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Hi,
This is what LU wrote in another post.
“Hi Mike,
There are very few people that would question me as to why I was so insistent on worshipping Jesus AND the Father and they are all on HN. You few are not the norm in the Christian faith, you know that…right? I see Jesus as the Son within the Godhead, you don't. Trinitarians see Jesus as the Son within the Godhead too. That is why the Trinitarians and I can both worship the Son along with the
Father. I disagree with the Trinitarians on some things in the doctrine like the co-equal and co-eternal terms but not the idea of there being a Godhead made up of more than one person.The people that I read about or learn about that seem full of the Spirit and are very fruitful ALL worship Jesus as a member of the Godhead. They are reaching many for God and are people I would like to be with. God seems to be showing them favor. If they were wrong to worship Jesus and teach others to also, I don't think I would be seeing such fruit and such effective ministries.
Do you know of ministries that are demonstrating the fruit of the HS and are very effective for God that do not consider Jesus as part of the Godhead and only worship the Father? I don't hear of any big orthodox Jewish ministry that is out there healing the sick, clothing the naked and feeding the hungry.
Kathi”
The trinity folly began as a binity theory.
Two gods somehow being one god.But Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.[Peter]
Is this similar to Maricon, Christ being only divine and God, that the law came from an inferior God, they are Paul based on scriptures and disregard the Jewish scriptures?
Quote I don't hear of any big orthodox Jewish ministry that is out there healing the sick, clothing the naked and feeding the hungry. Could be they are the ones that don't tell the right hand what the left hand is doing.
Hi brother Nick,
This is where christianity failed in identifying the true nature of Messiah. Jewish Messiah never meant as somebody other than human. Chrisitanity made Jesus more than human and even as God or semi-devine.Peace to you
AdamQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2010,07:45) Hi,
This is what LU wrote in another post.
“Hi Mike,
There are very few people that would question me as to why I was so insistent on worshipping Jesus AND the Father and they are all on HN. You few are not the norm in the Christian faith, you know that…right? I see Jesus as the Son within the Godhead, you don't. Trinitarians see Jesus as the Son within the Godhead too. That is why the Trinitarians and I can both worship the Son along with the
Father. I disagree with the Trinitarians on some things in the doctrine like the co-equal and co-eternal terms but not the idea of there being a Godhead made up of more than one person.The people that I read about or learn about that seem full of the Spirit and are very fruitful ALL worship Jesus as a member of the Godhead. They are reaching many for God and are people I would like to be with. God seems to be showing them favor. If they were wrong to worship Jesus and teach others to also, I don't think I would be seeing such fruit and such effective ministries.
Do you know of ministries that are demonstrating the fruit of the HS and are very effective for God that do not consider Jesus as part of the Godhead and only worship the Father? I don't hear of any big orthodox Jewish ministry that is out there healing the sick, clothing the naked and feeding the hungry.
Kathi”
The trinity folly began as a binity theory.
Two gods somehow being one god.But Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.[Peter]
Rarely does doctrine have much to do with the ability to enter relationship with God. God disreguards doctrine in spite of our insistence on it. He is much more interested in relationship.these people might have good fruits because they in their heart they ignor their impossible doctrine. Most that believe in a God/man Christ do so with their mouths but when it comes to relationship with him they treat him as their brother. they use him as their example even though the doctrine they support make that impossible. They desire to follow in his steps even though their doctrine tells them they cannot. They treat him as a fully human even though there doctrine teaches he is some sort of Hybrid.
martian………Well put , they say Jesus is One of US humans, but treat Him as a GOD , This is the confusion of TRINITARIANS and PREEXISTENCES. They want Jesus to be 100% man and 100% GOD, and OXYMORON. You can be 100% both. IMO
Hi Gene,
Why didn't you get back to me on the free will topic?
Anyway, I've heard that 100% man/100% God thing alot. I always laugh because % means “per 100”. How can you be 200 out of only 100?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 18 2010,00:10) Hi Gene, Why didn't you get back to me on the free will topic?
