Bloodless atonement

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  • #433188
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Genesis 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

    Genesis 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

    wakeup.

    #433220
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Isaiah 19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.

    Isaiah 19:2 And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom.

    wakeup.

    #433223
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Read leviticus Colter, and see how God gave the jews instructions how to sacrifice.
    That was just the shadow of the real true sacrifice,which was Jesus.
    A clean and perfect sacrifice well accepted by God.All the blood caused by this world must be paid by Holy blood, to be redeemed.
    We need to sacrifice daily as well. That is to resist doing the things we lust for,but not acceptable to God.
    The god of this world has infiltrated the true teachings of God;yes and he is doing a very good job.
    Your spirit must be in the same frequency as that of God to understand.You can never lock on to God’s frequency, if you do it on your own.
    Using your own wisdom. Do not forget that the world, and what comes out of it, is anti Jesus and His God.
    Because satan is anti Jesus and he also is the god of this world.You need the flesh of Christ for your spiritual food,
    or you will end up lost in this wilderness.

    wakeup.

    #433226
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Boditharta.

    Jesus bearing the cross to open the door to God through Him.
    I am that bread that came down from heaven.
    No one can come to the father but by Me.
    We can come to God through the word of God which is Jesus.
    He was the WORD made flesh. God’s Word is now in print,called the Holy bible.
    The spirit thereof we must eat,to come to know God.
    You need two books to proof your doctrine; the Holy bible and the qur’an.
    The qur’an alone can not proof anything of God.There is no such as love one another,and give the other cheek
    in the qur’an; but revenge.You can lie and cheat to serve your purpose. This is what the qur’an teaches.
    Satan has infiltrated Gods true teachings,for he is the god of this world.
    It is time to submit to Jesus,for in Him is life everlasting.You should defend the truth;not some church, or some teaching.
    The devil can be cast out only in the name of Jesus; not kreshna budha,nor mohamad.He alone has the power over them.
    Its time to be humble in spirit.Find the right frequency to connect with your true God.

    wakeup.

    #433228
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Pharaoh is one, and Joseph is another.
    God is one, and Jesus is God’s own Word.In the beginning was the Word.The Word of God.
    Which was made flesh and called Jesus.
    In the beginning was not mohamad,ok?
    Your hero is mohamad;my hero is the Word of God.
    And I seek the Word of God. You seek the word of mohamad,CLAIMING to be from God,but can not proof.
    I have many prophesies to proof.Time to be humble in spirit; and submit to the true God.Time is short.

    wakeup.

    #433261
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Boditharta.

    Jesus died to open the door to God; that was closed before the resurrection,because only laws can not change men’s heart.
    Love for God can not be achieved by obeying laws.Laws are broken every day.
    We must bear our own cross,meaning that we must suffer being in this world of satan.
    He will make us suffer for worshipping The true God. But God will give us a little help.
    Suffering for not doing what the world expect us to do.Restrain the lust of the flesh,for the love of God.
    Love God before your self. Dont go after stange flesh; meaning: Dont worship other gods, like money is the great god
    of this world. Anyone can be bought with money.They are willing to give their souls for money.
    Willing to be the slave of money.This is also worshipping idols.The idol in this case is money.
    Jesus was bought with thirty pieces of silver.

    wakeup.

    #433341
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Muslems worship allah; Not Jehovah the God of Abraham.
    Jehovah loved the tribes of israel; muslems hate the tribes of israel.
    Israel is God’s creation starting with Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
    Which Ephraim was God’s first born, which is Joseph’s son,born in egypt.
    God loved Ephraim before Manaseh.

    How can allah be the same jehovah?
    Israel is all over the pages of the bible.
    Muslems hate Gods beloved.Jehovah loved israel,His beloved creation.
    God said: I have chastised you, and I will save you.I will destroy the nations but I will save you.
    Allah is some other god created by the god of this world.

    wakeup.

    #433406
    Wakeup
    Participant

    In all things Jesus is pre-eminence.(col. 1:18).
    He is the first perfect human sacrifice to God.
    Isaac can not be the first.(col.1:18).
    Dont apply human wisdom to spiritual things.
    We are from below (earth): God is from above(heaven).
    Much blood have been shed by men; by blood must men be saved.
    The blood of a Holy man;the only beloved Son of God,which He also created all things.
    Israel was saved by the blood of sheep on their door posts.
    True believers will be saved by the blood of the only begotten Son of God.
    We must accept that spilled blood to be saved.Believe that he is the Messiah,
    the Son of God;and follow his commandments.Many believe;but dont do.
    The sacrifice of not following the desires of the flesh is to much to bear.

    wakeup.

    #447105
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Boditharta.

