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To All……..The word GOD is not just POWER, it is the POWER YOU TRUST IN, We say, our God , your God, their God, the God of this and the God of that, The term for God is NOT JUSt POWER, is HAs to incorporate TRUST, it like saying the word Go and Just using the letter G by it self, and expecting it to mean GO without the O, Same with the Term for GOD , a God is the power (YOU TRUST IN), not just a power alone , becasue anythng can be that, as i have told Mike before, even an Ant has power so can we say and ant is a God, NO of course not. But if i built and alter to an Ant and worsheped it and served it then it is a GOD to ME. Get it?, Therefore to me and Jesus there is no other GOD but the ONE and ONLY “TRUE” GOD, all other so-called Gods are FALSE Gods. According to Us and all other true believers. IMO
Mike if you want to talk about the ORIGiNAl Word for GOD, it is a Pictorial word, in orginal Hebrew and it is a symbol of an OX (strength) and a Shepperds STAFF, (meaning what they trusted in and leand on for guidence and support), You can not have a GOD with out those two elements included, So isolating Just part of the word (power) and saying it is the complete word is not correct, a God must include (BOTH )Parts, to be called a God. Go to the Jeff Benner wed site and get the original word for God and it is plainly shown there. Using a Greek word deffinition for God by Strongs, does not give the full meaning of a GOD as the HEBREW Does. IMO
pace and love to you all……………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 11 2013,21:23) To All……..The word GOD is not just POWER, it is the POWER YOU TRUST IN, We say, our God , your God, their God, the God of this and the God of that, The term for God is NOT JUSt POWER, is HAs to incorporate TRUST, it like saying the word Go and Just using the letter G by it self, and expecting it to mean GO without the O, Same with the Term for GOD , a God is the power (YOU TRUST IN), not just a power alone , becasue anythng can be that, as i have told Mike before, even an Ant has power so can we say and ant is a God, NO of course not. But if i built and alter to an Ant and worsheped it and served it then it is a GOD to ME. Get it?, Therefore to me and Jesus there is no other GOD but the ONE and ONLY “TRUE” GOD, all other so-called Gods are FALSE Gods. According to Us and all other true believers. IMO Mike if you want to talk about the ORIGiNAl Word for GOD, it is a Pictorial word, in orginal Hebrew and it is a symbol of an OX (strength) and a Shepperds STAFF, (meaning what they trusted in and leand on for guidence and support), You can not have a GOD with out those tow elements included, So icolating Just part of the word (power) and saying it is the complete word is not correct a God must include BOTH Parts to be called a God. God to the Jeff Benner wed site and get the original word for God and it is plainly shown there. Using a Greek word deffinition for God by Strongs, does not give the full meaning of a GOD as the HEBREW Does. IMO
pace and love to you all……………………………………gene
Gene,I hope Jeff Benner did a more thorough job of research that that. I ,an amateur, was able to trace El down to a word meaning twist and by implications power. Those same implications are applied to a ram and to God. A ram has power, he isn't power.
I do not know where the trust comes in the name El though it does come into the symbols for El.
Hi Mike and all,
I have limited data again so I have to be careful how many threads I go on/post on for a while. This will have to wait.
(It is like prepaid data and each website page clicked on uses up mbs).But just briefly: Mike, to a Christian there is only one God. Why can you not see that? Think about what exactly you are trying to prove and think about all of the scriptures including Jesus own words that there is only one true God.
Quote (kerwin @ July 11 2013,00:04) Mike, It is Strong's I used in tracing the word origins back to a word meaning twist who's implications is strength. That word's implication is used to describe a ram as well as the most high. It is used in both cases because it is a symbolism of both.
Okay………. what does that have to do with anything I've said about this subject thus far?A ram is a symbol of might, and so is a god……….. so what?
Different scholars disagree about the original root of “el”, but they all seem in agreement that the word “el” itself means “mighty (one)”.
Do you also agree with this definition?
Quote (abe @ July 11 2013,01:16) Do you believe the Son is in All?
No Abe,I don't personally believe the Son is in all. Is Jesus “in” the murderer WHILE he is committing the murder? I think not.
I believe the Son will come to that murderer at a later time if the murderer ever sincerely repents of his sinful acts.
Why, is there a scripture that says the Son is “in all”?
