Charles&#39; Jesus is God Proof Texts

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2011,14:25)

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 08 2011,14:59)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2011,03:11)

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 07 2011,20:13)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2011,11:41)

But what did you think about this one?
Acts 2:22
“Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

I await your response, Mark.

Because God was in him with him and through him………

That's right, Mark. Our ONE God was “in him and through him”. ONE Being was IN and THROUGH a DIFFERENT being.

Ambigious. How is one in and through, but differant?

Are you kidding?

Ephesians 4:6
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

God the Father is in and through ALL, Mark. Does that mean that “ALL” are God Almighty?

MIKE ,

IN A WAY YES!

Quote

God the Father is in and through ALL, Mark. Does that mean that “ALL” are God Almighty?

READ JOHN 17:19:24

And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctifiedd in truth.

I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,

JESUS IS MAKING IT CLEAR THAT EVEN US WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE EQUALLY I REPEAT EQUALLY,SANCTIFIED.

21that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

GOT IT MIKE “THAT THEY MAY ALL BE ONE,JUST AS YOU ,FATHER ARE IN ME,AND I IN YOU,THAT THEY ALSO MAY BE IN US.

22The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,

MORE SPECIFIC AND ALSO ENPHASIZING THAT ALL WILL HAVE THE SAME GLORY

“EVEN AS WE ARE ONE”

23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.

HERE IT IS MORE ACCENTUATED WITH THE WORDS :THEY MAY BECOME PERFECTLY ONE, AND “LOVED THEM EVEN AS YOU LOVED ME” NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. UNFATHOMABLE!!

24Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.

THIS PARTICLAR STATEMENT IS EVEN MORE INCOMPREHENSIVE WHERE HE IS SAYING THAT THEY MAY BE WHERE JESUS IS AS PROOF OF THE GLORY HE ACQUIRED ON RESERRUCTION IN ORDER TO KNOW THE LOVE WHICH THE FATHER LOVED HIS SON BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. NOW REFERRING TO THE ABOVE ONE IT SAYS THIS:

“LOVED THEM EVEN AS YOU LOVED ME”

SO ALL WILL BE EQUALLY LOVED AS HIS SON.

MORE UNITED WITH THE FATHER THEN THAT WE COULDN'T EVEN DREAM IT,NEVER MIND EXPECT OUR CORRUPTED CARNAL FILTHY MIND TO DEFINE GOD CARACHTERISTICS.

MYSTERIOUSLY ALMIGHTY GOD BECOMES ALMIGHTY MULTY
GODS FOR GOD NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE!!

PEACE AND LOVE IN JESUS CHRIST

CHARLES

October 9, 2011 at 8:16 am#260290

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2011,14:21)

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 08 2011,14:54)

He started speaking in v 12. Clearly he was referring to his glorious return, and his complete authority. The first words are V 12 Remember, I am coming soon! . This is reinterated in v 20 without a doubt,” “Yes, I am coming soon!” Amen! come LORD JESUS! ” This comfirms that it was Jesus. Peace

Why? Isn't the Father also said to be “coming soon” all throughout scripture? In fact, Revelation shows that BOTH the Father God AND the Lamb He sacrificed for us will be coming soon.

Exactly Mike. All throughout scripture it testifies to this. They both are coming in Glory as one. Jesus will Judge. Jesus will be seen by all those on earth coming in Power and Great Glory on the clouds. JESUS WILL JUDGE YOU!!! Don't you get it? They are the same. They are both “The King”. They are both also mentioned as Shepard. This is possible for God to do, but apparently not possible for you to understand.

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Ezekiel 34:12 As a shepherd looks after his scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness.
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Ezekiel 34:22 I will save my flock, and they will no longer be plundered. I will judge between one sheep and another.
New International Version ©1984 by Biblica
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King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

JESUS!!!!

