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Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,15:50) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 24 2012,15:10) Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,12:47) https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=17;t=4491;st=0;r=1;&#entry376737 The link about is how FAITH HEALING today works.
Or doesn't work.Tell me again why this god doesn't heal amputees.
Stuart
Stu, Yes, I meant how it appears to work or why people believe it works.Regarding God healing amputees, Stay on topic. If you are going to mock something in this thread, keep it to faith healing.
I thought I was.To paraphrase Charity, please let me know what you would like me to mock. I too feel a sense of the importance of mocking on-topic. It's not as if there is any shortage of material on any topic of christian mythology. Especially when it is all taken so absurdly earnestly by nominally intelligent people.
Stuart
Stu, watch the video. I am actually certain you will enjoy the video. I know you will. I'm sorry. I guess you were on topic. I thought you were saying something else. If you want me to tell you why God doesnt heal amputees, you perhaps misunderstand my thoughts on this. The video makes the same point you do. Categories would be less because we wouldn't be discussing denominations, false teaching, and there will be no Skeptic Area too. These will all stay here and continue as they are.
Quote (princess @ Nov. 24 2012,21:25) Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,12:15) Quote (princess @ Nov. 24 2012,07:14) David, Guncher is on his own quest, there are many religions and faiths out there David, is Guncher allowed only to choose one? Guncher is not permitted to question and search?
I actually never processed magic and the bible until I read your post, never really dawned on me before. That is what sparked my interest and for me to make the inquiry.
So you have been speaking indirectly to me all along? Once again would you prefer Q&A or a small brief?
Hi princess, I'm wondering which post that I posted got you thinking and I'm wondering what it made you think about.Yes, maybe indirectly Was not the right word. I have been speaking to you on one level, when perhaps I could be speaking to you on another level…a more clear, direct one? Never mind.
What are your beliefs?
Atheist?
Bible is a good book with helpful ideas?
It's the word of God?
We can't know?
We tend to wonder at times don't we David.
Actually I like to compare modern times with ancient times. The commons that are there are more then most think.Your quest, what exactly that sparked your interest in magic tricks and to study mental illness? What was your goal and have you acheive it yet? Perhaps that will clear up and make things more direct?
Nevermind what? That is such an insulting phrase. It is like a you wouldn't understand type of comment.Defining oneself is somewhat difficult, however a spiritual agnostic is about as close as I can get for you to understand.
Now shall we proceed with our conversation?
Princess, the “never mind” was me realizing I couldn't make my thoughts clear to you in an understandable way, so I gave up.“Spiritual agnostic.” I now think I understand why this subject might be of interest to you.
If you are spiritual agnostic, both I, or stu, (the other one in this dark room of isolation) would probably say: you are half way there.
People see something they don't understand and form belief around it. They then seek out ideas that support that feeling or belief they have. I'm really not sure if you are trying to drive the last nail in the coffin, and shut the door, or if you are looking for that bit of magic that creates the feeling I spoke of. Were you wanting me to try to explain the miracles of the bible? Or were you wanting me to tell you they are wholly different from magic, and cannot be explained? Which way did you want to go?
The things that would make our conversation more direct, is, each of us knowing who the other person is. I was quite fuzzy about what you believed, and you actually have no idea what I really believe.
David,
Thanks for that video. I did enjoy it.My first wife was diagnosed with MS at the young age of 32.
By the age of 36 she was quadriplegic, blind, on a respirator and unable to do
anything for herself. I fed her, bathed her medicated her and cared for her every need.I prayed daily for God to ease her pain. I prayed daily for God to intervene in the slightest way, but He never did. So I thought that it was my fault. My faith was not strong enough.
I wouldn't abandon her to a nursing facility because I didn't want for her to lose what little hope that she had.
Watching her waste away the way that she did was devastating to my children who were only 9 and 10 years old at the time. My girl who is now a grown woman is doing well today, but no longer believes in a god. My son fell into drugs and alcohol and I haven't seen him in over twenty years. I think he may still be alive. Needless to say I felt very much like Job must have felt in the bible.The reason for this long story is that as a last resort, since the doctors were unable to help, and God wouldn't, I took her to a faith healer that was visiting our city. I rolled her into the arena in a reclining wheelchair with a portable respirator so she could breath. Ernest Angley was this faith healers name. I put all of my hope in this man, that maybe God would listen to him, even if he ignored me. I truly believed that God was healing these people through this faith healer.
I prayed fervently with Mr. Angley for my wife's healing, and gave money that I couldn't afford to his ministry which I sorely needed to pay for existing health care expenses.
