Continued discussion

[GeneBalthrop]

To all………Wisdom is an atribute it can be in Man and God, it is one of the seven spirits of God, Jesus who had the anointing Spirit of God had God wisdom by verture of that Spirit in him, and his life deffenitely showed the Wisdom of GOD to us all ,who truly believe. IMO

peace and love to you all and yours…………………………………gene

[abe]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 04 2013,07:11)

To all………Wisdom is an atribute it can be in Man and God, it is one of the seven spirits of God, Jesus  who had the anointing Spirit of God had God wisdom by verture of that Spirit in him, and his life deffenitely showed the Wisdom of GOD to us all ,who truly believe. IMO peace and love to you all and yours…………………………………gene

Hi Gene,

Rev.5:11   And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to   ‘Receive'  power, and riches, and   *Wisdom,*   and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

to   ‘Receive'  power, and riches, and    *Wisdom,*

This is Past?……Right?

1Cor.1:30   But of him(God) are ye in Christ Jesus, who Of God is   Made   unto us  Wisdom,  and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Past……Right?

who  Of  God is   Made   unto us  *Wisdom,*

1Cor.1:23   but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Christ the power of God and the *wisdom* of God.

Please tell me, why Christ is not the Wisdom of God?

Peace brother…..

[terraricca]

abe

Quote

Please tell me, why Christ is not the Wisdom of God?

good question.

Christ can not be what the action of God is, right

it is God wisdom to use the preaching of the gospel to save us, and so Christ and the apostles and any true believer become a part of the wisdom of God ,

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2013,11:31)

abe Quote Please tell me, why Christ is not the Wisdom of God? good question.

Indeed.  In 1 Cor 1:23, Christ is poetically referred to as “the wisdom of God”.  Paul was not saying that Jesus Christ is LITERALLY all the wise thoughts and knowledge that God has.

It is a good reference back to Proverbs 8 though, where Christ is also poetically referred to as the wisdom of God. No doubt Paul had this proverb in mind when he wrote 1 Cor 1:23.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,23:41)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2013,11:31) abe Quote Please tell me, why Christ is not the Wisdom of God? good question. Indeed.  In 1 Cor 1:23, Christ is poetically referred to as “the wisdom of God”.  Paul was not saying that Jesus Christ is LITERALLY all the wise thoughts and knowledge that God has. It is a good reference back to Proverbs 8 though, where Christ is also poetically referred to as the wisdom of God.  No doubt Paul had this proverb in mind when he wrote 1 Cor 1:23.

Mike,

Proverbs 8 speaks of Wisdom, who is a female.

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 05 2013,06:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,23:41) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2013,11:31) abe Quote Please tell me, why Christ is not the Wisdom of God? good question. Indeed.  In 1 Cor 1:23, Christ is poetically referred to as “the wisdom of God”.  Paul was not saying that Jesus Christ is LITERALLY all the wise thoughts and knowledge that God has. It is a good reference back to Proverbs 8 though, where Christ is also poetically referred to as the wisdom of God.  No doubt Paul had this proverb in mind when he wrote 1 Cor 1:23. Mike, Proverbs 8 speaks of Wisdom, who is a female.

Hi Kerwin,

“Spirit” is a feminine gender word in both Hebrew and Greek as well.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 05 2013,01:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,23:41) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2013,11:31) abe Quote Please tell me, why Christ is not the Wisdom of God? good question. Indeed.  In 1 Cor 1:23, Christ is poetically referred to as “the wisdom of God”.  Paul was not saying that Jesus Christ is LITERALLY all the wise thoughts and knowledge that God has. It is a good reference back to Proverbs 8 though, where Christ is also poetically referred to as the wisdom of God.  No doubt Paul had this proverb in mind when he wrote 1 Cor 1:23. Mike, Proverbs 8 speaks of Wisdom, who is a female.

kerwin

would that mean that only women have wisdom

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 04 2013,13:51)

Mike, Proverbs 8 speaks of Wisdom, who is a female.

No Kerwin,

Proverbs 8 speaks of a person who is metaphorically called by the GRAMMATICALLY female gendered Hebrew word for “wisdom”.

Don't confuse GRAMMATICAL gender with PHYSICAL gender.

