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Here it seems that people bring on their own blindness by walking in the futility of their mind. They are excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance within them because of the hardness of their heart.
Ephesians 4
17So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, 18being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; 19and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. 20But you did not learn Christ in this way, 21if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, 22that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, 23and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
2 Peter 1
5Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. 10Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
Hi Pilgrim,
You said:
In 2 Corinthians 4:3 Paul is saying that “if the gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are LOST”. Now Jesus said “I am not sent but unto the LOST sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24) and again “For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was LOST.” (Luke 19:10). So the context of 2 Cor 4:4 is in relation to the LOST not the disobedient and rebellious.
I understand where you are coming from however, I don’t think the lost here, those who are perishing, are the sheep that are given to Jesus necessarily. I don’t know where you get that from the text. Not everyone who is perishing is a part of the lost sheep that Jesus has been given.
Consider this:
35Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him. 39And Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind.” 40Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, “We are not blind too, are we?” 41Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.
It seems there that Jesus came into the world to not only heal blindness but also give people over to blindness. For people that think they see but really don’t see, well, wouldn’t it be a loving thing for God to give them a good dose of blindness so they have a better chance of realizing that they don’t see so well after all and have need of the Savior. In other words, people who know they are weak and in need, they hope to be found. Then others think they are just fine and very religious and don’t need the gospel that is preached like the Pharisees were. Those Pharisees really need to be blinded in a serious way so that they will become weak and long for the Savior and rejoice when they hear the gospel preached. Can you see this view, Pilgrim?
Hi LightenUp,
The connection between LOST of 2 Cor 4:3 and Luke & Matthew where Jesus said he came to seek and save the LOST (the perishing) is simply to demonstrate it would not be God Almighty as the “god of this world” Of 2 Cor 4:4 who blinds the LOST since it is the LOST that Jesus came to save. No claim was made that all the Lost (perishing) are Jesus’ sheep or that all the lost are saved.
Be careful to read scripture in context. 2 Peter 1 is an exhortation to believers about the qualities they should be adding and has nothing to do with the Lost. Again Ephesians 4 is another exhortation to believers not to walk as Lost Gentiles walk who are under the influence of the Spirit Of Disobedience mentioned in Ephesians 2, from which the believer has been redeemed.
Hi Lu,
Do you believe that Jesus is satan in some way?
I’m afraid I must go back and remind you of my post in which I expected an answer whether you have read my post regarding
WHO SATAN IS.
Now I am posting again the post just in case you didn’t read ti all, and if you did read it, please say so. simply to put things MORE clear for you, not just say
YES or NO WHICH IN THIS CASE
BOTH ARE THE WRONG AND RIGHT ANSWERS
SINCE GOD IN “THE WORD” JESUS THE SON OF MAN IS A PERFECT PARADOX!
HERE IT IS:
YOU Satan is not the god of this world.
LU, from our perspective we believe that there’s one LOVING, GOOD, HOLY, ETERNAL God, though still, we don’t know what actually God is.
ONLY JESUS REVEALED ON EARTH IN HIMSELF,
IN HIS EMBODIMENT GOD ALMIGHTY!
Now myself I used LOVING, GOOD, HOLY and ETERNAL to make sure that I am referring to the
ONE and ONLY UNIQUE GOD ALMIGHTY!
The above FOUR QUALITIES were used by Jesus Himself in order to make us aware that
ONLY ONE GOD COULD HAVE THESE FOUR QUALITIES, as He knew that there were other genuine gods in heaven, despite they were creatures:
Thus when Paul mentioned Satan and said in
2Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, ….
