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Then in Exodus 20:8–11 God commanded the Israelites to work six literal “days” and rest on the seventh because He created in six “days” (using the same Hebrew word).
There is no biblical or scientific reason to be ashamed of believing in a recent six-day creation.
There is no justification for forcing these days to be 24 hours long for the following reasons.
- Sometimes a day is 12 hours.
- A day to God is like a thousand years. Do not forget this.
- Man was not created when the vast majority of these days were happening.
- According to you, the sun was not even around either.
- Mars has days too. But a different length.
- God dwells in heaven. So he is not subject to a sun and earth relationship when creating the cosmos.
- God is not a man.
Seven good reasons Mike.
Carmel: ONLY Genesis 1:1 says: 1In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. ….
GENESIS 1:2 IS NOT A BEGINNING IT IS THE STATE OF THE EARTH AFTER THE BEGINNING OF GENESIS 1:1
Exodus 31:15-17… For six days work may be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of complete rest… for in six days the LORD made the heaven and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.
You:Carmel, please tell us the two things in the passage above that Yahweh Himself said He made within a six day period.
HOW CAN I ANSWER A QUESTION NOT IN RELATION TO WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS!
Read again in PLAIN SIMPLE CLEAR ENGLISH:
ONLY Genesis 1:1 says: 1In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. ….
IN EXODUS GOD IN SIX DAYS
MADE
HEAVEN AND EARTH,
HE DID NOT CREATE THEM!
THEY WERE ALREADY CREATED IN Genesis 1:1!
READ GENESIS 1:1 AGAIN AND THERE’S NO MENTION OF THE WORD
CREATE
ALL WERE MADE!
EVEN THE MAN WAS MADE IN GENESIS 1:26!
NOW IN
GENESIS 1:27
GOD CREATED THE MAN!
NOW IN MY POST, I TOLD YOU
Mike hereunder is the scriptures to be analyzed regarding the word
“MADE/MAKE” WHICH INCLUDE EXODUS 20 and EXODUS 31
BUT NO NOVEL FOR NOW, THAT WILL BE IN THE NEXT POST!
IN THE MEANTIME HAVE A GO YOURSELF AND TRY TO SEE WHAT I SEE!
AT LEAST I DON’T HAVE TO POST A NOVEL!
Exodusn20:11 For in six days the Lord
made heaven and earth,…..
Exodus 31:17 For in six days the Lord
made heaven and earth,…..
Genesis 1:26 And he said:
Let us make man
to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over
the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air,
and the beasts, and the whole earth,
and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth.
Genesis 1:27And God created man
to his own image: to the image of God he created him:
male and female he created them.
And God blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it,
and rule over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and all living creatures that move upon the earth.
MIKE Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 1:27 are
TWO DIFFERENT PROCESSES!
Genesis 2:7 God first formed Man, HE DIDN’T CREAT HIM, then He gave him HIs spirit and
MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL! HE DIDN’T CREATE HIM EITHER!
THUS, TWO DIFFERENT PROCESSES WHICH MATCH GENESIS 1:26. 1:27
TO CREATE ONLY EX NIHILLO:
LIKE GENESIS 1: 1
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel
Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
God could have made/created man by speaking, without using dust from the earth. He did so to show/instruct us that we are DEPENDENT ON HIS CREATIVE BREATH OF LIFE.
You know what I mean.Hi Mike,
Back to my post; I wasn’t clear enough by my question!
I should have asked you:
HOW CAN I ANSWER A QUESTION NOT IN RELATION TO GENESIS?
WE ARE DISCUSSING GENESIS NOT EXODUS!
EXODUS DOES NOT SAY:
GOD CREATED HEAVEN AND EARTH!BUT
for in six days the LORD made the heaven and the earth,
Also, Genesis is clear and in verse 3, it says: …………and there was evening and morning one day.
Thus Genesis 1:3 is the first day! Not before!
From this particular day, GOD STARTED TO MAKE HEAVEN AND EARTH!
Hi Berean,
You: God could have made/created man by speaking,
without using dust from the earth.
He did so to show/instruct us that we are DEPENDENT ON HIS CREATIVE BREATH OF LIFE.
You know what I mean.ME: Yes, I agree, but
WHY ARE WE DEPENDENT ON HIS CREATIVE BREATH OF LIFE?
OBVIOUS; FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT WE IN ACTUAL FACT WERE IN THE TRUTH
DUST OF THE EARTH! WITHOUT LIFE, THE STATE ADAM WAS FORMED IN!
