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Quote Terricca………..Do you want me to quote the 80 or so places where Jesus is refereed to himself as a SON of Man, or where it is stated He would come from the Roots of Jess, from the seed of a women, and where he said He was the Offspring of Kind David, or how about where Moses and the other Prophets said He would come from, and on and on where he is portrayed in many, many, many, many scriptures, where and who he would come into existence . Not one scripture says He would Be “MORPHED from any Past Existing Form of Being , Not even ONE> Are you so ignorant that you lack the knowledge of all those scriptures that state thee FACTS> So pick a number of places you want me quoted to you, that hasn't been quoted over and over here many many times and i will quote them again for you.
You have around 100 or so places to chose form. Bottom Line is Pierre you and Mike and all Trinitarians and Preexistence and JW”S deny Jesus Human Origins and Preach a False Jesus and do a work of Separating Jesus form his human brothers and sisters and that is Antichrist and anti God also.
You as well as they have Made Jesus an Object of worship and corrupted His Image as a Human Being “EXACTLY” as WE ARE. You Trinitarians and Preexistences have turned the IMAGE of JESUS into the “IMAGE” of A Man of SIN and what is even worse you have no IDEA “HOW” your doing it>
peace and love to you and yours Pierre…………………………….gene
NO not all ,just pick the 10 most irrefutable that will do and lets see if what you think is true ,
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 01 2012,17:24) T, You ask me to reveal Scriptures to you but you do not believe them; for if you did then you would not need them revealed to you as you would already know them.
My time is limited and I do not see why I use what time I have on going over something that the other person should already know. Read the parable of the rich man and Lazarus; as my words were based on what Jesus taught about the land of the dead in it. Look into it and study it. When you have done so then we will have a point to start a conversation from. If you have done so then why did you not address Jesus' words instead of asking me for what you already have?
KQuote You ask me to reveal Scriptures to you but you do not believe them; for if you did then you would not need them revealed to you as you would already know them. you wasting time ;small talk will not do ;so you have nothing to show ? right
Quote My time is limited and I do not see why I use what time I have on going over something that the other person should already know. Read the parable of the rich man and Lazarus; as my words were based on what Jesus taught about the land of the dead in it. Look into it and study it. When you have done so then we will have a point to start a conversation from. If you have done so then why did you not address Jesus' words instead of asking me for what you already have? you are so ambitious to teach others ,and argue to the end with no end at the end ;you do that with Mike as well,why
did you ever read the bible from cover to cover without adding your own false doctrines that you have learn of men ,
you tend to explain scriptures ,but when ask for clarification you start to become def and mute
you should answer my question ,what are you afraid of
the truth if you have the truth and are sure of it ,why do you not show me the scriptures were you so intensely believe that Christ teaches a place of torment ,
using reverse psychology or try to send back my own words to protect your ignorance does not cut ,
so either you prove your point by the scriptures or we have done ,and you will stand in the false lane .
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 01 2012,10:33) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 01 2012,17:24) T, You ask me to reveal Scriptures to you but you do not believe them; for if you did then you would not need them revealed to you as you would already know them.
My time is limited and I do not see why I use what time I have on going over something that the other person should already know. Read the parable of the rich man and Lazarus; as my words were based on what Jesus taught about the land of the dead in it. Look into it and study it. When you have done so then we will have a point to start a conversation from. If you have done so then why did you not address Jesus' words instead of asking me for what you already have?
KQuote You ask me to reveal Scriptures to you but you do not believe them; for if you did then you would not need them revealed to you as you would already know them. you wasting time ;small talk will not do ;so you have nothing to show ? right
Quote My time is limited and I do not see why I use what time I have on going over something that the other person should already know. Read the parable of the rich man and Lazarus; as my words were based on what Jesus taught about the land of the dead in it. Look into it and study it. When you have done so then we will have a point to start a conversation from. If you have done so then why did you not address Jesus' words instead of asking me for what you already have? you are so ambitious to teach others ,and argue to the end with no end at the end ;you do that with Mike as well,why
did you ever read the bible from cover to cover without adding your own false doctrines that you have learn of men ,
you tend to explain scriptures ,but when ask for clarification you start to become def and mute
you should answer my question ,what are you afraid of
the truth if you have the truth and are sure of it ,why do you not show me the scriptures were you so intensely believe that Christ teaches a place of torment ,
using reverse psychology or try to send back my own words to protect your ignorance does not cut ,
so either you prove your point by the scriptures or we have done ,and you will stand in the false lane .
T,Where in all your words did you actual address the idea about the land of the dead as spoken in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus?
To me; it seems you are afraid to seek out the truth.
