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kerwin.
As you can see, I have not mastered the ability to put in the quote, and then answer. So I hope you can grasp my feeble attempt to do so, and that you can make sense of what I posted.Jerry.
kerwin, I think I have figured out how to use the “quote” function. See if this works.
Kerwin, I'll do my best to try and explain my understanding.
Quote Are you stating that Jesus is both the creator and destroyer of creation? If so then I fail how that fits the context of the verses from Revelations you mention. I am saying that Jesus, by the power of God, is the creator, the beginner and finisher (not destroyer) of creation. He, Jesus, is the alpha and omega, the first created (Rev.3:14 'Now this is saying the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, and God's Creative Original:) also (Col.1:15 Who is the Image of the invisible God, Firstborn of every creature,). That is why He is called the alpha…the beginning.
And the last, the omega, when creation is completed, that is called the consummation, referred to in 1Cor.15:24-28 (24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)
So when the creation is completed, by Jesus, and He hands over the kingdom to His Father (God), that is why He (Jesus) is referred to as the omega, the last (finisher).[/QUOTE] Are you stating that Jesus was the first individual created and the last individual to exist in creation?
Yes, He was the first, original, creation (scriptures quoted above). But He was not the last to exist, He was the finisher, the completed, creation. (scripture also above).
Now after creation is complete, we will have been perfected, by God, and will be forever with Him, joint heirs with Christ in eternity. (Ro.8:17-21) 17 Yet if children, enjoyers also of an allotment, enjoyers, indeed, of an allotment from God, yet joint enjoyers of Christ's allotment, if so be that we are suffering together, that we should be glorified together also.
18 For I am reckoning that the sufferings of the current era do not deserve the glory about to be revealed for us.
19 For the premonition of the creation is awaiting the unveiling of the sons of God.
20 For to vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who subjects it, in expectation
21 that the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.This is my understanding of scripture, I am not infallable, prone to error as anyone else, but what I presently believe.
God Bless, Jerry.
Choosenone,
So, you are calling both the new and old creations one creation. I can see that argument. Thank you.
Choosenone,
Place the word quote in “[]”'s before the words you wish to quote and /quote in “[]” after the words you wish to quote. You were close as you just had the order reversed.
I usually write the source the quotes attributed to and then either the words “wrote” or “reads” just before I quote. There is a more official way to do it but I do not know how.
Choosenone,
Is that also your understanding of Alpha and Omega which are the first and last letters respectively of the set known as the Greek Alphabet?
Quote (kerwin @ April 06 2010,23:03) Choosenone, Is that also your understanding of Alpha and Omega which are the first and last letters respectively of the set known as the Greek Alphabet?
kerwin.
I'm not sure I understand your question, I think I have answered what is my understanding in my previous posts.
If not, let me know specifically which part, and I will try again.Blessings, Jerry.
Quote (chosenone @ April 07 2010,03:13) Quote (kerwin @ April 06 2010,23:03) Choosenone, Is that also your understanding of Alpha and Omega which are the first and last letters respectively of the set known as the Greek Alphabet?
kerwin.
I'm not sure I understand your question, I think I have answered what is my understanding in my previous posts.
If not, let me know specifically which part, and I will try again.
Blessings, Jerry.
Choosenone,I am just checking to see if I understand you correctly and you believe the different clause in “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Origin and the Consummation.” are synonyms of one another.
In other words “Alpha and the Omega” is equivalent to the “First and the Last” and is also equivalent to “Origin and the Consummation”.
Thank you.
Hi kerwin.
Quote In other words “Alpha and the Omega” is equivalent to the “First and the Last” and is also equivalent to “Origin and the Consummation”.
Yes, you have quoted correctly what I believe, thank you.God Bless, Jerry.
Quote (chosenone @ April 07 2010,13:11) Hi kerwin. Quote In other words “Alpha and the Omega” is equivalent to the “First and the Last” and is also equivalent to “Origin and the Consummation”.
Yes, you have quoted correctly what I believe, thank you.God Bless, Jerry.
You are welcome.I wanted to reinstate my beliefs on the matter which is to say that Jesus is stating he is the one and only Anointed One of God.
Jesus was certainly conceived!
He is the biological offspring of Joseph and Mary!
This conception occurred through the power of the Holy Spirit, for Mary and Joseph had not yet been together.
Matthew teaches us that Jesus was indeed the offspring of Joseph.
1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham: 2 Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. 3 Judah begot Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez begot Hezron, and Hezron begot Ram. 4 Ram begot Amminadab, Amminadab begot Nahshon, and Nahshon begot Salmon. 5 Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse, 6 and Jesse begot David the king.David the king begot Solomon by her who had been the wife of Uriah. 7 Solomon begot Rehoboam, Rehoboam begot Abijah, and Abijah begot Asa. 8 Asa begot Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat begot Joram, and Joram begot Uzziah. 9 Uzziah begot Jotham, Jotham begot Ahaz, and Ahaz begot Hezekiah. 10 Hezekiah begot Manasseh, Manasseh begot Amon, and Amon begot Josiah. 11 Josiah begot Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon. 12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah begot Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel. 13 Zerubbabel begot Abiud, Abiud begot Eliakim, and Eliakim begot Azor. 14 Azor begot Zadok, Zadok begot Achim, and Achim begot Eliud. 15 Eliud begot Eleazar, Eleazar begot Matthan, and Matthan begot Jacob. 16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.
