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Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 02 2012,18:00) Stu. What exactly do you live for?
Just work; eat; sleep;have some fun;grow old in a home and die,and the grave.
Stu will die like all men do.
And it will be something he will face alone and he won't be so brave when he reflects on how he spent his life.
Imagine his surprise when he realises that life had eternal meaning and consequences.
Maybe he will come to realise the gift that he possesses is great, (the gift of life). But he could also squander it to the very end by making his whole life meaningless.Quote (t8 @ Nov. 02 2012,20:59) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 21 2012,23:55) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 21 2012,17:59) Instead we are only required to give honour to that source
Why should you be required to do that?Stuart
The same reason you would give honour to your own father, but even more so. Or why your own children should honour you as their father.
And what reason would that be? You still haven't said.Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 02 2012,21:09) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 02 2012,18:00) Stu. What exactly do you live for?
Just work; eat; sleep;have some fun;grow old in a home and die,and the grave.
Stu will die like all men do.
And it will be something he will face alone and he won't be so brave when he reflects on how he spent his life.
Imagine his surprise when he realises that life had eternal meaning and consequences.
Maybe he will come to realise the gift that he possesses is great, (the gift of life). But he could also squander it to the very end by making his whole life meaningless.
You sound angrier than Wakeup.Maybe boxing is the hobby that could more profitably replace the hobby of christianity for you.
Stuart
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 02 2012,15:00) Stu. What exactly do you live for?
Just work; eat; sleep;have some fun;grow old in a home and die,and the grave.You have nothing to look forward to,but the grave.
Why bother caring for others?
Just make the best of this life, and do to others as they do unto you,and much more.Why bother to consider right or wrong?
Every one must look for them selves; the strong shall survive, as for the weak,thats their problem.This is the only one life we have,lets not squander it.
Let no one be in the way,and if anyone is in the way; Just bulldoze right through,and squash,and stamp.With no mercy,for this is the only life we have.
Conscience can not have room in this life ,for there is no God,and why need conscience if there is nothing but the grave,why bother.To acknowledge conscience,is to deceive one self,that there is a God that will judge.
Why should one love one another? For this is to acknowledge that there is love. Love is an abstract,why believe in the abstract,its nonsense.
There is no love in the jungle;the strong eat the weak to survive, and thats all there is to it.
There need not be manners in the jugle,whats the purpose,it will only impede survival.A man of the material world,truly should not embrace the abstract, such as love, and sorry, and courtesy and apology,this is only deceiving one self.
There is no good or bad: if there is; than who is HE that draws the line? Between good and bad? Is it the individual?
Good for one to survive, is bad for an other one, that has been robbed.Good for one that kills to survive, is bad for the family that lost a member.
Good for one that cheats to survive, but bad for the victim.
Why need to give;for that is a loss.
To be good in this world is foolishness,for it is only a loss.There is no God,so lets just take,and take,for there is only the grave ahead.
No God; no conscience; no love,no sorry,no need to be good.
Just whats good for the individual.me first.
Judges should not use the ten commandments,or the holy bible to swear on.This is all hypocrisy; they should judge according their own laws of man, which is the strong survive,and the weak are there by nature to be trampled on.
Good is bad, and bad is good. Good for one, is bad for the other. for one is forgotten after the grave.We just turn into dung,and dust.
We are all just animals,we can only live as animals,for conscience can not evolve.Animals had lived long before humans; but still no conscience has evolved in them.
We learn by experience you say: How can a brain with no dna of conscience, evolve into a brain that has a dna of consciense? Conscience is an abstract,it does not evolve.
Morals does not evolve from what is not there from the beginning. Even a little child knows when he or she has done something wrong,and yet,the brain has not experience or evolved into knowing whats right and whats wrong.
And yet, that child can sense that he has done wrong.
An athiest exercising morals and conscience,is a hypocrite,or still confused.
I say, that there is a God that draws the line between good and bad. He is the judge,a righteous judge,which men can not have that authority,for we are corrupt,and always selfish.
wakeup.
