Conception

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 02 2008,18:21)

Why would he want to teach something that his children couldn't comprehend?

That is why Christ spoke in parables.

We cannot comprehend from our own spirit, but from the Spirit of God we can be revealed that which could not enter our minds from our own spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:11
For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 02 2008,19:14)

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 02 2008,16:45) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2008,16:34) Hi not3, Conception certainly gives us a body and usually the breath of God given to Adam. But with the second Adam God chose to intervene. God is sovereign. Did God change all the rules?   Mary was still pregnant for 9 months. She went through labor pains and delieverd a child. What was the intervention?  The virgin part, sure.  But he is still the Father of his boy – Jesus.  We should put 2 and 2 together and see that God had a son through Mary.  What's the big deal to admit this?  It's certainly not against any “rules” that I am aware of? Would it offend you if it were true?  Why? Ummm Mandy, didn't God break the rules of conception by impregnating Mary by using the Holy Spirit?? That seems to me to be a pretty blatant break with convention.

Obviously.

But my point was that everything else continued status quo. And why would it if it wasn't supposed to carry on just as any other pregnancy would? Of course if GOD is the father, things will be a little more, shall we say, special?

It still doesn't nagate the fact that the conception was the same for Jesus as it was for you and me. Cells divided and a new individual was produced. This is the thrust of my theory.

[Not3in1]

Quote (t8 @ June 02 2008,20:44)

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 02 2008,18:21) Why would he want to teach something that his children couldn't comprehend? That is why Christ spoke in parables. We cannot comprehend from our own spirit, but from the Spirit of God we can be revealed that which could not enter our minds from our own spirit. 1 Corinthians 2:11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

t8,

I can appreciate this.

However, conception/pregnancy/birth are not spiritually discerned events. They are physical events. Very human. Very common. Very understandable.

If God wanted to take an event and confuse it by turning it into a parable, I believe he would have chose something that wasn't so a part of our nature. That would be almost cruel, imo. We reproduce…..it's what we do. Anyway that's my opinion.

I wonder though, why is it that no one wants to accept that God actually fathered Jesus? Any ideas?

[gollamudi]

Nice reasoning Sis,
Whatever things are revealed and understandable God will not give another special revelation which is only a myth as I believe.
Still I am not fully clear about how God fathered Jesus. So far I believe that God created a Zygote(foetus) in Mary through His Holy Spirit. I can not argue further in this since I don't have much information.
But I agree with you as far as Jesus is a creature not creator.
Love to you
Adam

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Are testtube babies special and different?
Man interferes but God is not allowed to?

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2008,06:38)

Hi not3, Are testtube babies special and different? Man interferes but God is not allowed to?

A test-tube baby is still a sperm and an ovum united/fused. Cells divide and a new individual is the outcome.

The process is different, just like the virgin birth, but the outcome is the same.

So, I'm not sure what your point is? Can you elaborate?

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Why not let God be God.
Why not just let Him tell us what happened and not get hung up on the detail?

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2008,16:23)

Hi not3, Why not let God be God. Why not just let Him tell us what happened and not get hung up on the detail?

You mean, why question these things and wonder about them?

Should we just forget that Jesus was truly conceived and go on with our own dogmas?

Hung up on detail? (shaking head) Nick, this idea of conception, imo, defines who and what Jesus is. I hardly thing that is a detail to overlook or not spend too much time on.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
If you demand understanding as the only basis of belief then you have not yet got the point.
It is the opposite.
Luke 7:35
“Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children.”

[Not3in1]

Hi Nick,

I actually understand the conception of Jesus pretty well. I believe that God showed me this precious truth a couple years ago with the explaination I've given of John 1:1 repeatedly.

I'm just amazed that most folks, including yourself, deny that Jesus was truly conceived.
The gospels tell us that he was. We should believe scripture.

[dirtyknections]

Hey 3in1…

You are right he was concieved….Jehovah=father Mary=mother

I guess since you don't believe in Jesus pre existence then you can't grasp fully my train of thought

And conversely, since i do believe in Christ pre existence I can't fuly grasp your line of reasoning..

