Charles' Jesus is God Proof Texts

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Jan. 04 2012,21:24)

WOW! mike wants to find the greek word nature in john 1:1

That's right, jammin.  Could you please show me where the words “nature” or “essence” are in the Greek text of John 1:1?  (If you can't, then let's not write our own scripture by ASSUMING John meant “same nature as God” when he didn't actually WRITE “same nature as God”, okay?)

Quote (jammin @ Jan. 04 2012,21:24)

YOU HAVE FOUR CHOICES NOW MIKE. 1 GOD 2 a god 3 divine 4 god-like

You mean WE have four choices, right?   Okay, I'll accept your 4th choice for the sake of argument.

1.  GOD – Eliminated by the Trinitarian scholars of NETNotes, and by common sense, because of 1:1b, “the Word was WITH God“.

2.  a god – Not only possible, but very much the truth of the scriptures, as Jesus was called “god” in three different scriptures besides John 1:1.  (Is 9:6, John 1:18, John 20:28)

3.  divine – Since you believe in the divinity of God's “good” angels, there is no reason to think Jesus isn't also divine, right?  But since you don't think any of the other divine angels ARE God Himself, there is also no reason for you to think Jesus would be.  

But we have to eliminate this one as well, jammin, because “divine” is an adjective, and your own Trinitarian scholar pointed out that “theos” is NOT written in the adjectival form in 1:1c.

4.  godlike – Also eliminated by your scholar, for the same reason as stated in #3.

That leaves just one possibility that wasn't eliminated by TRINITARIAN scholars, jammin.  

Quote (jammin @ Jan. 04 2012,21:24)

mike said: Christ is the anointed one OF God. it's true mike. and HE IS GOD!

jammin, does it really make sense to you that the one God anointed, sent, sacrificed and raised IS the God who anointed, sent, sacrificed and raised him?  

[carmel]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2012,11:17)

Quote (carmel @ Dec. 31 2011,12:59) THEREFORE: BEHOLD I AND THE CHILDREN JESUS MAN GOD HAS GIVEN ME! Sorry Charlie, It is Jesus doing the speaking, and he is saying, “Here I (Jesus) am, and the children (of God, as we all are) God has given me (out of the world).” It is a quote of Isaiah 8:18, and is supported by this scripture: John 17:6 [ Jesus Prays for His Disciples ] “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. No twisting necessary, Charles.

Quote

[It is Jesus doing the speaking, and he is saying, “Here I (Jesus) am, and the children (of God, as we all are) God has given me (out of the world It is a quote of Isaiah 8:18, and is supported by this scripture: John 17:6 [ Jesus Prays for His Disciples ] “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. No twisting necessary, Charles.

Now Mike, hereunder,as we all know,scriptures prove that God was only the God of Israel.

Exodus

3:18 The Lord GOD OF THE HEBREWS hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days' journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the LORD OUR GOD.

4:22 Thus saith the Lord, ISRAEL IS MY SON even my firstborn: 23And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me.

5:1 Thus saith the LORD GOD OF ISRAEL, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness.

6:7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be TO YOU A GOD: and ye shall know that I am the LORD YOUR GOD,

It is clear enough no?

Now as you might know Israel, Adam's descendants were the Carnal Church

Now  since the soul was dead through sin in Satan’s Spirit, we became the children of Eve, the mother of all the living in the flesh only, Satan’s property. Keep this in mind. I repeat humans were alive in the flesh not in the soul, God's property!

1John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life,…………..

Now read Ezekiel and reflect on my questions Mike.

Ezekiel 37:27 And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be THEIR God, and they shall be my people.

Why did He Himself in Exodus 3:18 ,4:22, 5:1, and 6:7 confirmed that He was THEIR GOD, and they were His preferred people, then more then 1000 years after through Ezekiel, 37:27 “I will be their God”   He again  shouted that in the future He would be their real true God???

THE TABERNACLE WASN’T ALREADY WITH THEM, it used to be carried along with them , WAS NOT HE THEIR GOD THEN ,AND THEY WERE NOT HIS PEOPLE THEN,  WAS HE USELESS AS A SPIRIT BEING in that moment in time OR NOT??

OR ACTUALLY ALL THE OT. AS Jesus Himself DECLARED THAT IT WAS MEANT ONLY TO PROPHECY THAT GOD WOULD BECOME FLESH IN THE BODY OF JESUS, and not to make the Jews holy

Does this mean after all, that He was not really THEIR God yet, considering the fact that  the soul was dead, and only the flesh was alive, which has nothing to do with God???