Quote (kerwin @ July 12 2013,05:40) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 11 2013,21:23) To All……..The word GOD is not just POWER, it is the POWER YOU TRUST IN, We say, our God , your God, their God, the God of this and the God of that, The term for God is NOT JUST POWER, is HAs to incorporate TRUST, it like saying the word Go and Just using the letter G by it self, and expecting it to mean GO without the O, Same with the Term for GOD , a God is the power (YOU TRUST IN), not just a power alone , becasue anythng can be that, as i have told Mike before, even an Ant has power so can we say and ant is a God, NO of course not. But if i built and alter to an Ant and worsheped it and served it then it is a GOD to ME. Get it?, Therefore to me and Jesus there is no other GOD but the ONE and ONLY “TRUE” GOD, all other so-called Gods are FALSE Gods. According to Us and all other true believers. IMO Mike if you want to talk about the ORIGiNAl Word for GOD, it is a Pictorial word, in orginal Hebrew and it is a symbol of an OX (strength) and a Shepperds STAFF, (meaning what they trusted in and leand on for guidence and support), You can not have a GOD with out those tow elements included, So icolating Just part of the word (power) and saying it is the complete word is not correct a God must include BOTH Parts to be called a God. God to the Jeff Benner wed site and get the original word for God and it is plainly shown there. Using a Greek word deffinition for God by Strongs, does not give the full meaning of a GOD as the HEBREW Does. IMO
pace and love to you all……………………………………gene
Gene,I hope Jeff Benner did a more thorough job of research that that. I ,an amateur, was able to trace El down to a word meaning twist and by implications power. Those same implications are applied to a ram and to God. A ram has power, he isn't power.
I do not know where the trust comes in the name El though it does come into the symbols for El.
Kerwin………Go to the Web site and check it our He has the compete original Pictorial letters symbols there, and you will see what i am saying. You can not have any God without both those meannings involved, Srength or ram or twist by themselves are not a meaning for a God. There was a reason both of those terms incorporated into the word for God. Strength or ram or twist, by it self is not a word for God , it is El-(ohim) not Just EL, and that word incoroprates both of those meanings. If you use the terms you are using anything with power can be a True God. And ndeed anything can be a God to the person making it their God, but they are not “TRUE” Gods they are “FALSE” Gods. except for the person TRUSTING in THEM, then they are a GOd to Him.The reason God said you shall have no other God besides Me is becasue people can make to themselves Gods as Mike and Pierre have made, alkinds of them, They can't even tell us how many they have, there are so many, that can fit their discriptions of Gods, but non of them are the “ONLY””TRUE” God. Notice they don't even talke about what Jesus said there are even deal with his words do they. Mike starts out trying to demish the word for God by saying that when God said there are no other Gods besides Him , he was not speaking “emhathically”, to Isreal but that simple is not true. Mike and Pierre need to tare down God own words to fit his own renditions for a true God into this, so he can make John 1:1 say Jesus was a God also. But our God said He is not a Man that he should lie or a son of man that he should repent, and as far as i know Jesus said he was a SON OF MAN. IMO
peace and lvoe to you and yuors…………………………gene
Quote (2besee @ July 11 2013,15:49) Mike, to a Christian there is only one God. Why can you not see that? Think about what exactly you are trying to prove and think about all of the scriptures including Jesus own words that there is only one true God.
2B,Since you don't have much data, I decided to write a LONG post explaining some scriptural teachings. There are no questions for you to answer. (All questions in this post are rhetorical, and intended only to make you think.)
I do hope you read the whole thing…….. and then challenge me on ANYTHING in this post that ISN'T scripturally accurate.
Also, know that I am not trying to get anyone to believe that Jehovah is not the only true God. I'm only trying to get people to align their understanding with the actual scriptures they say they adhere to.
If you seriously believe that there is only ONE god mentioned in the scriptures, then you are not really adhering to those scriptures.
I don't understand how people can take “for us, there is but one God” literally, and completely ignore, or explain away the part where Paul said there are MANY gods, both IN HEAVEN and on earth.
How can there be “many gods in heaven” if Jehovah is LITERALLY the ONLY god?
How can Jehovah be the God OF gods if there aren't any gods for Him to be the God OF?
How can He be the MOST HIGH God if there aren't any LESS HIGH gods?