Psalm 23:1 A psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.
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Isaiah 40:11 He tends his flock like a shepherd: He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart; he gently leads those that have young.
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Ezekiel 34:2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the shepherds of Israel who only take care of themselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock?
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Ezekiel 34:11 “'For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I myself will search for my sheep and look after them.
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Ezekiel 34:23 I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd.
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John 10:2 The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep.
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John 10:14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me–
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John 10:15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father–and I lay down my life for the sheep.
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John 10:17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life–only to take it up again.
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John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
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John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
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Hebrews 13:20 May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep,
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1 Peter 2:25 For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
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Pay particular attention to Ezekiel-
Ezekiel 34:11 “'For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I MYSELF will search for my sheep and look after them.
How in the world can Jesus not be the Shepherd? It wasn't misunderstood for centurys. the Jews knew what was ment by him claiming to be who he was, that's why they killed him out of Jelousy. Now, in the last days, certain denominations have sprung up, just like scripture said of them, and have denied his oneness with his Father, saying he doesn't deserve to be worshipped and is only a man or prophet. this parable is for them-

Luke 19:11-27:

11 While the people were listening to these things, Jesus proceeded to tell a parable, because he was near to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately. 12 Therefore he said, “A nobleman went to a distant country to receive for himself a kingdom and then return. 13 And he summoned ten of his slaves, gave them ten minas, and said to them, ‘Do business with these until I come back.’ 14 But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We do not want this man to be king over us!’ 15 When he returned after receiving the kingdom, he summoned these slaves to whom he had given the money. He wanted to know how much they had earned by trading. 16 So the first one came before him and said, ‘Sir, your mina has made ten minas more.’ 17 And the king said to him, ‘Well done, good slave! Because you have been faithful in a very small matter, you will have authority over ten cities.’ 18 Then the second one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has made five minas.’ 19 So the king said to him, ‘And you are to be over five cities.’ 20 Then another slave came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina that I put away for safekeeping in a piece of cloth. 21 For I was afraid of you, because you are a severe man. You withdraw what you did not deposit and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 The king said to him, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked slave! So you knew, did you, that I was a severe man, withdrawing what I didn’t deposit and reaping what I didn’t sow? 23 Why then didn’t you put my money in the bank, so that when I returned I could have collected it with interest?’ 24 And he said to his attendants, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to the one who has ten.’ 25 But they said to him, ‘Sir, he has ten minas already!’ 26 ‘I tell you that everyone who has will be given more, but from the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 27 But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be their king, bring them here and slaughter them in front of me!’”
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You are saying Mike, IMO, that you will not have Jesus as King over you. He is not worthy to be worshipped or recognised as King. You are telling others, and arguing without ceaseing, that he is not God and “The King” of this world. v 27 would apply to you IMO.

BOTH of them are mentioned m
any times returning and having thier day. And when that happens, “the door will be barred”, and those who will not have him as King will be slaughtered in his presence. they are two differant representations of the same GOD. God willed it that way from the beginning of time, the first moment of existance. THAT IS WHAT THE BEGINNING IS!! You also asked what the first and last ment. This is it. It is a referance to God. Nothing was with God at the beginning except Jesus and thier Holy Spirit. After this world is gone, Literally they will be the only presence. They are everywhere, omnipresent.
Peace and Love-Mark

October 9, 2011 at 12:47 pm#260304

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2011,14:10)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,12:33)

Mike that your definition in your own worldly wisdom.

Your definition of Holy servant of God doesn't proof that Jesus wasn't equal and one God with the Father.

A servant OF God is NOT the God he serves, Charles. This is just basic common sense.

Can you list any other SERVANT of someone who WAS that someone?

Mike,

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The NRSV puts it best:
John 17:5
So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed.

You live with your modified bible,and I live with the most original.KJV OK?

John17:1 glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee.

According to you Who will glorify who in one instant,since the Father needs the Son to glorify Himself,and the Son needs His Father to glorify.

In respect to this and with human reasoning spiritually no one is superior to the other.

Quote

A servant OF God is NOT the God he serves, Charles. This is just basic common sense.

Can you list any other SERVANT of someone who WAS that someone?

Mike we as humans are not capable to assert,what the words “serves,or servant” qualify When applied within God wisdom.

If the Father glorifies the Son is the Father serving the Son,since Jesus asked His Father to do so???

Since Jesus Himself asserted this :

John 10:17 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.

Is He serving Himself as God since He stated :

I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.

How within human reasoning while He is dead He would have power to take it again Himself,unless He is God Himself,common sense No?

In Matthew 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes:

Within human reasoning how He was capable of sending prophets,scribes,and wise men on earth when He wasn't in existence?for someone like you!