Hi Jodi, here are the missing parts of YOUR formula…
Jesus lineage illustrated (as per the bible)
“Son of Man”: 25%; Mary's mother's lineage was of the tribe of Levi. (Luke 1:5, 1:36)
“Son of Man”: 25%: Mary's father's lineage was (Judah) through Nathan(son of David). (Luke 3:23-31)
“Son of God”: 50%: Jesus' Father was the “HolySpirit”; NOT Joseph! (Mathew 1:18 / Mathew 1:20 / Luke 1:35)Birth: Jesus was 50% HolySpirit(God)(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35), 25% Levite(Priest) and 25% Judah(King)!
Baptism by John the baptizer, Jesus was filled with the HolySpirit(God) beyond measure! (John 3:34 / John 1:14)Here is why Jesus is called both the “Son of Man” and the “Son of God”…
Mother Father
Mary HolySpirit
50% 50%
\ /
\ /
Jesus
/ \
/ \
/ \
Son of Man Son of God
(Mark 6:3) (Luke 1:35)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 12 2012,06:32) Hi Jodi, here are the missing parts of YOUR formula… Jesus lineage illustrated (as per the bible)
“Son of Man”: 25%; Mary's mother's lineage was of the tribe of Levi. (Luke 1:5, 1:36)
“Son of Man”: 25%: Mary's father's lineage was (Judah) through Nathan(son of David). (Luke 3:23-31)
“Son of God”: 50%: Jesus' Father was the “HolySpirit”; NOT Joseph! (Mathew 1:18 / Mathew 1:20 / Luke 1:35)Birth: Jesus was 50% HolySpirit(God)(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35), 25% Levite(Priest) and 25% Judah(King)!
Baptism by John the baptizer, Jesus was filled with the HolySpirit(God) beyond measure! (John 3:34 / John 1:14)Here is why Jesus is called both the “Son of Man” and the “Son of God”…
Mother Father
Mary HolySpirit
50% 50%
\ /
\ /
Jesus
/ \
/ \
/ \
Son of Man Son of God
(Mark 6:3) (Luke 1:35)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
NOPE, Matthew 1:1 clearly states the genealogy of Jesus, linking him to be the Son of Joseph.The conception of Jesus occurred according to the Power of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus was born 100% a human being. His genes came from Joseph and Mary.
Luke 2:40 And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.
Luke 4:1 Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Romans 1:2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
Jesus was LED by the Holy Spirit. The human mind of Jesus followed the influence of God's Holy Spirit, thus making him a son of God.
Galatians 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar– 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children– 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written: “Rejoice, O barren, You who do not bear! Break forth and shout, You who are not in labor! For the desolate has many more children Than she who has a husband.” 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
To be born of the Spirit is to be born of a promise. Jesus was indeed born from a promise, the promise God gave to David, that an eternal heir would come from his offspring. That promise included that the flesh of Jesus would die but would not decay but receive incorruption!
Jesus is not half god, half human Ed J., he is 100% human.
Hi Jodi,
Do you disregard the Genealogy listed in Luke 3:23-31 concerning Mary's lineage on her father's side?
Do you choose also to disregard what Jesus said in Luke 20:41-44 concerning him being the “Son of God”?Luke 20:41-44 And he(Jesus) said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord,
Sit thou on my right hand 43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
44 David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?This is a conformation of what Luke 1:35 says concerning Jesus, is it not?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 12 2012,07:57) Hi Jodi, Do you disregard the Genealogy listed in Luke 3:23-31 concerning Mary's lineage on her father's side?
Do you choose also to disregard what Jesus said in Luke 20:41-44 concerning him being the “Son of God”?Luke 20:41-44 And he(Jesus) said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord,
Sit thou on my right hand 43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
44 David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?This is a conformation of what Luke 1:35 says concerning Jesus, is it not?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I just stated HOW Jesus is the Son of God, I said, those that are led by the Spirit of God are His sons.I clearly do not disregard Luke 3, I said that Jesus is the offspring of Joseph AND Mary.
Notice how Luke 3 links Jesus to being the Son of God, …..Luke 3:38 the [son] of Cainan, the [son] of Enos, the [son] of Seth, the [son] of Adam, the [son] of God.
Luke 20:41-44, is about how a son could be a master over a father. The scribes were very narrow minded and failed to recognize and believe David's own words.
Jesus is David's lord because he is the High Priest, haven taken away our sins. Jesus is David's lord because Jesus is the FIRST HUMAN to be raised from the dead to eternal life.
Colossians 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence
Luke 35:35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.
Luke 3:22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”
Luke 4:1 Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Ed J,
Scripture does not say that Jesus is half god, some sort of new creation conceived in Mary's womb. Jesus is 100% human being, just as we are. He was to be called the Son of God because of how he allowed himself to be fully led by the Spirit of God.
Hi Jodi,
Perhaps you can explain what Jesus meant by what he said in Luke 20:41-44?
Please explain for us all here at H-net what you believe this verse to mean; OK?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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