NOW, THE ONLY LIFE WE HUMANS OF EARTH, CURSED, HAD WAS PRECISELY
“THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE,
THE FACT THAT HE WAS SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD! Rev.13:8
Just reflect Berean, why Jesus, was slain like a lamb, PRECISELY FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD?
HE WAS SLAIN BECAUSE THE PROCESS OF OUR WORLD WAS WITHIN THE CONCEPT OF RESTORATION!
BY AND ALL IN JESUS!
THE FACT THAT IN GENESIS 1:3 GOD SAID
LET BE LIGHT MADE!
NOW BEREAN, READ what John clearly said:
John1:4 In him was LIFE,
and the life was
the LIGHT of men.
Reflect: Jesus, THE TRUE LIGHT, was slain from the beginning of the world!
God in Genesis 1:3 initiated His work, THE BEGINNING OF THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF THIS WORLD, AND SAID:
LET BE LIGHT MADE!
NOW THIS LIGHT WAS PRECISELY THE LIFE OF THE PROCESS OF MAN IN FLESH, BY
“THE WORD” MADE FLESH! directly from the Father’s mouth!
ALSO:
Malachi 2:10 did not refer to the HUMAN IN FLESH AND BLOOD TO HAVE
ONE FATHER IN GOD THE FATHER AS HE IS SPIRIT, HE REFERRED TO ONE FATHER OF OUR SOULS! THE FACT THAT SOULS ARE CREATED! NOT MADE, OR FORMED!
NOW IF WE TAKE MALACHI AS ONE FATHER FOR THE HUMAN RACE IN FLESH AND BLOOD, THERE’S ONLY
ONE FATHER OF THE HUMAN RACE AND THAT IS
JESUS “THE WORD” PURPOSELY MADE FLESH, NOT CREATED! CONFIRMED BY JESUS IN
John17:2 As thou hast given him power OVER ALL FLESH,
that he may give ETERNAL LIFE to ALL whom thou hast given him.
GOD THE FATHER WAS NOT IN THE POSITION TO GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO THE HUMAN RACE AS
HE COULD NOT DIE!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Carmel
You
God in Genesis 1:3 initiated His work, THE BEGINNING OF THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF THIS WORLD, AND SAID:
LET BE LIGHT MADE!
Me
In my opinion according to Genesis 1:1
God tells us:
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.What do we actually see in verse 2?
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.(Plural)
We see a mass of waters (plural)👉the future waters above and the waters below.
We do not see the earth element, but it is there, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WATERS. as Peter says:👇
For they willfully ignore this, that by the word of God there once existed heavens, and an earth DRAWN UP FROM THE WATERS, and subsisted IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WATERS,… (Darby Bible)THEREFORE THE FIRST STEP IN THE CREATION PROCESS IS THE HEAVEN AND EARTH AND NOT LIGHT.
AND THAT MEANS IN RELATION TO THE CREATION OF MAN THAT MATTER (THE BODY) IS NEEDED FOR THE SPIRIT OF LIFE TO MAKE A LIVING BEING OR A LIVING SOUL.
BODY AND SPIRIT/BREATH OF LIFE PRODUCES A LIVING BEING
WITHOUT A BODY, THE HUMAN BEING DOES NOT EXIST
OR IN OTHER WORDS GOD’S BREATH OF LIFE CANNOT SUPPORT A HUMAN BEING WHO HAS NO BODY.
TO RETURN TO GENESIS 1
FIRST
WATERS AND EARTH SO THAT THESE TWO ELEMENTS CAN BECOME “ONE EARTH” PRODUCING LIFE (FRUIT TREES AND HERBS) AND HAPPINESS FOR HUMANITY.God bless
Proclaimer: First problem we have here is day and night. If it is always 24 hours, then there is no time for night in the verses where both day and night are mentioned.
Fortunately – since I’m well aware of how you operate and try to use tricky-talk to force an argument that is moot – I made sure I worded it to include both 12 and 24 hour days, right? That’s not to say that Dr. Terry Mortenson spoke erroneously – he didn’t. For example, when God tells Noah that it will rain for “forty days and forty nights”, God is still talking about 40 literal 24-hour days, right? He is just breaking those literal 24-hour days into a 12 hour daylight portion and a 12 hour nighttime portion. Surely you don’t think God is saying that it will rain for the 12 hours of daylight, then stop for the 12 hours of nighttime, and then rain again for the 12 hours of daylight, right? No, He was talking about 40 literal 24-hour periods, which each include a day part and a night part.