Every thing that Wakeup said was an uneducated fallacy learned either in church or from the derogatory ethnic discrimination taught in the bible. He has reiterated this in many threads on this forum. He believes that people who do not follow his God are incapable of doing anything good. The simple documented facts, which wakeup chooses to totally ignore, display the sophistry in his reasoning. .In the top of the class, in both atheism and good behavior, come the Japanese. Over eighty percent accept evolution and fewer than ten percent even think that God exists. Despite its size – over a hundred million people – Japan is one of the least crime-prone countries in the world. It also has the lowest rates of teenage pregnancy of any developed nation.
At the other end of the scale comes America. Over 70 percent of Americans claim to be Christians and only 40 percent accept some form of evolution (many believe it had a helping hand from the Deity). The U.S. has one of the highest rates of teenage pregnancy, and homicide rates are at least five times greater than in Europe and ten times higher than in Japan.
In Japan where around 1% of the people are Christian, the homicide rate is 0.45 per 100,000.
Homicide rates in China are 1.67 per 100,000, and only about 5% of the Chinese believe in God.
In the USA the homicide rate is 5.22 per 100,000 and fully 73% of those people believe in God.
In Africa where 82% of the people are Christian the homicide rate is 38.59 per 100,000.
Wakeup needs to wake up and realize that his stupid ideas that only God fearing people are capable of any good, is a strong sign of narrow minded ignorance.
Tim
Timothy; where did you borrow that name from,thats a jewish name.*What am I*, should be your name.
You dont believe in God but believe in Good and in bad.
It only shows, that you dont know what you believe.
The grave is the only place you believe in,thats as far as you can see.When you are young and healthy, you feel you dont need anything but yourself.
But when you get older and wiser,you will start asking deeper questions.It is natural for humans to ask deep questions.What was life all about, whats the purpose,its all in vain.
On your dying bed you will seek for a pastor to give you peace. The fear of dying is so terrible.There can be no peace without God,the spirit will be in constant agony.
The emptiness inside is like a dark space with no light in sight,can not be filled with riches.vanity of vanities,all is vanity,what profit a man of all his labour which he takes under the sun?
One generation passed away, and another generation comes.
And the earth abideth for ever.This is the reason why many rich and famous,commit suicide.
The heart is pumping inside the body non stop day and night for 70–80 yrs and you still can not see that it is the gift of God; taking it for granted,this is because you live in darknes.
having eyes ,but can not see.heaving ears but can not see.The japanese believe in a deity,and they have their parents teaching them to honour the elder,and not to steal or murder
They know what is good and what is bad because every human is given that thing called conscience.Everyone will be judged by their conscience.
Of which you inherited from the animals;in your shallow understanding.
America is a christian nation so called,but not a God fearing nation, but a war mongering nationand a loose nation because of hollywood.Even your grand master Darwin believed in God on his dying bed.
I hope you will come to your senses one day soon.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,
You said,Quote Timothy; where did you borrow that name from,thats a jewish name.*What am I*, should be your name. I didn't borrow it. That was the name my mother gave me 68 years ago.
Quote You dont believe in God but believe in Good and in bad.
It only shows, that you dont know what you believe.
The grave is the only place you believe in,thats as far as you can see.How is it that you can tell me what I believe and don't believe, but tell me that I don't now what I believe? Are you a wizard? You know what God thinks of wizards.
Quote When you are young and healthy, you feel you dont need anything but yourself.
But when you get older and wiser,you will start asking deeper questions.It is natural for humans to ask deep questions.As I mentioned earlier, I am 68 years old, and for over sixty of those years I believed almost as you do, just not quite as naive about non believers.
Quote What was life all about, whats the purpose,its all in vain.
On your dying bed you will seek for a pastor to give you peace. The fear of dying is so terrible.I feel sorry for you that you can see no purpose in life without your invisible friend.
I don't fear death at all. I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it did not bother me in least. I do however wish to continue enjoying life with my loved ones for as long as possible.Your fear of death explains your need for the false security of another life after this one.
Quote There can be no peace without God,the spirit will be in constant agony.
The emptiness inside is like a dark space with no light in sight,can not be filled with riches.Isaiah tells us that ” “There is no peace,” says the LORD, “for the wicked.”
And you say there is no peace without God.
So I understand that in your mind anyone who does not believe in God is by default wicked.In truth millions of people know peace without God.
