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Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 13 2010,23:00) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was (of) God.
But the word [of] is not in the greek text in over 5000 manuscripts. You are adding to the scritptures my friend.Dangerous to say the least.
WJ
WJ……….Are you word with you and are the of you, that answer is obviously yes unless you are quoting someone else's words as Jesus was doing. He plainly said the words he was speaking was (NOT) His words.
peace and love……………………..gene
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 13 2010,23:27) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2010,01:43) Yea I have heard you say this before as if the Father is the Father of all. Is he the Father of satan or satans children? (Ye are of your father the devil)
Come on now WJ. What sort of argument is that. We both know that God is the God of all good and no evil is in him. Sure, these spirits may once have come from him, but they chose iniquity over God and hence they left their former habitations. There is no need to throw up this as a smoke screen. It is irrelevant.When it comes to evil as you say, Satan is a father and a god.
So why can't you accept this as being true with God. That he is the Father of spirits. And that includes the Father of Jesus Christ.
i.e., the Father is the God off our Lord Jesus Christ.
t8The point is God is a Spirit and there is only “One Spirit”.
How many have you recieved?
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, “how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 2 Cor 13:5
The scripture doesn't say that the Father is the Father of “All Spirits” as you imply.
WJ
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 14 2010,10:33) WJ……….Are you word with you and are the of you, that answer is obviously yes unless you are quoting someone else's words as Jesus was doing. He plainly said the words he was speaking was (NOT) His words. peace and love……………………..gene
GeneTo you it is obvious. But to me the Text says “the Word was God”.
WJ
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 13 2010,23:22) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2010,01:43) t8 Nice try but the Bible doesn't say we have recieved more than “One Spirit” does it?
And as far as us being “One in Spirit” is not the same as being “One Spirit” is it?
WJ, yes it was a nice try and there is another one.If we are one in spirit with Jesus and with each other, then it means that we are one in God. Why?
Because the Father is the father of spirits.
“Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live!”
So if we are in Christ, then we have unity with God and hence are one with God.
Simple.
No need to get all confused and say that all who have a spirit or all that we can be one with in Spirit is God. No need for this type of thinking at all when your mind is free.
t8Is the Spirt of Christ and the Spirit of Jesus and God's Spirit the same Spirit?
Simple yes or no answer.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,02:37) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 14 2010,10:33) WJ……….Are you word with you and are the of you, that answer is obviously yes unless you are quoting someone else's words as Jesus was doing. He plainly said the words he was speaking was (NOT) His words. peace and love……………………..gene
GeneTo you it is obvious. But to me the Text says “the Word was God”.
WJ
WJ……..Right just like your words are YOU. No difference. Can you at least understand that brother. Your word express your intellects and GOD'S words express (HIS) Intellects. In the beginning GOD (SAID) He Spoke WORDS the Words He spoke were (HIS WORDS) not someone else's WORDS. God and His word are one and the same thing, just as you and your word are one and the same thing. They are the expression of your Being, and GOD'S words are the expression of His being. No difference WJpeace and love……………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 14 2010,11:12) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,02:37) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 14 2010,10:33) WJ……….Are you word with you and are the of you, that answer is obviously yes unless you are quoting someone else's words as Jesus was doing. He plainly said the words he was speaking was (NOT) His words. peace and love……………………..gene
GeneTo you it is obvious. But to me the Text says “the Word was God”.
WJ
WJ……..Right just like your words are YOU. No difference. Can you at least understand that brother. Your word express your intellects and GOD'S words express (HIS) Intellects. In the beginning GOD (SAID) He Spoke WORDS the Words He spoke were (HIS WORDS) not someone else's WORDS. God and His word are one and the same thing, just as you and your word are one and the same thing. They are the expression of your Being, and GOD'S words are the expression of His being. No difference WJpeace and love……………………..gene
GeneMy words could be your words so would that mean I am you?
My words do not think, speak, hear, taste, feel, in other words my word is not a sentient being Gene.