Unless you be humble and accept the fact that God's wisdom is in no way to be compared with human wisdom,logic,and common sense

1 Corintians 20 Where is the wise?
where is the scribe?
where is the disputer of this world?
hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

October 9, 2011 at 3:15 pm#260323

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2011,03:41)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,09:48)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2011,11:18)

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me

This scripture is about the Father preparing a body for His Son.

No Mike No!

Jesus said those words to His Father. Right.

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he [CHRIST] said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me [CHRIST];
Who is Jesus speaking to in Paul's teaching? It was THAT person who prepared a body for Christ.

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,09:48)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

Because I'm still wondering how you think Luke 10:22 is saying Jesus is God.

Mike with this scripture,Jesus is making it clear that know one knows who actually God is, although there's the Father and the Son,and the last part which says:

and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”

It is clear that since in John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

Therefore Jesus is the solution to know God.

That's right Charles. We can know God THROUGH His Son Jesus. (John 1:18)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,09:48)

The truth about the Father you will achieve only through Jesus.

So knowing Jesus Knowing God.

You are correct that we can only come to God THROUGH Jesus. But if “knowing Jesus is Knowing God”, then why would we have to come THROUGH Jesus to get to God? Wouldn't we have already made it all the way to God just by getting to Jesus?

And if we have already gotten all the way to God when we reach Jesus, who is this “other God” we have to go THROUGH Jesus to get to?

peace,
mike

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 09 2011,03:41)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,09:48)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 08 2011,11:18)

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me

This scripture is about the Father preparing a body for His Son.

No Mike No!

Jesus said those words to His Father. Right.

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,09:48)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

Because I'm still wondering how you think Luke 10:22 is saying Jesus is God.

Mike with this scripture,Jesus is making it clear that know one knows who actually God is, although there's the Father and the Son,and the last part which says:

and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”

It is clear that since in John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

Therefore Jesus is the solution to know God.

That's right Charles. We can know God THROUGH His Son Jesus. (John 1:18)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 08 2011,09:48)

The truth about the Father you will achieve only through Jesus.

So knowing Jesus Knowing God.

And if we have already gotten all the way to God when we reach Jesus, who is this “other God” we have to go THROUGH Jesus to get to?

peace,
mike

Mike,

I'm afraid I 'll have to repeat:

Jesus said those words to His Father. Right.

He wasn't referring for the carnal body because that eventually would die, and both God in Jesus, and Jesus as man were within that body, temporary, and was never appropriate for Jesus, with a mortal body since as God is non mortal. In fact He himself massacred it to proof that it is useless.

He stated “I lay it down by myself”.

1 Corinthians 15 :50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;

So therfore He was referring to the glorified mystical Body that Jesus owns now, which was only possible after the destruction of the previous mortal body.

So if you are under the impression that Jesus was grateful to His Father, for having the flesh and blood body you are very wrong.

Jesus was grateful because He knew as God that eventually He will possess the mystical body which is the proper one suitable, and deservedly for God .

But my point is this:

since on the last day this glorified mystical body Jesus eventually would give it to the Father, why then Jesus stated that the body was prepared for Him, and not for His Father as you confirmed?? and also I agree.

Obvious,this is done in order for us to be aware, that Jesus and the Father were, and are always one God, since it will be owned both by the
Father and by the Son for eternity.

I don't know if I am clear enough this time.

Quote

But if “knowing Jesus is Knowing God”, then why would we have to come THROUGH Jesus to get to God? Wouldn't we have already made it all the way to God just by getting to Jesus?

And if we have already gotten all the way to God when we reach Jesus, who is this “other God” we have to go THROUGH Jesus to get to?

Now this time I want to make sure that I understand you!!

Jesus, not the Father , since He was human, will judge our soul after it leaves our body, and it would be placed temporary in the proper place in paradise. That’s the first personal judgment which is only for those who believed in Jesus.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

only through Jesus the God as Human,and this is vital for humans because Jesus is more tolerable onto us, His Mercy is unfathomable.

The parable of the fig tree is a perfect evidence for this.

Luke 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

8And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:

9And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

On the last Judgment both the Father and the Son as one God will judge all carnal bodies to establish their respective spiritual flesh in order to unite with the spiritual creatures for eternity and become one in the Father.

