Charles' Jesus is God Proof Texts

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 07 2011,20:08)

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 08 2011,12:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2011,11:36) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 07 2011,17:41) By the way, totally God and totally human. That is why his sacrifice saves me. Nothing else could. sacrifice Muhammed, Budda, Mikeboll, non-sinning you (as you claim), me, cows goats lambs etc. etc. They could not suffice. God come in the flesh could and did. Thanks God! John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. If God is the one who died to save you, then who was the Son of God that God sent to do that job? John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Jesus did not save the world, Mark.  It was God who so loved the world that He decided to save it THROUGH His Son. So thank you God, for loving the work of your hands so much that you were willing to sacrifice your closest and most beloved possession of all in order that we could have a hope of everlasting life in your Kingdom. Jesus did not save the world, Mark.-Mikeboll According to you Mikeboll. I say, yes he did, otherwise, if he did not do what he did, we are all doomed. Also if you so not accept him as Lord and Savior, I got my worries……..

Hi Mark,

WHO is it that loved the world so much that He SENT someone as a Savior?

And WHO is that one that He SENT?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 07 2011,20:13)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2011,11:41) But what did you think about this one? Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. I await your response, Mark. Because  God was in him with him and through him………

That's right, Mark. Our ONE God was “in him and through him”. ONE Being was IN and THROUGH a DIFFERENT being.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 07 2011,20:18)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2011,10:44) So then God the Father is also the “firstborn of all creation”? Also exactly.

Can you find any support to your claim that God Himself was the “firstBORN” of anything?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 07 2011,20:26)

Ok. You say it wasn't Jesus speaking from the throne in 21. All through Revalations Jesus speaks to John but he gives a break to his Father here. I can wrap my head aroudn that, although I do not think it is true. Lets go to Revalation 22. 22:12-“Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each as his conduct deserves. I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA, THE FIRST AND THE LAST, THE BEGINNING AND THE END! ……………V16 IT IS I JESUS, WHO HAVE SENT MY ANGEL TO GIVE YOU THIS TESTIMONY ABOUT THE CHURCHES.” Was this Jesus speaking Mikeboll?

Jesus started speaking in verse 16, Mark.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 08 2011,06:41)

But Mike you are not the first and last. Here they are both referred to as being the first to exist……………

Where do you see the words “to exist” following the words “first and last”?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 08 2011,06:51)

Mikeboll Quote Jesus did not save the world, Mark.  It was God who so loved the world that He decided to save it THROUGH His Son. This is not true. No, The Father didn't sacrifice Jesus. He wasn't the one that was willing to sacrifice Jesus………

Then in what way did God GIVE His only begotten Son?  (John 3:16)

1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 08 2011,06:51)

God gave him the command that he did not have to do this.

So God gave a command to God?  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,09:48)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2011,11:18) Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me This scripture is about the Father preparing a body for His Son. No Mike No! Jesus said those words to His Father. Right.

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he [CHRIST] said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me [CHRIST];
Who is Jesus speaking to in Paul's teaching?  It was THAT person who prepared a body for Christ.

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,09:48)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Because I'm still wondering how you think Luke 10:22 is saying Jesus is God. Mike with this scripture,Jesus is making it clear that know one knows who actually God is, although there's the Father and the Son,and  the last part which says: and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.” It is clear that since in  John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me Therefore Jesus is the solution to know God.

That's right Charles.  We can know God THROUGH His Son Jesus.  (John 1:18)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,09:48)

The truth about the Father you will achieve only through Jesus. So knowing Jesus Knowing God.

You are correct that we can only come to God THROUGH Jesus.  But if “knowing Jesus is Knowing God”, then why would we have to come THROUGH Jesus to get to God?  Wouldn't we have already made it all the way to God just by getting to Jesus?