Was that the reason that so  many times in the OT this God kept on  saying that He would be THEIR  God???

What is the difference from the God of Moses,  when He freed them from the Egyptians, and the God that through Ezekiel was referring to??

Wasn’t He the same God, the one of Moses, and the one through Ezekiel prophecy??

Did He mean a completely different God from the one already He Himself confirmed that He was in Exodus, which also includes His unpronounced and confused names, which none of them were accepted by Jesus in the NT, considering John 17:6  

I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world

From the other hand, if He was the same God, what was He referring   to then with the statement I WILL BE THEIR GOD??

Let's read verse 37:28 now!

Ezekiel 37:28 And the nations shall know that I am the Lord, the SANCTIFIER OF ISRAEL when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for ever.

Hmmmmm. SO AFTER ALL HE WAS UNKNOWN, NO?? OR THERE MUST HAVE BEEN ANOTHER LORD IN DESGUISE THEN???

That’s why all the shouting then!!!

So the only way out for God Almighty to be established  AMONG HUMANS,AND BECOME THEIR TRUE GOD, and the Nations will know that He is the true Lord God ,was to BECOME FLESH HIMSELF  since He was rather USELESS,IGNORED, OR UNKNOWN AS A SPIRIT.

Not only that but He WOULD SANCTIFY  Israel ( His NEW SPIRITUAL church) through HIMSELF IN JESUS CHRIST BODY though, THROUGH HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS, OTHERWISE IT WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE both for God almighty TO BE THEIR REAL TRUE GOD,and also for  HUMANS TO BECOME HOLY.

BEING A SPIRITUAL GOD, LIKE ALL THE REST OF ALL THE GODS IN THE OT. GOD ALMIGHTY was RATHER HANDICAPPED!!

For the simple reason, that for dead souls meant nothing BEING A SPIRITUAL GOD. Since humans were only alive in the flesh, they only accept a GOD IN FLESH LIKE THEM, LIKE JESUS WAS.

NO wonder, that even King Solomon got fed up and swapped Him at the end, it was useless for God to make him the most genius, he became the most barmy. Obvious he was a filthy carnal being.  

OK Mike, in Ezekiel, He was serious, He  meant to be really THEIR GOD BUT AS A HUMAN BEING ,THEIR OWN SUBSTANCE,THAT'S WHY THEIR GOD

And also in THE MIDST OF THEM     FOR EVER!!! Like He is in Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit.

NOT LIKE THE MYSTERIOUS TABERNACLE OF THE OT,WHICH ON JESUS DEATH THE CURTAIN WAS SPLIT FROM TOP TO BOTTOM.

Got it Mike ?

NOW GOD ALMIGHTY, IS PLEASED AND HAD ESTABLISHED HIMSELF WITHIN HUMANS FOREVER, BUT THROUGH HIMSELF AS A HUMAN BEING IN JESUS THE SANCTIFIER, THEIR HUMAN GOD WHO SANCTIFIED ALL THOSE WHO ACCEPT HIM AS THE SAVIOUR GOD!!
AND made THEM BROTHERS and SISTERS TO HIMSELF,AND CHILDREN OF THE SPIRITUAL GOD ALMIGHTY.

WHEN SATAN UNAWARE WHO JESUS WAS, TOOK HIM FROM THE CROSS AS A CRIMINAL,SINCE IT WAS HIS PROCEDURE TO DO SO AS THE OWNER OF DEAD SOULS, AND FLESH

HE WAS STUNNED,WHEN HE SAW JESUS IN FLESH AND BONES IN THE FIRE AND NOT BEING CONSUMED,LIKE THE BUSH WHICH MOSES SAW.

HE HAD   ONLY THESE WORDS TO SAY:

MY LORD AND MY GOD

SO YOU ARE WRONG MIKE!!

It is God Almighty doing the speaking, and He is PLEASED AND GRATEFUL TO JESUS AS HIS FLESH BODY THE CARIER OF HIS SPIRIT  saying,  “

HERE ( THE FATHER) I AM  AND THE CHILDREN (OF THE TRUE) GOD (AND JESUS CHRIST) HAS GIVEN ME ( SANCTIFIED THROUGH HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS) AS IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ME TO ACHIEVE THAT AS A SPIRITUAL GOD ONLY.

