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Alright David,
Just curious to your thoughts on this. In the thread psychics your knowledge of magic is not only surprising but in depth, how do you perceive magic in the bible?
I think we should begin with definitions.
If you go into a large book store, you may well find a small section on “magic” made up of 4 books on card magic, 3 books of puzzles, and this section is usually next to the games section. The book store we have has about 3 or 4 such books in this section that is called “MAGIC”
in another room, there is a much larger section, a whole room called “MAJIK”. It's sometimes spelt “magick” or “magick.” The point is, it is spelled differently to differentiate it from the card tricks in the other section. This “MAJIK” section has many hundreds of books on astrology, horoscopes, divination, witchcraft, voodoo, and the bible. (They recently switched this around so that bibles had their own action, probably vp because of complaints). Anything supernatural or thought to be supernatural goes in this section. There is much much more interest in “MAGICK” than there is in magic. Yet, the bible uses the word “magic.” If you look up “magic” in a dictionary it will no doubt include the word “illusion” as one of the definitions. While everyone understands “magic” as being tricks, “Magick” however is not thought to be illusions.
How do I perceive magic in the bible?
I perceive it as bad.
ACTS 13:8-10
“But El′y·mas the sorcerer (that, in fact, is the way his name is translated) began opposing them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. Saul, who is also Paul, becoming filled with holy spirit, looked at him intently and said: “O man full of every sort of fraud and every sort of villainy, you son of the Devil, you enemy of everything righteous”
Paul said that this sorcerer was full of every sort of fraud.
I know that every sorcerer (faith healer, charlatan, psychic, etc) is similarly “full of every sort of fraud.”
It's easy to see their deceptions. If they had real powers, today, they would not need to use deception.
Looking at the book of Daniel, there are a ton of wise men of all sorts; astrologers, sorcerers, magicians, magic practising priests, etc.
In chapter two, for me, it seems like they are pulling CLASSIC fraudulent techniques used today.
They cannot tell the king what his dream is. But they are more than happy to interpret it for him, once the information is gleaned. Psychics today always feed off of information. They don't just read a persons mind. They fish for information. Sometimes, a faith healer will have his whole congregation fill out “prayer cards” or “contact information cards” beforehand, and these have all the information the faith healer needs to appear to do miraculous things. (See “faith healing” thread and video)
Is there any record in the bible of a psychic foretelling the future, or reading someone's mind? Astrologers seem to do back then just what they do today. Once GIVEN the information, they can play with it.
Alright, differences noted.
So now to determine the difference between magic and majick in the bible. Which format do you prefer, me asking questions or you giving a small brief on the differences in the bible on what is considered magic or majik?
BOOK OF DANIEL
Something I've wondered about for a while:
In Dan 2:24, Daniel says: do not destroy the wise men of Babylon. (This included all the magick guys, sorcerers, etc). In effect, Daniel prevented all the sorcerers and magicians from being destroyed. He himself of course was viewd as a wise man and would also have been destroyed.
After this, Daniel is made chief of the magic practising priests and sorcerers and astrologers. This is mentioned a couple times that he had this position. (Dan 5:11)
Of course, being in charge of a group of magicians does not make you a magician. But, I just find it interesting. I wonder what it would have been like for him, a worshiper of God, to be in charge or chief over all these wise men. How can you be in charge of a group that you are so completely against?
its interesting to me that Daniel saved all the magicians and astrologers from destruction, and then he became their chief.
Quote (princess @ Nov. 24 2012,06:24) Alright, differences noted. So now to determine the difference between magic and majick in the bible. Which format do you prefer, me asking questions or you giving a small brief on the differences in the bible on what is considered magic or majik?
All magic in the bible is thought to be magick. But, where fraud is involved, clearly it is not based on supernatural means. See post above.Perhaps they found Daniel to be their saving grace and with such and the times made him chief. It would be quite difficult to manage such without having the same thought process as the others.
Then again you find Joseph being the Pharaoh's right hand man.
Perhaps during the times it did not matter what god you served just how well you handled yourself.Quote (princess @ Nov. 24 2012,06:31) So the maji or what some call the three wise men (why I don't know) are considered what to you?
The unspecified number of magi were chaldean who were looking into the stars and so calling them astrologers seems reasonable. They followed the moving star.Yes, how did they know. I know that today, astrologers can't predict jack squat.