And if we have already gotten all the way to God when we reach Jesus, who is this “other God” we have to go THROUGH Jesus to get to?

peace,
mike

[carmel]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2011,13:01)

Mark and Charles, We are continually addressing YOUR posts.  Will you address Micah 5:4, and tell me why “God Almighty Jesus” will rule in the strength and name of HIS OWN GOD? (Mark, you made one response to this point, but have not addressed my response TO your response.) Also, will BOTH of you directly answer this question? Does God Almighty have a God of his own?  YES or NO? Thanks, mike

Mike,

Quote

Does God Almighty have a God of his own?  YES or NO?[/

. Yes. .  Now read How:

No Mike not the way you put it only, but also the way God revealed it to others in order to see that Jesus is God.

You are not considering that Jesus on earth was both as man and as God.

Purposely to transform our filthy Satanic flesh and blood body into a Mystical Godly body.
Who denies this, is automatically states that God in Jesus failed, and God never succeeded in achieving His deity within a human body.

There isn't any entity in between, Jesus is either Lord God in human flesh on earth or absolute liar, deceiver, or antichrist.

Now let's read Micah 5:4, since it seems so fundamental to you  of all the scriptures there are, which should leave no doubt about your belief.

Micah 5:4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

All this is a reference to Jesus glorified in mystical body.

This scripture is stating that Jesus will be

IN THE STRENGTH OF THE LORD

IN THE MAJESTY OF THE NAME OF THE LORD HIS GOD.

obvious because He will glorify and will be in command of both heaven and earth,

as the only Almighty God in mystical body. WHICH HE IS NOW!! OK!

AND THEY SHALL ABIDE:  obvious( GOD THE FATHER IN SPIRIT,AND GOD THE SON IN MYSTICAL BODY, TWO IN ONE ,TWO TO BECOME ONE ,BOTH GLORIFIED)

FOR NOW SHALL HE BE GREAT UNTO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH.

Obvious as He is now ALMIGHTY GOD IN MYSTICAL BODY up to the last day of the Lord.

 John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you  

That's where comes Hebrews which is clear enough that it is a reference to Jesus glorified as God in His Mystical Body, till His God the Father, through the Holy Spirit ,put all His enemies as His footstool.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Please don't rush to reply,it needs some reflections.

Now Mike read this scripture and explain How Jesus Himself is stating that He sent the prophets, and wise men, and scribes, while He was not ,according to you, in existence.

Matthew 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes:

peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,10:50)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 07 2011,13:01) Does God Almighty have a God of his own?  YES or NO? Yes.

That would make TWO Gods then.  Plus, it would nullify the meaning of the word ALmighty – which means “God Most High”.  Is Jesus “God Most High”, or the SON OF that One?  (Mark 5:7)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,10:50)

You are not considering that Jesus on earth was both as man and as God.

That's because he wasn't.  He was the Son OF God on earth that his own God SENT to the earth as an atoning sacrifice.  He was a prophet and servant OF God who told us that our God was the same Being as his own God.

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,10:50)

This scripture is stating that Jesus will be IN THE STRENGTH OF THE LORD IN THE MAJESTY OF THE NAME OF THE LORD HIS GOD. obvious because He will glorify and will be in command of both heaven and earth, as the only Almighty God in mystical body. WHICH HE IS NOW!! OK!

This scripture does not say Jesus IS God, but that Jesus will rule in the strength and name of HIS OWN God.

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,10:50)

That's where comes Hebrews which is clear enough that it is a reference to Jesus glorified as God in His Mystical Body, till His God the Father, through the Holy Spirit ,put all His enemies as His footstool.

So Jesus IS God, yet HIS OWN God will place his enemies at his feet?  

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,10:50)

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

First of all, that scripture is just as faithfully translated as “God is your throne forever and ever” – as many scholars will attest.

Secondly, even translated as the KJV does it, you have to acknowledge verse 9, which makes it clear that the “God” mentioned in verse 8 has a God of HIS OWN that placed him above his companions. Those words could NEVER apply to God Almighty.