Anyway, I've heard that 100% man/100% God thing alot. I always laugh because % means “per 100”. How can you be 200 out of only 100?
peace and love,
mike
MikeBecause he is God and can be what ever he wants to be!
He said to Moses “I AM that I AM” which literally means…
I-shall-be that I-shall-be
You say it is impossible for God to take on the likeness of human flesh and be found in fashion as a man. Phil 2:6-8
But with God “All things are possible” except God cannot lie.
Take for instance a glove is 100% glove and put it on your hand which is 100% hand, now your hand and your glove are ONE. Your glove is still 100% glove and your fist is still 100% fist.
“In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and “the Word was God“ John 1:1
The Word became flesh and “made his dwelling among us“. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
No one has ever seen God, “but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. John 1:18
God can be what ever he wants to be.
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,
What is possible is reliant only on pure speculation.What is written is that Jesus is the Son of God.
God is not also His Son.
His Son is at His side.Hi WJ,
Phil 2 does not say the God of Israel came in the likeness of our flesh.,
He did not submit Himself to Himself.I have posted this before, but religious people like WJ will not deal with facts.
WJ says God can do anything. This shows a complete lack of understanding into the nature of God. Here are a few things God cannot do.Can God stop being God or stop existing? The nature of God is infinite meaning no end. God's unchanging moral character is a moral absolute. This includes holiness, justice, love, mercy and truth. God is who He is forever and is the only constant thing (being) in the universe. Only created things subject to time and space which are of a non eternal substance can change. God could not change if he wanted to (which he would not ) Because he is the highest and ultimate state of perfection. Words fail to describe at this point the state God is in.
God cannot change from Who he is to a mortal man capable of sin.
He is not free to act contrary to his nature that is permanent. Does this mean he is not all powerful? No- it means that as a perfect and unchangeable being His commands and actions are rooted in the ultimate good which flow from his nature. God's moral character does not change. “I the Lord change not “Mal.3:6. There is no shadow of change with God (Jm.1:17).
His nature is eternal. He cannot say tomorrow I’ll act like the devil for a while or sin as man does. What God has been, He will always be, (the I Am). He is completely self sufficient within himself.
If God cannot sin and Christ is God then he cannot sin nor be tempted to sin.
God cannot sin, Holiness is part of his intrinsic nature, He cannot do otherwise.Jesus must be capable of sin to be tempted to sin. Otherwise he is not tempted IN ALL WAYS like the rest of us.
As per usual with false doctrine like the Trinity it can only be explained by some mystery that cannot be explained.
Quote (martian @ Mar. 19 2010,10:52) I have posted this before, but religious people like WJ will not deal with facts.
WJ says God can do anything. This shows a complete lack of understanding into the nature of God. Here are a few things God cannot do.Can God stop being God or stop existing? The nature of God is infinite meaning no end. God's unchanging moral character is a moral absolute. This includes holiness, justice, love, mercy and truth. God is who He is forever and is the only constant thing (being) in the universe. Only created things subject to time and space which are of a non eternal substance can change. God could not change if he wanted to (which he would not ) Because he is the highest and ultimate state of perfection. Words fail to describe at this point the state God is in.
God cannot change from Who he is to a mortal man capable of sin.
He is not free to act contrary to his nature that is permanent. Does this mean he is not all powerful? No- it means that as a perfect and unchangeable being His commands and actions are rooted in the ultimate good which flow from his nature. God's moral character does not change. “I the Lord change not “Mal.3:6. There is no shadow of change with God (Jm.1:17).
His nature is eternal. He cannot say tomorrow I’ll act like the devil for a while or sin as man does. What God has been, He will always be, (the I Am). He is completely self sufficient within himself.
If God cannot sin and Christ is God then he cannot sin nor be tempted to sin.
God cannot sin, Holiness is part of his intrinsic nature, He cannot do otherwise.Jesus must be capable of sin to be tempted to sin. Otherwise he is not tempted IN ALL WAYS like the rest of us.
As per usual with false doctrine like the Trinity it can only be explained by some mystery that cannot be explained.