He knew also what was He talking about, plus that Paul was aware of the truth in MORE details than others, CONFIRMED BY PETER, in
2Peter3:15 And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation: as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: 16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
in which are certain things hard to be understood,
Thus He knew that Satan’s existence and presence ON EARTH, was simply a camouflage, precisely of
“THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man, hidden in Satan as his life source,
SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD,Rev.13:8, and also
A TREASURE HIDDEN INA FIELD. Matthew 13:44 and many more scriptures which simply depicts
“THE WORD” JESUS’ MOST ASTOUNDING UNFATHOMABLE TASK AS A
SPIRIT/MEDIATOR , HIDDEN SEALED IN THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF CREATION John6:27
SIMPLY TO SUSTAIN ALL ACCORDING TO GOD’S WILL , AS
GOD ALL BY HIMSELF COULD NOT ACHIEVE THE PROCESS OF SINFUL AND
CURSED HUMAN BEINGS CARRIERS OF SATAN ALL BY HIMSELF.
SINCE HE WAS:
THE MOST HOLY, THE MOST GOOD, THE MOST LOVING, AND ETERNAL GOD.
THUS GOD ALL KNOWING BEFORE HE COMMENCED CREATION ESTABLISHED “THE WORD” Jesus the Son of Man to be,
ETERNAL LIFE ITSELF and also AS
THE BARRIER, MEDIATOR SPIRIT BETWEEN GOD AND HIS CREATURES ESPECIALLY BETWEEN THE IMPERFECT OR ELSE NONE OF THEM WOULD EXIST.
AS THE FATHER WOULD DEFINITELY DESTROY IMMEDIATELY ON THE LEAST SPECK OF IMPERFECTION WITHIN THEIR HEART, PRECISELY
THE ABODE OF “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man as a spirit. BY which spirit HE HELD ONTO HIM ALL THE EVIL COMMITTED BY ALL CREATURES, SIMPLY TO SERVE THEM, MERE IMPERFECT CREATURES, AND THEN REDEEM THEM AND MADE THEM
PERFECT, EVEN BY THEIR OWN WILL!
EMPOWERED AND ATTACHED TO BY THE HOLY GHOST, THE SOUL OF GOD, GOD’S ABODE, FROM WHERE THE FATHERDID ALL HIS WORK
BUT AGAINNOT ALL BY HIMSELF AND IN THE SAME TIME ALL BY HIMSELF AS THE
“THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN and THE HOLY GHOST ARE ALSO GOD.
THUS GOD IN “THE WORD” IN THIS MOST POWERFUL OUSTANDING UNFATHOMABLE EMBODIMENT, THOUGH A MERE INFINITESIMAL SPIRIT WHICH NO MICROSCOPE COULD BE INVENTED IN ORDER TO BE DETECTED,
ABIDED IN THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF CREATION NEVER MIND IN SATAN AND HIS SATANIC WORLD,
IN FULL LOVING CONTROL!
THUS Jesus as a spirit simply for the sake of JUSTICE and TRUTH that HE, “THE WORD” the Son of Man to be, THE FIRST EVER BEGINNING, AS THE PRIMORDIAL LIGHT, LIGHT FROM LIGHT, was the ACTUAL BEGINNING precisely in
LUCIFER’S HEART, ONE SUBSTANCE AT ALL COSTS, AND AT THE SAME TIME DISTINCT FOR THE SAKE OF
FREE WILL OF ALL, AS THE CASE, MAY BE.
HE SIMPLY SERVED HIS FATHER, LUCIFER, AND EVENTUALLY THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE,
GOD’S KINGDOM OF THE SON, THROUGH HIM. UNAWARE OF IT
LIGHT SHINES IN DARKNESS, AND DARKNESS COMPREHENDED NOT!
HE PREVENTED HIS LOVING FATHER NOT TO DESTROY LUCIFER IN THE FIRST PLACE, EVEN FROM THE LEAST INTENTION IN HIS HEART TO REBEL, AND AT THE SAME TIME EMPOWERED LUCIFER TO ACCOMPLISH HIS
DREAM AS GOD OF THE WORLD, Now ask your self
WAS SATAN THE GOD OF THE WORLD, SINCE
WITHIN HIM
THE CARRIER OF THE PRIMORDIAL LIGHT, GOD, AS HIS LIFE SOURCE AND ALL, HAD THE
WHOLE DEITY, ALL IN “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man ?
