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you are trying hard mike to give wrong meanings to the scriptures hahahahaha
is satan divine??? is satan holy??? hahahahaha. do you belong to a cult group??? no one will agree to you that satan is holy or divine! hahahahah
for your additional knowledge mike. we have divine and fallen angels. those fallen angels are evil. they are not divine mike hahahahah.
i'm laughing mike. this is so elementary stuff.. hahahahahahahaha did you read well the verse in revelation i posted. hahahahah they are called satan's angels and NOT GOD'S ANGELS! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
SATAN HAS ANGELS TOO. DONT YOU KNOW THAT MIKE?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
they are called angels of satan because they are evil! they are not divine! GOD's angels are divine! hahahahahahahaMIKE I AM LAUGHING! HAHAHAHAHAHA
SO ELEMENTARY STUFF!Quote (carmel @ Dec. 24 2011,11:52) Mike, I will never consider the term “a god”
is a possible translation.
THE WORD WAS GOD to me is final.
No use to discuss further on it.
Okay then, Charles.You have shown your stubborness here. I have showed you the findings from TRINITARIAN scholars, who acknowledge “a god” IS one of the THREE possibilities of John 1:1. Also, the source you posted lists a scholar named Charles Dodd. I don't suppose it would change your mind if I quoted THEIR OWN scholar saying that “a god” is a possible translation, would it? Because he does say that.
If you are not willing to accept the truth of Greek grammar rules, as explained BY TRINITARIANS, then you will not be willing to accept the truth of scripture, either. So you are right that there is no need to discuss further on this, or any other matter.
It would be senseless for me to try and prove that the sky is blue to someone who won't accept it no matter what, just because he doesn't WANT it to be blue, despite the TRUTH of the matter.
Let me know if you are ever able to bring yourself to the truth of the three possible translations of 1:1. Until that time, any lengthy discussion with you will prove to be fruitless, and a waste of my time and resources.
I pray that God will grant you understanding someday,
mikeQuote (jammin @ Dec. 24 2011,18:43) job 1:6 is talking about divine angels. satan is not divine,
So in YOUR mind, God gathered to Himself all the divine angels, and He also invited the evil Satan along just for kicks?
Satan wasn't created evil, jammin. He was created as a beautiful, glorious son of God.
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 24 2011,19:14) Hebrews 1:8-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
8 But of the Son he says,(1)“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
(2)therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”10 And,
(3) “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
(1) Footnote from the CEV translation, which was translated by over 50 TRINITARIAN scholars:or…….”God is your throne forever and ever”
That also matches the way the NWT translates it.
(2) Why do Trinitarians always ignore this part of the passage? Is it hard for them to explain away the fact that the one they call “God Almighty” has a God of his own? Look at the words “anointed you”, jammin. God is the one who ANOINTED Jesus. That is why Jesus is the CHRIST OF GOD, not the God who anointed him in the first place.
(3) This part of the passage is said about Jehovah. Throughout the entire passage, Jehovah is the subject of the statements, such as “The Lord SAID THIS about the Son”, or “The Lord ALSO SAID THIS about angels”, etc. Since the Lord (Jehovah) is the subject of the entire passage, why would you think He is not the subject in verse 10?
I rephrased your statement: “That's the reason why the one who God anointed IS the very God who anointed him.”
And to that, you said: there is nothing wrong with the statement.
Are you for real?
The one whom God anointed IS the God who anointed him? Does that REALLY make sense to you, jammin? Quote (jammin @ Dec. 24 2011,19:23) for your additional knowledge mike. we have divine and fallen angels. those fallen angels are evil. they are not divine mike hahahahah.
i'm laughing mike. this is so elementary stuff.. hahahahahahahaha did you read well the verse in revelation i posted. hahahahah they are called satan's angels and NOT GOD'S ANGELS! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
SATAN HAS ANGELS TOO. DONT YOU KNOW THAT MIKE?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
they are called angels of satan because they are evil! they are not divine! GOD's angels are divine! hahahahahahahaMIKE I AM LAUGHING! HAHAHAHAHAHA
SO ELEMENTARY STUFF!