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,10:50)

Now Mike read this scripture and explain How Jesus Himself is stating that He sent the prophets, and wise men, and scribes, while He was not ,according to you, in existence. Matthew 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes:

When did I say Jesus was “not in existence”?    And could you tell me how Jesus sending his disciples into the world makes him God Almighty?

peace,
mike

[carmel]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2011,10:18)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 06 2011,23:29) ……..which it doesn't work since Jesus created all whatever was created.Even all the spiritual creatures. ………Jesus the creator of all……… Hi Charles, First, we have to do away with some unscriptural beliefs you have………….like “Jesus created all”.   Scripture says that God created all THROUGH Jesus.  It doesn't say that Jesus “created” anything at any time. Quote (carmel @ Oct. 06 2011,23:29) Through this insight put the Son of God always within the Father as a spirit being like He stated in John 17 John 17 :5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. The scripture you listed doesn't come close to actually saying what you claim it says.  Rather, it says that Jesus, who we know is the Holy Servant of God, had glory alongside his God before the world was. peace, mike

Quote

The scripture you listed doesn't come close to actually saying what you claim it says.  Rather, it says that Jesus, who we know is the Holy Servant of God, had glory alongside his God before the world was.

Mike that your definition in your own worldly wisdom.

Your definition of Holy servant of God doesn't proof that Jesus wasn't equal and one God with the Father.

Let's see all that statement:

glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

What actually “WITH YOUR OWN SELF”  mean???

I referred to the interlinear (pasted here under)and it says clear enough that ,

it means,RESPECTIVELY OF(WITH,TO)THYSELF

Therefore,Jesus asked His Father to glorify Him respectively with Himself,which to me it means glorification within God,one glorification.

Then He carries on and concluded within the same sentence and context  to indicate that it is the same glory, and stated :

with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

So the glory was always the same one glory for both the Father and the Son, within One God.

4572 seautoú (from 4571 /sé, “you” and 846 /autós, “self”) – properly, relating to yourself, as you bring the action (attention) back to (on) yourself.

Word Origin
refl. pronoun from su and autos
Definition
of (to, for) yourself
NASB Word Usage
own conviction (1), own self (1), yourself (38).

accusative case seauton seh-ow-ton', likewise contracted sautou (sow-too'), sautoi (sow-to'), and sauton (sow-ton'), respectively of (with, to) thyself — thee, thine own self, (thou) thy(-self

Regarding “JESUS CREATED ALL” I never meant that Jesus created all by Himself,and you should know enough,and realized that it was a mis print,and if you refer to all my posts,I always added the words “WITH THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT FROM THE FATHER”  

I have been posting regarding this subject quite a lot and it is a proof that I never stated that.

peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

[mikeangel]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2011,03:15)

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 07 2011,20:26) Ok. You say it wasn't Jesus speaking from the throne in 21. All through Revalations Jesus speaks to John but he gives a break to his Father here. I can wrap my head aroudn that, although I do not think it is true. Lets go to Revalation 22. 22:12-“Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each as his conduct deserves.  I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA, THE FIRST AND THE LAST, THE BEGINNING AND THE END! ……………V16 IT IS I JESUS, WHO HAVE SENT MY ANGEL TO GIVE YOU THIS TESTIMONY ABOUT THE CHURCHES.”   Was this Jesus speaking Mikeboll? Jesus started speaking in verse 16, Mark.

He started speaking in v 12. Clearly he was referring to his glorious return, and his complete authority. The first words are V 12 Remember, I am coming soon! . This is reinterated in v 20 without a doubt,” “Yes, I am coming soon!” Amen! come LORD JESUS! ” This comfirms that it was Jesus. Peace

[terraricca]

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,23:47)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2011,08:38) Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,15:11) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2011,04:55) Charles Quote Ok they are one God The Father works in Jesus,and Jesus works through His Father within Himself. Therefore all scriptures are references to Both the Father and the Son. They were always divinely one GOD. THEY ARE INSEPARABLE. Therfore the Glory is to both in themselves. I respect your understanding. so you don't know what is the glory of God and of Christ ?right Pierre, please refer to my post again. I stated that it is the same one glory for both. Jesus Himself stated IN JOHN 17:10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; Charles that s sound like Chinese to me ,so it does not make sense, Quote 1)Ok they are one God The Father works in Jesus,and Jesus works through His Father within Himself. 2)Therefore all scriptures are references to Both the Father and the Son. They were always divinely one GOD. THEY ARE INSEPARABLE. the item 1 please explain with scriptures the item 2 is this your opinion ? or scriptural if so where ? and by the way i never ask you to whom the glory belongs BUT WHAT ARE THOSE TWO GLORY'S pierre, I already stated that I will respect you uderstandings But at least comment specifically not just state Chinese. Peace and love in Jesus christ Charles

Charles

but you do not answer my questions ,even wen I try to understand ,could you explain it please ??