How can He render judgment upon the gods of Egypt if they don't really exist? Can He “render judgment” on a man-made idol? Of course not. And speaking of the gods of Egypt, SOMEBODY turned wooden staffs into living snakes. SOMEBODY turned water into blood. SOMEBODY conjured up frogs out of thin air. These are all things that man cannot do. So WHO did those things for Pharaoh and the priests of Egypt? Perhaps it was the same exact “gods of Egypt” that Jehovah rendered judgment upon.
See 2B? See Abe? See Gene? See Ed? I'm not saying one single thing that I didn't learn from the scriptures themselves. I'm not a heretic who is trying to get people to WORSHIP other gods besides Jehovah. I am simply a man who continually reads the scriptures, and thinks it's about time we all come to terms with what those scriptures actually say, instead of twisting and adding things like “false gods” into those scriptures in an attempt to protect the scriptures from themselves, by keeping them strictly monotheistic and insisting they teach of only one god, when in fact they teach of MANY gods – of whom Jehovah is the highest, and of whom Jehovah is the God and Creator.
(Dang! That was a LONG sentence! That one was on par with the Apostle Paul's sentences!
)I am well aware of the scriptures that say “only true God”, and “no God beside me”, and “for us there is one God”. But I'm also aware of the scriptures that say “no other savior but Me”, and “only God is good”, and “you disciples know ALL things”, etc.
These are all emphatic statements. They are a way of placing one person on high by “exaggerating” a little. We know from the scriptures themselves that Jehovah is not LITERALLY the ONLY savior – even though He emphatically says He is. We know from scriptures that Jehovah is not LITERALLY the only “good” thing – even though Jesus emphatically says He is. We know that Jesus and his disciples did not LITERALLY know ALL things – even though it is emphatically said in scripture that they did.
Likewise, we know that Jehovah is not LITERALLY the ONLY god in existence, because scripture says He is the god OF other gods, and that He is the MOST HIGH god, and that He renders judgment on other gods.
About a third of the time other gods are mentioned in scripture, it is Jehovah Himself doing the talking. And He never once calls any PERSON a “false god”, or a “so-called god”. In Psalm 82, Jehovah rules in the assembly of gods, and passes judgment upon those OTHER gods for messing things up on earth. He Himself says, “I have called you gods, but you will die like men”.
And Jesus, after being accused of making himself out to be a god, doesn't deny it, but uses Psalm 82 to justify it by saying, in effect, “If God called these other ones gods, then why not the one He personally set aside as His very own and sent into the earth on this precious mission?”
According to Webster, a god is “any of various beings conceived of as supernatural, immortal, and having special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of nature”. So go read the book of Job. In the very first chapter, Satan demonstrated that he had power over people (Sabeans and Chaldeans), nature (winds and fire from heaven), and the affairs of people (look what he did to Job himself). All this, AND he is called a god by Paul in 2 Cor 4:4.
And what's more, Satan is called a god by Jehovah Himself in 2 Kings 1. Read that chapter and notice that Jehovah doesn't ever imply that Satan is NOT a god. Nor does He imply that Satan is a FALSE god. Instead, Jehovah is more upset that Ahaziah would turn to Satan for a glimpse of the future than to Himself.
Instead of saying Satan is a false god, Jehovah asks Ahaziah if it is because there ISN'T a god in Israel that he seeks advice from this other god. And there is no indication that Satan COULDN'T HAVE given Ahaziah the answers he was seeking. Obviously, if the god of Ekron wasn't telling the future accurately, no one would go there seeking his advice or knowledge, right? Plus, we have a scriptural example of a demon who knew the future in Acts 16:16-19. Again, if the spirit in Acts wasn't predicting the future accurately, that girl's owners would have never become rich off of her.
And what about 2 Kings 3? It reveals a story about when Jehovah handed a great victory to His nation Israel. But read verses 26 and 27: 26 When the king of Moab saw that the battle had gone against him, he took with him seven hundred swordsmen to break through to the king of Edom, but they failed. 27 Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. The wrath against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land.
