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Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,04:50) K Quote I can see Jehovah in Jesus using the same words why
because their is no other way to address men if you can see Jehovah God almighty in Jesus Christ ,you must have a vision problem
T,In this case it is no vision problem; but instead it is seeing Jehovah, who is invisible, as one sees the wind.
John 14:8-11
King James Version (KJV)8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,04:46) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2012,15:36) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 02 2012,06:20) T, A better answer than your last.
Job 7:21
King James Version (KJV)21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
Daniel 12:2
King James Version (KJV)2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Are these two passages speaking of the body, soul, or both sleeping?
T,We were discussing what Jesus means when he stated that Lazarus was sleeping/dead.
Kwhy you do not answer your own question ,so I would understand you better ,
you are a student right
yes you say so ,so what you think those two verses are talking about
body or soul or both
T,The body sleeps in death as the soul departs to Sheol; and the flesh becomes part of the earth.
I did not find where the KJV states the soul sleeps.
Psalms 116 speaks rest of the soul. A psalms to look into further on this issue.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2012,17:36) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,04:50) K Quote I can see Jehovah in Jesus using the same words why
because their is no other way to address men if you can see Jehovah God almighty in Jesus Christ ,you must have a vision problem
T,In this case it is no vision problem; but instead it is seeing Jehovah, who is invisible, as one sees the wind.
John 14:8-11
King James Version (KJV)8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Kthink for a momment that I can not understand this ok,
so please tell in plain English what this all means ,because this is talking in abstract ,so do you know what it all means
Quote In this case it is no vision problem; but instead it is seeing Jehovah, who is invisible, as one sees the wind. the above is your answer to my remark to you that follows ,””if you can see Jehovah God almighty in Jesus Christ ,you must have a vision problem”””
please explain how you make those connections because it seems to me you just trow things to me that you do not understand yourself,
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
now you quote me a scripture that you are not commented with your understanding so that I can share with you ,so I asume that you do not understand what Jesus is saying ,rightbecause if you say it is as Jesus says ,then Jesus must be God right ,or did Christ meant something else
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2012,17:44) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,04:46) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2012,15:36) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 02 2012,06:20) T, A better answer than your last.
Job 7:21
King James Version (KJV)21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
Daniel 12:2
King James Version (KJV)2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Are these two passages speaking of the body, soul, or both sleeping?
T,We were discussing what Jesus means when he stated that Lazarus was sleeping/dead.
Kwhy you do not answer your own question ,so I would understand you better ,
you are a student right
yes you say so ,so what you think those two verses are talking about
body or soul or both
T,The body sleeps in death as the soul departs to Sheol; and the flesh becomes part of the earth.
I did not find where the KJV states the soul sleeps.
Psalms 116 speaks rest of the soul. A psalms to look into further on this issue.
Kthe body does not sleep ,I am a full adult ,so the body is decaying ,rotten under ground ,in plain English,
the soul goes to his rest ,right were ever that can be ,return to God ;;;;;;
here is your scripture you are looking for ;
Job 7:21
King James Version (KJV)21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I SLEEP in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
T,
Jesus acts, speaks, and thinks as he is carried along by the Spirit; while the prophets merely spoke.
When you look as Jesus you see Jehovah's actions and hear his words.
In this way you see Jehovah.
T,
There are two passages that speak of sleep in the ground; and one of those explicitly state it is the body that sleeps. There are no passages that explicitly state the soul sleeps.
The soul departs the body and goes to Sheol; and so is not found with the body.
Jesus is stating that Lazarus' body sleeps because his soul departed and could not be found.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2012,02:35) T, Jesus acts, speaks, and thinks as he is carried along by the Spirit; while the prophets merely spoke.
When you look as Jesus you see Jehovah's actions and hear his words.
In this way you see Jehovah.
Kyou will have to think more about God as almighty supreme over all ,not look at it like he is a man ,
so try again ,
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2012,02:43) T, There are two passages that speak of sleep in the ground; and one of those explicitly state it is the body that sleeps. There are no passages that explicitly state the soul sleeps.
The soul departs the body and goes to Sheol; and so is not found with the body.
Jesus is stating that Lazarus' body sleeps because his soul departed and could not be found.
KGe 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died)
Job 27:8 For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?
Isa 10:18 And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body
Isa 38:17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.Mk 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
is the name Hades in Greek and Sheol in Hebrew not stand for the COMON GRAVE
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2012,10:36) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,04:50) K Quote I can see Jehovah in Jesus using the same words why
because their is no other way to address men if you can see Jehovah God almighty in Jesus Christ ,you must have a vision problem
T,In this case it is no vision problem; but instead it is seeing Jehovah, who is invisible, as one sees the wind.