5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me

So Mike you have a clear picture that Jesus as Human God is the bridge to the Father the spiritual God .

When Jesus comes again in the world He would be in the Glory of the Father not as mercyfull, since He comes as the Father in the mystical body but as Justice to wipe out the entire evil for ever.

Isaiah 11:But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

6The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

October 9, 2011 at 4:27 pm#260333

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 09 2011,00:45)

MYSTERIOUSLY ALMIGHTY GOD BECOMES ALMIGHTY MULTY
GODS

God never changes, Charles. If we were all to become God Almighty with Him, that would signify a change in God.

Also, if we all BECOME God Almighty, then after all evil ones are destroyed out of heaven and earth, who then will be “our” servants and the ones “we” rule over?

The scriptures don't teach that we all will become a “multy God”, but that we will become SONS OF God and BROTHERS TO His own Son, Jesus Christ.

Now, back to the point of the thread: If Jesus is IN God, then Jesus isn't God Himself. If anyone is IN, OF, FROM, or WITH someone, then they can't possibly BE that someone they are IN, OF, FROM, or WITH.

October 9, 2011 at 4:37 pm#260336

Blocked

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 09 2011,02:16)

Exactly Mike. All throughout scripture it testifies to this. They both are coming in Glory as one.

God shares His glory with NO ONE – not even His own beloved Son. That is why when Jesus was made flesh, John and the others observed that he had a glory – NOT of God Himself – but of the only begotten OF God.

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 09 2011,02:16)

Jesus will Judge.

Yes. His own God has GRANTED him all authority to judge who is worthy to come to his own God.

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 09 2011,02:16)

They are both “The King”. They are both also mentioned as Shepard.

Yes. And David was also a shepherd and also a King – does that make HIM God also? Cyrus was also God's foretold messiah and shepherd – does that make HIM God also? Nebuchadnezzar and Artaxerxes were both called “the King of kings” – does that make THEM God also?

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 09 2011,02:16)

Ezekiel 34:23 I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd.

This says it all, Mark. WHO exactly will PLACE someone else over them? Surely it would make no sense for God to say He will PLACE HIMSELF over them, right? So OBVIOUSLY, the one who is doing the PLACING is God, and the one God PLACES over them is someone OTHER THAN the God who PLACED him over them.

Like I told Charles a while ago, I won't address 40 scriptures in one post. If you would like to hit me with one or two “Jesus is God” scriptures at a time, I will happily address each and every one of them.

peace,
mike

October 9, 2011 at 4:48 pm#260338

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 09 2011,06:47)

According to you Who will glorify who in one instant,since the Father needs the Son to glorify Himself,and the Son needs His Father to glorify.

In respect to this and with human reasoning spiritually no one is superior to the other.

We are told to do everything we do to glorify our Maker. And some of us will even be glorified by Him. Does that make us EQUAL to our Maker?

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 09 2011,06:47)

Mike we as humans are not capable to assert,what the words “serves,or servant” qualify When applied within God wisdom.

That is a weak argument, Charles. You can't just erase the common sense that God gave us by claiming “it could be different in heaven”. God is the One who taught us our understanding in the first place. Surely He would know how we'd understand a father/son relationship, being begotten and born, and being a servant of another.

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 09 2011,06:47)

How within human reasoning while He is dead He would have power to take it again Himself,unless He is God Himself,common sense No?

Jesus didn't raise himself up. His own God raised him from the dead, as many scripture testify.

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 09 2011,06:47)

Within human reasoning how He was capable of sending prophets,scribes,and wise men on earth when He wasn't in existence?for someone like you!

Why do you keep saying this? Of course Jesus was “in existence”.

October 9, 2011 at 5:01 pm#260341

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 09 2011,09:15)

Mike,

I'm afraid I 'll have to repeat:

Jesus said those words to His Father. Right.

Yes. Jesus said to his Father: “a body YOU (the Father) have prepared for ME (Jesus).

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 09 2011,09:15)

Obvious,this is done in order for us to be aware, that Jesus and the Father were, and are always one God, since it will be owned both by the Father and by the Son for eternity.

I don't know if I am clear enough this time.

Apparently not. But just know that Jesus is the Son OF God, not God Himself. Jesus now resides at the right hand OF God, not as God Himself. They each have their own separate thrones from which they rule.