Really? You are laughing at me? I couldn't tell.jammin, who created “Satan's angels”?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2011,04:21) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 24 2011,18:43) job 1:6 is talking about divine angels. satan is not divine,
So in YOUR mind, God gathered to Himself all the divine angels, and He also invited the evil Satan along just for kicks?Satan wasn't created evil, jammin. He was created as a beautiful, glorious son of God.
the bible said that. divine angels. satan is not divine mike. read a verse! hahahahahaaccording to job 1:6, who are the sons of GOD, the divine angels or fallen angels???
is satan a divine angel or fallen angel mike? hahahahaha
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2011,04:38) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 24 2011,19:14) Hebrews 1:8-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
8 But of the Son he says,(1)“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
(2)therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”10 And,
(3) “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
(1) Footnote from the CEV translation, which was translated by over 50 TRINITARIAN scholars:or…….”God is your throne forever and ever”
That also matches the way the NWT translates it.
(2) Why do Trinitarians always ignore this part of the passage? Is it hard for them to explain away the fact that the one they call “God Almighty” has a God of his own? Look at the words “anointed you”, jammin. God is the one who ANOINTED Jesus. That is why Jesus is the CHRIST OF GOD, not the God who anointed him in the first place.
(3) This part of the passage is said about Jehovah. Throughout the entire passage, Jehovah is the subject of the statements, such as “The Lord SAID THIS about the Son”, or “The Lord ALSO SAID THIS about angels”, etc. Since the Lord (Jehovah) is the subject of the entire passage, why would you think He is not the subject in verse 10?
I rephrased your statement: “That's the reason why the one who God anointed IS the very God who anointed him.”
And to that, you said: there is nothing wrong with the statement.
Are you for real?
The one whom God anointed IS the God who anointed him? Does that REALLY make sense to you, jammin?
let me post the CEV translationHebrews 1:8
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
8BUT GOD SAYS ABOUT HIS SON,
“You are God,
and you will rule
as King forever!
Your [a] royal power brings about justice.
Footnotes:
Hebrews 1:8 Your: Some manuscripts have “His.”
DONT YOU SEE THE VERSE 8 MIKE??? IT SAYS BUT GOD SAYS ABOUT HIS SON! YOU ARE GOD! GOD DID NOT SAY THAT TO HIMSELF! ARE YOU BLIND??? HAHAHAHAHA
SEE HOW MIKE TWISTING THE WORD OF GOD! REPENT MIKE!
mike, GOD is not a throne. hahahaha.
your NWT is wrong. hahahahalet me post the NWT
HEBREWS 1:8
But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.according to NWT, GOD is your throne means GOD is a throne! hahahaha.
GOD is not a throne! hahahahaha. the heaven is the throne of GOD!Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the Throne of God” Matthew 5:34-35
PRAISE GOD!
GOD IS NOT THE THRONE! THE HEAVEN IS THE THRONE OF GOD!
THAT NWT IS A WRONG TRANSLATION! HAHAHAHA PRAISE GOD!
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2011,06:16) Quote (carmel @ Dec. 25 2011,00:32) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 24 2011,13:15) charles Pierre,
I will start from the end!
Explain to me how Jesus became the first born of all and before all? YES ACCORDING TO PAUL COL;1;13-15
He was born of whom,if there were no one?? HE WAS CREATED BY GOD HIMSELF
To be born, there must have been some one before Him. NO??THERE WAS GOD THE FATHER HE ALWAYS WAS
Who is this someone who was born of?? ARE YOU REFERRING TO JESUS ? BEING BORN OF MARIE AND WERE GOD IS HIS FATHER '
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote He was born of whom,if there were no one?? HE WAS CREATED BY GOD HIMSELF I asked born of, not created.
Scripture is clear the first born, not the first created!!
Find in scripture where it is clear that “Jesus was created”.