Quote vanity of vanities,all is vanity,what profit a man of all his labour which he takes under the sun?
One generation passed away, and another generation comes.
And the earth abideth for ever.Solomon thought that everything that you did on earth was meaningless if you merely died after doing it, he seems to have had the same abysmal view of life that you have.
Quote This is the reason why many rich and famous,commit suicide. And of course the poor and non famous do not.
Quote The japanese believe in a deity,and they have their parents teaching them to honour the elder,and not to steal or murder
They know what is good and what is bad because every human is given that thing called conscience.Is their deity your God? Will they go to your heaven after death?
If not, then what is their purpose in life?Quote Even your grand master Darwin believed in God on his dying bed. I have no idea what you mean by “grand master Darwin” but you shouldn't lie about the dead.
Darwin's daughter was present with her father when he died and said
“I was present at his deathbed. Lady Hope was not present during his last illness, or any illness. I believe he never even saw her, but in any case she had no influence over him in any department of thought or belief. He never recanted any of his scientific views, either then or earlier. We think the story of his conversion was fabricated in the U.S.A. The whole story has no foundation whatever.”Quote I hope you will come to your senses one day soon. Thank you, but I am fine.
Tim
Edit to fix quotes. I am always messing those up.Quote (Stu @ Nov. 03 2012,02:40) And what reason would that be? You still haven't said. Stuart
It's okay Stu. Maybe one day when you have kids you might understand such things.Suffice to say, they will either honour you or dishonour you.
Should be easy to understand such things. But then you have rejected God and that goes with his laws I suppose.
And your Evolution can't replace morality by the sound of it.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 03 2012,05:56) I didn't borrow it. That was the name my mother gave me 68 years ago.
Getting close to meeting thy maker then. Usually wisdom comes with age which is handy given that you are closer to that day.Maybe you are younger and your mother thought up the name years before you were born. That might be the case given words you speak seem to not to be that wise.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 03 2012,02:57) In the USA the homicide rate is 5.22 per 100,000 and fully 73% of those people believe in God.
If you asked most murderers or the guy who mugged you in Central Park if he had a deep faith in God and loved God, what do you think the majority answer would be. Yes or No?In the USA, you have more freedom. To an evil person freedom is the freedom to do more evil. But it is also the freedom to do more good.
In China much behaviour both good and bad is restricted.
The biggest problem in the USA is not that people are mostly Christian because Canada would likely have the same stat. It is probably got more to do with differences in racial makeup and tensions as Canada is different to the USA in that point.
In New Zealand most people believe in God, and the Police don't carry firearms. Well that might have changed recently. Not sure what the policy is now. Might be a firearm in each Police car or something like that. Needless to say, still majority who believe and much different outcome with the homicide rate.
T8
Quote Stu will die like all men do. NO STU will die just like the animals = born to be in the chain of live and serve as food to all or almost to all,:D
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 03 2012,12:54) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 03 2012,02:40) And what reason would that be? You still haven't said. Stuart
It's okay Stu. Maybe one day when you have kids you might understand such things.Suffice to say, they will either honour you or dishonour you.
Should be easy to understand such things. But then you have rejected God and that goes with his laws I suppose.
And your Evolution can't replace morality by the sound of it.
So you cannot even articulate why children should “honour” their parents, let alone answer the original question you dodged, which was about why you should feel compelled to “honour” a creator.Sounds like a complete failure of language, or reason, or both.
Christianity: the religion for those who don't like having to give answers.
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 03 2012,12:58) Getting close to meeting thy maker then.
It's bizarre to watch a moderator troll his own forum.Stuart
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 03 2012,14:59) NO STU will die just like the animals = born to be in the chain of live and serve as food to all or almost to all,:D
This is what your christianity hobby tells you happens to you too.It's just you add some fantasy drivel about getting a new Arnold Schwarzenegger-type body, by witchcraft or some other magic.
Of course it could be permanent destruction for you instead, couldn't it.
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 03 2012,13:07) If you asked most murderers or the guy who mugged you in Central Park if he had a deep faith in God and loved God, what do you think the majority answer would be. Yes or No?