    True christians worship one God,not two nor three.
    They worship God and His Word made flesh.But was not flesh before His birth.
    Gos is a Spirit and His Word is spirit.
    You can not understand this, because you need the Holy Spirit to teach you.
    The qur’an teachings are in opposition to the scriptures.
    And you believe the scriptures are tampered with.
    If that is the case; why do you have to use the scriptures to proof your point?
    Why not just the qur’an?
    Jesus was spirit before He was made flesh.
    The Word of God is *God’s own Word*.
    You say you believe in God but rejected His Word.
    This can not be. You should worship God and His Word,and His will,
    or you worship nothing, but doctrines of men.

    wakeup.

    #450869
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Islam can not proof that allah is Jehovah.
    Can not proof mohamad is a prophet anointed by jehovah.
    Can not proof Gabriel was the true Gabriel.But the opposite.
    Gabriel belived in the meassiah the Prince.Rev 9:25.
    Islam does not.

    wakeup.

    #787283
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Jesus is the Word of God and so we agree on this Muhammad is not the Word of God so we agree on this as well

    The Quran agrees on both of these points, Muhammad was given the Quran through Gabriel who was also the angel that delivered the Word of God to Mary I’m sure you agree with that.

    Is Allah, “Jehovah”? ask yourself this: is Eli, “Jehovah”? or E’lo-i is that “Jehovah?

    And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, la′ma sabach-tha′ni?” that is, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
    And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, “E′lo-i, E′lo-i, la′ma sabach-tha′ni?” which means, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
    Have you considered the fact that Abraham, Isaac or Jacob never even heard of the name Jehovah and God was not known to them by that name?

    Exodus 6:321st Century King James Version (KJ21)

    And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob by the name of God Almighty, but by My name Jehovah was I not known to them.

    So yes, Allah would have to be Jehovah/Yahweh unless you don’t believe God who declares the is NO OTHER GOD besides HIM that means NO OTHER GOD and it agrees with the statement of Jesus that God Almighty is THE ONLY TRUE GOD so not even Jesus is God do you agree?

    As far as blood is concerned it is a condemnation to spill innocent blood Jesus agrees when he says:

    And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.
    And you said it is the blood that saves but it is not the blood it is the Faith:
    The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
    Jesus took refuge in God and the Quran agrees with Psalm 34:22 and The life of Jesus was spared/redeemed
    This also agrees with the rules of Sacrifice which clearly state that the firstborn must not be sacrificed at all
    “Sanctify unto Me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast; it is Mine.”
    And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the Lord slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man and the firstborn of beast; therefore I sacrifice to the Lord all that openeth the womb, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem.’
    The Quran simply clarifies what God has declared long before the Quran was written:
    But if ye had known what this meaneth, ‘I will have mercy and not sacrifice,’ ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
    God does not need to redeem nor does he need any special ritual to save
    New International Version
    Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear.

    While Jesus lived on earth he prayed to God, asking for help from the one who could save him from death. He prayed to God with loud cries and tears. And his prayers were answered because of his great respect for God.

    #787462
    Camillia
    Participant

    @bodhitharta

    Do you believe all the words of the scriptures excluding Paul’s epistles?

    If you believe all the words of the scriptures then you would see that Jesus died for the sins of all mankind, and Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father, since His first advent, teachings, death and resurrection.

    ‘No man comes to the Father but through me. John 14:6

    In order to follow Mohammad, you would have had to have denied Jesus is the Son of God.

    John wrote:

    ‘Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.’

    The Qur’an wrote:
    Allah Has no Son Those who believe that Allah has a son must be admonished since this is a monstrous blasphemy and falsehood (18:4-6). Allah has never begotten a son.

    So, if you believe the words of the Bible, then, Mohammad is a liar.

    If you don’t believe that Mohammad is a liar as defined in the Bible through John, then you do not believe in the Bible.

    So, which is it? The Bible or the Qur’an.

    #787463
    Camillia
    Participant

    And if you don’t believe in the Bible, why are you quoting it as if it is truth?

    #787527
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    7

    #787528
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    I understand your inquiry, however you are reading literally but not accepting what reading and understanding literally means because the scripture says this: New International Version
    Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.

    The Quran does say that Jesus is The Christ so how do you understand that it is not of God when your scriptures say so?

    The Bible does say that Jesus is the son of God but it also says that Adam is the son of God, angels are the sons of God in fact all the people of israel are called “gods” New International Version
    Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”‘?
    New International Version
    “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’

    So if they are all sons of God then Jesus is not the Only son of God, correct? Either that or the term Son of God is not a literal meaning, which is it to you? The Quran does in-fact say that Allah/God has no son in a literal sense.

