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GB,
God will overcome any bible problems for those who are enlightened by His Spirit.
After all the Spirit wrote the bible through men.
We must abide in the sacred writingsQuote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2008,08:55) Hi Jodi,
Are we helpless to deal with the errors?
Should we prefer to trust our own judgement?If it is unreliable then it is worse than that, a source of deception
I guess you will stop quoting scripture too if you cannot trust any of it.
Nick,That is totally not what we are saying – we are saying it has truth, a lot of truth – and there are distortions in it – the Holy Spirit reveals the distortions if you trust the Holy Spirit.
God said he sends delusion to those who do not have a love of the truth – the truth is what we need to seek – not expect to trip over it.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2008,09:02) GB,
God will overcome any bible problems for those who are enlightened by His Spirit.
After all the Spirit wrote the bible through men.
We must abide in the sacred writings
And the “devil” has used his prophets/teachers to distort the message as well.We must rightly divide the word of truth, separate truth from error.
Hi MK,
A lot of truth?
If we can trust only some bits and we do not exactly know which bits then none of it is useful.Yet Jesus trusted it and requires that we trust it and build on it our faith.[Mt7]
meerkat…………Amen sister, we must (RIGHTLY) DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH.
love and peace to you and yours and have a wonderful Holiday season……………………..gene
GB,
By divide though we do not mean remove bits.
It is truth and it is us that needs our minds transformed.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2008,09:27) Hi MK,
A lot of truth?
If we can trust only some bits and we do not exactly know which bits then none of it is useful.Yet Jesus trusted it and requires that we trust it and build on it our faith.[Mt7]
Nick,We can trust more than some bits, just because there is some translation error and added doctrines, we do not throw the whole out, we let the Holy Spirit lead us into truth.
Jesus did not trust all the instructions in the scriptures preserved by the religion of Judaism – if he did he would have obeyed the instruction to stone an adulteress. He did not stone the adulteress but showed mercy, he was led of the Spirit and was the Son of God and knew how to rightly divide.
That was why he came up against the religious leaders of Judaism
Hi MK,
But men then have the excuse of only accepting as true what fits with their doctrines.
They can justify cutting out bits and allegorising others as personal inspiration.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2008,07:54) GB,
By divide though we do not mean remove bits.
It is truth and it is us that needs our minds transformed.
Nick, “bits” have already been added AND removed since way before you purchased your leather-bound copy.Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 22 2008,06:25) Look close at this scripture, Jesus was not born as a new creation, he was resurrected as one, which is what makes him called in 1 Cor 15 the 'heavenly man'.
Hi Sis,I'm going to tackle litte pieces of your post here and there…I keep getting distracted by kids running in and out of the house with snowy boots on.
Regarding the “heavenly man” and when that took place: Jesus was called the “man from heaven” prior to his resurrection. In fact, Paul was teaching about Adam (the man from earth), and Jesus (the man from heaven).
Jesus is the man from heaven – from birth.
More later….
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2008,10:08) Hi MK,
But men then have the excuse of only accepting as true what fits with their doctrines.
They can justify cutting out bits and allegorising others as personal inspiration.
In the past it seems that men have felt justified in interpreting , changing things as well, it is not just now that the problem is – man has always been resisting God.In the OT there are passages saying God did want sacrifices and then that God did not tell the “fathers” that he wanted sacrifices – they are not both true and they are both in the OT.
Hi MK,
So are you wanting to resolve this apparent problem?
It is better to support scripture and wait for answers than foster doubts among God's little ones.Gods little ones desire the truth ……………. look at your signature ………. test all things hold fast to the good
Indeed MK,
So how can we resolve this?Hos 6
6For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice,
And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.Matthew 9:13
“But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”Mark 12:33
AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE'S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”So what are the real hopes of God behind His demand for sacrifice?
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 22 2008,06:25) Hi Mandy, Did you get a chance to read my last post to you, it's on page 116?
To me, either Jesus was a man or he wasn't. To say that he was part God is to deny that he came in the flesh. Can't you see that you are directly creating an antichrist figure?
Romans 8:3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. 5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.
Jesus was sent in the LIKENESS of SINFUL man. I don't think you are understanding what this is saying. This is saying that he is in likeness to SINFUL man, but he was NOT A sinful MAN, but a MAN without sin. This is saying that he was just like us having flesh that drew his mind to serve his flesh, however he didn't, making him like us but not us because we all have given into our flesh.
The MIND of a MAN controlled by the Spirit is who Jesus was. He was in our likeness in that he too was born to be naturally drawn to serve flesh, however he was not like us because he did not serve the flesh. It has nothing to do with him not being an actual man, and everything to do with him being a man without sin.
Look close at this scripture, Jesus was not born as a new creation, he was resurrected as one, which is what makes him called in 1 Cor 15 the 'heavenly man'.
Ephesians 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
This is saying that Jesus had to be just like us in order to pay for our sins. This is why to say that Jesus was half God, destroys our salvation, because otherwise he could not pay for our sins.
Notice that the new man was created not from how he was born, but for how he destroyed the enmity when he died. Romans 8 tells us that this was accomplished, NOT by his genetics from his birth, but from the Holy Spirit working in the mind of Jesus, “the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;”
There are no scriptures that elude us to believe that Jesus was anything other then a human being, as a matter of fact the scriptures declare that he was a man and that he had to be a man.
Mt 16:16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Mt 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.”
Joh 20:31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Jesus Christ proved to be the Son of God, not by when he was born from Mary's womb at his birth, but because of the works of his Father that he did later in his life, the miracles and signs, and of course the great finish of being raised from the dead.
Jesus is the Son of God because he is the Christ, not because he was part God, but the promised Messiah, David's seed.
1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
Believing that Jesus is the Son of God and that he is the Christ is one and the same. The Messiah is not a person born half god, but a person of the seed of David anointed with God's Holy Spirit, in such away that keeps him sinless.
Jesus is Son of Man, because he was fully a man, Jesus was Son of God, because he was a sinless man.
Mandy this is clearly what the scriptures teach. What they do not teach is that he was some sort of different creature that was part god.
Peace and love to you, Jodi
Hi Sis Jodi,
It is a wonderful post on narrating the Real Jesus of the Bible.
Hope This will clear doubts of Sis Mandy on Jesus' true nature.Thanks and love to you
AdamJodi………I agree with Adam………you have explained it right, Its very important we see Jesus as exaclty like we are in every way, and look how GOD delivered Him from sin and raised Him from the dead. He is our Example of the power of God working in a man just Like us. This causes us to put all of our Heart into the FATHER as Jesus did. And if we have Jesus we will have the FATHER also.
love to you and yours Jodi …………………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2008,11:51) Hi not3,
Can you trust scripture?
You mean like the KJV and verses like 1 John 5:7?Should I? But I guess we should continue this in the Bible thread, huh?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 22 2008,09:34) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 22 2008,06:25) Look close at this scripture, Jesus was not born as a new creation, he was resurrected as one, which is what makes him called in 1 Cor 15 the 'heavenly man'.
Hi Sis,I'm going to tackle litte pieces of your post here and there…I keep getting distracted by kids running in and out of the house with snowy boots on.
Regarding the “heavenly man” and when that took place: Jesus was called the “man from heaven” prior to his resurrection. In fact, Paul was teaching about Adam (the man from earth), and Jesus (the man from heaven).
Jesus is the man from heaven – from birth.
More later….
Jodi, just wanted to make sure you saw this.
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