I think the statistics say that the odds would be overwhelmingly in favour of “Yes”.Atheists make up at least 15% of the US population but only 0.23% of the prison population.
Or maybe that average 5 point IQ advantage that atheists have means they get away with more…
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 03 2012,16:34) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 03 2012,13:07) If you asked most murderers or the guy who mugged you in Central Park if he had a deep faith in God and loved God, what do you think the majority answer would be. Yes or No?
I think the statistics say that the odds would be overwhelmingly in favour of “Yes”.Atheists make up at least 15% of the US population but only 0.23% of the prison population.
Or maybe that average 5 point IQ advantage that atheists have means they get away with more…
Stuart
Quote (princess @ Nov. 01 2012,23:09) So before you think that you have a firm grasp on your religion I would suggest you take a few course on the matter. Just saying. Now I could continue on and on comparing your god to others, comparing your rituals to others ect. ect, however with the limited knowledge you have about your own religion it would seem senseless. Even so, there are many good books/articles to read on the matter.
Enjoy the day!
Princess, true religion is within yourself. Anyone can claim to be a Christian, I have seen people do HUGE posts on forums for example, and I won't comment on what i found out when I actually got to know them a bit better. Anyway, truth is something which grows, if you stick to the right path, and we all go off that path now and again,Religion is man made. Faith is within.
Quote Enjoy the day! Thanks, you too.
take care.Quote (Stu @ Nov. 03 2012,19:22) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 03 2012,12:54) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 03 2012,02:40) And what reason would that be? You still haven't said. Stuart
It's okay Stu. Maybe one day when you have kids you might understand such things.Suffice to say, they will either honour you or dishonour you.
Should be easy to understand such things. But then you have rejected God and that goes with his laws I suppose.
And your Evolution can't replace morality by the sound of it.
So you cannot even articulate why children should “honour” their parents, let alone answer the original question you dodged, which was about why you should feel compelled to “honour” a creator.Sounds like a complete failure of language, or reason, or both.
Christianity: the religion for those who don't like having to give answers.
Stuart
Stu I don't need to give you an answer.Pretty obvious. Try and think of your children dishonouring you because you are their Father. Then try and think of a world where that is encouraged. Now read my comment again and work it out. Or do you lack morality to the point that it makes no sense to you.
And while I am at it, I won't tell you what 2 + 1 =. Do it yourself.
Do you really lack common sense to that degree. Maybe.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 03 2012,22:29) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 03 2012,19:22) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 03 2012,12:54) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 03 2012,02:40) And what reason would that be? You still haven't said. Stuart
It's okay Stu. Maybe one day when you have kids you might understand such things.Suffice to say, they will either honour you or dishonour you.
Should be easy to understand such things. But then you have rejected God and that goes with his laws I suppose.
And your Evolution can't replace morality by the sound of it.
So you cannot even articulate why children should “honour” their parents, let alone answer the original question you dodged, which was about why you should feel compelled to “honour” a creator.Sounds like a complete failure of language, or reason, or both.
Christianity: the religion for those who don't like having to give answers.
Stuart
Stu I don't need to give you an answer.Pretty obvious. Try and think of your children dishonouring you because you are their Father. Then try and think of a world where that is encouraged. Now read my comment again and work it out. Or do you lack morality to the point that it makes no sense to you.
And while I am at it, I won't tell you what 2 + 1 =. Do it yourself.
Do you really lack common sense to that degree. Maybe.
Thanks for demonstrating my point about your religion.Given that you suggested this, it looks like you only like the idea of others answering your questions.
I personally think that honour is earned.
Now, should I put you “in the hot seat” to ask you WHY you should feel compelled to “honour” a creator (whatever that is)?
I won't, because I don't believe in fascism. But it remains an interesting question whether you can both take it and give it.
Stuart
Stu.
You mentioned you dont like fascism?
Well suprise,suprise; you will be ruled by a fascist government soon.wakeup.
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 03 2012,14:59) T8 Quote Stu will die like all men do. NO STU will die just like the animals = born to be in the chain of live and serve as food to all or almost to all,:D
Technically T, it is the circle of life. No matter what god/gods you believe in, doesn't chang the fact that the body is bio- degradable. To some it may be the only thing they ever recycle in life
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