Foolishness.
Satan spoke words of God, were those word “Satan”?
WJ
Gene,
I wrote about tin another thread which included the 'spirit/intelligence' in plants and animal… so yes.
WJ is right on this one.
There is only one true real spirit and that is the spirit of God.
——–
There are 7 distinct aspects of God's spirit.
The Spirit of Christ
and The Holy Ghost are two aspects…
but all in all, They are The Spirits of God.
——–
Jesus is in fact, God in flesh…
but this does not support a trinity.
Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 14 2010,23:46) This forum is littered with this “begotten” (Who started this?) theme. If all you are saying is that Jesus had a beginning when God created him and you call this being “Begotten” then let it be.
Good JA,Let's let it be because scripture says it. And what else does scripture say about it? That Jesus is the ONLY begotten Son of God. No one else is ever said to be begotten by God. Peter mentions that we will be “begotten again”, but it is a different word which emphasizes the “again”. And that lines up with Jesus telling Nicodemus we must be born again by spirit.
Jesus wasn't said to be begotten “again”, but originally begotten of God. And the ONLY one at that.
Oh yeah, and don't forget that Satan is one of the everything that came into existence through God's only begotten Son. How does that fact fit into your theory?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 14 2010,14:39) Oh yeah, and don't forget that Satan is one of the everything that came into existence through God's only begotten Son. How does that fact fit into your theory? And so was days, so how does that fit into your theology?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,02:28) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 13 2010,23:00) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was (of) God.
But the word [of] is not in the greek text in over 5000 manuscripts. You are adding to the scritptures my friend.Dangerous to say the least.
WJ
TO ALL:The Word “God” is used two times in John 1:1 and it appears in the nominative case both times.
Nominative: God
Genetive: of God
It says, “And the Word was God” (nominative). Davidbfun is changing the scriptures just as WJ said.
the Roo
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2010,14:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 14 2010,14:39) Oh yeah, and don't forget that Satan is one of the everything that came into existence through God's only begotten Son. How does that fact fit into your theory? And so was days, so how does that fit into your theology?
WJ
Keith,
Did the day come before the light or did the light come before the day? The light was there first, the light and darkness separated, then evening and morning declared and declared to be one day. Light came first.Keith,
In another thread, you said that you totally agree with the Athanasian Creed that states this:Quote Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Essence of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Essence of his Mother, born in the world. you said:
Quote I believe everything in the creed to be scriptual. from here: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….1;st=10
I'm wondering what scripture/scriptures you use to support the part that I have bolded.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,06:58) And so was days, so how does that fit into your theology? WJ
Hi WJ,Can YOU tell me which “this day” it was? Like maybe the actual date? Of course not. So could it just be a matter of God wording it in a way we would understand without getting all metaphysical about it and talking about “inside time” or “outside of space” and what not? Yes, of course.
Could it be that Jesus was caused to exist at the crack of that very first day that they then both created? Maybe……why not?
And yes, this is conjecture, but what about your theory? Does scripture ever actually say Jesus was appointed to a position of begotten Son of God? Of course not. In fact there is nothing at all in scripture to imply that begotten referring to Jesus doesn't mean “caused to exist” or “fathered” – just like all the other times begotten is mentioned.
In fact, the only reason anyone would have to purposely blind themselves to what the scriptures say like this is because they have an ulterior motive. You just don't WANT Jesus to have been begotten literally, so you are willing to grasp at any little thing to avoid that fact.
Sorry WJ, this doesn't have so much to do with the unimportant word “today” as it does with the fact that scriptures don't even come close to implying some mystical “begetting” of Jesus. They say Jesus was begotten by his God, that he is the ONLY one who came to exist this way, and that afterwards, God made everything through and for His Son. Do you see that last word WJ? SON! How does a son normally come to be? Isn't he “fathered” by his father? Yet you would have the good thinking people on HN believe that “Father and Son” were just the names our plural God chose to distinguish between one equal partner and the other in the Godhead. Really? Can you just imagine equal God Jesus saying, “Okay Mr. 1/3 of God, You can be the “Father” this time, but next time, I want to be the General to your Major, kay?”
mike
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 15 2010,07:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,02:28) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 13 2010,23:00) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was (of) God.