PEACE AND LOVE IN JESUS

CHARLES

[jammin]

mike i just showed you your own reference. some of the svnty scholars said christ had the same nature as GOD. THAT IS YOUR REFERNCE. NEXT TIME IF YOU GIVE A REFERENCE,MAKE SURE IT WILL NOT DISAPPOINT YOU HAHAHA. your reference said in john that christ had the nature as GOD. this is also supported by paul in phil. the greek word for GOD IS THEOS. THEOS MEANS DEITY OR NATURE ACCORDING TO STRONG GREEK LEXICON. therefore the translation in john christ had the same nature as GOD MEANS CHRIST WAS GOD!!! thomas said GOD NOT a god wahahaha. study hard mike

[jammin]

2316. theos theh'-os of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:–X exceeding, God, god(-ly, -ward).
reference: Strong's Greek Lexicon

deity means the nature or character of God

now ill put your refernce here mike
http://simplebibletruths.net/70-John-1-1-Truths.htm

(16) Philip Harner, “The Word had the same nature as God”

Journal of Biblical Literature ( JBL ), Vol. 92,1974-http://fdier02140.free.fr/Harner.pdf — actual article

http://www.sbl-site.org/publications & http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=3323
(19)  Translator's NT,  “The Word was with God and shared his nature”

British and Foreign Bible Society, London, 1973,·  Hardcover: 582 pages

Publisher: British and Foreign Bible Society (January 1973) ·  Language: English -·  ISBN-10: 0564049913
(20)  Barclay,  “When the world began, the Word was already there.

The Word was with God, and the nature of the Word was the same as the nature of God.”

(BNT) Barclay New Testament (1969). -Collins (vol. 1 in 1968; vol. 2 in 1969 Tyndale House, Cambridge, United Kingdom

cant you see that in your reference mike? hahahahahah
now according to strong GOD means a deity!

ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 1
1εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

that's what the greek lexicon said mike. hahahahah

GOD is theos in greek meaning deity or nature

study hard mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Jan. 06 2012,10:36)

I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world

Hi Charles,

Your entire post can be addressed by addressing this one part above.

To whom was Jesus referring when he said those words?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Jan. 06 2012,10:36)

It is God Almighty doing the speaking, and He is PLEASED AND GRATEFUL TO JESUS AS HIS FLESH BODY THE CARIER OF HIS SPIRIT  saying,  “ HERE ( THE FATHER) I AM  AND THE CHILDREN (OF THE TRUE) GOD (AND JESUS CHRIST) HAS GIVEN ME ( SANCTIFIED THROUGH HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS) AS IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ME TO ACHIEVE THAT AS A SPIRITUAL GOD ONLY.

No Charles,

It is Jesus speaking about those God has given him out of the world.  

John 17:6
[ Jesus Prays for His Disciples ] “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

WHO gave them to Jesus?  WHO owned them before giving them to Jesus?  WHOSE word have they obeyed?

You need only read verse 1 for the answer:
John 17:1
After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:  “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.

Charles, can you not see that Jesus was PRAYING this to HIS OWN GOD, THE FATHER?  

[mikeboll64]

jammin,

Can you or can you not show me the words “nature” or “essence” in the Greek text of John 1:1?

If you cannot, then any scholar that says John meant to say Jesus had the same nature as God is just, as you say, “making conclusions”. And it means absolutely NOTHING to me that many Trinitarian scholars WANT Jesus to be the God he is the Son of. In fact, I just roll my eyes and pray that God would undo the blinders Satan has put on those people.

Speaking of which,
2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see………..

If “theos” means “the nature or character of God” as you've posted, then what do you make of the verse above? 2 Cor 4:4 is speaking about SATAN as the god of this world. Does that mean SATAN also has “the nature or character of God”?

And what about the “many gods” mentioned in 1 Cor 8:5? Do they all have “he nature or character of God”?

It is you who needs to study a little harder, jammin.