The following is from Wikipedia, concerning the Hebrew word for “spirit”, which is also female in GRAMMATICAL gender:

If speakers of a particular language were to confuse grammatical gender with physical gender, they might then think of the Holy Spirit as male, female or of neither sex, but such confusion does not of course affect the reality of the gender or lack of gender of the Spirit.

The same can be said for the female Hebrew word for “wisdom”.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,17:30)

Hi Kerwin, “Spirit” is a feminine gender word in both Hebrew and Greek as well.

Hi Ed,

It is a female gendered word in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Syriac. In the Greek language, “spirit” is neuter. And in Latin, it is masculine gendered.

I wonder what Kerwin thinks about 1 Cor 1:23-4, which is the verse Abe mentioned in the first place. Is Paul calling Jesus a chick because he calls him the power and wisdom of God?

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (abe @ Aug. 05 2013,04:09)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 04 2013,07:11) To all………Wisdom is an atribute it can be in Man and God, it is one of the seven spirits of God, Jesus  who had the anointing Spirit of God had God wisdom by verture of that Spirit in him, and his life deffenitely showed the Wisdom of GOD to us all ,who truly believe. IMO peace and love to you all and yours…………………………………gene Hi Gene, Rev.5:11   And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to   ‘Receive'  power, and riches, and   *Wisdom,*   and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. to   ‘Receive'  power, and riches, and    *Wisdom,* This is Past?……Right? 1Cor.1:30   But of him(God) are ye in Christ Jesus, who Of God is   Made   unto us  Wisdom,  and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: Past……Right? who  Of  God is   Made   unto us  *Wisdom,* 1Cor.1:23   but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Christ the power of God and the *wisdom* of God. Please tell me, why Christ is not the Wisdom of God? Peace brother…..

Abe…….. Remember the book of revelations is a future tense book, while some of it may be in the past now,  but most is a future revelation to us.

It might be past tense, I am not sure of that. Remember John was carried forward in time in that book. So we can't be sure. IMO

1Cor 1.30 you have right brother. IMO

Christ (or the CHRISTO'S) the anointing Spirit, is indeed the power and wisdom of  God. Some get Christ or CHRISTO'S , as alway meaning The man Jesus, but that is not always the case IMO, one is the man (Jesus) while the other is the Spirit Anointing on the man, and that is the power and Wisdom of GOD , placed upon the man, Jesus, so as a result of the anointing given him, he then has become the power and wisdom of God, because GOD is “in” him by virtue of that spirit he received from him (God).

“God gives his Glory to no man”. Remember brother it was GOD “in” Christ Jesus reconciling the world to “HIMSELF”,  “for the son of man can do “NOTHING” of or from “HIMSELF”.

The “anointed” Jesus is the power and wisdom of God to us , by virtue of the anointing on him. IMO

Peace and love to you and yours Abe……………………gene

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 05 2013,05:54)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 05 2013,01:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,23:41) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2013,11:31) abe Quote Please tell me, why Christ is not the Wisdom of God? good question. Indeed.  In 1 Cor 1:23, Christ is poetically referred to as “the wisdom of God”.  Paul was not saying that Jesus Christ is LITERALLY all the wise thoughts and knowledge that God has. It is a good reference back to Proverbs 8 though, where Christ is also poetically referred to as the wisdom of God.  No doubt Paul had this proverb in mind when he wrote 1 Cor 1:23. Mike, Proverbs 8 speaks of Wisdom, who is a female. kerwin would that mean that only women have wisdom

T,

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2013,06:03)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 04 2013,13:51) Mike, Proverbs 8 speaks of Wisdom, who is a female. No Kerwin, Proverbs 8 speaks of a person who is metaphorically called by the GRAMMATICALLY female gendered Hebrew word for “wisdom”. Don't confuse GRAMMATICAL gender with PHYSICAL gender. The following is from Wikipedia, concerning the Hebrew word for “spirit”, which is also female in GRAMMATICAL gender: If speakers of a particular language were to confuse grammatical gender with physical gender, they might then think of the Holy Spirit as male, female or of neither sex, but such confusion does not of course affect the reality of the gender or lack of gender of the Spirit. The same can be said for the female Hebrew word for “wisdom”.

Mike,

I understand that Wisdom is grammatically female but previously the same poet stated.

Proverbs 7:4
King James Version (KJV)

4 Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman:

look at verse 16 of chapter 8.

Proverbs 8:16
King James Version (KJV)

16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.