Terricca…….I will give you your Scriptures but lets not say again i don't post scriptures because you fell to read or understand them OK>
Gen 3:15…….> And i will put enmity between you and the women, and between your seed and her “SEED” it shall bruise thy head, and you shall bruise his reel
Deu 18:15…….> The Lord thy God will raise up into you a Prophet from the midst of you, “OF” (from) “your brethren” unto him you shall hearken.
Acts 3:22……..> For Moses truly said n unto the Fathers, A prophet Shall the Lord your God raise up unto you “OF” or (FROM) your brethren, “LIKE UNTO ME” him shall you hear in all thing whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Acts 7:37……..repeats it again.
Isa 11:10…….> And in that day there shall be a “root' of Jesse which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Rom 15: 12 …..> And again Isaiah saith, There shall be a “root” of Jesse and he that shall rise to rein over the Gentiles, in him shall the Gentiles trust.
Rev 22:16……..> I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the Churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star .
Isa 7:14………..> Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold a virgin shall “conceive” and bear a son, and shall call his mane Immanuel.
Matt 1:23………..> repeated there also.
Mat 1:1…….> The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the “son of David” the son of Abraham.
Pierre this is only the tip of the iceberg of scriptures i could go on and on where Jesus said over and over He was a “son of man” [/B where he is mentioned by John three time as coming in the Flesh ,
But non of these thing Makes any difference to you Preexistences and Trinitarians you are determine to do your evil work of “separating Jesus from his Human exactness of us and all your false teaching will fall and you along with it unless you repent. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Pierre……………………….gene
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 01 2012,23:20) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 01 2012,10:33) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 01 2012,17:24) T, You ask me to reveal Scriptures to you but you do not believe them; for if you did then you would not need them revealed to you as you would already know them.
My time is limited and I do not see why I use what time I have on going over something that the other person should already know. Read the parable of the rich man and Lazarus; as my words were based on what Jesus taught about the land of the dead in it. Look into it and study it. When you have done so then we will have a point to start a conversation from. If you have done so then why did you not address Jesus' words instead of asking me for what you already have?
KQuote You ask me to reveal Scriptures to you but you do not believe them; for if you did then you would not need them revealed to you as you would already know them. you wasting time ;small talk will not do ;so you have nothing to show ? right
Quote My time is limited and I do not see why I use what time I have on going over something that the other person should already know. Read the parable of the rich man and Lazarus; as my words were based on what Jesus taught about the land of the dead in it. Look into it and study it. When you have done so then we will have a point to start a conversation from. If you have done so then why did you not address Jesus' words instead of asking me for what you already have? you are so ambitious to teach others ,and argue to the end with no end at the end ;you do that with Mike as well,why
did you ever read the bible from cover to cover without adding your own false doctrines that you have learn of men ,
you tend to explain scriptures ,but when ask for clarification you start to become def and mute
you should answer my question ,what are you afraid of
the truth if you have the truth and are sure of it ,why do you not show me the scriptures were you so intensely believe that Christ teaches a place of torment ,
using reverse psychology or try to send back my own words to protect your ignorance does not cut ,
so either you prove your point by the scriptures or we have done ,and you will stand in the false lane .
T,Where in all your words did you actual address the idea about the land of the dead as spoken in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus?
To me; it seems you are afraid to seek out the truth.
Kerwinfor your own comfort and view I have dig all the scriptures out so you can see them at once (KJV);;
Lk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Lk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Lk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Lk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.Jn 11:9 Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours of daylight? A man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world’s light.
Jn 11:10 It is when he walks by night that he stumbles, for he has no light.”Jn 11:11 After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”
Jn 11:14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,
Jn 11:15 and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”Jn 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
Jn 11:26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
so let see if you have other scriptures on hand and see what you see in it, that is teaches
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 31 2012,21:00) There are flames that destroy a soul and therefore there may also be flames that torment it; as well as water to comfort it.
Fair enough.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2012,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 31 2012,21:00) There are flames that destroy a soul and therefore there may also be flames that torment it; as well as water to comfort it.
Fair enough.
Mike,kerwinI agree ,but what is the flames or fire,stands for
and what is the water stand for in your illustrationT,
A better answer than your last.
Job 7:21
King James Version (KJV)21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
Daniel 12:2
King James Version (KJV)2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Are these two passages speaking of the body, soul, or both sleeping?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 02 2012,08:42) Terricca…….I will give you your Scriptures but lets not say again i don't post scriptures because you fell to read or understand them OK> Gen 3:15…….> And i will put enmity between you and the women, and between your seed and her “SEED” it shall bruise thy head, and you shall bruise his reel
Deu 18:15…….> The Lord thy God will raise up into you a Prophet from the midst of you, “OF” (from) “your brethren” unto him you shall hearken.