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 09 2011,09:15)

So Mike you have a clear picture that Jesus as Human God is the bridge to the Father the spiritual God .

No, but if that WAS true, then you would STILL end up with TWO Gods, one human and one spiritual. Scripture teaches of only ONE God Almighty.

Now, you didn't really address my point, Charles. If we have to go THROUGH Jesus to reach God, then Jesus CAN'T POSSIBLY BE God, or we would have already reached God Himself just by making to Jesus.

I want to know, if we have already reached God Himself by the time we reach Jesus, then who is this OTHER GOD we must go THROUGH Jesus to reach?

peace,
mike

October 10, 2011 at 1:02 am#260372

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 10 2011,03:37)

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 09 2011,02:16)

Exactly Mike. All throughout scripture it testifies to this. They both are coming in Glory as one.

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 09 2011,02:16)

Jesus will Judge.

Yes. His own God has GRANTED him all authority to judge who is worthy to come to his own God.

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 09 2011,02:16)

They are both “The King”. They are both also mentioned as Shepard.

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 09 2011,02:16)

Ezekiel 34:23 I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd.

peace,
mike

You just do not get it. All these people you are listing would not be god, you are right, but they are mentioned in scripture as Kings and deliverers and conquers, but they ARE EARTHLY. ONLY JESUS WAS BORN THROUGH GOD. Please quit comparing earthly men to God's flesh and blood. At least blasphemy against him is forgiven though.

October 10, 2011 at 1:05 am#260373

Participant

Both sheperds came into being instantly, One is just a part of the whole of the other.. They are one.

October 10, 2011 at 1:13 am#260374

Blocked

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 09 2011,19:02)

ONLY JESUS WAS BORN THROUGH GOD.

That's right, Mark. Jesus (ONE being) was born (had a beginning) through God (A DIFFERENT Being who had no beginnning).

Mark, I have been SOLIDLY refuting each and every “Jesus is God” claim you've made so far. Will you ever stand and defend your doctrine against my rebuttals? Or will you just continue to post new information for me to scripturally refute?

When I refute something you've claimed, and you say nothing in response to my rebuttal, it seems to me that you agree that I'm right on that one. Is that the case?

October 10, 2011 at 1:16 am#260375

Blocked

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 09 2011,19:05)

Both sheperds came into being instantly, One is just a part of the whole of the other.. They are one.

So the Being of God Almighty sent “PART of Himself” to be a shepherd? And then that “PART of Himself” prayed to and glorified and praised the “OTHER PART” of himself? And then that “PART of Himself” died and was raised back to life by the “OTHER PART of Himself”?

Show me the scriptural words that teach this doctrine.

October 10, 2011 at 11:17 am#260396

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 10 2011,12:13)

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 09 2011,19:02)

ONLY JESUS WAS BORN THROUGH GOD.

That's right, Mark. Jesus (ONE being) was born (had a beginning) through God (A DIFFERENT Being who had no beginnning).

When I refute something you've claimed, and you say nothing in response to my rebuttal, it seems to me that you agree that I'm right on that one. Is that the case?

Thats what happened last time. You declare yourself proven. You didn't rebut all the things I gave you either. I have a thicker skin this time though. The only thing you have proven is the virgin birth and the origin of God doesn't mean a thing to you, and you vainly claim to understand him. You Ignore John 1:1 and do not realize that Jesus was with God in the beginning, and Everything else, universe complete, was created through THEM. You also don't give Jesus' own statement that when you see Him you see the Father any credit, making him out to be a liar or twisting and misinterpretating his words. You declare yourself differant from Thomas, wheras he says “My Lord and My God”, you say “you are not God”. You might say that I can't use just a few scriptures to base my beliefs but then do the same thing yourself. I also showed you scriptures, both out of the Old and New Testament, where Jesus and God are both the same, in being a Shepherd, in coming again etc. But you ignore that, make your claims, and declare yourself proven. You are a legend in your own mind IMO. Love, Mark

October 10, 2011 at 11:28 am#260399

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 10 2011,12:16)

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 09 2011,19:05)

Both sheperds came into being instantly, One is just a part of the whole of the other.. They are one.

Show me the scriptural words that teach this doctrine.