[mikeangel]

He stated before in Rev 2:8 “the first and the last who once died but now lives”

[mikeangel]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2011,03:11)

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 07 2011,20:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2011,11:41) But what did you think about this one? Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. I await your response, Mark. Because  God was in him with him and through him……… That's right, Mark.  Our ONE God was “in him and through him”.  ONE Being was IN and THROUGH a DIFFERENT being.

Ambigious. How is one in and through, but differant?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,12:33)

Mike that your definition in your own worldly wisdom. Your definition of Holy servant of God doesn't proof that Jesus wasn't equal and one God with the Father.

A servant OF God is NOT the God he serves, Charles. This is just basic common sense.

Can you list any other SERVANT of someone who WAS that someone?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,12:33)

What actually “WITH YOUR OWN SELF” mean??? I referred to the interlinear (pasted here under)and it says clear enough that , it means,RESPECTIVELY OF(WITH,TO)THYSELF Therefore,Jesus asked His Father to glorify Him respectively with Himself,which to me it means glorification within God,one glorification.

The NRSV puts it best:
John 17:5
So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed.

Your understanding is at best a FAR stretch, at worst complete gibberish.

Charles, if the Father and the Son share the SAME glory, then why, when the Word became flesh, did he have – NOT the glory of God – but the glory of God's only begotten?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 08 2011,14:54)

He started speaking in v 12. Clearly he was referring to his glorious return, and his complete authority. The first words are V 12 Remember, I am coming soon! . This is reinterated in v 20 without a doubt,” “Yes, I am coming soon!” Amen! come LORD JESUS! ” This comfirms that it was Jesus. Peace

Why? Isn't the Father also said to be “coming soon” all throughout scripture? In fact, Revelation shows that BOTH the Father God AND the Lamb He sacrificed for us will be coming soon.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 08 2011,14:57)

He stated before in Rev 2:8 “the first and the last  who once died but now lives”

And what does that mean, Mark? Because I don't see the words “to exist” there, do you?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 08 2011,14:59)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2011,03:11) Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 07 2011,20:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2011,11:41) But what did you think about this one? Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. I await your response, Mark. Because  God was in him with him and through him……… That's right, Mark.  Our ONE God was “in him and through him”.  ONE Being was IN and THROUGH a DIFFERENT being. Ambigious. How is one in and through, but differant?

Are you kidding?

Ephesians 4:6
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

God the Father is in and through ALL, Mark. Does that mean that “ALL” are God Almighty?

[carmel]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 09 2011,07:57)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,23:47) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2011,08:38) Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,15:11) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2011,04:55) Charles Quote Ok they are one God The Father works in Jesus,and Jesus works through His Father within Himself. Therefore all scriptures are references to Both the Father and the Son. They were always divinely one GOD. THEY ARE INSEPARABLE. Therfore the Glory is to both in themselves. I respect your understanding. so you don't know what is the glory of God and of Christ ?right Pierre, please refer to my post again. I stated that it is the same one glory for both. Jesus Himself stated IN JOHN 17:10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; Charles that s sound like Chinese to me ,so it does not make sense, Quote 1)Ok they are one God The Father works in Jesus,and Jesus works through His Father within Himself. 2)Therefore all scriptures are references to Both the Father and the Son. They were always divinely one GOD. THEY ARE INSEPARABLE. the item 1 please explain with scriptures the item 2 is this your opinion ? or scriptural if so where ? and by the way i never ask you to whom the glory belongs BUT WHAT ARE THOSE TWO GLORY'S pierre, I already stated that I will respect you uderstandings But at least comment specifically not just state Chinese. Peace and love in Jesus christ Charles Charles but you do not answer my questions ,even wen I try to understand ,could you explain it please ??

Pierre ,
be specific pleas.

Which you didn't understand??

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

[Author]

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