[jammin]

mike we are talking here about john 1:1. are u blind? read the discussion .
according to the greek scholars mike, in john 1:1 speaks about nature of GOD. do you understand greek? are u greek scholar mike? do you have any books about greek language? if u dont have then study hard. listen to what the bible says

and by the way mike, if you read the bible make sure you understand the context. do not jump to the other verses.
satan is god of this world and not GOD.
in 1cor 8:5 we are talking about food sacrificed to idols! they are NOT GOD but gods! read the context moron!
it is different to john 1:1

in john 1:1 we are talking about the WORD who became flesh! and the WORD was GOD! we are speaking here the nature of christ before he became human. what is the nature of christ before he became man? i think you should read john 100times for you to understand .

study hard mike.
btw have you finished your assingments hahahahahah

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,08:58)

mike we are talking here about john 1:1.  do not jump to the other verses.

jammin, in order to understand the scriptures, you must take all of them into consideration.  

Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,08:58)

satan is god of this world and not GOD. in 1cor 8:5 we are talking about food sacrificed to idols! they are NOT GOD but gods!

Is Satan a man-made idol, jammin?  Or is he a real, live being?

I believe you have some questions to answer about 2 Cor 4:4 and 1 Cor 8:5.  Please do so.

Do the gods mentioned in these verse also have “the nature or character of God”?  YES or NO?  And if “NO”, then why not?

[carmel]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,01:30)

Quote (carmel @ Jan. 06 2012,10:36) It is God Almighty doing the speaking, and He is PLEASED AND GRATEFUL TO JESUS AS HIS FLESH BODY THE CARIER OF HIS SPIRIT  saying,  “ HERE ( THE FATHER) I AM  AND THE CHILDREN (OF THE TRUE) GOD (AND JESUS CHRIST) HAS GIVEN ME ( SANCTIFIED THROUGH HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS) AS IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ME TO ACHIEVE THAT AS A SPIRITUAL GOD ONLY. No Charles, It is Jesus speaking about those God has given him out of the world.   John 17:6 [ Jesus Prays for His Disciples ] “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. WHO gave them to Jesus?  WHO owned them before giving them to Jesus?  WHOSE word have they obeyed? You need only read verse 1 for the answer: John 17:1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:  “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. Charles, can you not see that Jesus was PRAYING this to HIS OWN GOD, THE FATHER?

Quote

Charles, can you not see that Jesus was PRAYING this to HIS OWN GOD, THE FATHER?

Mike,

Hereunder,Paul is speaking regarding the sanctification of all humanity through Jesus death.

IT SAYS CLEAR :who had brought many children into glory, OBVIOUS THROUGH JESUS THE SANCTIFIER BY HIS DEATH.

Now all those who accept Jesus and live holy like Jesus,would automatically become brothers and sisters to Jesus and children of God.

BUT it is through Jesus that they became children of God .

And the Father is grateful to Jesus  as MAN GOD in flesh THROUGH HIS OWN SPIRIT WITHIN JESUS BODY.

THAT WAS THE ONLY WAY OUT FOR GOD THE FATHER TO BE ACCEPTED BY MORTAL CREATURES IN FLESH

GOD THE FATHER COULD NEVER ACHIEVE THIS SINCE HE IS A SPIRIT ONLY.

AND THAT'S WHY HE IS GRATEFUL AND ALSO PRAISING THE ONLY GOD MAN IN, WITH,AND FOR  THE FATHER SPIRIT.

JOHN 17:6 HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SANCTIFICATION.

JESUS IN JOHN 17:6 IS GRATEFUL TO HIS FATHER SINCE HE GAVE HIM AS APOSTLES 11 OF HIS ANGELS FROM HEAVEN,THAT'S WHY HE SAID “THEY WERE YOURS AND YOU GAVE THEM TO ME”

WHERE IS YOUR MATURITY MIKE ,IF THEY WERE OF THE FATHER,THEY MUST HAVE EXISTED BEFORE JESUS BECAME MAN.

LIKE FOR INSTANT JOHN THE BAPTIST,HE WAS MICAHEL THE ARCHANGEL'S SPIRIT

Hebrews2: 10

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, who had brought many children into glory, to perfect the author of their salvation, by his passion. 11 For both he that sanctifieth, and they who are sanctified, are all of one. For which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying:

I'm sorry Mike

I am positively right,but since you cannot see it,I don't blame you it has to come from the Holy Spirit.

peace and love in Jesus.

Charles

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,02:15)

Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,08:58) mike we are talking here about john 1:1.  do not jump to the other verses. jammin, in order to understand the scriptures, you must take all of them into consideration.   Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,08:58) satan is god of this world and not GOD. in 1cor 8:5 we are talking about food sacrificed to idols! they are NOT GOD but gods! Is Satan a man-made idol, jammin?  Or is he a real, live being? I believe you have some questions to answer about 2 Cor 4:4 and 1 Cor 8:5.  Please do so. Do the gods mentioned in these verse also have “the nature or character of God”?  YES or NO?  And if “NO”, then why not?

mike they have different context.
go to gradeschool mike

are we talking about the WORD became flesh in 1cor 8:5?
are we talking about the WORD became flesh in 2cor 4:4?