TRIUNE GOD IN HIM? AND
FROM THE BEGINNING IN LUCIFER ONWARDS WAS ACTUALLY EVERY BEGINNING OF GOD’S WORK , both
GOOD AND EVIL, since it is in full clarity and it says in John1:3
WITHOUT HIM WAS MADE NOTHING THAT WAS MADE. Thus since our
God Almighty could only be:
MOST LOVING, MOST GOOD, MOST HOLY, AND ETERNAL.
In order to maintain ALL NEVER MIND SIMPLY
Satan in existence doing his MOST HORRIBLE and MOST EVIL work AND AT THE SAME INSTANT GOD ALSO WOULD BE IN FULL CONTROL, EVEN IN ALL THE EVIL CAUSED BY SATAN.
WHO ELSE WOULD MAKE ALL THESE POSSIBLE FOR GOD IF NOT
“THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man.
Well depicted in
Isaiah45:7 I form the light, (HIDDEN IN “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man to be)
and create darkness, ( BY “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man to be)
I make peace, (BY “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man to be on the cross) and
create evil: ( by Satan, through “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man to be, and I in Him)
I the Lord that do all these things.
Ok isn’t clear enough LU, thatSatan, THE EVIL CREATED BY GOD was simply
Jesus Christ CAMOUFLAGED AS
THE GOD OF THIS WORLD.ALL IN HIM, ALL BY HIM and ALL FOR HIM
IN THE MEANTIME READ THESE SCRIPTURES PLEASE:
THE ABOVE LU IS MORE THAN A CLEAR ANSWER! NOW IF THE ABOVE IS NOT SUFFICIENT HERE IS ANOTHER:
Colossians:1Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers. All things were created by him and in him. 17And he is before all: and by him
all things consist.19Because in him, it hath well pleased the Father that all fulness should dwell:
Psalm 104:2929When you hide your face, they are dismayed;
when you take away their breath, they die and return to their dust.
30When you send forth your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.
John1:3 WITHOUT HIM WAS MADE NOTHING THAT WAS MADE.
Now in relation to the above scriptures
“THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man
as a SPIRIT is the life and
CAMOUFLAGED IN SATAN!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Lu,
Hereunder Paul was referring to the gentiles, THE CARRIERS OF SATAN,
Ephesians 4 17 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just
as the Gentiles also walk, (SATAN’S ABODES)
in the futility of their mind,( BY SATAN IN THEM)
18being darkened in their understanding,( BY SATAN IN THEM)
excluded from the life of God
because of the ignorance that is in them, (SATAN’S SPIRIT)
because of the hardness of their heart; (SATAN’S ABODE)
19and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness.
Now read hereunder it is repeated by Peter:
1Peter 2:10But you are a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people: that you may declare his virtues,
who hath called
you out of darkness (SATAN’S EMBODIMENTS)
into his marvelous light: (JESUS EMBODIMENTS)
10Who in times past were not
A PEOPLE: ( BUT DEVILS IN FLESH)
but are now the people of God. Who had not obtained
MERCY but now have obtained
MERCY
Peace and love in Jesus Chrsit
Hi Jodi,
YOU: YHVH brings forth RA
ME: GOD IS LOVE: HE ALLOW SATAN TO PERFORM ALL KINDS OF
RA TO HUMANITY, AT EVERY LEVEL!
HE IS THE AUTHOR OF ALL
BAD, EVIL WICKEDNESS AND ALL THE REST
READ JOB!
YOU: as punishment and for instruction unto man, it is done through YHVH’s righteous purpose.
ALL WORK ON EARTH OFFICIALLY BY/IN
JESUS CHRIST IS DONE BY GOD
FOR HIS OWN PLEASURE
EVEN SATAN’S WORK!