Hi Martin,The standardized translation of ‘I am that I am’ can be proven to be wrong;
yet the N.W.T. (JW's) version of the Bible has this phrase (אהיה אשר אהיה) translated correctly.Exodus 3:14 in the N.W.T.: …“I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE”…
The AKJV linguists successfully translated the phrase אהיה into “I WILL” hundreds of times in the “Old Testament”.
The AKJV translators also added words (which they italicized) to aid in translational differences;
they did this practice throughout the bible so as to NOT corrupt it!The AKJV linguists should have translated אהיה אשר אהיה into “I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE” (“Will be”=63 and “YHVH”=63);
this can be proven! The phrase ‘i am’ cannot be translated back into Hebrew; for it ‘i am’ is the product of man.
‘i am’ has now turned into the false god of religion!'The devil's trick'; 'i am'=23! (AKJV Psalm 102:11-13)
AKJV Mark 13:6 For many shall come in my(Christ's) name,
saying, I am; and shall deceive many. (Romans 1:25 / John 6:15)AKJV Deut.3217 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not,
to (i am) new gods that came newly up (Rev.13:1), whom your fathers feared not.AKJV Rev.13:11 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,
having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads (i am) the name of blasphemy.Daniel 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he (i am) corrupt by flatteries:
but the people that do know their God (YHVH) shall be strong, and do exploits .The AKJV bible was completed and in the public's hands in 1611.
The AKJV bible is going to bring about satan's final defeat!AKJV John 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world (i am) is judged.
The prince of this world is 'i am'(satan; the son of perdition).AKJV 2Thess.2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
AKJV 2Thess.2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God=63(YHVH=63),
or that is worshipped; so that he as (i am)God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he(satan) is God.AKJV 2Thess.2:8 And then shall that Wicked (i am) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth (Rev.19:15),
and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan (Mark 13:6)
with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:What lie did they believe?
AKJV Romans1:23-25 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,
and to birds(the rapture), and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness
through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:Who changed the truth of God into a lie,
and worshipped and served the creature(Jesus) more than the Creator(YHVH), who is blessed for ever. Amen.Ed J (AKJV Hebrews 11:34 / Daniel 11:18)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 04 2010,15:45) Hi,
This is what LU wrote in another post.
“Hi Mike,
There are very few people that would question me as to why I was so insistent on worshipping Jesus AND the Father and they are all on HN. You few are not the norm in the Christian faith, you know that…right? I see Jesus as the Son within the Godhead, you don't. Trinitarians see Jesus as the Son within the Godhead too. That is why the Trinitarians and I can both worship the Son along with the
Father. I disagree with the Trinitarians on some things in the doctrine like the co-equal and co-eternal terms but not the idea of there being a Godhead made up of more than one person.The people that I read about or learn about that seem full of the Spirit and are very fruitful ALL worship Jesus as a member of the Godhead. They are reaching many for God and are people I would like to be with. God seems to be showing them favor. If they were wrong to worship Jesus and teach others to also, I don't think I would be seeing such fruit and such effective ministries.
Do you know of ministries that are demonstrating the fruit of the HS and are very effective for God that do not consider Jesus as part of the Godhead and only worship the Father? I don't hear of any big orthodox Jewish ministry that is out there healing the sick, clothing the naked and feeding the hungry.
Kathi”
The trinity folly began as a binity theory.
Two gods somehow being one god.But Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.[Peter]
Nick,
Your link expresses different ideas for binitarianism. I would stick with God's word that speaks of unity and not binity. Why complicate things by adding terms that are not in the Bible.Unity in the Bible:
John 17:22
NET ©
The glory you gave to me I have given to them, that they may be one just as we are one – (Do we become binified or unified, will we be a binity or a unity?)Ephesians 2:14
NET ©
For he is our peace, the one who made both groups into one and who destroyed the middle wall of partition, the hostility, (Do both groups become a binity or a unity?)John 17:11 …Holy Father, keep them safe in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one. (This “oneness” cannot mean binity since Jesus is implying several becoming one, not just two. This “oneness” is a unity of several)
John 10:30 I and the Father are one. (One person or essential unity?)
Can you see how being “one” can be more than one person, it can mean unity. Jesus is talking to the Father as them being one…a unity. We don't need to say binity to mean this.