John 14:8-11
King James Version (KJV)8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Kerwin………I tell you they just don't understand it, even though Jesus Plainly explained it . Simply Amazing!>They do not know what a Spirit is so they can not understand how GOD was truly “in” Jesus They look at a Spirit as a “PERSON Not as SPIRIT. Spirits are not persons they are what is “IN” Beings>
Peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,13:06) because if you say it is as Jesus says ,then Jesus must be God right ,or did Christ meant something else [/b]
Terricca……….If God were “IN” you and you were doing “HIS WILL” , you could also say if you have seen me you have seen the Father also. Face it Pierre you do not believe the Father was truly “in” Jesus No matter how many time He said it now Do you?Again as i have said before, it is because you simply do not know what a Spirit is> So you mind can understand that God the Father, who is a Spirit,was indeed truly “in” Jesus .
peace and Love to you and yours…………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 04 2012,14:08) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,13:06) because if you say it is as Jesus says ,then Jesus must be God right ,or did Christ meant something else [/b]
Terricca……….If God were “IN” you and you were doing “HIS WILL” , you could also say if you have seen me you have seen the Father also. Face it Pierre you do not believe the Father was truly “in” Jesus No matter how many time He said it now Do you?Again as i have said before, it is because you simply do not know what a Spirit is> So you mind can understand that God the Father, who is a Spirit,was indeed truly “in” Jesus .
peace and Love to you and yours…………………………gene
genewhen are you going to understand that God does NOT reside in men or in any corrupted body or soul,only the devil likes to do that ,
what man receive from God after they have knowledge of him ,and believe in him they receive the spirit (energy) to fulfill his will what those people desire to do ,and also improve their abilities in many different ways ,
but IF we put the words of God in our heart and soul LIKE HE ASK US TO DO IT THEN WE ALSO WILL RECEIVE ENERGY THAT WILL MOVE US TO DO HIS WILL
READ THE SCRIPTURES AND YOU WILL SEE THAT GOD AS MADE GOOD THE WORKERS THAT WORKED AT THE TEMPLE OF SOLOMON EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE GENTILES HE BLESS THEM AND GIVE THEM SPECIAL SKILLS.
Let's get this thread back on topic.
Gene, to whom or what was Jehovah speaking when He had a conversation with “Satan” in Job 1 and 2?
I say the individual spirit being named “The Adversary”. What do you say?
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,18:15) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2012,02:43) T, There are two passages that speak of sleep in the ground; and one of those explicitly state it is the body that sleeps. There are no passages that explicitly state the soul sleeps.
The soul departs the body and goes to Sheol; and so is not found with the body.
Jesus is stating that Lazarus' body sleeps because his soul departed and could not be found.
KGe 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died)
Job 27:8 For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?
Isa 10:18 And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body
Isa 38:17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.Mk 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
is the name Hades in Greek and Sheol in Hebrew not stand for the COMON GRAVE
T,I will try to address this better but Sheol and Hades are the Israelite and Grecian land of the dead. They are quite similar which explains why the 70 and the Apostles chose translate Sheol to Hades. I do not know if either ever mean Grave; except as a general description of the Land of the dead.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 04 2012,12:10) Let's get this thread back on topic. Gene, to whom or what was Jehovah speaking when He had a conversation with “Satan” in Job 1 and 2?
I say the individual spirit being named “The Adversary”. What do you say?
Mike……….The Sons of God ARE SPIRITS Just as OUR Spirits are , except our Spirits are in our BODIES and can not leave them except when we die. But those Spirit Sons mentioned in Job do not have bodies of any kind , but can enter bodies and effect Spirits that are in our Bodies. God allowed Satan a Adversarial Spirit to enter Job's life effecting his life and turning things against him by inspiring EVIL around Job to come against Job even to his very own body. The only Spirits that have Bodies are the ones GOD give a body to. Just as it says, for he gives “IT” (a spirit) a body just as “HE” (GOD) Choses.Mike Spirits are not BODIES, they only can indwell a Body and that includes GOD , Satan, Wisdom , Love, and etc.
Don't you believe Jesus when He said God is “A” Spirit or when he said the Father is “IN” ME It appears you don't. God “WAS” reconciling the world unto “HIMSELF” through Jesus by the Christos, (spirit) that was “IN” him.
Mike that is not a metaphor God is Spirit and Spirits can indwell Bodies, God views Bodies as Temples he can indwell and Speaking through Jesus' mouth said destory this temple and in three day I (GOD) shall raise it up. Jesus was dead and could not have raised himself up from a dead state, God did it. Just AS IT SAY, “if the spirit that raised Jesus from the grave dwell in you, He or “IT” shall also quicken you “Mortal BodY” what shall quicken our “MORTAL BODIES” Mike, “IT” Shall, you see it is Just that simple Mike. It is a “MORTAL” (BODY) that is Quickened Mike, and a Spirit can not die, so what is quickened a “dead Body”, Then we will again become a “LIVING SOUL” after death.