     

christ had the same  nature as GOD before he became flesh (verse 14)
do you agree? if not, then what was he?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Jan. 07 2012,09:21)

Now all those who accept Jesus and live holy like Jesus,would automatically become brothers and sisters to Jesus and children of God. BUT it is through Jesus that they became children of God .

That is my hope, Charles: To become a BROTHER to Jesus and a SON to his God and our God. And yes, I hope to do that THROUGH the one God anointed as our savior.

How can you state something so scripturally true like the above, and then turn around and think you will become a SON to Jesus and a BROTHER to his God?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,09:56)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,02:15) Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,08:58) mike we are talking here about john 1:1.  do not jump to the other verses. jammin, in order to understand the scriptures, you must take all of them into consideration.   Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,08:58) satan is god of this world and not GOD. in 1cor 8:5 we are talking about food sacrificed to idols! they are NOT GOD but gods! Is Satan a man-made idol, jammin?  Or is he a real, live being? I believe you have some questions to answer about 2 Cor 4:4 and 1 Cor 8:5.  Please do so. Do the gods mentioned in these verse also have “the nature or character of God”?  YES or NO?  And if “NO”, then why not? christ had the same  nature as GOD before he became flesh (verse 14) do you agree? if not, then what was he?

Yes I agree, jammin.

I agree that Jesus has both the nature AND the character of his own God, Jehovah.  I believe that Michael, Gabriel, and two thirds of the angels have this same SPIRIT nature and RIGHTEOUS character.

And I believe that Satan and the third of God's angels that followed him have the same SPIRIT nature as their God.  They just don't have the same RIGHTEOUS character.

But pay attention here, jammin:  If one has the same nature AS their own God, then that one cannot possibly BE their own God.

I'm awaiting your response to the last “a god” post I made.  It seems that the TRINITARIAN scholars have excluded three of the four possible translations of 1:1, leaving “a god” as the ONLY one left.  Do you agree?

[jammin]

MIKE SAID: I agree that Jesus has both the nature AND the character of his own God, Jehovah.

now you agree that the translation john 1:1 nature of GOD is correct.
gabriel and other angels are not equal with GOD mike. christ is equal with GOD! hahahahaha

we have the same nature (man) mike, i cant be a man??? waahahahahahahaha

case closed mike hahahahahahahahah

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,10:17)

MIKE SAID: I agree that Jesus has both the nature AND the character of his own God, Jehovah. now you agree that the translation john 1:1 nature of GOD is correct.

No jammin. There is no word “nature” in John 1:1 at all. And besides, YOUR own TRINITARIAN scholar eliminated “divine” as a possibility. In fact, TRINITARIAN scholars are the ones who have eliminated all possibilities EXCEPT FOR “a god”.

Will you believe your own TRINITARIAN scholars or not, jammin?

[terraricca]

Mike

is this Jammin ,related to Justasking ?

he sure as the spirit of him

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Same spirit, but jammin believes the Son OF God is the God he is the Son OF.

JA at least knew Jesus is God's Son, and not God Himself.

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2012,04:51)

Quote (jammin @ Jan. 07 2012,10:17) MIKE SAID: I agree that Jesus has both the nature AND the character of his own God, Jehovah. now you agree that the translation john 1:1 nature of GOD is correct. No jammin.  There is no word “nature” in John 1:1 at all.  And besides, YOUR own TRINITARIAN scholar eliminated “divine” as a possibility.  In fact, TRINITARIAN scholars are the ones who have eliminated all possibilities EXCEPT FOR “a god”.   Will you believe your own TRINITARIAN scholars or not, jammin?

wahahahaha you are now confused!
you said that christ had the same nature as GOD. and now you said no in john 1:1 WAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

what was he mike before he became flesh? wahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahah
im laughing again mike ROFL

[mikeboll64]

TRINITARIAN scholars are the ones who have eliminated all possibilities EXCEPT FOR “a god”.

Will you believe your own TRINITARIAN scholars, jammin? YES or NO?

[jammin]

mike read again the discussion hahahahaha

[Author]

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