So Dr. Terry Mortenson is still absolutely correct in his statement. But that is besides the point anyway, since I made dang sure that I didn’t give you the same wiggle room to waste time on a moot point that Dr. Terry Mortenson did. In all fairness, Dr. Terry Mortenson assumed that those who would read his statement were honest, truth-seeking individuals – not childish juvenile delinquents who will keep on insisting that the grass is blue and the sky is green – no matter how utterly ridiculous and unintelligent it makes them look to rational people. In other words, Dr. Terry Mortenson has never had to deal with you. I have, and therefore I made sure to state this scriptural fact as follows:
Any time in the entire Bible that God is talking to humans about days and includes a specific NUMBER, He is talking about either 12 or 24 hour days… WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
I’ve encouraged you to prove me wrong – but you can’t. So will you now do what any honest person would do, and openly acknowledge the truth of my blue statement above? Thanks.
Proclaimer: But a day on Mars is… a different amount of our hours.
Assumes facts not in evidence. It’s therefore stricken from the record.
Proclaimer: …when it is talking about us and our days here… we have 2 options, 12 or 24 hours…
Let the record show that the defendant has acknowledged the plaintiff’s claim that “any time in the Bible that God talks to humans about days and includes a specific NUMBER, He is always talking about literal 12 or 24 hour days. No exceptions.”
Proclaimer: But we know that a day to God is LIKE a thousand years.
Asked and answered… numerous times. It matters not how God experiences days. It only matters what God means when He uses the word “day(s)” – WITH A NUMBER – to human beings. And the evidence shows very clearly that God always, and without exception, means literal 12 or 24 hour days.
This particular statement wasn’t even made by God, and therefore has no bearing on this dispute about what God means when HE talks to human beings about “day(s)”, and includes a number.
The court will find you in contempt if you attempt to bring this irrelevant metaphorical statement up again in this proceeding. It is so ordered.
Assumes facts not in evidence. It’s therefore stricken from the record.
Bwahahaha!
Delete truth you don’t like and what is left must be the truth.
Asked and answered… numerous times. It matters not how God experiences days. It only matters what God means when He uses the word “day(s)” – WITH A NUMBER – to human beings.
You can’t impose your standard units of time back to when God created the universe. You have no scientific or biblical precedent for doing so. If the scripture says that a thousand years is like a day to God, then when God creates in 6 DAYS, then that is 6 x this very long period overall, but divided into 6 stages. That is all you can conclude here.
You either believe what Peter said or you don’t.
“But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day” (2 Peter 3:8).
Worse, you haven’t even forgotten. You are simply ignoring it because it doesn’t fit with your view. That is not how a child of God should act. Blocking out light is foolish.
I win this point Mike, because I have provided a clear scripture that you are trying to ignore or remove from the evidence. But you cannot remove it because it is scripture and it is defining what a day is to God and we know that God created most things before man, thus you cannot impose man’s limited experience to an eternal God.
HE talks to human beings about “day(s)”, and includes a number.
I see, so God should have said that he created the earth in 6 epochs with each epoch being exactly 6,888,222,444,555,555,777 cycles of our earth sun measurement because it matters to God that he communicates this in hours or earth sun cycles.
And when the word ‘day’ is used, because it should be one value of 24 hours, we now have to create a different word for day minus night. Perhaps we call it light day because we need to hold to a day always equaling 24 hours, thus we now need a different term for days that do not equal 24 hours.
But if you were reasonable, you would just conclude that the word day is dependent on the context. Suffice to say, it is a stage that can have different values of time. But for us, it is mostly 12 or 24 hours because they are the most common stages for us by far. But for God, a day to him is like a thousand years. You cannot change this truth.
And what about when scripture says that a peace covenant will be made for a week. This must be exactly 24 x 7 hours? It cannot mean 7 years or other interpretations right? Because there’s no justification according to Mike.
So Mike. I’ll write your sermon for you. ‘Above all brothers, we must speak in 24 hour allotments, anything else of of the devil’.
Proclaimer: His time is not our time. His ways are not our ways. He is not a man.
Agreed. For example, it is possible for God to speak to humans in a language that the humans don’t understand. Heck, God to speak to you in ALL of the languages that have ever been spoken all at once if He wanted to. But what good would it do you if you couldn’t understand Him?
1 Corinthians 14:6-9… Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? … Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.
Are you able to understand this concept, Proclaimer? What good does it do God to tell us something that He wants us to know, but uses words (or meanings of words) that we don’t know? The following is a serious question for you – so please answer it directly and honestly:
Does it make sense to you that if God wanted humans to know that He created the heaven and the earth over a period of billions of years, He’d tell them that He created them in six days?