I view the stars back then as the equivalent to TV today. If I didn't have TV I would probably stare at the stars quite a bit as well. The stars and night sky was fairly important back then. (No GPS; hard to buy maps). So, I can see them wondering very much about this odd star, much in the same way some are enthrawled by American idol.
Princess, you, having suggested to gruncher that he may want to try different faiths (other than Christianity) I would like to know what your beliefs are concerning the bible and magic. Or, even just the bible in general. I will perhaps speak much more directly to you, depending on what you already believe.
Not big on tele so I have a hard time comprehending such. I always take a look up to the stars at night. I find it amazing though how so many people rely on their horoscope, odd to me. I do have to say though more babies are born on a full moon, but anyone can figure that out and the reason why.
So all bible accounts are true to nature when such 'paranormal or supernatural' incidents occur?
Quote So all bible accounts are true to nature when such 'paranormal or supernatural' incidents occur? Are you asking me if I think that there are no supernatural accounts in the bible? I am just focusing on the magicians in the bible, the sorcerers, astrologers, diviners, etc.
What are your religious beliefs? This conversation could change dramatically from the vague to the ultra clear.
David,
Guncher is on his own quest, there are many religions and faiths out there David, is Guncher allowed only to choose one? Guncher is not permitted to question and search?
I actually never processed magic and the bible until I read your post, never really dawned on me before. That is what sparked my interest and for me to make the inquiry.
So you have been speaking indirectly to me all along? Once again would you prefer Q&A or a small brief?
Quote (princess @ Nov. 24 2012,07:14) David, Guncher is on his own quest, there are many religions and faiths out there David, is Guncher allowed only to choose one? Guncher is not permitted to question and search?
I actually never processed magic and the bible until I read your post, never really dawned on me before. That is what sparked my interest and for me to make the inquiry.
So you have been speaking indirectly to me all along? Once again would you prefer Q&A or a small brief?
Hi princess, I'm wondering which post that I posted got you thinking and I'm wondering what it made you think about.Yes, maybe indirectly Was not the right word. I have been speaking to you on one level, when perhaps I could be speaking to you on another level…a more clear, direct one? Never mind.
What are your beliefs?
Atheist?
Bible is a good book with helpful ideas?
It's the word of God?
We can't know?https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=17;t=4491;st=0;r=1;&#entry376737
The link about is how FAITH HEALING today works.
Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,12:47) https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=17;t=4491;st=0;r=1;&#entry376737 The link about is how FAITH HEALING today works.
Or doesn't work.Tell me again why this god doesn't heal amputees.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 24 2012,15:10) Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,12:47) https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=17;t=4491;st=0;r=1;&#entry376737 The link about is how FAITH HEALING today works.
Or doesn't work.Tell me again why this god doesn't heal amputees.
Stuart
Stu, Yes, I meant how it appears to work or why people believe it works.Regarding God healing amputees, Stay on topic. If you are going to mock something in this thread, keep it to faith healing.
Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,12:15) Quote (princess @ Nov. 24 2012,07:14) David, Guncher is on his own quest, there are many religions and faiths out there David, is Guncher allowed only to choose one? Guncher is not permitted to question and search?
I actually never processed magic and the bible until I read your post, never really dawned on me before. That is what sparked my interest and for me to make the inquiry.
So you have been speaking indirectly to me all along? Once again would you prefer Q&A or a small brief?
Hi princess, I'm wondering which post that I posted got you thinking and I'm wondering what it made you think about.Yes, maybe indirectly Was not the right word. I have been speaking to you on one level, when perhaps I could be speaking to you on another level…a more clear, direct one? Never mind.
What are your beliefs?
Atheist?
Bible is a good book with helpful ideas?
It's the word of God?
We can't know?
We tend to wonder at times don't we David.
Actually I like to compare modern times with ancient times. The commons that are there are more then most think.Your quest, what exactly that sparked your interest in magic tricks and to study mental illness? What was your goal and have you acheive it yet? Perhaps that will clear up and make things more direct?
Nevermind what? That is such an insulting phrase. It is like a you wouldn't understand type of comment.Defining oneself is somewhat difficult, however a spiritual agnostic is about as close as I can get for you to understand.
Now shall we proceed with our conversation?
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