But the word [of] is not in the greek text in over 5000 manuscripts. You are adding to the scritptures my friend.Dangerous to say the least.
WJ
TO ALL:The Word “God” is used two times in John 1:1 and it appears in the nominative case both times.
Nominative: God
Genetive: of God
It says, “And the Word was God” (nominative). Davidbfun is changing the scriptures just as WJ said.
the Roo
Hi Jack,It is the trinitarians who have been biasing that scripture for hundreds of years with their two capital “G” translation that doesn't represent what John was saying in 1:1, nor does it fit in with anything else John wrote.
1:1 actually says one was “THE god”, the other was simply “god”.
mike
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 15 2010,15:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,02:28) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 13 2010,23:00) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was (of) God.
But the word [of] is not in the greek text in over 5000 manuscripts. You are adding to the scritptures my friend.Dangerous to say the least.
WJ
TO ALL:The Word “God” is used two times in John 1:1 and it appears in the nominative case both times.
Nominative: God
Genetive: of God
It says, “And the Word was God” (nominative). Davidbfun is changing the scriptures just as WJ said.
the Roo
Hello Roo,From the posts I've read here the Greek doesn't have an “of”. Is this correct or not?
Also when I look at the translations it only has Theos so it us up to the translators to insert “of” or not.
So, what am I changing? Nothing! What did the translators do? Omit the word “of”.
Genitive case = possessive case
In the “case of the missing “of”', “of” is not to be used as a possessive but coming FROM, out of. Not a possession of God. So obviously you wouldn't be looking for the word “of” as a genitive case, because the sentence is not talking about a possession. So when would there ever be a genitive case in this sentence?
Nominative case = Generally, it is a noun that is doing something (What action is occurring in this verse?) Word = Subject; God = Object (the nominative in this sentence is “Word” (noun, subject(nominative)) that was being (verb) with God (object))
So, please try another explanation of why the translators omitted the word “of”.
But let us look at what is absurd if you do not insert the “of”, or maybe normal??? son = father. “Normal” for a Trinitarian “Absurd” for the rest of the world.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the SON, and the SON was WITH the FATHER and the SON was (of) the FATHER.
Without the “of” you are saying the son = father
Do you really believe this? If so, why the trouble to say that there are two people? A is WITH B. IF A was B then the sentence should read, “In the beginning was God.” Or do you have a psychotic (“schizo, split-personality”) God?
So let's look at the next verse (if you were confused in verse 1):
John 1:2 He was in the beginning WITH God.
Again, TWO persons, oops! WITH. He (son) does not equal God.
HOW do you get this verse to say “He” = God? He = WITH God.
Col 1:13 God rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of the “son of His love”, (begotten)
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Col 1:15 He (the son of God's love) is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN of all creation.
Col 1:16 For IN Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created “through” Him and for Him. (Jn 1:3)
1Jo 4:9 By this the “love of God” (Jesus) was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten son into the world so that we might live through him.
Change what you must to deny what is written, but God had a son that was NOT created by His word or hands but begotten thru the act of God….and was the “son of His love”.
Why the push to say that God didn't beget a son? And say the son = father? Are the people trying to become Muslims?
Now I can see why they say the Bible is corrupted. Anytime that you can omit one word you change the entire meaning and make the son to be his own father…and get the people to buy into this lie AND then PROVE thru Greek that the translators are correct, there is a gigantic problem that the deceived can't see. Not only this but the blind lead the blind into pits and they can't get out.
All of this thread reminds me how children don't like to think that their parents have/had SEX. It is unmentionable! But how does a kid come about? Born or begotten?