SIMPLY AS GOD TRANSFORMS ALL SATAN’S WORK INTO HIS GOODNESS!
FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE IT SEEMS SATAN IS WINNING
BUT LIGHT SHINES IN DARKNESS, AND
DARKNESS COMPREHENDED NOT
JESUS WON THE WORLD AND ITS ENTIRE PROCESS HE SIMPLY BROUGHT IT INTO
FUTILE
John16:33 These things I have spoken to you, that in me you may have peace.
In the world you shall have distress.
But have confidence. I have overcome the world.
DURING THE FORTY DAYS HE REMAINED ON EARTH AND TILL PENTECOST
JESUS CHRIST RULED EARTH
AS KING AND GOVERNED EARTH AS HE SEEMED FIT! WHILE THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE LIVED IN THEIR NORMAL EVIL WAYS
SIMPLY PURIFIED
the world was THE NEW PARADISE!
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee:
This day thou shalt be with me in paradise.
BY JESUS’ OWN DIVINE BLOOD, PROVIDED BY GOD THE FATHER!
Luke 23: 34 And Jesus said: Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do….
GOD’S KINGDOM CAME, GOD’S WILL WAS ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN!
JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, AS A SPIRIT DURING THE ABOVE MENTIONED DAYS, ABIDED IN ALL SOULS AND:
CHILDREN WERE BORN OF GOD IN EVERY BIRTH OCCURRED ON EARTH, AND
IMPLANTED HIS FIRST FRUITS IN EVERY CONCEPTION OCCURRED ON EARTH.
John1:12 But as many as received him, (ACCEPTED HIM AFTER PENTECOST, AND WERE BAPTIZED IN JESUS’ NAME)
he gave them power to be made the sons of God,
to them that believe in his name. ( AND WERE BAPTIZED IN HIS NAME)
13Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man,
but of God.
IN OUR LORD GOD AND FATHER JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 13:Who made answer and said to them:
He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man.
38And the field is the world. And the good seed are the children of the kingdom. And the cockle are the children of the wicked one.
39And the enemy that sowed them, is the devil.
But the harvest is the end of the world. And the reapers are the angels. 40Even as cockle therefore is gathered up, and burnt with fire: so shall it be at the end of the world.
41The Son of man
shall send his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all scandals, and them that work iniquity.
Peace and Love in Jesus Christ
However, in all the references you gave or alluded to, the I am statements are in the context of the the person identifying themselves as someone or something. E.g. Gabriel is saying I am Gabriel, the blind man is saying I am the man that was born blind, Peter is saying I am the man you seek. The many times Jesus says “I am” relates to a truth about himself as you quote e.g. I am the bread from heaven or I am the good shepherd etc.
When you understand that ‘ego eimi’ means ‘I exist’, then it all makes sense. Think about the word ‘ego’, what does that have to do with God? It is simply referring to self and God is the ever existing one. Of course we exist too. One of Jesus disciples existed as Peter. One of the angels mentioned in scripture exists as Gabriel. Likewise, before Abraham Jesus existed. That is it. Saying that he was claiming to be God is not only a stretch, but is done because people start with a Trinitarian view of God and then everything is seen through that lens.
So let’s take your view and apply it using your rule to John 18:5-6
“Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.)
When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.You would have to say that Jesus was not claiming to be God here because in your own words you would say:
” the I am statements are in the context of the the person identifying themselves as someone or something”.
But I’m betting you read this as Jesus saying he is God despite your own rule. Would I be correct in that assumption?
My view is as stated earlier, this verse is too saying that he exists as Jesus and they fell backwards because they were in the presence of the Christ and son of God. If that is not enough reason to fall to the ground, then no one would fall to the ground ever. And in the disputed verse we are discussing Jesus was simply stating that he existed before Abraham.
He never said his name was “I am”. The context was not identifying him, it was that he existed before Abraham. I am not arguing against divine nature at all, just that it is a stretch too far to use this verse to say that Jesus was claiming to be the “I am” of the Old Testament.