Mike……….Spirits are types and Kind of intellect that are recieved into our and animals minds they are not bodies of any kind they are what indwells those physical bodies. It's Just that simple. If they are not in a Body they go about adrift in “ARID” Places seeking a body to rest in. They desire any living body that they can effect some control over or they simply are useless and are adrift.
Mike…….Remember where it says LIFE is “IN” The BLOOD, now think about it , how is “LIFE “IN” the Blood?. There is Spirit living in the Blood , or else who doe our cells know how to reproduce and repair themselves there is a world of life in our Blood and the Key to it is Oxygen being supplied by our breathing. This oxygen keep the cells active and each cell perform “IT” individual function in our bodies. So our bodies are Spiritually kept alive even now. So will the Resurrected Bodies in the future be keep alive by Spirit also. But they will be regenerated BODIES of FLESH> IMO
In fact Adam and Eves DNA have never died it is the same DNA the is in ALL human being to this very day. That same life that works in the blood of Adam works in us also it never has stopped existing. Adam could look at all of us an say “you are bone of my bone flesh of my flesh” to this very day. His own piece of flesh body died, but his Flesh never ceased to exist since creation. Therefore it is a truth that says we are all of one flesh IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 04 2012,12:09) when are you going to understand that God does NOT reside in men or in any corrupted body or soul,only the devil likes to do that ,
Terricca…………Wrong God does indwell men, or haven't you read where it say that God may be all in all and through all God lives vicariously in and through his creation> You problem here is you simply do not understand what Spirit is Pierre. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………………………gene
Gene,
I didn't bother to read your huge post. If the DIRECT answer to the question I asked is in that post somewhere, please cut that part out of all the other words, and paste it alone as your answer.
If the DIRECT answer to my question is not in that huge post, then please answer my question directly.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 05 2012,10:12) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 04 2012,12:09) when are you going to understand that God does NOT reside in men or in any corrupted body or soul,only the devil likes to do that ,
Terricca…………Wrong God does indwell men, or haven't you read where it say that God may be all in all and through all God lives vicariously in and through his creation> You problem here is you simply do not understand what Spirit is Pierre. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………………………gene
GENEif what you say is true THEN THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURES AND THE LAW OF MOSES ARE COMPLETELY USELESS AND VOID,AND ALL THINS WERE A WAIST OF TIME ,
NOW YOU CAN THINK ABOUT WHAT I JUST SAY ,AND TRY TO PROVE ME WRONG
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 05 2012,12:31) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 05 2012,10:12) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 04 2012,12:09) when are you going to understand that God does NOT reside in men or in any corrupted body or soul,only the devil likes to do that ,
Terricca…………Wrong God does indwell men, or haven't you read where it say that God may be all in all and through all God lives vicariously in and through his creation> You problem here is you simply do not understand what Spirit is Pierre. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………………………gene
GENEif what you say is true THEN THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURES AND THE LAW OF MOSES ARE COMPLETELY USELESS AND VOID,AND ALL THINS WERE A WAIST OF TIME ,
NOW YOU CAN THINK ABOUT WHAT I JUST SAY ,AND TRY TO PROVE ME WRONG
Terricca…………>Eph 4-6….> One God and Father of “all” who is above “all”, and “through” “all”, and “IN” you “ALL?There is you answer Pierre. Want More?
Eph 4:23-24………> And be renewed in the “spirit” of your “mind” ; And that you put on the “new man” which after “God” is “CREATED” in righteousness and “true holiness”.
Want More
2 Cor 1:21 ……> Now he which establishes us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us “is God”; who has also “SEALED” is and given the earnest of the Spirit “IN” our Hearts.
Want More
1 Cor 15:28…….> And when all thing shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him. that God may be all and “IN” (ALL).
Peace and love to you and yours Pierre…………………………gene
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2012,16:53) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,18:15) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2012,02:43) T, There are two passages that speak of sleep in the ground; and one of those explicitly state it is the body that sleeps. There are no passages that explicitly state the soul sleeps.
The soul departs the body and goes to Sheol; and so is not found with the body.
Jesus is stating that Lazarus' body sleeps because his soul departed and could not be found.
KGe 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died)
Job 27:8 For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?
Isa 10:18 And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body
Isa 38:17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.Mk 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
is the name Hades in Greek and Sheol in Hebrew not stand for the COMON GRAVE
T,I will try to address this better but Sheol and Hades are the Israelite and Grecian land of the dead. They are quite similar which explains why the 70 and the Apostles chose translate Sheol to Hades. I do not know if either ever mean Grave; except as a general description of the Land of the dead.
T,Sheol/Hades are the common grave of the souls of humanity.
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