How are we to understand this? Surely the King of Moab sacrificed his son to his god Chemosh, and not to Jehovah, right? So who then, after accepting this HUMAN sacrifice, brought wrath down upon the Israelites – sending them fleeing to their own land? Did Jehovah accept a human sacrifice from the king of Moab, and then bring wrath down upon the very people He had just provided a victory for? Not likely. NETNotes says, Some suggest that the original source identified Chemosh the Moabite god as the subject and that his name was later suppressed by a conscientious scribe………
Whether or not the original source actually identified Chemosh, he seems the ONLY logical person to whom the king of Moab would sacrifice his son, right? And since that is the case, Chemosh is the ONLY logical source of the wrath against the Israelites after their victory.
What? You think i
t strange that Jehovah would allow one of the lesser gods He created to bring wrath upon His own beloved? Well then, read Job again, and refresh your memory about the calamities Jehovah allowed Satan to bring upon His faithful and humble servant Job. Also remember Jesus' words: “Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat.”“For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.”
All these things are happening by the hand of spirit beings, not men. (Eph 6:12) And Jehovah will allow them to happen, just as He allowed Satan to destroy Job, and Chemosh to bring wrath upon Israel. We must all be tried and refined by fire, and sometimes the fire is brought by these lesser gods – with Jehovah's permission. (That should be obvious, since none of them could do a thing without Jehovah allowing it, right?)
I truly hope you read this entire post, and learned a thing or two. At the very least, I hope you learned that I have done nothing but relate the things I've learned directly from the scriptures themselves. I am not a heretic or a false teacher, 2B. I am just a man who actually BELIEVES what the scriptures clearly teach.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2013,03:58) Quote (kerwin @ July 11 2013,00:04) Mike, It is Strong's I used in tracing the word origins back to a word meaning twist who's implications is strength. That word's implication is used to describe a ram as well as the most high. It is used in both cases because it is a symbolism of both.
Okay………. what does that have to do with anything I've said about this subject thus far?A ram is a symbol of might, and so is a god……….. so what?
Different scholars disagree about the original root of “el”, but they all seem in agreement that the word “el” itself means “mighty (one)”.
Do you also agree with this definition?
Mike,I do disagree as El means God in English and Theos in Koine Greek. Strength is attribute he is called by. He is not strength.
Gene,
El is the singular Elohim. I believe Elohim is used for God to represent that he is not only a god but god magnified. Both names are written in Scripture.
Quote (kerwin @ July 11 2013,18:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2013,03:58) Different scholars disagree about the original root of “el”, but they all seem in agreement that the word “el” itself means “mighty (one)”.
Do you also agree with this definition?
Mike,I do disagree as El means God in English and Theos in Koine Greek. Strength is attribute he is called by. He is not strength.
The word “el” means “mighty”, and so refers to ONE WHO IS “mighty”.NETNotes:
1) god, god-like one, mighty oneStrong:
might(-y one)TWOT:
mighty oneG/K Concordance:
mighty oneI guess it doesn't really matter if you agree or not, does it?
Quote (kerwin @ July 11 2013,18:31) Gene, El is the singular Elohim. I believe Elohim is used for God to represent that he is not only a god but god magnified. Both names are written in Scripture.
Some believe that “el” has nothing to do with “elohim”, and that “elohim” was derived as the plural of “eloah” – which itself is unrelated to “el”.Also, consider:
1 Kings 11:33
I will do this because they have forsaken me and worshiped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Molek the god of the Ammonites, and have not walked in obedience to me, nor done what is right in my eyes, nor kept my decrees and laws as David, Solomon’s father, did.All three of these SINGULAR gods are referred to with the PLURAL word “elohim” in this verse. There are other examples as well, so “elohim” is not exclusively used for Jehovah.
Mike
i does not matter what EL or Elohim or god ,or theos LOOK IN SCRIPTURES AND SEE THAT GOD ALMIGHTY JEHOVAH NEVER LEAVE HIS NAME WITHOUT STIPULATING HIS WORKS (REPUTATIONS IN DISTINCTION )OR SAME OF HIS UNIQUE WORK, AND THAT HIS THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN ALL OTHER GODS OF ANY NAME OR KIND
Mike……What about 2Ths2, that describes people believing the LIE about a man sitting in the temple of GOD, displaying himself as a God. Can we then according to you believe that this person is a real God, but scripture say God would send to them who love not the truth a strong DELUSION in order for them to believe the “LIE”. Now who do you think this person is, that is now siting in the temple of God , is it not Jesus, and is he not being DESPLAYED AS A GOD, by you and others who believe in all kinds of Gods. And why will Jesus himself abolish this Lie (the false image of him being a God) , at his return by his very own words?