Thank you to Pilgrim, t8, and Carmel for discussing 2 Cor 4:4 with me. I’ve wrestled with the passage and I stand on my initial belief. This thesis written by a man for his doctorate provides this conclusion (one would be hard pressed to find the subject more thoroughly examined):
In conclusion, then, I submit that the most likely meaning that may be assigned to Paul’s expression o& qeoV” tou~ ai*w~no” is that by it he was referring to the God of Paul’s Judeo- Christian heritage, and not to the devil. This conclusion is to be preferred because it is exegetically sound, traditionally attested, theologically uncomplicated, and missiologically significant.
If my conclusions are correct in respect to the different areas covered by my thesis, then it is almost certain that from the period of Erasmus and Calvin onwards that 2 Cor 4:4 has been consistently misinterpreted. This, in turn, means that those who wish to preserve the Satan- interpretation of Erasmus and Calvin will need to re-examine the evidence for their positions in order to refute my findings in a convincing way. Future translations of 2 Cor 4:4 will also need to reflect this conclusion about “the God of this age”.
Blessings, LU
Hi T8,
Re: I AM
Everyone using the term “I am” is declaring who they are or what they did or where they come from including Jesus. But men can be deceived when speaking this way. While the Jews claimed to be of Abraham’s seed, which was true, nevertheless their Father was the Devil because of the Spirit they were moving in (John 8:33-37).
But I was sure that you understood T8 that when Jesus spoke He always spoke the Truth, He being the Truth. He was not a liar like the Jews. Jesus spoke the Truth about who He was and from where He came. When He said I and the Father are one, this is the Truth. Whether it was to the blind man of John 9 or when questioned at his trial He spoke the Truth of who He really was. Had He not done so He would have been a liar.
Jesus was that special person that was prophesied to be born in Bethlehem and raised in Nazareth, the Son Of David, the Man to sit on the throne of David. But He was more than that. When He spoke of himself as the Son Of Man, He spoke the Truth, as being truly Man, flesh and blood, the Second Man, the one promised in the OT prophecies. When He is spoken as Son Of God, and called God Father, when said He came from Heaven, He was declaring the Truth, that God sent “His OWN son” from above “in the likeness of sinful flesh” (Rom 8:3).
All these glorious statements by Jesus are about who He really is:
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst” (John 6:35).
Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life” (John 8:12).
“I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture” (John 10:9).
“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep” (John 10:11).
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live” (John 11:25).
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me” (John 14:6).
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser” (John 15:1).These statements tell us what He is and was to humanity I.e. bread of eternal life, light of the World, the resurrection and the Life, the Shepherd of His and the Father’s sheep etc. Taking for example John 10:11, the “good shepherd” He was not only contrasting himself to all the false and failed shepherds who came before (and after Him) but was identifying himself as Jehovah the Shepherd (see Ps 23:1; Ps 80:1; Jer 31:10) and as Jehovah’s promised true Shepherd to come (Ez 34:12; Isaiah 40:11; Zech 13:7). In His statement about being the true vine, Jesus was declaring himself to be the True fruitful Vine (the true Israel of God which brings forth judgement and righteousness), in contrast to that “vineyard of the LORD of hosts” which was “the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant” from whom “he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry” (Isaiah 5:1-7).
So I believe I am correctly and consistently understanding what Jesus meant when He said I AM and that this is demonstrated in the references you gave including John 8:58 and John 13:19 and indeed in John 18:5-6 that you quoted this last post. In regard to that text, John 18:5-6, Jesus truly identified himself as the one whom they sought, being the one that was prophesied Jesus of Nazareth (Matthew 2:23). But more importantly this incident is clearly recorded in scripture to demonstrate the truth of John 10:17-18 – “Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father” (John 10:17-18). Men could only put Him to death because He gave them permission. He was “delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God” although “taken, and by wicked hands” was “crucified and slain:” (Acts 2:23).