CharlesI do not care for wording ;
scriptures are saying that Christ was the first of God's creation or born or bring forth, or ………………..
the fact is Christ at one point was not their anywhere ,so God made him to be ,
Pierre
Quote the fact is Christ at one point was not their anywhere ,so God made him to be , Pierre,
Is this the kind of love you have for the one who gave you life???
Doesn't interest you to know the truth abouth Him???
Don't you care to know which road Jesus' Spirit took in order to appreciate more what He had to go through to give you a new birth through the sacrification of His own spirit, in order to give you a speck from His Spirit as your soul to abide within you??
And also to become like one of us in every sense except sin???
you said :at one point was not there anywhere?
?Explain through scriptures the meaning of the above.
Which point??
which moment??
Keep in mind that Jesus is the beginning of the first ever creation.
To put it clear Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit from the Father,created the first ever Angel whoever may be .
When therefore Jesus wasn't there at one point???
When you say He wasn't there do you mean He was not in existence???
Or He was not functioning.
ARE YOU THERE YOURSELF NOW??
ARE YOU IN YOUR MIND NOW??
ARE YOU WITHIN YOU UNDERSTANDING ALTHOUGH YOU EXIST???
peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 25 2011,17:18) the bible said that. divine angels. satan is not divine mike. read a verse!
Actually, the Hebrew text just says “sons of God”. It was an English translator that chose to render it as “divine angels” in the translation you quoted. Get your facts straight, jammin.Quote (jammin @ Dec. 25 2011,17:18) according to job 1:6, who are the sons of GOD, the divine angels or fallen angels
All angels are sons of God. They don't stop being God's sons because they messed up. Would YOUR son cease to BE your son if he murdered someone?Quote (jammin @ Dec. 25 2011,17:18) is satan a divine angel or fallen angel mike?
Do you think Satan had fallen at this time, jammin? Doesn't scripture say that once Satan had been kicked out of heaven, he was not allowed back there? Wasn't he completely banished to earth? Yet, in Job 1:6, Satan is in heaven with God, AMONG the OTHER sons of God who came to the gathering. In fact, Satan is the ONLY one mentioned as having a pleasant conversation with God. Do you think God makes a habit of asking evil, fallen angels where they've been and what they've been up to?I have been playing your games about this for so long now, I've forgotten what the point even is. Are we discussing whether or not Satan is a “son of God”?
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 25 2011,17:58) mike, GOD is not a throne. hahahaha.
your NWT is wrong. hahahahalet me post the NWT
HEBREWS 1:8
But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.according to NWT, GOD is your throne means GOD is a throne!
Let me educate you ONCE AGAIN, jammin.First of all, Hebrews 1:8 is a quote of Psalms 45:6. This is the CEV for Ps 45:6,
6You are God, and you will rule forever as king. [a] Footnote [a] says:
Or ” God has made you king, and you will rule forever.”jammin, I have a copy of the CEV that I read from cover to cover last year. When I get home, I will post exactly what it says as a footnote, because the internet copies of the various translations are updated all the time, and I cannot find that footnote any longer on the net. But I'm quite sure it says, “Or: God is your throne forever and ever”. I could be mistaken though, so I'll double check. (And if I was mistaken, I'll surely admit it to you.)
But, in the meantime, check out
this site. I'll post some of what is said there:Heb. 1:8 and Psalm 45:6, “God is thy throne.”
“But with reference to the Son: 'God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness'” The New World Translation.
In this particularly interesting verse, God is addressing the Son. The Greek construction of Hebrews 1:8 allows the text to be translated in two legitimate ways:
“God is your throne forever and ever….
and
“Thy Throne O God, is forever and ever…”In fact, the ASV, KJV, NIV, and NKJV all translated it as “Your throne, O God…”
When we look at the Hebrew, we see that there is no grammatical requirement for this translation, though it is considered to be the best translation by most translators. In and of itself, this is not conclusive because the context of this verse in Psalm 45 is dealing with a king which would make one wonder why he would be addressed as God.
jammin, knowing is half the battle. All I've done since you joined this site is try to give you ALL of the information from which you can then make your decision. But it seems you don't even WANT all of the info so that you can make an INFORMED decision. Instead, it seems that your mind has already been made up, no matter what the facts are. Is that the case, jammin?