Ezekiel 34:11 “'For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I MYSELF will search for my sheep and look after them.
How in the world can Jesus not be the Shepherd? It wasn't misunderstood for centurys. the Jews knew what was ment by him claiming to be who he was, that's why they killed him out of Jelousy. Now, in the last days, certain denominations have sprung up, just like scripture said of them, and have denied his oneness with his Father, saying he doesn't deserve to be worshipped and is only a man or prophet.

We Know through John that Jesus was the good shepherd, and he spoke to Ezekiel in the 500s b.c. They were at that time literally one being in heaven, testified to by scripture here. He HUMBLED himself to become human to save us, and you cannot comprehed it, and preach and teach he does not deserve it, because he gave us an example in humility in worship while he was on earth. You haven't proven anything.

Scriptural Words- I MYSELF-Love Mark

October 10, 2011 at 3:27 pm#260408

terraricca

Participant

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 11 2011,05:28)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 10 2011,12:16)

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 09 2011,19:05)

Both sheperds came into being instantly, One is just a part of the whole of the other.. They are one.

Show me the scriptural words that teach this doctrine.

Scriptural Words- I MYSELF-Love Mark

Mark

“Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.
Jn 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.

Jn 17:6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
Jn 17:7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you

Look what Jesus says Mark is this not confirm Eze 34;11 ??

And Mark keep reading the scriptures without religion opinions you may find that the truth is still in the scriptures,

you came from afar ,I remember our discussions and how sure you where and yet find that truth lays with scriptures,but there is more to understand each time your eyes and heart sees more it open doors in more quantity than before each in need of an answer.

so do not be to quick to say no but test with scriptures as God make it known to you.

Pierre

October 10, 2011 at 6:26 pm#260425

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 10 2011,12:13)

Quote (mikeangel @ Oct. 09 2011,19:02)

ONLY JESUS WAS BORN THROUGH GOD.

That's right, Mark. Jesus (ONE being) was born (had a beginning) through God (A DIFFERENT Being who had no beginnning).

When I refute something you've claimed, and you say nothing in response to my rebuttal, it seems to me that you agree that I'm right on that one. Is that the case?

Mike,

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That's right, Mark. Jesus (ONE being) was born (had a beginning) through God (A DIFFERENT Being who had no beginnning).

As man Jesus must be born in order to be like us and redeem us,but without sin.

As devine He was one with the Father from eternity to eternity in every sense and power.
He is eternal life . He is the reserruction and life. therefore God in flesh.

The First and only (up to now) with a mystical body in the Glory of the Father with the power of the Holy Spirit.

That's how He would come to perform justice and wipe out all evil.

The Father remains in heaven as a spirit being.

He is in control of all that exist both spiritual and material.

peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

October 10, 2011 at 8:12 pm#260431

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 10 2011,03:48)

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 09 2011,06:47)

According to you Who will glorify who in one instant,since the Father needs the Son to glorify Himself,and the Son needs His Father to glorify.

In respect to this and with human reasoning spiritually no one is superior to the other.

We are told to do everything we do to glorify our Maker. And some of us will even be glorified by Him. Does that make us EQUAL to our Maker?

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 09 2011,06:47)

Mike we as humans are not capable to assert,what the words “serves,or servant” qualify When applied within God wisdom.

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 09 2011,06:47)

How within human reasoning while He is dead He would have power to take it again Himself,unless He is God Himself,common sense No?

Jesus didn't raise himself up. His own God raised him from the dead, as many scripture testify.

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 09 2011,06:47)

Within human reasoning how He was capable of sending prophets,scribes,and wise men on earth when He wasn't in existence?for someone like you!

Why do you keep saying this? Of course Jesus was “in existence”.

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No, but if that WAS true, then you would STILL end up with TWO Gods, one human and one spiritual. Scripture teaches of only ONE God Almighty.

NO MIKE NO,

STILL ONE ALMIGHTY GOD!

IT IS YOUR COMMON SENSE, YOUR LOGIC, YOUR WORLDLY WISDOM.

GOD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ALL THAT.

THE TERMS OF GOD ARE NOT TO BE COMPARED WITH CARNAL WORLDLY CORRUPTED TERMS.

The title God is a complete mystery to us, because we do not know its real function,what governs,and so on, like what Jesus Said no one knows who the Father is except the Son,and no one knows who the Son is except the Father.