One other point. Jesus consistently spoke of God as His Father. The Jews considered this blasphemy (John 10:34-36) because saying “God was his Father” to them He was “making himself equal with God” ( John 5:18). Of course they also hated Him for other reasons (as you rightly pointed out) as it says in John 5:18 “he had broken the sabbath”.
Blessings dear T8.
Hi LightenUp,
I have started reading the thesis you sent by a link. It being 384 pages long I won’t be replying anytime soon. In any event I don’t see the value in continuing dialogue on this particular subject as you obviously have a set your mind the interpretation of the text.
Pilgrim. ….if you truly believe what Jesus said, then you would believe this also, “the son of man can do “nothing” of himself. , does that sound like a God to you?, also if you “truly believe Jesus” , then you would believe this also, “that they might know “YOU” the “ONLY” true GOD”, and Jesus who you have sent”.
Let’s be honest here Pilgrim, you and others here choose to “believe”, what you want to believe, and disregard any scripture that opposes your own personal views. Now again I ask you do you “truly believe what Jesus said”?
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
LU, Carmel, Pilgram, when Jesus said “I am” , He was not saying he was the Almighty God at all. The word I am means the same today as it did then. No “mystery” about it.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi Lu,
YOU: Carmel,
Read this to answer what are idols:
Lu, thanks for the kind of INFORMATION regarding COMMON IDOLS.
Now despite that information, John was never intended to inform his listeners about what was in those days as
false gods ONLY, but rather
THE IDOLS WHICH FROM JESUS’ REDEMPTION, WERE IN ACTUAL FACT NOT YET KNOWN BY HUMANS AT LARGE!
EVEN TODAY
John said: keep yourselves from idols.
not specifically idolatry of false images and so on
This is well pinpointed out in
Ephesians 6 Put you on the armour of God, that you may be able to stand against
the deceits of the devil. (CAMOUFLAGED IN ALL THINGS OF THE WORLD, the false god of this world,
BY WHICH HUMAN HEART WOULD REJECT GOD, IN CHRIST, AND INSTEAD LIVE IN THE FALSE GOD OF THIS WORLD)
12For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; ( WON BY JESUS! THUS ELIMINATED SATAN FROM THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF THE WORLD, THE FACT THAT FROM JESUS REDEMPTION THE IDOLS IN FALSE GOD’S IN THE WAY YOU POSTED, ARE PRACTICALLY ERADICATED. )
but against principalities and powers,
against the rulers of the world of this darkness,
against the spirits of wickedness in the high places.
The above is a clear reference that Satan and his demons are no longer, AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE PROCESS OF THE WORLD.
THE FACT THAT IDOLATRY, BEFORE REDEMPTION, WAS A DIRECT OFFENSE TO THE TRUE GOD! AFTER REDEMPTION FROM THE OTHERHAND SATAN AND HIS DEMONS BECAME SIMPLY SPIRITS RUNNING ABOUT IN THE AIR SEARCHING TO MANIPULATE HUMANS IN ALL SORTS SIMPLY TO CHOOSE THE MATERIAL WORLD, AND THE FLESH IN GENERAL WITH GREED, AND LUSTS.
THE NEW IDOLS,
THE NEW FALSE GOD OF THIS WORLD
BY WHICH THEY ABANDON JESUS’GOSPEL. Well mentioned in
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober and watch: because of your adversary the devil,
as a roaring lion, goeth about seeking whom he may devour.
also in
Ephesians 2:1 And you, when you were dead in your offences and sins,
2Wherein in time past you walked according to the course of this world, according
to the prince of
the power of this air,
of the spirit that now worketh on the children of unbelief:
3In which also we all conversed in time past,
in the desires of our flesh,
fulfilling the will of the flesh and of our thoughts,
and were by nature children of wrath, (SATAN)
even as the rest: ( THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE)
ALSO IN
Romans 1:24 Wherefore, God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness: to dishonour their own bodies among themselves. 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26For this cause, God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. 27And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts, one towards another: men with men, working that which is filthy and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.