Desperation can make a person very gullible.
Three months later my wife died in my home. I forgave God, and actually remained a Christian for many years after, but I never forgave Ernest Angley.Until this day I curse these greedy leaches that build up false hope for money. I would love to do what this man in the video did to expose them.
Tim
That was a powerful testimonial, Tim. I am truly saddened by the tragedy you've suffered. I look forward to a day when there are no more tears.
I look forward to the day when there is no more of anything like that. Faith healing, psychic cold reading and psychic channeling are all examples of vulnerable people being exploited. The exploiters are either genuinely deluded or cynically money-grubbing. The best thing that could be said about any of this is that someone having astrological readings might be sitting with another person who is devoting themselves to listening, which is a service that could equally be provided by a counselor, perhaps at greater expense.
When it comes to making claims about what has happened to one's loved ones after death, I think christianity is just as bad. It could be argued that there is some comfort to be had in telling people the dead are in a “better place”, but claims of some alternative ongoing existence cannot be substantiated, and it ignores the christian doctrines of the possibility of being dug up later and finally destroyed by fire.
Is there comfort in a mythology? I find reality more appealing.
Stuart
“God spoke on frequency 39.17 MHz”
The cosmic microwave radiation from the birth of the universe “speaks to us” at a frequency range peaking at 160 GHz.
That makes the universe 4000 times better than a psychic fraud contained within it.
That's as New-Age as I am prepared to go.
Stuart
Quote (david @ Nov. 25 2012,02:26) Quote (princess @ Nov. 24 2012,21:25) Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,12:15) Quote (princess @ Nov. 24 2012,07:14) David, Guncher is on his own quest, there are many religions and faiths out there David, is Guncher allowed only to choose one? Guncher is not permitted to question and search?
I actually never processed magic and the bible until I read your post, never really dawned on me before. That is what sparked my interest and for me to make the inquiry.
So you have been speaking indirectly to me all along? Once again would you prefer Q&A or a small brief?
Hi princess, I'm wondering which post that I posted got you thinking and I'm wondering what it made you think about.Yes, maybe indirectly Was not the right word. I have been speaking to you on one level, when perhaps I could be speaking to you on another level…a more clear, direct one? Never mind.
What are your beliefs?
Atheist?
Bible is a good book with helpful ideas?
It's the word of God?
We can't know?
We tend to wonder at times don't we David.
Actually I like to compare modern times with ancient times. The commons that are there are more then most think.Your quest, what exactly that sparked your interest in magic tricks and to study mental illness? What was your goal and have you acheive it yet? Perhaps that will clear up and make things more direct?
Nevermind what? That is such an insulting phrase. It is like a you wouldn't understand type of comment.Defining oneself is somewhat difficult, however a spiritual agnostic is about as close as I can get for you to understand.
Now shall we proceed with our conversation?
Princess, the “never mind” was me realizing I couldn't make my thoughts clear to you in an understandable way, so I gave up.“Spiritual agnostic.” I now think I understand why this subject might be of interest to you.
If you are spiritual agnostic, both I, or stu, (the other one in this dark room of isolation) would probably say: you are half way there.
People see something they don't understand and form belief around it. They then seek out ideas that support that feeling or belief they have. I'm really not sure if you are trying to drive the last nail in the coffin, and shut the door, or if you are looking for that bit of magic that creates the feeling I spoke of. Were you wanting me to try to explain the miracles of the bible? Or were you wanting me to tell you they are wholly different from magic, and cannot be explained? Which way did you want to go?
The things that would make our conversation more direct, is, each of us knowing who the other person is. I was quite fuzzy about what you believed, and you actually have no idea what I really believe.
DavidYou practice Jehovah Witness faith do you not? I know somewhat of the faith, Jesus based, you are the only true ones going to heaven, take the passage go out and spread the gospel physically, difference in the end of the world. I am generalizing.
Using the spiritual agnostic was for you to better understand. I don't practice any religion or faith now, does not mean I have not gained knowledge along the way.
I don't go around performing rituals of any kind, chant any prayers. Meditate or anything like that.
The para normal caught my interest for a bit, then like the magic that you speak of, you begin to learn about the true nature of the matter.I do not disagree when someone sees or even hears things they can form a belief around it. If it is on ones heart to fully believe then they will and yes find ideas to support such. I don't believe in magic or luck David nor am I looking for a miracle to happen in my life, but thank you for your concern.
I will remember next time that nevermind is when you cannot communicate your thoughts to me.Yes you could start by comparing the mircales of the bible to magic or majick of today.