Acts 3:22……..> For Moses truly said n unto the Fathers, A prophet Shall the Lord your God raise up unto you “OF” or (FROM) your brethren, “LIKE UNTO ME” him shall you hear in all thing whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Acts 7:37……..repeats it again.
Isa 11:10…….> And in that day there shall be a “root' of Jesse which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Rom 15: 12 …..> And again Isaiah saith, There shall be a “root” of Jesse and he that shall rise to rein over the Gentiles, in him shall the Gentiles trust.
Rev 22:16……..> I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the Churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star .
Isa 7:14………..> Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold a virgin shall “conceive” and bear a son, and shall call his mane Immanuel.
Matt 1:23………..> repeated there also.
Mat 1:1…….> The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the “son of David” the son of Abraham.
Pierre this is only the tip of the iceberg of scriptures i could go on and on where Jesus said over and over He was a “son of man” [/B where he is mentioned by John three time as coming in the Flesh ,
But non of these thing Makes any difference to you Preexistences and Trinitarians you are determine to do your evil work of “separating Jesus from his Human exactness of us and all your false teaching will fall and you along with it unless you repent. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Pierre……………………….gene
genethanks for the scriptures;so let go one by one and see;REMEMBER WE ARE DISCUSSING THE PREEXISTANCE OF CHRIST ;
Ge 3:15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”this is the first prophecy in scriptures right ,so this ONLY IS PROJECTED OF WHAT WILL HAPEN IN THE FUTURE WITH BOTH SEEDS ,RIGHT
YEShere we still do not know who are the seeds in question right yes Dt 18:15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.
this verse does not talk about the seed but about a new coming of a prophet with similar condition as Moses ,right ???yes
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
NOW THERE IS INTERVENTION OF GOD ALMIGHTY ,AND GOD WILL PLACE A SIGN ;SIGN BEING =Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
SO WOULD THAT SON COME TO THE VIRGIN WITHOUT THE INTERVENTION OF GOD???Immanuel, MEANS GOD WITH US,
,so my question here would be HOW CAN GOD BE WITH US IN THE PRESENCE OF THAT SON AND WHY WOULD IT NEED THE INTERVENTION OF GOD Isa 11:10 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious.
this scripture tells us that someone from the ROOT OF JESSE will come at a certain DAY ,and that on that day tree thing will happen 1) the one that comes WILL BE A BANNER TO THE PEOPLE 2) ALL THE NATIONS WILL RALLY TO HIM 3)HIS PLACE OF REST WILL BE GLORIOUS,
So this is only a lead about someone right
yes Ac 3:22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you.
Ac 3:23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from among his people.’HERE IN THIS SCRIPTURES IT TELLS THE CONSEQUENCES OF REFUSING TO LISTEN (OBEY) TO THAT PROPHET AND SO COMFIRMED THE DEUT;18;15
Ro 15:12 And again, Isaiah says,
“The Root of Jesse will spring up,
one who will arise to rule over the nations;
the Gentiles will hope in him.”SAME AS IS;11;10
Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
SO NOW WE KNOW WHO HIS THE ROOT OF JESSE AND THE OFFSPRING OF DAVID, AND ALSO ONE MORE THING ;THE BRIGHT MORNING STAR'
now we know that Christ his in heaven and his above the angel because he tells them what to do ,my question here would be CAN A MAN BE FROM MAN TO MASTER OF ANGELS
HOW DID THIS MAN COULD HEARN THAT POSITION AND WHY MOSES SAID THAT THE ONE THAT WILL COME AFTER HIM HIS GREATER THAN HIM
HOW CAN SOMEONE BE BETTER THAN MOSESMt 1:1 A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham:
Lk 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
Lk 1:33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.”WITCH PART CAN YOU ADDRESSED TO A SIMPLE REGULAR MAN BORN OF A WOMEN ONLY ,AND THE FATHER BEING GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF
WHEN WAS IT ,THAT,THAT SON BECAME THE SON OF THE ALMIGHTY
PLEASE ANSWER THIS Gene ;
please answer my question ,so we can go on to the next step,
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 02 2012,05:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2012,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 31 2012,21:00) There are flames that destroy a soul and therefore there may also be flames that torment it; as well as water to comfort it.
Fair enough.
Mike,kerwinI agree ,but what is the flames or fire,stands for
and what is the water stand for in your illustration
T;I was stating the flames and water can either or both literal and/or symbolic.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 02 2012,20:33) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 02 2012,05:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2012,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 31 2012,21:00) There are flames that destroy a soul and therefore there may also be flames that torment it; as well as water to comfort it.
Fair enough.