GOD CAN ACHIEVE WHAT HE WANTS, HE HAS NO LOGIC,NO COMMON SENSE.

Now explain this with common sense,logic,and worldly wisdom:

Jesus stated:

John 6:Whose eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day

define:
(a) how all these millions of christians from Jesus time up to now ate Jesus' body ,and drank Jesus blood,when Jesus is only a human being as you believe???

(b) Also according to this only Christians will be in heaven,and have eternal life, since only them eat Jesus' flesh and drink
Jesus' blood.

now this:

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

How all Christians believe that within themselves with the power of the Holy Spirit abide the Father and the Son as whole God not as a fraction of God??

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Yes. Jesus said to his Father: “a body YOU (the Father) have prepared for ME (Jesus).

NOW MIKE WHICH BODY JESUS WAS REFERRING TO??

TO THE WON WHICH WAS CRUCIFIED,OR TO THE ONE WHICH WAS GLORIFIED??

IF TO THE ONE WHICH WAS CRUCIFIED, WHAT KIND OF ACHIEVEMENT FOR JESUS WAS SINCE HE WAS GOING TO DESTROY IT??

FROM THE OTHER HAND IF TO THE ONE WHICH WAS GLORIFIED,WHO WILL POSSESS EVENTUALLY THE GLORIFIED BODY ON THE LAST DAY??

OBVIOUSLY THE FATHER.

THEREFORE JESUS WAS ACTUALLY ACCREDITING IT TO THE FATHER WHEN HE SAID “A BODY YOU PREPARED FOR ME” AS PROOF THAT HE IS THE SAME ONE GOD,BUT AS MAN ON EARTH!

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Why do you keep saying this? Of course Jesus was “in existence”.

SINCE YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS WAS IN EXISTENCE,WHERE WAS HE MIKE, CONSIDERING THAT WE ARE REFERRING TO THE OLD TESTAMENT??

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Jesus didn't raise himself up. His own God raised him from the dead, as many scripture testify.

MIKE SCRIPTURES ALSO STATES THAT JESUS CLAIMS THAT HE WILL RAISE HIMSELF UP:

JOHN 2:19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

JOHN 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.

I WILL RAISE IT UP.

I AM THE RESURRECTION OK MIKE.

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God never changes, Charles. If we were all to become God Almighty with Him, that would signify a change in God.

Also, if we all BECOME God Almighty, then after all evil ones are destroyed out of heaven and earth, who then will be “our” servants and the ones “we” rule over?

The scriptures don't teach that we all will become a “multy God”, but that we will become SONS OF God and BROTHERS TO His own Son, Jesus Christ.

psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

John 10:34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

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I know Mike, your art of u
sing words,but as I said those do not apply to God only to human terms.

explain how all was created in Him,with Him, and for HIm,and to whom the word Him is referring?? to the Father or to the Son?

If to the Son how it is created for Him and not for the Father since at the very END all will be under Him??

If from the other hand it is to the Father How is it possible to be created in Him and with Him??

Now!

Mike you have a soul within you right ?

You also have a body?

which one is you??

Or aren't they both you??

Since you mentioned the thread read this:

psalm 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

If the only Judge would be Jesus.

If the only inheritor would be Jesus.

Therefore Jesus is God!

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God never changes, Charles

GOD ALTHOUGH STILL A SPIRIT,and will remain so , ALREADY HAS CHANGED HIMSELF SINCE HE GLORIFIED, and acquired the mystical body!!

That mystical body is integrated as one spiritual flesh body, and it is inseparable. Before He was a spirit only!!

GOD NEVER CHANGES MORALLY!

“who then will be our” servants and the ones “we” rule over?

AT THE VERY END MIKE THERE WON'T BE RULERS OR SERVANTS BUT ALL IN ONE ALMIGHTY GOD:

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

peace and love in Jesus Christ

Charles

October 10, 2011 at 9:23 pm#260438

Participant

Really liked your post Charles. I especially liked this part-

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Mike you have a soul within you right ?

You also have a body?

which one is you??

Or aren't they both you??

Keep it up! Good Job! Which part is he? Maybe his body is separate from his person? Maybe Mikeboll's body is lying somewhere and his spirit is somewhere typing on a computer? Good point.

October 10, 2011 at 9:37 pm#260443