If needed and please let me know we could expand further on getting to know one another or we could continue in this bantering back and forth and not accomplish a thing. Either or.
TimothyVI,
I have said it before and I will continue to say it, a gentleman and scholar you are. The world needs more like you. Much love to you TimothyVI.
Princess
Quote (david @ Nov. 25 2012,02:12) Stu, watch the video. I am actually certain you will enjoy the video. I know you will. I'm sorry. I guess you were on topic. I thought you were saying something else. If you want me to tell you why God doesnt heal amputees, you perhaps misunderstand my thoughts on this. The video makes the same point you do. Categories would be less because we wouldn't be discussing denominations, false teaching, and there will be no Skeptic Area too. These will all stay here and continue as they are.
David,I had to go back and look to make sure I was correct. The last part of your paragraph are T8's words.
You know this yes?
Quote (princess @ Nov. 25 2012,12:16) Quote (david @ Nov. 25 2012,02:12) Stu, watch the video. I am actually certain you will enjoy the video. I know you will. I'm sorry. I guess you were on topic. I thought you were saying something else. If you want me to tell you why God doesnt heal amputees, you perhaps misunderstand my thoughts on this. The video makes the same point you do. Categories would be less because we wouldn't be discussing denominations, false teaching, and there will be no Skeptic Area too. These will all stay here and continue as they are.
David,I had to go back and look to make sure I was correct. The last part of your paragraph are T8's words.
You know this yes?
Princess.Yes, very weird. It seems I copy and paste a lot and post posts rare quickly. Must have somehow pasted t8's words into this post. I will leave it there to confuse people.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 25 2012,04:04) David,
Thanks for that video. I did enjoy it.My first wife was diagnosed with MS at the young age of 32.
By the age of 36 she was quadriplegic, blind, on a respirator and unable to do
anything for herself. I fed her, bathed her medicated her and cared for her every need.I prayed daily for God to ease her pain. I prayed daily for God to intervene in the slightest way, but He never did. So I thought that it was my fault. My faith was not strong enough.
I wouldn't abandon her to a nursing facility because I didn't want for her to lose what little hope that she had.
Watching her waste away the way that she did was devastating to my children who were only 9 and 10 years old at the time. My girl who is now a grown woman is doing well today, but no longer believes in a god. My son fell into drugs and alcohol and I haven't seen him in over twenty years. I think he may still be alive. Needless to say I felt very much like Job must have felt in the bible.The reason for this long story is that as a last resort, since the doctors were unable to help, and God wouldn't, I took her to a faith healer that was visiting our city. I rolled her into the arena in a reclining wheelchair with a portable respirator so she could breath. Ernest Angley was this faith healers name. I put all of my hope in this man, that maybe God would listen to him, even if he ignored me. I truly believed that God was healing these people through this faith healer.
I prayed fervently with Mr. Angley for my wife's healing, and gave money that I couldn't afford to his ministry which I sorely needed to pay for existing health care expenses.
Desperation can make a person very gullible.
Three months later my wife died in my home. I forgave God, and actually remained a Christian for many years after, but I never forgave Ernest Angley.Until this day I curse these greedy leaches that build up false hope for money. I would love to do what this man in the video did to expose them.
Tim
Tim, I am so sorry. You have had a tough brutal devastating life. I truly hate faith healers. I am going to put your words in the faith healers thread if that's ok. These people are the lowest of the low. I feel they should be exposed. Again, I am so sorry you had to go through these things.David.
Thank you All,
I didn't tell my story in order to get sympathy. The video stirred up
lingering resentment for faith healing charlatans in me, and the response seemed to just pour out.I am quite happy now. I remarried after a couple of years to my present wife of 30 years.
Ironically I remained a Christian even after God threw me another curve ball in 2004.
My wife suffers migraines and depression and accidentally overdosed on her prescription medications about eight years ago and come as close to death as a person can come and still live.When I found her in bed she was barely breathing and totally unresponsive. She was rushed to the hospital and remained in a coma for months. When sepsis set in the doctors were not certain that even if she lived she would ever be responsive and cognitive again. Well she eventually did recover and I gave the praise to God even though in my mind I was really thankful for, and credited the skill of the doctors and nurses that brought her back.
My wife and I both still attended church after her recovery, she was after all their resident miracle story, but I started to question things in the bible that made no sense to me. The pastor was of no help and could not answer my questions intelligently. That was about the time that I joined Heaven Net. If you check back on my posts as late as a few years ago you will see that I was still a questioning believer. It wasn't God ignoring my needs that turned me in to an unbeliever.
