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Hi BD,
Conjecture all you wish but the will of God has been revealed on this matter.
Why kick against the goad?
Hi BD,
Satan knew that God could rescue Jesus as the episode on the top of the temple shows.
But you are still in the dark about the will of God?
Hi BD,
Reliance on human wisdom for interpreting scripture is very primitive.
Adding humanistic expectations also does not help.
Compare verses and God can teach you.
A million hopeful guesses by you does not match one revealed fact from scripture.
Salting your ideas with the imaginations of deceived men takes you further away
If you have a relationship with Jesus as the son of GOD, you can talk to him about anything including human pain and suffering, and there is enough of that going on. Because Jesus was a man and was like us and he knows suffering because he was tortured, crucified and died.
‘he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities’ Isaiah 53
Hi Miia
If you have a relationship with Jesus as the son of GOD, you can talk to him about anything including human pain and suffering, and there is enough of that going on. Because Jesus was a man and was like us and he knows suffering because he was tortured, crucified and died.
‘he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities’ Isaiah 53
I agree you can also ask God to save you, did you notice Isaiah does not say “killed” for our iniquities it just says bruised. Why do you see that verse as “killed”? Just ask yourself why you are reading death into bruised….If I said miaa the other day I bruised my arm would you see an image of me dead or just injured?
EDJ your Bible says that indeed but it also says the opposite
Hi BD,
“without the shedding of blood is no remission [of sins]” (Heb 9:22)
B’shem
YHVHMark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Where is the bloodshed?
Acts 3:19 “Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, so that there may come times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord,
Matthew 9:13 But you go and learn what this means:’I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ for I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. ”
where is this blood?
did you know that you can you incense or even a handful of flour for atonement, bet you didn’t know that…God makes life really easy but some just don’t know
A good question is why God needs blood,flesh,flour,incense,or money? Is not honest trust and repentance enough? I can’t escape the fact that some verses do seem to relate this,but the religious business needs more than that.
hi BD,
The blood has been shed.
We can be baptised into the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ[rom6]
But you would rewrite history and advise God on a better way?
Hi @AndrewAD
A good question is why God needs blood,flesh,flour,incense,or money? Is not honest trust and repentance enough? I can’t escape the fact that some verses do seem to relate this,but the religious business needs more than that.
New Living Translation
Isaiah 1:11 “What makes you think I want all your sacrifices?” says the LORD. “I am sick of your burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fattened cattle. I get no pleasure from the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.Jeremiah 7
…21Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, “Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices and eat flesh. 22″For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices. 23″But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you will be My people; and you will walk in all the way which I command you, that it may be well with you.’…
Psalms 50
The Mighty One Calls
…12″If I were hungry I would not tell you, For the world is Mine, and all it contains. 13″Shall I eat the flesh of bulls Or drink the blood of male goats? 14“Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving And pay your vows to the Most High;No need for blood, flour, incense or anything else but thanksgiving and gratefulness, but most don’t know….these people are so set on their own salvation they would gladly nail Jesus up to the cross if that was the requirement for their salvation.
I ask all of you here, what would you do if it was the day of Jesus and you knew that the only way you would have salvation was to Crucify Jesus would you be for it or against it?
Bodhitharta,
I do not know where it is written in Scripture that all atonement requires blood but Jesus is called the atoning sacrifice. Technically he did not shed a lot of blood and the words “shed blood” is often used as an idiom for “murder” or “kill”
This is most likely the passage you are referring to:
Hebrews 9:22Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Most of passage do not really apply as atonement and forgiveness are two different but related elements. Leviticus 5:11 may apply as it is speaking of a sin offering but I am not sure. If I remember correctly the formula is a soul for a soul.
Leviticus 17:11 tells us that blood is required for atonement.
I did not find where blood is linked to forgiveness so it must be an implied teaching.
I suppose if I was convinced at the time I would say okay Jesus “thy will be done” but if i didn’t know I would be like St.Peter and say “be it far from thee”.
Bodhithata,
The point is irrelevant as this world sin had to be condemned at the same time a way to escape it had to be established in order for the remnant to escape its destruction. The death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus accomplished those things and so we have the new covenant.
Of course I know that Kerwin,but I was answering Bods question as to whether I would agree on Jesus being crucified.If that were Jesus will and I believed him I would say okay do what you will.
Hi kerwin
Bodhithata,
The point is irrelevant as this world sin had to be condemned at the same time a way to escape it had to be established in order for the remnant to escape its destruction. The death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus accomplished those things and so we have the new covenant.
There is no sense in the scripture about this world needing to be condemned at the time of Christ and furthermore The scripture does say shedding innocent blood only curses and condemns the world. So what I am saying is that if you think about it honestly, you are believing in the death, resurrection and ascension, not as it pertains to actual affect but more for emotional reasons that you are bound to, I have asked you what makes Islam false besides you just believing that if one is true the other must be untrue but that is illogical.
I agree you can also ask God to save you, did you notice Isaiah does not say “killed” for our iniquities it just says bruised. Why do you see that verse as “killed”? Just ask yourself why you are reading death into bruised….If I said miaa the other day I bruised my arm would you see an image of me dead or just injured?
Hi Bd,
I had a really bad dream the other night. I don’t believe it was from above (only good things come from above) but just having a night of really bad dreams which is unusual for me, this was seriously the worst dream I have ever had. But I was dying, and I didn’t want to die. I was being taken up and I saw the light, but I was missing the light and I was taken somewhere else really bad. I kept calling Jesus name but got no where. I woke up terrified and went back to sleep, and had another bad dream unrelated and do know it was just a strange night. Subconscious fears I believe. But point is it’s a wake up. Jesus is really important Bd, and he really did die. Don’t let anyone tell you different. He suffered, he died, he rose again.Blood atonement – I don’t understand that. It’s not in every denomination. Not in the Eastern churches for example
hi BD,
Your theories as to how God keeps getting it wrong in your humble opinion are decidedly arrogant.
I will pray for you.
Hi Miia
Hi Bd,
I had a really bad dream the other night. I don’t believe it was from above (only good things come from above) but just having a night of really bad dreams which is unusual for me, this was seriously the worst dream I have ever had. But I was dying, and I didn’t want to die. I was being taken up and I saw the light, but I was missing the light and I was taken somewhere else really bad. I kept calling Jesus name but got no where. I woke up terrified and went back to sleep, and had another bad dream unrelated and do know it was just a strange night. Subconscious fears I believe. But point is it’s a wake up. Jesus is really important Bd, and he really did die. Don’t let anyone tell you different. He suffered, he died, he rose again.Blood atonement – I don’t understand that. It’s not in every denomination. Not in the Eastern churches for example
I hope you have better sleep, what do you think it meant in your dream that Jesus didn’t help? the reason I ask is that you speak so much about dreams and visions and say that when a Muslim dreams of Jesus that is Jesus reaching out to them to be Christians….Was your dream just a dream or did it mean something?
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