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Hi not3,
Certainly some of the Psalm relates to the end of the 1000 yr reign but you think the Son has yet to be begotten because of this?No. I simply mean to say that in relation to Psalm 2 Jesus is spoken of being begotten in the future………..at conception.
Hi not 3,
Psalm 2 is found quoted in all sorts of contexts in scripture so is clearly a vital link.
You think God was speaking of Himself prophetically? That would be unusual.Cross references
Psalm 2:1 : Ps 46:6; 83:2-5; Acts 4:25, 26
Psalm 2:1 : Ps 21:11
Psalm 2:2 : Ps 48:4-6
Psalm 2:2 : Ps 74:18, 23
Psalm 2:2 : John 1:41
Psalm 2:3 : Jer 5:5
Psalm 2:4 : Ps 37:13
Psalm 2:4 : Ps 59:8
Psalm 2:5 : Ps 21:8, 9; 76:7
Psalm 2:5 : Ps 78:49, 50
Psalm 2:6 : Ps 45:6
Psalm 2:6 : Ps 48:1, 2
Psalm 2:7 : Acts 13:33; Heb 1:5; 5:5
Psalm 2:8 : Ps 21:1, 2
Psalm 2:8 : Ps 22:27
Psalm 2:8 : Ps 67:7
Psalm 2:9 : Ps 89:23; 110:5, 6; Rev 2:26, 27; 12:5; 19:15
Psalm 2:9 : Ps 28:5; 52:5; 72:4
Psalm 2:10 : Prov 8:15; 27:11
Psalm 2:11 : Ps 5:7
Psalm 2:11 : Ps 119:119, 120
Psalm 2:12 : Ps 2:7
Psalm 2:12 : Rev 6:16, 17
Psalm 2:12 : Ps 5:11; 34:22You think God was speaking of Himself prophetically? That would be unusual.
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Much of the OT is prophetic language of what God will accomplish, I don't find it unusual at all that God would fortell of his Son coming; the promised Messiah.Psalm 2 is an important Psalm, obviously. But it is not soley used and referred back to regarding the begettal of the Son. The verse in Acts is ref'ing the Psalm for an all-together different reason. They are confirming what they already know regarding the Anointed One who is Jesus the man (already born/died/raised to life). They were, so to speak, reminding the LORD of what he had already done in brining the Messiah to them, and asking him to reach out his hand and continue the good work……
Hi not3,
I agree it is the verse most used and in many varying ways by the apostles.
But for God to exult in advance seems very odd.1. Jesus preexisted as a son and was placed in the womb of Mary.
2. Jesus preexisted as an angel and incarnated into the womb of Mary.
3. Jesus preexisted as God himself and incarnated into the womb of Mary as the second person of God.What do all 3 of these “Jesus'” have in common?
NONE of them went through a true conception as the gospels teach.
Hi Not3,
Conception at a physical level is of the body only- outer man.
The rest of man -soul and spirit- inner man
is of the breath of God given to the first Adam.God's Spirit and Mary prepared a body for the Son of God.
The second inner man-the last Adam- is rather from heaven.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2007,21:01) Hi Not3,
Conception at a physical level is of the body only- outer man.
The rest of man -soul and spirit- inner man
is of the breath of God given to the first Adam.God's Spirit and Mary prepared a body for the Son of God.
The second inner man-the last Adam- is rather from heaven.
Hi Nick:I know that you are discussing this with Not3in1 but if I may inter-ject something.
You say:
God's Spirit and Mary prepared a body for the Son of God.
The second inner man-the last Adam- is rather from heaven.And also, you make reference to the inner man.
Jesus was born into this world a living soul. He was a man but unique in that he was not born of the sperm of man but conceived by the Holy Ghost, and so He was Son of God and son of man. God prepared a body for his Spirit. His body is the Holy Temple of God.
The inner man is that personality that was formed within him through the obedience to the Word of God.
And so, the scripture states: 1 Co. 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
God Bless
Hi 94,
You say
” God prepared a body for his Spirit. His body is the Holy Temple of God.”We are body, soul and spirit.[1Thess 5]
“The inner man is that personality that was formed within him through the obedience to the Word of God.”
Where is this written?
I agree that those reborn from above have Christ, as Spirit, reborn into them becoming, if allowed to, their inner man.
Outer man, flesh, must die, and if we are clothed in Christ men will not be raised naked to judgement.“And so, the scripture states: 1 Co. 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.”
The Spirit that quickens is the Spirit of God given to Christ. He WAS MADE a quickening Spirit. The Lord is the Spirit. His own spirit left at Calvary.
94 – thank you for contributing to this thread! Please continue to share your view and I hope others will join in.
Nick has been very patient in discussing this topic with me many times (thank you, Nick)! But he has a view that is quite unique, in my opinion. I can see where he gets his view, I've just never heard it before in my travels and chats with other Christians. I'm not saying the view is incorrect, however it does not line up with what I see in scripture. Maybe my view will change? Maybe it won't. I can onlyu present what I believe to be the truth and go from there.
TRUE CONCEPTION is this: The father contributes 23 chromosomes in his seed; the mother contributes 23 chromosomes via her ovum. When the seed and ovum unite, they become fused together to create a new individual. This individual is a combination of both parents. When this individual is born, he will have the looks/traits/personality/DNA of both parents equally. There are no exceptions unless they be a mutation of what is considered normal.
To deny this idea of true conception in any way, is to deny that Jesus was truly conceived.