I first became a non believer in the bible as a book of truth, and if I couldn't believe the bible, then how could I believe in the bible's God?As my faith began to slip away I was grief stricken. It was like losing another member of my family. I had believed in God since I was a small child and now I was starting to doubt.
I can remember lying awake nights crying for hours. Praying for God to not let me slip away.
Pleading with him to just give me a small sign that he was real. All I heard was a deafening silence.
I finally decided that if there was a God. He had made it abundantly clear that he wasn't interested in having me as a child of his.Since that time, through study, I have become more and more aware of how illogical all religion seems.
Tim
Quote (david @ Nov. 25 2012,13:56) Quote (princess @ Nov. 25 2012,12:16) Quote (david @ Nov. 25 2012,02:12) Stu, watch the video. I am actually certain you will enjoy the video. I know you will. I'm sorry. I guess you were on topic. I thought you were saying something else. If you want me to tell you why God doesnt heal amputees, you perhaps misunderstand my thoughts on this. The video makes the same point you do. Categories would be less because we wouldn't be discussing denominations, false teaching, and there will be no Skeptic Area too. These will all stay here and continue as they are.
David,I had to go back and look to make sure I was correct. The last part of your paragraph are T8's words.
You know this yes?
Princess.Yes, very weird. It seems I copy and paste a lot and post posts rare quickly. Must have somehow pasted t8's words into this post. I will leave it there to confuse people.
Once a matter is clear confusion doesn't exsist.Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,10:12) Stu, watch the video. I am actually certain you will enjoy the video. I know you will. I'm sorry. I guess you were on topic. I thought you were saying something else. If you want me to tell you why God doesnt heal amputees, you perhaps misunderstand my thoughts on this. The video makes the same point you do. Categories would be less because we wouldn't be discussing denominations, false teaching, and there will be no Skeptic Area too. These will all stay here and continue as they are.
I watched the video David, and several more of Derren. He was fascinating. Thanks for putting it up.Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,05:56) Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,10:12) Stu, watch the video. I am actually certain you will enjoy the video. I know you will. I'm sorry. I guess you were on topic. I thought you were saying something else. If you want me to tell you why God doesnt heal amputees, you perhaps misunderstand my thoughts on this. The video makes the same point you do. Categories would be less because we wouldn't be discussing denominations, false teaching, and there will be no Skeptic Area too. These will all stay here and continue as they are.
I watched the video David, and several more of Derren. He was fascinating. Thanks for putting it up.
Derren has a very interesting skill set. He understands how the mind works. He sets up experiments that perhaps no one else in the world could pull off. (See his apocalypse show)TIM, I suggest you watch his “fear and faith” special, particularly the second half where he takes someone that is an absolute atheist and pulls and strings together all the feelings necessary for her to believe in God. He does this in 15 minutes! And no, it is not faked, and yes, it really happened.
I suggest no one else watch this documentary. Only TIM.
Quote I suggest no one else watch this documentary. Only TIM. 
Your pretty sneaky, David
I'm going to be watching you as you practice on us, ha!Hi Tim,
Your story grieves me. I'm sorry for what you have gone through, I can only imagine. It seems that if your pastor were able to give you the answers you sought, you would not have lost your hope in God. I would like to enter into a one on one discussion with you about your questions. I don't know if I can give you answers but I will try and probably learn a lot in the process. Are you game? It could be titled 'Discuss Bible Questions, Lu/Tim.'Quote (david @ Nov. 26 2012,07:59) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,05:56) Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,10:12) Stu, watch the video. I am actually certain you will enjoy the video. I know you will. I'm sorry. I guess you were on topic. I thought you were saying something else. If you want me to tell you why God doesnt heal amputees, you perhaps misunderstand my thoughts on this. The video makes the same point you do. Categories would be less because we wouldn't be discussing denominations, false teaching, and there will be no Skeptic Area too. These will all stay here and continue as they are.
I watched the video David, and several more of Derren. He was fascinating. Thanks for putting it up.
Derren has a very interesting skill set. He understands how the mind works. He sets up experiments that perhaps no one else in the world could pull off. (See his apocalypse show)TIM, I suggest you watch his “fear and faith” special, particularly the second half where he takes someone that is an absolute atheist and pulls and strings together all the feelings necessary for her to believe in God. He does this in 15 minutes! And no, it is not faked, and yes, it really happened.
I suggest no one else watch this documentary. Only TIM.
Ladies and gentlemen the show continues…………..
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