As you said to me in anothr thread…its funny we both are reading the same scriptures and say to have the same spirit working with us, but understand them differently….Its ok tho you are still my sister…and God loves us both..no matter what form we are in…

So with that said… Lets get back to the debate

[Not3in1]

Thanks, DK.

I appreciate your openness and willingness to go beyond our differences and keep looking at the subject.

For me, it's as simple as looking at what we already understand and applying basic scripture to things that are already understood. It makes complete sense this way. As you well know, making a baby is not difficult stuff! No degree is required.

But I believe when we deduce understanding from other scripture that is not so clear…..it muddy's water that was otherwise clear to begin with. Now wasn't that clear?

Have a good one,
Mandy

[dirtyknections]

Clear…as mud

[Not3in1]

Quote (dirtyknections @ June 04 2008,03:29)

You are right he was concieved….Jehovah=father Mary=mother

Maybe we could start with a clear definition of what conception is?

Then we can decide if you truly believe Jesus was conceived or not?

[Not3in1]

conception Audio Help (kən-sěp'shən) Pronunciation Key
The formation of a zygote resulting from the union of a sperm and egg cell; fertilization.

zygote [(zeye-goht)]
The single cell that results from fertilization of an ovum by a sperm. After dividing several times, it implants in the uterus. It continues to divide, producing more cells and passing through the stages of embryo and fetus.

IS ANYONE STILL WILLING TO SAY THAT JESUS WAS TRULY CONCEIVED?
Thanks,
Mandy

[dirtyknections]

Quote (dirtyknections @ June 02 2008,17:21)

Simply put…. During Mary’s ovulation one of her ovary released a mature egg that passed through her Fallopian tube on its way to the uterus; at the instant this happened, God created a sperm cell perfectly compatible and able to unite with the egg; fertilization occurred and the infant Jesus was procreated.  This is the exact description of the scientific process that occurred.

I will

[dirtyknections]

Quote (dirtyknections @ June 02 2008,17:20)

I have 2 questions for you tho: Should we think the Creator of the universe incapable of producing the male gamete cell necessary for the procreation of Jesus?   Why do Christians spiritualize this event beyond reason when mere mortal humans have demonstrated skill and success with artificial insemination?

Remember these 2 questions I posed

[NickHassan]

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2008,08:40)

conception   Audio Help   (kən-sěp'shən)  Pronunciation Key   The formation of a zygote resulting from the union of a sperm and egg cell; fertilization. zygote [(zeye-goht)] The single cell that results from fertilization of an ovum by a sperm. After dividing several times, it implants in the uterus. It continues to divide, producing more cells and passing through the stages of embryo and fetus. IS ANYONE STILL WILLING TO SAY THAT JESUS WAS TRULY CONCEIVED? Thanks, Mandy

Hi not3,
Let God define conception and not force it through human science.

[seek and you will find]

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2008,08:40)

conception   Audio Help   (kən-sěp'shən)  Pronunciation Key   The formation of a zygote resulting from the union of a sperm and egg cell; fertilization. zygote [(zeye-goht)] The single cell that results from fertilization of an ovum by a sperm. After dividing several times, it implants in the uterus. It continues to divide, producing more cells and passing through the stages of embryo and fetus. IS ANYONE STILL WILLING TO SAY THAT JESUS WAS TRULY CONCEIVED? Thanks, Mandy

Mandy! We really do not know how Jesus was conceived. Since it was of the Holy Spirit, I do not think that it went as we Humans are conceived.
Peace and Love Mrs.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 04 2008,08:53)

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2008,08:40) conception   Audio Help   (kən-sěp'shən)  Pronunciation Key   The formation of a zygote resulting from the union of a sperm and egg cell; fertilization. zygote [(zeye-goht)] The single cell that results from fertilization of an ovum by a sperm. After dividing several times, it implants in the uterus. It continues to divide, producing more cells and passing through the stages of embryo and fetus. IS ANYONE STILL WILLING TO SAY THAT JESUS WAS TRULY CONCEIVED? Thanks, Mandy Hi not3, Let God define conception and not force it through human science.

Too tidy.

Don't buy it. The only reason folks resort to this type of thinking is because the true definition doesn't fit their theology. IMO

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