God himself said he looked for other God and found none, he ask the question , is ther any other God beside him, and he answered it by say he knew of none. Obviously he meant A TRUE GOD, not the false
Gods people have created. Do you even know what the word IDOLATRY even means. If you believe in any Other GOD, but the one and only true GOD, you are an IDOLARTY, so yes a person can have another God in there life, he can create any kind of God he wants to, but he or she is an IDOLATER and a breaker of GOds commandment , “thou shall have “NO” other GOD beside ME , you shall not bow down to them nor obey them.So yes we can make anything into a GOD , but the question is are they “TRUE GODS” no because there is “ONLY” ( which means no other) “TRUE” ( meaning Real) GOD, so if there is ONLY ONE TRUE , then all others are FALSE, and that include Jesus being displayed as a GOD, by you and all Preexistence and Trinitarians, who believe in more than one true God. Mike you need to make a word study on what an IDOLATER is, seeing you preach many true Gods. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 11 2013,14:12) Quote (abe @ July 11 2013,01:16) Do you believe the Son is in All?
No Abe,I don't personally believe the Son is in all. Is Jesus “in” the murderer WHILE he is committing the murder? I think not.
I believe the Son will come to that murderer at a later time if the murderer ever sincerely repents of his sinful acts.
Why, is there a scripture that says the Son is “in all”?
Hi Mike,Col.1:15who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 for *In* him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created Through him, and *unto(into)* him;
17 and he is before all things, and *In* him all things consist.
for *In* him were all things created,
(QUOTE)
I don't personally believe the Son is in all.Col.3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and *in all*.
Rom.6:3 Do you not Know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized *Into* his death?
Col.1:21-22 And you, being in time past alienated and enemies in your mind in your evil works, yet now hath he reconciled *in* the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and without blemish and unreproveable before him:
he reconciled *in* the body of his Flesh through Death,
New Heavens and a New Earth??
Peace brother……..
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2013,07:14) Quote (kerwin @ July 11 2013,18:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2013,03:58) Different scholars disagree about the original root of “el”, but they all seem in agreement that the word “el” itself means “mighty (one)”.
Do you also agree with this definition?
Mike,I do disagree as El means God in English and Theos in Koine Greek. Strength is attribute he is called by. He is not strength.
The word “el” means “mighty”, and so refers to ONE WHO IS “mighty”.NETNotes:
1) god, god-like one, mighty oneStrong:
might(-y one)TWOT:
mighty oneG/K Concordance:
mighty oneI guess it doesn't really matter if you agree or not, does it?
Mike,Once again translated to theos in Koine Greek. Does theos have equivalent roots? I have heard but not confirmed they are supplicate, implore.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2013,07:17) Quote (kerwin @ July 11 2013,18:31) Gene, El is the singular Elohim. I believe Elohim is used for God to represent that he is not only a god but god magnified. Both names are written in Scripture.
Some believe that “el” has nothing to do with “elohim”, and that “elohim” was derived as the plural of “eloah” – which itself is unrelated to “el”.Also, consider:
1 Kings 11:33
I will do this because they have forsaken me and worshiped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Molek the god of the Ammonites, and have not walked in obedience to me, nor done what is right in my eyes, nor kept my decrees and laws as David, Solomon’s father, did.All three of these SINGULAR gods are referred to with the PLURAL word “elohim” in this verse. There are other examples as well, so “elohim” is not exclusively used for Jehovah.
Mike,They may be right as El is also a name but all three seem to be translated god; at least at times.
biblesuite.com says “eloah” is prol. from el. I have no sound idea what prol. abbreviates.
Mike,
It seems those Gods were in some manner the chief deity of those people. Each one being a god magnified to the people mentioned.
kerwin
i does not matter what EL or Elohim or god ,or theos LOOK IN SCRIPTURES AND SEE THAT GOD ALMIGHTY JEHOVAH NEVER LEAVE HIS NAME WITHOUT STIPULATING HIS WORKS (REPUTATIONS IN DISTINCTION )OR SAME OF HIS UNIQUE WORK, AND THAT HIS THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN ALL OTHER GODS OF ANY NAME OR KIND .
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