28And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient. 29Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness: full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity: whisperers, 30Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31Foolish, dissolute: without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. 32Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death: and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.
SATAN Lu, is the god of
THIS WORLD! Jesus was more than clear in
Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself,( PHYSICALLY IN AL THE IDOLS OF THIS WORLD) and take up his cross, and follow me.(SPIRITUALLY ON EARTH) 25For he that will save his (PHYSICAL) life, shall lose it( IN HIS SOUL): and he that shall lose his ( PHYSICAL) life for my sake, shall find it.(IN HIS SOUL) 26For what doth it profit a man,
if he gain the whole world and suffer the loss of his own soul?
Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Pilgrim,
You said:
I have started reading the thesis you sent by a link. It being 384 pages long I won’t be replying anytime soon. In any event I don’t see the value in continuing dialogue on this particular subject as you obviously have a set your mind the interpretation of the text.
Haha, yes it is a long thesis, and as I said…very thorough. I am grateful that you are reading it. I do believe it will be worth your while. Let me know what you think when you have considered it.
It was particularly interesting to me that “the God of this world” is a phrase used in the book of Enoch as the Almighty God. See here:
That excerpt is from page 242 in that thesis found here:
Hi Carmel,
You would do well to read this thesis on the subject of 2 Cor 4:4. I do think you would not consider satan as the god of this world any longer. No need to keep that discussion going with me until you have read that thesis. I am convinced that satan is NOT the god of this world in Paul’s writing.
In conclusion, then, I submit that the most likely meaning that may be assigned to Paul’s expression o& qeoV” tou~ ai*w~no” is that by it he was referring to the God of Paul’s Judeo- Christian heritage, and not to the devil. This conclusion is to be preferred because it is exegetically sound, traditionally attested, theologically uncomplicated, and missiologically significant.
So LU. You can say with confidence that your God is the God of this age.
I’m not going to dispute that this is your God, but will leave it with you to think about.
But I was sure that you understood T8 that when Jesus spoke He always spoke the Truth, He being the Truth. He was not a liar like the Jews. Jesus spoke the Truth about who He was and from where He came. When He said I and the Father are one, this is the Truth. Whether it was to the blind man of John 9 or when questioned at his trial He spoke the Truth of who He really was. Had He not done so He would have been a liar.
Of course he spoke the truth. He is the truth. He taught that we can be one and that we can be one with both him and God. This oneness is extended to the children of God, yet few would say that the children of God are God. No, it just means one in unity with God and of course we know that we will share in this divine nature and will still not be God. Oneness doesn’t make you the person you are one with. A husband and wife are one, but the wife is not the husband. And on the topic of Jesus always speaking the truth, can I ask you if you truly believe these words of Jesus. It seems you are arguing against them, but if Jesus always spoke the truth, then you need to believe these words too.
John 17:3:
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Think about what Jesus us communicating here.
And about this oneness you mention:
“I and the Father are one”.
Does this mean they are the same being or God? Let’s take Jesus own words and ask yourself if you believe this is the correct interpretation:
John 17:20-22:
I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one.So I believe I am correctly and consistently understanding what Jesus meant when He said I AM and that this is demonstrated in the references you gave including John 8:58
I agree that Jesus is the bread of life, light of the world, and all the other things you quoted from scripture. But that doesn’t make him, the “I Am” of scripture because he said ‘ego eimi’ like everyone else. Why would it? I believe this sort of thing happens when one starts with a conclusion and then everything gets forced into that conclusion. I think it is a better way to let every scripture speak for itself and see where that leads.
Your basically saying that yes we all say “I am” but when Jesus says it, he is saying he is God. It doesn’t make sense. Even if he were God it still wouldn’t make sense.
Pilgrim, who is Jesus to you (in one paragraph)?
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