You either believe what Peter said or you don’t.
“But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day” (2 Peter 3:8).
Proclaimer
Let me tell you that you are OUT OF CONTEXT with this verse of Peter, which you make a hobbyhorse to try to prove to us in fact that God created by evolution. And that’s where it’s wrong Proclaimer, you make God lie in this story. But God is not a man to lie.
God created the heavens and the earth first. Then terraformed the planet for life.
Okay Mike. So you want to delete things as evidence to help your case.
I don’t need to delete anything because I am confident that any scripture will agree with the truth.
I let the truth speak. I’m not interested in manipulating the truth to skew the argument toward my own ignorance.
But let’s play your little game for a bit and delete evidence that you think should not be admissible.
Let’s remove Genesis 1:1 from the record as you argue against God creating the heavens and the earth even before the first day concludes. Now read.
1: Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
2 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 3 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 4 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.Do you see the problem Mike?
How did the earth get there?
You see, the heavens and earth had to be created first as I have stated. If God started his creative process over the surface of a planet, then how did the planet get there? Who created the planet? In your view, you open the door to God being a mere life-form that terraforms earth with the earth having some other origin.
But you need to understand that God created both the heavens and the earth before his Spirit hovered over the deep.
You cannot argue against this. So you must conclude then that God created the heavens and the earth. And then made this formless planet a habitation for life. This is the way to read Genesis.
Proclaimer: Now let’s imagine my name is John Britten and I created a motorbike including all the parts myself.
Imagine just before race day, I turn on the lights and say, “let there be light”. Then I said, that I created this motorbike. Would that mean that I created the bike at that moment because I mentioned it then?
Another analogy? Swell. 🙄 Okay, now add in the different NUMBERED days of the creation of the motorbike and see how your analogy works. Here, I’ll help you out…
In the beginning John created a motorbike. The bike was without form – just an engine and a big pile of raw materials on the dirt floor of his very dark shop. John said, “Let there be light”, and manufactured a ceiling light and wiring from the raw materials to allow him to see in the dark shop. He worked from evening to morning. This was day one.
And John said, “Let there be a frame to separate the engine from the dirt floor.” And John manufactured a frame from scratch using the raw materials on the floor of his shop. He worked from evening to morning. This was the second day.
And John said, “Let the raw materials on the dirt floor be assembled into the components of the motorbike.” And John manufactured motorcycle components out of raw materials on the dirt floor of his shop. He worked from evening to morning. This was the third day.
And John said, “Let the bike have headlights and tail-lights and side running lights.” So John manufactured two great lights from the raw materials on the floor – the greater to illuminate the dark roads ahead of him, and the lesser to illuminate the back of the bike and let people know he was there, or that he was hitting the brakes. John placed those lights in the frame he made to separate the engine from the dirt floor. John also made the side running lights. He worked from evening to morning. This was the fourth day.
Do I need to continue – or do you get the gist? The language makes it clear that John’s head and tail lights weren’t already existing – as if they were already in the frame, and the smoke from the welder finally cleared out enough for him to see the lights. No… the language that John MADE those lights and PLACED them in the frame on the fourth day makes it abundantly clear that they didn’t exist UNTIL he made them ON that fourth day.
It is the same with the sun, moon, and stars. The scriptures clearly say that God MADE the lights and PLACED them in the firmament of the heaven ON THE FOURTH DAY.
By the way, what do you think God “cleared the atmosphere” OF anyway? What was blocking those lights before the fourth day, where did that substance come from, how did God remove it – and how were the plants able to survive during the “billion year period” of “day three” before God “cleared the atmosphere” so the sun could hit them?
Proclaimer, is it even remotely possible that God created the heaven, the earth, the sea and everything in them in the manner, order, and timeframe that the Bible tells us He did? 😉
Proclaimer: How long would a thousand years be to your mind? A really long time is what it is saying.
Apparently, creation took and even longer time for God… orders of magnitude longer than a thousand years would take for us.
There are one million thousands in one billion. So if it took God 14 billion years to create the heaven and earth – and a thousand years to us is like a day for God – God was creating for HIS equivalent of 14 MILLION DAYS – or 38,360 “God Years”!
No wonder He needed a day of rest after that! 😂🤣😅
Give it up, Proclaimer. You became the petulant child insisting the sky is green and the grass is blue months ago with the Isaiah “circle of the earth” discussion. You have since lost any resemblance to a rational, honest man. You’ve become the punchline that you said I was. Project much?