You and your wife are one, a unity or a binity? Do you say you and your wife are united in marriage or binited in marriage?
Binity and trinity are manmade terms that should not have been used, imo. A “oneness” as in “unity” is not a manmade idea but a Biblical idea. I'll stick with “unity.”
Kathi
Hi WJ,
There are just so many things wrong with your post, brother!
You said:
Quote You say it is impossible for God to take on the likeness of human flesh and be found in fashion as a man. Phil 2:6-8 No man has EVER seen God. Not in spirit form, not in flesh form, not in any form. Deut. 4 says:
Quote 15 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, God has never taken the form of a man, woman or any of the other 20 things he mentions in this passage. Hint: If you worship Jesus as God, you are worshipping an idol in the form of a man.
You said:
Quote Take for instance a glove is 100% glove and put it on your hand which is 100% hand, now your hand and your glove are ONE. Your glove is still 100% glove and your fist is still 100% fist. 
No WJ, my hand didn't BECOME ONE with the glove. And if it did somehow morph with the glove, it would be 50% hand and 50% glove. You simply can't have more than 100%. It's like me saying, “I own 30 of the 15 cars in that parking lot.” Impossible. John 1:1 doesn't say the Word was God Almighty. There is only one, and His name is I shall be that I shall be.
You quoted:
Quote No one has ever seen God, “but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. John 1:18 Doesn't this one Scripture answer it for you? NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN GOD! The supernatural heavenly spirit being known as Jesus who is at GOD'S right hand has made GOD know to us.
So to sum up – People saw Jesus but NO MAN HAS EVER SEEN GOD IN ANY FORM OR LIKENESS OR IMAGE —EVER!
And I don't think you ever answered why Stephen was able to see Jesus even after he had ascended and was “God Almighty”, but he could only see the glory of Jehovah.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (martian @ Mar. 19 2010,10:52) As per usual with false doctrine like the Trinity it can only be explained by some mystery that cannot be explained
Hi Martian,Well said. They actually use a lot of different mysteries.
peace and love,
mikeHi all,
If the newly revealed interpretation of YHWH is 'I will be what I will be' then the claim that Jesus was saying that he was God by was of saying 'I AM' in the gospel of John, is even more of a nonesense than it already was: 'Before Abraham was, I will be'!
It is obvious that Jesus said 'Before Abraham [Existed], I [existed].'
Chip chip chip away at trinitarian falsity – the Truth will out!
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 19 2010,15:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 04 2010,15:45) Hi,
This is what LU wrote in another post.
“Hi Mike,
There are very few people that would question me as to why I was so insistent on worshipping Jesus AND the Father and they are all on HN. You few are not the norm in the Christian faith, you know that…right? I see Jesus as the Son within the Godhead, you don't. Trinitarians see Jesus as the Son within the Godhead too. That is why the Trinitarians and I can both worship the Son along with the
Father. I disagree with the Trinitarians on some things in the doctrine like the co-equal and co-eternal terms but not the idea of there being a Godhead made up of more than one person.The people that I read about or learn about that seem full of the Spirit and are very fruitful ALL worship Jesus as a member of the Godhead. They are reaching many for God and are people I would like to be with. God seems to be showing them favor. If they were wrong to worship Jesus and teach others to also, I don't think I would be seeing such fruit and such effective ministries.
Do you know of ministries that are demonstrating the fruit of the HS and are very effective for God that do not consider Jesus as part of the Godhead and only worship the Father? I don't hear of any big orthodox Jewish ministry that is out there healing the sick, clothing the naked and feeding the hungry.
Kathi”
The trinity folly began as a binity theory.
Two gods somehow being one god.But Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.[Peter]
Nick,
Your link expresses different ideas for binitarianism. I would stick with God's word that speaks of unity and not binity. Why complicate things by adding terms that are not in the Bible.Unity in the Bible:
John 17:22
NET ©
The glory you gave to me I have given to them, that they may be one just as we are one – (Do we become binified or unified, will we be a binity or a unity?)Ephesians 2:14
NET ©
For he is our peace, the one who made both groups into one and who destroyed the middle wall of partition, the hostility, (Do both groups become a binity or a unity?)John 17:11 …Holy Father, keep them safe in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one. (This “oneness” cannot mean binity since Jesus is implying several becoming one, not just two. This “oneness” is a unity of several)
John 10:30 I and the Father are one. (One person or essential unity?)