Btw, you avoided my other point: Can God Almighty (which means “God MOST High”) possibly have a God of his own? Because the one in Hebrews 1:8 has a God of his own.
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 25 2011,17:59) GOD IS NOT THE THRONE! THE HEAVEN IS THE THRONE OF GOD!
Actually, both of them are metaphorical. God's throne is IN heaven, not “heaven itself”.Do you think all the angels who dwell in heaven dwell in the throne of God? When God's SERVANT Jesus sits down at the right hand of God's throne (Heb 12:2), do you suppose Jesus is OUTSIDE OF HEAVEN, since he is BESIDE God's throne, and not IN it?
Come on jammin. You're better than this, aren't you?
that NWT translation made GOD is your throne to support their doctrine. GOD is not the throne. what the bible tells us is the heaven is the THRONE OF GOD! therefore GOD is your throne is not the right translation for heb 1:8 hahahahaha
why dont you use other translation to make it clear for you. most of the translation says your throne o GOD! not GOD is your throne! hahahahaha. you are just using that NWT just to support your doctrine, hahahahah. you cant read that in the bible that GOD is the throne. hahahahahahahahah
mike:Do you think all the angels who dwell in heaven dwell in the throne of God? When God's SERVANT Jesus sits down at the right hand of God's throne (Heb 12:2), do you suppose Jesus is OUTSIDE OF HEAVEN, since he is BESIDE God's throne, and not IN it?
he did not sit at GOD mike just like your NWT says in heb 1:8 hahaahaha
it says RIGHT HAND OF GOD'S THRONE.see mike. GOD'S THRONE! NOT GOD IS THE THRONE. BUT GOD HAS A THRONE! PRAISE GOD!
MIKE: Actually, the Hebrew text just says “sons of God”. It was an English translator that chose to render it as “divine angels” in the translation you quoted. Get your facts straight, jammin.
me: answer my question mike. do not make excuses. is satan divine?? can you read in job 1:6 that the sons of GOD are also the fallen angels??? read a translation mike. ill wait hahahahahahahah
mike said:All angels are sons of God. They don't stop being God's sons because they messed up. Would YOUR son cease to BE your son if he murdered someone?
read a translation mike. ill wait. read a verse in job 1:6 that the fallen angels are also called the sons of GOD.
dont make conclusions mike. hahahaha. Why not address this part from the link I gave you then:
In and of itself, this is not conclusive because the context of this verse in Psalm 45 is dealing with a king which would make one wonder why he would be addressed as God.
Well jammin? Why would the writer of Psalm 45 be calling an earthly king “God”?
Also, if it was about God Most High, why would it go on to say, “God, YOUR God, has placed you above your companions”?
Does God Almighty have a God of His own, jammin? YES or NO?
mike: Do you think Satan had fallen at this time, jammin? Doesn't scripture say that once Satan had been kicked out of heaven, he was not allowed back there? Wasn't he completely banished to earth? Yet, in Job 1:6, Satan is in heaven with God, AMONG the OTHER sons of God who came to the gathering. In fact, Satan is the ONLY one mentioned as having a pleasant conversation with God. Do you think God makes a habit of asking evil, fallen angels where they've been and what they've been up to?
I have been playing your games about this for so long now, I've forgotten what the point even is. Are we discussing whether or not Satan is a “son of God”?
me: so you also believe that satan is a fallen angel. hahahahaha. and he is not part of the heavenly court. then why you are insisting that the sons of GOD in job 1:6 also referred to the fallen angels??? hahahahahahha.
that's why i tell you to read a translation that supports your conclusion mike. read a translation that the sons of GOD in job 1:6 also refers to the fallen angels. hahahahahaha. ill wait … hahahahahahaha
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