it did to Jesus and all the Apostles, and all the members of the true church of God.
Peace and love to you and yours Proclaimer……….gene
Hi Gene,
You: As far as created perfect goes , that is not true,
Ezekiel 28:15Thou wast PERFECT in thy ways from the day of thy CREATION, until iniquity was found in thee.
Me: WHAT THE SCRIPTURE ABOVE TELLS YOU?
we were created with the propensity to sin from the very start of human creation even till this very day, all humans have that propensity in them.
ME: ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT GOD CREATED US IN SUCH A STATE?
ANSWER Gene, WHEN DID IT ORIGINATE?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Carmel
You
we were created with the propensity to sin from the very start of human creation even till this very day, all humans have that propensity in them.
Me
We were created perfect, with free will and with the ability to perfect ourselves…in God.
Proclaimer, you Got it backwards, Jesus was a Son of man, according to him over 80 times saying it, who died and became a son of God,
Incorrect Gene
You have it backwards.
In Luke 1:35, before the birth of Jesus, the angel tells Mary that her child “shall be called the Son of God”. In Luke 4:41 (and Mark 3:11), when Jesus casts out demons, they fall down before him, and declare: “You are the Son of God.”
Demons also came out of many, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But He rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that He was the Messiah.
In John 1:34 in many manuscripts, John the Baptist bears witness that Jesus is the Son of God and in John 11:27 Martha calls him the Messiah and the Son of God.
“Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
In John 19:7, the Jews cry out to Pontius Pilate “Crucify him” based on the charge that Jesus “made himself the Son of God.” The charge that Jesus had declared himself “Son of God” was essential to the argument of the Jews from a religious perspective, as the charge that he had called himself King of the Jews was important to Pilate from a political perspective, for it meant possible rebellion against Rome.
The Jewish leaders insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.
Towards the end of his Gospel, John declares that the purpose for writing it was “that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God”.
Scriptures that expose Gene as a false teacher
More scriptures that prove that Gene is a false teacher. He claims to believe in Jesus the son of God and to believe in the scriptures. But he then denies that Jesus was the Son of God when he was here on earth. He only believes that he became a son of God like any other man can, once born again.
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee? But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am. And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth.
Proclaimer and all…….Ok lets talke about this Son of God thing, you and others think makes Jesus different then we are as concerning his human roots goes, and instead of just jumping over the issue, please for once answer this ok.
What did Jesus “not me”, tell us about this subject of being a son of God?
Matt 23: 9………”And call “no man” your Father, upon the earth: for “one” “IS”, your Father, which is in heaven”
Question is, do you “truly” believe what Jesus said? If so how is it saying God Is Jesus’ Father and Saying God is our Father , makes Jesus any different the we are, with our heavenly Father?
Problem is you people preach “Jesus” , but don’t really “believe”, what he says do you?
Here another one, for you to grope at, Jesus said this “not” me,
John 14:12…..“Verly, verly , I SAY UNTO YOU, He that believes on me , the works “I Do “, shall he do “Also”, and “GREATER” works then these shall he do, because I go unto my Father.
I see no greater work then Jesus did being done today, do you, why, because it is exactly as Jesus said it would be on this earth when he returns, “when the Son of Man returns, will he find “FAITH” on the earth. , answer is, i doubt it?
You people all preach “ABOUT” Jesus, just as he said you would, and decieve “many”. But you see the Gospel was never about Jesus, it was about God the Father and the Kingsom of God, that is what Jesus preached, he was not going around glorifying himself, as you people do him , but his, and the deciples work, was all about the “KINGDOM OF GOD”. IT’s, the message of Jesus that counts, not the glorification of the Man, Jesus. Jesus said this, not , me, “IF HE GLORIFIED “HIMSELF”, HIS GLORY WAS NOTHING”.
You people preach Jesus that is for sure, buy not his message . You take Jesus away from HIS HUMAN ROOTS, and build a pedisol and put him on it, and worship him as your God. All you do and say is about the “Man” Jesus, while all the time ignoring his message. You make the “image of Jesus, into you modern “Golden Calf,” AND FALL DOWN AND WORSHIP THAT IMAGE YOU HAVE MADE, OF, “the man Jesus”, as your God, 2ths2. SAYS IT ALL.
For those who have eyes to see, it’s all there.
Peace and love to you all………gene
Question is, do you “truly” believe what Jesus said? If so how is it saying God Is Jesus’ Father and Saying God is our Father , makes Jesus any different the we are, with our heavenly Father?
Gene, yes there are sons of God. But Jesus is the Prototype Son. That is the difference. He is the first and takes first place in all things. We will be like him. But he is the groom and we are not.
God created all thing through him and for him.
He is between God and Man. Thus he is the Son and he was able to come in the flesh and become one of us. Now we will become one of him. We will be like him and have a body like his.
The way you treat the Son of God is wrong.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
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