Why do the first 3 Commandments of God in Gen 1:28 revolve around SEX? 1- Be fruitful 2- Multiply 3- Fill the earth
Christians are adamant that God DID NOT have SEX to produce His only begotten son. God forbid!!! Somehow or someway God came together to produce their offspring. I can't say how as I wasn't there IN THE BEGINNING.
We were created in the image and likeness of God. To everybody here that has only to do spiritually. How is it that we ended up with a physical body and spiritual body? Why is it that we need both a male and female to reproduce?
This thread along with others “refuse” to acknowledge the female essence of God. By doing so you refuse to accept a truth that God explained about Himself.
Would you believe me if I told you that I NEVER had a mother and that my father begat me? Again, if we are created in God's image and likeness, don't we do things in similar fashion as God? Wouldn't God's son have a mother and a father?
Oh, I hear it now, “Nothing is impossible with God” or “God's ways are not our ways.” God doesn't have to be logical. We can't understand God. God is a mystery.
ELOHY = goddess (noun, feminine) m = masculine plural ending together:
Elohiym or Elohim = God, Supreme Being (noun, masc and feminine, singular)
YHWH = masculine essence
who is your?? = feminine essence
(Holy) Spirit = Bible'sWho gave birth to the “son of God”?
Again, since God's image is male and female essences, who is your female essence?
The Professor
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2010,18:36) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2010,14:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 14 2010,14:39) Oh yeah, and don't forget that Satan is one of the everything that came into existence through God's only begotten Son. How does that fact fit into your theory? And so was days, so how does that fit into your theology?
WJ
Keith,
Did the day come before the light or did the light come before the day? The light was there first, the light and darkness separated, then evening and morning declared and declared to be one day. Light came first.
Hi Kathi,Gen 1:2 The earth was formless and void, and “darkness” was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
Gen 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
Gen 1:5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
Which came first, darkness (v2) or light (v3)?
What is the order of a “day”? Evening and morning.
The Professor
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 15 2010,10:28) Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 14 2010,23:46) A Spirit (read: “God” here) and only God can CREATE another Spirit because ALL Spirit is IN and FROM him. It is the 'intelligence' in Creation.
JA………..Howl la lou ya brother………..Findley someone who understands what Spirit really IS> Intellect, and is in everything that has life in it. It is what Life (IS).It is the (FORCE) of LIFE operating in all LIFE. And it is Intellect at work in all creation of GOD. So the hidden thing of GOD can be seen by the things created. Because everything in existence has a force of Intellect operating (IN) it so GOD is in IT. God lives vicariously (IN) and through his creation. That is how he know even when a sparrow dies and falls to the ground. IMO
peace and love………………..gene
Hello Gene,You are partially right concerning the Holy Spirit being intellect.
If you look at the 7 spirits within the Holy Spirit you'll see:
Spirit of YHWH
Fear of YHWH
Power
Wisdom
Knowledge
Understanding
CounselIntellect is only a portion of what comprises the Holy Spirit and doesn't encompass the totality of Her. You need to expand your theology to include everything that the Bible says of Her….otherwise you limit yourself and your perspective.
The Professor
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2010,10:39) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 13 2010,23:22) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2010,01:43) t8 Nice try but the Bible doesn't say we have recieved more than “One Spirit” does it?
And as far as us being “One in Spirit” is not the same as being “One Spirit” is it?
WJ, yes it was a nice try and there is another one.If we are one in spirit with Jesus and with each other, then it means that we are one in God. Why?
Because the Father is the father of spirits.
“Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live!”
So if we are in Christ, then we have unity with God and hence are one with God.
Simple.
No need to get all confused and say that all who have a spirit or all that we can be one with in Spirit is God. No need for this type of thinking at all when your mind is free.
t8Is the Spirt of Christ and the Spirit of Jesus and God's Spirit the same Spirit?
Simple yes or no answer.
WJ
WJ,A simple yes or no:
Is WJ's spirit and the spirit of Christ and the spirit of God the same thing?
The Professor
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