    O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah ‘Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, (“Be!” – and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh ) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: “Three (trinity)!” Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (god), glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.

    ( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)

     

     

    #787563
    Camillia
    Participant

    7

    7?

    #787569
    Camillia
    Participant

    Yes.
    Adam was the son of God, angels are called sons of God, people are called sons of God.
    But, only one son of God was sinless, and only one son of God is seated at God’s right side in Heaven.
    So, I believe He was more than a messenger, whereas the Qur’an states he was “no more than a messenger”.
    ‘This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.’ (Book of John)
    ‘Allah Has no Son Those who believe that Allah has a son must be admonished since this is a monstrous blasphemy and falsehood’. (Qur’an)
    See the glaring reality.
    Which one is true – the Qur’an or the Bible?
    ‘I have come in my Father’s name (Yah-shua), and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him.

    Jesus is the only way to the Father.
    I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.’ (John 14:6)

    “Cursed is the man who trusts in man. And makes flesh his strength.” (Jeremiah 17)
    Are you trusting in man?
    Yes.
    Mohammad is a man.
    ‘No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven.’ (John 3)
    ‘For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.‘ (John 3)

     

     

    #787865
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God,  do you deny the scripture says this?

    you wrote: This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.’ (Book of John)

    So which son of God are you denying and where in the book of john does it distinguish between sons who are sinless and those who are with sin, are you not aware of what the scriptures say pertaining to David?

    New International Version
    I will proclaim the LORD’s decree: He said to me, “You are my son; today I have become your father.

    Paul uses the same verse from psalms and declares it again for Jesus

    Hebrews 5:5
    In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.”

     

    Now, Cam, what say you about the term being applied to Jesus as it was applied to David? Is David the literal son of God? if not why do you say that Jesus is the Literal son of God when God uses the term “TODAY” after Jesus was already born?

    #787885
    Camillia
    Participant

    Bod, as you said: “Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, do you deny the scripture says this?”.

    Of course not. Please read the chapter you quoted from in context:

    Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

    Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

    So, it is not just the Christ, but the Son of God.

    You asked “Are you not aware of what scriptures say pertaining to David” (I will proclaim the LORD’s decree: He said to me, “You are my son; today I have become your father. You also said: “Paul uses the same verse from psalms and declares it again for Jesus.”

    These verses,  speak of Jesus.

    You also said: “Now, Cam, what say you about the term being applied to Jesus as it was applied to David? Is David the literal son of God? if not why do you say that Jesus is the Literal son of God when God uses the term “TODAY” after Jesus was already born?

    The Father referred to Jesus as His Son many times in the New Testament, (Matthew 17:5, Mark 1:11, Mark 9:7, Luke 3:22, Luke 9:35, John 5:20, etc).

    However, as I understand from the book of Acts (13:26-41), Jesus, in fulfillment of Psalm two, was begotten after death.

     28 And though they found no ground for putting Him to death, they asked Pilate that He be executed. 29 When they had carried out all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the cross and laid Him in a tomb. 30 But God raised Him from the dead; 31 and for many days He appeared to those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, the very ones who are now His witnesses to the people. 32 And we preach to you the good news of the promise made to the fathers, 33 that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, ‘You are My Son; today i have begotten You.’ 34 As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.’ 35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm, ‘You will not allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.’ 36 For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep, and was laid among his fathers and underwent decay; 37 but He whom God raised did not undergo decay. 38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses. 40 Therefore take heed, so that the thing spoken of in the Prophets may not come upon you:41 Behold, you scoffers, and marvel, and perish;
    For I am accomplishing a work in your days,
    A work which you will never believe, though someone should describe it to you.’”

    Now, for a Christian to become a Muslim, do they usually have to make a statement denying Jesus is the Son of God?

     

     

     

     

     

    #787909
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    No one has to make any such statement to dent that Jesus is “the son of God” but still you falter by simply saying that the psalms verse was about Jesus even though it was written hundreds of years before Jesus, what about this?
    <h1>2 Samuel 7:14</h1>
    <div id=”hide690″>

    <small>Viewing the King James Version. Click to switch to 1611 King James Version of 2 Samuel 7:14. </small>

    </div>
    <h2>I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:</h2>
     

    Was this also about Jesus?

     
    <div class=”version-KJV result-text-style-normal text-html “>
    <h1 class=”passage-display”><span class=”passage-display-bcv”>Hebrews 1:5</span><span class=”passage-display-version”>King James Version (KJV)</span></h1>
    <span id=”en-KJV-29969″ class=”text Heb-1-5″><sup class=”versenum”>5 </sup>For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?</span>

     

     

    </div>

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