Princes do not rule by Jesus; they rule by God's Wisdom, as does Jesus, the Prince of peace.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2013,06:08)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2013,17:30) Hi Kerwin, “Spirit” is a feminine gender word in both Hebrew and Greek as well. Hi Ed, It is a female gendered word in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Syriac.  In the Greek language, “spirit” is neuter.  And in Latin, it is masculine gendered. I wonder what Kerwin thinks about 1 Cor 1:23-4, which is the verse Abe mentioned in the first place.  Is Paul calling Jesus a chick because he calls him the power and wisdom of God?

Mike,

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light.

[abe]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 04 2013,11:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,23:41) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2013,11:31) abe Quote Please tell me, why Christ is not the Wisdom of God? good question. Indeed.  In 1 Cor 1:23, Christ is poetically referred to as “the wisdom of God”.  Paul was not saying that Jesus Christ is LITERALLY all the wise thoughts and knowledge that God has. It is a good reference back to Proverbs 8 though, where Christ is also poetically referred to as the wisdom of God.  No doubt Paul had this proverb in mind when he wrote 1 Cor 1:23. Mike, Proverbs 8 speaks of Wisdom, who is a female.

Hi Kerwin,

Gal.3:26   For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

there is neither   male nor female:   for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Matt.22:30   For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Peace brother…

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 05 2013,00:40)

Mike, I understand that Wisdom is grammatically female but previously the same poet stated. Proverbs 7:4 King James Version (KJV) 4 Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman:

Kerwin, I believe that Proverbs 8 teaches about Jesus, and metaphorically calls him wisdom.

Judah and Israel were called “sisters” in scripture – with no reference to physical gender.  

And look at Exodus 26:3,
Five curtains are to be joined, 1  one to another, 2  and the other 3  five curtains are to be joined, one to another.

NETNotes for #2:
2 tn Heb “a woman to her sister,” this form of using nouns to express “one to another” is selected because “curtains” is a feminine noun.

The idea of “sister” and “kinsman” in Proverbs 7:4 is to……….. well here, I'll let NETNotes say it:

Prov 7:4
1 sn The metaphor is meant to signify that the disciple will be closely related to and familiar with wisdom and understanding, as close as to a sibling.  Wisdom will be personified in the next two chapters, and so referring to it as a sister in this chapter certainly prepares for that personification.

In other words, call wisdom your sister, because that's how close you should be to wisdom – like a blood relative.

I also believe that Paul was referring back to Proverbs 8 when he called Jesus “the wisdom of God”.

You don't have to share that view if you don't want to.

[mikeboll64]

Good points, Abe.

[abe]

Hi Mike,

Thanks.

Peace brother…

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 05 2013,17:40)

Mike, King James Version (KJV) 4 Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman:

Hi Kerwin,

I believe “wisdom” is the bride of Christ, which is God's “HolyCity”.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Quote (abe @ Aug. 05 2013,13:25)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 04 2013,11:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,23:41) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 04 2013,11:31) abe Quote Please tell me, why Christ is not the Wisdom of God? good question. Indeed.  In 1 Cor 1:23, Christ is poetically referred to as “the wisdom of God”.  Paul was not saying that Jesus Christ is LITERALLY all the wise thoughts and knowledge that God has. It is a good reference back to Proverbs 8 though, where Christ is also poetically referred to as the wisdom of God.  No doubt Paul had this proverb in mind when he wrote 1 Cor 1:23. Mike, Proverbs 8 speaks of Wisdom, who is a female. Hi Kerwin, Gal.3:26   For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. there is neither   male nor female:   for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Matt.22:30   For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. Peace brother…

Abe,

The poetry form of the adages in the book of wisdom call Wisdom a female because the Hebrew word for wisdom is feminine. Jesus is male. That is a sex change to those who choose to be consistent and hold Jesus is Wisdom and not that he is a prince that rules by it and a king that judges by it. There are also those that choose cherry pick what particular type of way they want to translate each part and so Wisdom becomes Jesus and the gender of both Wisdom and Jesus becomes irrelevant. I simply take it that is a poetic form and Wisdom is godly wisdom, which has no characteristic of gender.

Jesus is Wisdom in the same way God is Love.

[kerwin]

Ed,

Jesus has always known wisdom through the Spirit while the church is being taught wisdom by the same Spirit.

[Author]

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