Proclaimer: There is no justification for forcing these days to be 24 hours long for the following reasons.
Sometimes a day is 12 hours.A day to God is like a thousand years. Do not forget this.- Man was not created when the vast majority of these days were happening.
According to you, the sun was not even around either.Mars has days too. But a different length.God dwells in heaven. So he is not subject to a sun and earth relationship when creating the cosmos.God is not a man.
Seven good reasons Mike.
I’ve struck the six that have already either been addressed, or shown to not have any bearing whatsoever on this discussion.
As for #3… from the beginning of creation until man arrived on the scene was only five days – as Adam was created on the sixth day. So out of the 2,190,000 days (6000 years) that have passed since the beginning of creation, mankind missed five of them.
You said there’s no justification that these are 24 hour days. But tell us, Proclaimer… what exactly is YOUR justification for INSISTING that they CAN’T POSSIBLY be literal 24 hour days.
Fortunately – since I’m well aware of how you operate and try to use tricky-talk to force an argument that is moot – I made sure I worded it to include both 12 and 24 hour days, right? That’s not to say that Dr. Terry Mortenson spoke erroneously – he didn’t. For example, when God tells Noah that it will rain for “forty days and forty nights”, God is still talking about 40 literal 24-hour days, right?
You missed the point. So here is the point again. It is simple.
The length of a day changes based on the context. You already agree with this by mentioning earlier that there are two different lengths based on day. That is, a day (24 hours) vs a day (12 hours) and night (12 hours) or thereabouts.
Now all you have to do is understand what a day to God is, and you have the answer. Apostle Peter can help you with this. He actually addresses the very subject of what a day to God is. Read it, study it, and believe it.
Further, just because God’s days are mentioned, this doesn’t change the length of those days when it is later communicated to man. As you know full well, most of these days happened before man even existed. And you probably believe that you can’t change the past.
So there you have it. A day to God before man is still a day to God and not man’s version of a day. In other-words, it is a very long time. You shouldn’t forget this or ignore it. God is not like us. He is not a man. And do not shun the scriptures. That never ends well.
Asked and answered… numerous times. It matters not how God experiences days. It only matters what God means when He uses the word “day(s)” – WITH A NUMBER – to human beings.
That doesn’t change how God experiences a day. And why would it be like a day we experience which is directed by the sun earth cycle. This is God we are talking about. He existed before man and creation. So his days and his ways are not ours obviously. Multiple times scripture tells you this.
You said there’s no justification that these are 24 hour days. But tell us, Proclaimer… what exactly is YOUR justification for INSISTING that they CAN’T POSSIBLY be literal 24 hour days.
I’m not putting any specific time period on how God experiences a day. Just simply pointing out that they are much bigger than our whole lifetime while here in the body, because that is written. So I’m sticking with the scriptures.
I’ve struck the six that have already either been addressed, or shown to not have any bearing whatsoever on this discussion.
These points still stand. Addressing something doesn’t equal debunking something. These are good points and you have failed to disprove these facts.
Take point 1) for example. When there is a day and night, I assume that is 12 or so hours each. The 24 hours is split between day and night. But other mentions of day in scripture is 24 hours. So that is two meaning right there. And while you argue against this basic fact, your explanation actually acknowledges this is actually fact. So clearly then, a day is subjective and dependent on the context. If you deny that because it doesn’t line up with your previous statements, then you are delusional. And the thing about delusion is that others often can see it clearly. Just like that person who went on X-Factor and thought he could win the competition, then gets surprised when the judges laugh at him. Delusion is often clear for others to see.
Mike.
Ask yourself why we are told that a day to God is like a millennia when the only time in scripture that God and days are referenced together without man is in Genesis, (that I know of). If what you say is true, (of course it is not) then why does Peter even address this? What is he referencing exactly when he says that a day to God is like a thousand years?
Further, who created the earth if you start Genesis with the Spirit of God hovering over the deep. Why? Because you have rejected the idea that God created the heavens and earth before that. By doing that, your argument addresses a being who started off with a watery planet. So who created the planet then according to you, if God didn’t create the heavens and earth at this point? If you say God did create the planet before hovering over the deep, then you have to concede that he created the heavens too and even before the earth.
I think you should just concede this point Mike. If you fight it, you will look delusional and probably get caught in your own craftiness eventually as well. It won’t end well for you. Save yourself the slowly drawn out embarrassment and pain now.
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