Can you see how being “one” can be more than one person, it can mean unity. Jesus is talking to the Father as them being one…a unity. We don't need to say binity to mean this.
You and your wife are one, a unity or a binity? Do you say you and your wife are united in marriage or binited in marriage?
Binity and trinity are manmade terms that should not have been used, imo. A “oneness” as in “unity” is not a manmade idea but a Biblical idea. I'll stick with “unity.”
Kathi
Hi LU,
As you say we become one with Christ in the same way as he is with his God. As we are in Christ so also are we in his God. We worship his God with and in him.We are not worshiped because of our unity with Christ and his God and neither should we be.
But you suggest we should worship two gods, Christ and his God?
Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 20 2010,09:13) Hi all, If the newly revealed interpretation of YHWH is 'I will be what I will be' then the claim that Jesus was saying that he was God by was of saying 'I AM' in the gospel of John, is even more of a nonesense than it already was: 'Before Abraham was, I will be'!
It is obvious that Jesus said 'Before Abraham [Existed], I [existed].'
Chip chip chip away at trinitarian falsity – the Truth will out!
Hi JustAskin,Hebrew has No [W] sound, No [J] sound and the symbol ש is pronounced “Sh”.
God's Name [יהוה] transliterates directly into English as YHVH; transliterates means sounds(phonics).
God's Name [יהוה] also translates directly into English as YHVH; because the Hebrew alphabet lacks vowel representations!GOD’s most sacred Holy Name [יהוה] was given to us directly from the Hebrew language.
Correctly translating Hebrew into other languages can be difficult however.
Some basic linguistical rules need to be considered when translating Hebrew texts.
These include a lack of spacing between words, as a general rule has no written vowels
and the basic direction in which Hebrew is written (opposite: from right to left).
Hebrew word spacing is a modern advent that distinguishes one word from the next,
aiding both translators and multi-linguists alike. Unwritten “implied” vowel sounds
are a concern because, correct pronunciations of Hebrew words are at risk.GOD’s Name (יהוה) translates directly into English as YHVH because the Hebrew alphabet lacks vowels.
Hebrew has No [W] sound, No [J] sound and the symbol ש is pronounced “Sh”.
[יהוה] GOD’s Name [י] Yod [ה] Ha [ו] Vav [ה] Hey …is pronounced YÄ-hä-vā & [יה] YÄTheomatics(Numbers relating to God) offers proof of this FACT as a second witness(Matt.18:16)…
The “Divine=63” “Deity=63” of “The Bible=63” is “YHVH=63”!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Edj,
Thanks for the overview. I hope the post was generic as, to be frank, and only superficially interested in linguistical analysis.
The point was that if 'the linguists', the backroom boys, so to speak, come up with a correct translation of Scripture, then I am all for it, end of (Correct = Holy Spirit revealed…)
This, then, helps to clear up some of the anomalies that have baffled believers and caysed them to become embattled with others over meaning and intent of the original Scripture writers.
If [God's name] (how ever it is spelled or pronounced) is Correctly Tanslated as 'I will be whom I will be', then clearly Jesus' remark that 'Before Abraham, I was' now translated as 'Before Abraham was, I will be' is a nonesense, and always was…
Again, clearly, Jesus was saying 'I existed before Abraham himself came into existence': 'Before Abraham was, I am'(I have been)This then provides the reason for the reaction of Jew, they thought he was a mad man to be claiming what they might call 'Divinity' and sought to stone him. Note that John 8:59 doesn't state WHY they wanted to stone him but surely, if they thoughtnJesus was saying that he was God himself [on earth in the form of man], they would have Worshipped him, wouldn't they, after all, they knew the Scriptures that God had sent angels in the form of man and such were not to be trifled with!!!
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