Matthew 1:20-23, in part
“….what is conceived in her is from the holy Spirit…….she will give birth to a son….the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son….”Luke 1:31-36, in part
“You will be with child and give birth to a son……How can this be?…..since I am a virgin?…..The holy Spirit will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. EVEN ELIZABETH your relative IS GOING TO HAVE A CHILD IN HER OLD AGE…..”The angel comforted Mary by letting her know that God was also doing a miraculous thing in Elizabeth's life. That she, too, would also conceive and be pregnant. The two women would be pregnant at the same time. Well, I can tell you from a women's perspective that there is nothing like having a friend or relative pregnant at the same time you are also pregnant. It's a neat bonding time and it gives much comfort to each women. I do not believe this timing of the two women conceiving was by mistake. Their pregnancies are comparable. We can be sure that Zechariah fathered his own child! We can be sure that God fathered his own Son as well!
More on this if there is interest. To me, this is the most important subject to discuss. It determines WHICH JESUS you serve, and as we have seen here on HeavenNet – there are quite a few Jesus' out there.
Hi not3,
You say
“To deny this idea of true conception in any way, is to deny that Jesus was truly conceived.”
No.
What God calls conception is conception.
God is not limited by the narrow and finite understandings of men.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2007,07:18) Hi not3,
You say
“To deny this idea of true conception in any way, is to deny that Jesus was truly conceived.”
No.
What God calls conception is conception.
God is not limited by the narrow and finite understandings of men.
God gives us language so that we can understand him and the world around us.We cannot change what words mean.
God did not change what conception means. Where is it written that he did?
You may be tempted to say that the “virgin conception” is the exception and changes what conception means? No! I disagree. There is nothing further to tell us that God changed what conception meant for him or anyone else. It was a miracle that Jesus was born of God. It was a prophetic message being fulfilled. It was a miracle. But the growing of his Son and the birth of his Son followed every other example of conception/birth that we know of to date.
Further, Jesus is compared to us! If he is the exception, then it should be written, right?
Hi Nick:
Below are some scriptures which might help you to understand about the inner man. It is what a person does in the body that makes the person. When Jesus says in John 14 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? (MY understanding is that he was talking about the life that he lived in the body.)
10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (The Father dwelling in Jesus did the works through the Word of God that Jesus obeyed)
Hebrews 10:5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: (My understanding is that the “me” here is the Word of God)
Hebrews 5:8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;(the “him” here I understand to be the Word of God)
John 6:32Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
John 6: 56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life
Jphn 17:8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
John 17:19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
John 17:17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
God Bless, I hope this helps.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 25 2007,08:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2007,07:18) Hi not3,
You say
“To deny this idea of true conception in any way, is to deny that Jesus was truly conceived.”
No.
What God calls conception is conception.
God is not limited by the narrow and finite understandings of men.
God gives us language so that we can understand him and the world around us.We cannot change what words mean.
God did not change what conception means. Where is it written that he did?
You may be tempted to say that the “virgin conception” is the exception and changes what conception means? No! I disagree. There is nothing further to tell us that God changed what conception meant for him or anyone else. It was a miracle that Jesus was born of God. It was a prophetic message being fulfilled. It was a miracle. But the growing of his Son and the birth of his Son followed every other example of conception/birth that we know of to date.
Further, Jesus is compared to us! If he is the exception, then it should be written, right?
Hi not3,
Do you fully understand conception?
Does anyone?Hi 94
You say
” When Jesus says in John 14 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? (MY understanding is that he was talking about the life that he lived in the body.)”God was in him reconciling the world to Himself.[2Cor5]
Christ, the glorious vessel, fully revealed God to men as the fullness of deity was in him.[col2]
Christ is the Word of God.
God spoke through him.
That truth sets us free.Hi Nick:
I missed something, and I don't quite understand this statement. Please explain, thanks.
You say:
Quote The Spirit that quickens is the Spirit of God given to Christ. He WAS MADE a quickening Spirit. The Lord is the Spirit. His own spirit left at Calvary. Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2007,09:04) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 25 2007,08:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2007,07:18) Hi not3,
You say
“To deny this idea of true conception in any way, is to deny that Jesus was truly conceived.”
No.
What God calls conception is conception.
God is not limited by the narrow and finite understandings of men.
God gives us language so that we can understand him and the world around us.We cannot change what words mean.
God did not change what conception means. Where is it written that he did?
You may be tempted to say that the “virgin conception” is the exception and changes what conception means? No! I disagree. There is nothing further to tell us that God changed what conception meant for him or anyone else. It was a miracle that Jesus was born of God. It was a prophetic message being fulfilled. It was a miracle. But the growing of his Son and the birth of his Son followed every other example of conception/birth that we know of to date.
Further, Jesus is compared to us! If he is the exception, then it should be written, right?
Hi not3,
Do you fully understand conception?
Does anyone?
Yes! I understand conception, and as a father of many children, I think you have it down too!
God is not the author of confusion.
God does not say something is so and then change his mind.
94 and Nick,
It is easy to get off the subject of conception.
But I would challenge you and others to stay focused.
What you believe about the conception of Jesus determines WHICH JESUS you believe in.
Conception is a narrow topic.
Hi 94,
Christ like us had a human spirit and was filled with the Spirit of God at the Jordan.Rom 8
“16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: “He became for us the source of eternal life.
Rom 8
“
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: “
Jn 7
” 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) “
That new life sets us free.
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