Mike,kerwinI agree ,but what is the flames or fire,stands for
and what is the water stand for in your illustration
T;I was stating the flames and water can either or both literal and/or symbolic.
kthink harder it can only be one not both, but it could apply to different things in different ways
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 02 2012,11:34) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 02 2012,08:42) Terricca…….I will give you your Scriptures but lets not say again i don't post scriptures because you fell to read or understand them OK> Gen 3:15…….> And i will put enmity between you and the women, and between your seed and her “SEED” it shall bruise thy head, and you shall bruise his reel
Deu 18:15…….> The Lord thy God will raise up into you a Prophet from the midst of you, “OF” (from) “your brethren” unto him you shall hearken.
Acts 3:22……..> For Moses truly said n unto the Fathers, A prophet Shall the Lord your God raise up unto you “OF” or (FROM) your brethren, “LIKE UNTO ME” him shall you hear in all thing whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Acts 7:37……..repeats it again.
Isa 11:10…….> And in that day there shall be a “root' of Jesse which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Rom 15: 12 …..> And again Isaiah saith, There shall be a “root” of Jesse and he that shall rise to rein over the Gentiles, in him shall the Gentiles trust.
Rev 22:16……..> I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the Churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star .
Isa 7:14………..> Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold a virgin shall “conceive” and bear a son, and shall call his mane Immanuel.
Matt 1:23………..> repeated there also.
Mat 1:1…….> The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the “son of David” the son of Abraham.
Pierre this is only the tip of the iceberg of scriptures i could go on and on where Jesus said over and over He was a “son of man” [/B where he is mentioned by John three time as coming in the Flesh ,
But non of these thing Makes any difference to you Preexistences and Trinitarians you are determine to do your evil work of “separating Jesus from his Human exactness of us and all your false teaching will fall and you along with it unless you repent. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Pierre……………………….gene
genethanks for the scriptures;so let go one by one and see;REMEMBER WE ARE DISCUSSING THE PREEXISTANCE OF CHRIST ;
Ge 3:15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”this is the first prophecy in scriptures right ,so this ONLY IS PROJECTED OF WHAT WILL HAPEN IN THE FUTURE WITH BOTH SEEDS ,RIGHT
YEShere we still do not know who are the seeds in question right yes Dt 18:15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.
this verse does not talk about the seed but about a new coming of a prophet with similar condition as Moses ,right ???yes
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
NOW THERE IS INTERVENTION OF GOD ALMIGHTY ,AND GOD WILL PLACE A SIGN ;SIGN BEING =Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
SO WOULD THAT SON COME TO THE VIRGIN WITHOUT THE INTERVENTION OF GOD???Immanuel, MEANS GOD WITH US,
,so my question here would be HOW CAN GOD BE WITH US IN THE PRESENCE OF THAT SON AND WHY WOULD IT NEED THE INTERVENTION OF GOD Isa 11:10 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious.
this scripture tells us that someone from the ROOT OF JESSE will come at a certain DAY ,and that on that day tree thing will happen 1) the one that comes WILL BE A BANNER TO THE PEOPLE 2) ALL THE NATIONS WILL RALLY TO HIM 3)HIS PLACE OF REST WILL BE GLORIOUS,
So this is only a lead about someone right
yes Ac 3:22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you.
Ac 3:23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from among his people.’HERE IN THIS SCRIPTURES IT TELLS THE CONSEQUENCES OF REFUSING TO LISTEN (OBEY) TO THAT PROPHET AND SO COMFIRMED THE DEUT;18;15
Ro 15:12 And again, Isaiah says,
“The Root of Jesse will spring up,
one who will arise to rule over the nations;
the Gentiles will hope in him.”SAME AS IS;11;10
Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
SO NOW WE KNOW WHO HIS THE ROOT OF JESSE AND THE OFFSPRING OF DAVID, AND ALSO ONE MORE THING ;THE BRIGHT MORNING STAR'
now we know that Christ his in heaven and his above the angel because he tells them what to do ,my question here would be CAN A MAN BE FROM MAN TO MASTER OF ANGELS
HOW DID THIS MAN COULD HEARN THAT POSITION AND WHY MOSES SAID THAT THE ONE THAT WILL COME AFTER HIM HIS GREATER THAN HIM
HOW CAN SOMEONE BE BETTER THAN MOSESMt 1:1 A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham:
Lk 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
Lk 1:33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.”WITCH PART CAN YOU ADDRESSED TO A SIMPLE REGULAR MAN BORN OF A WOMEN ONLY ,AND THE FATHER BEING GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF
WHEN WAS IT ,THAT,THAT SON BECAME THE SON OF THE ALMIGHTY
PLEASE ANSWER THIS Gene ;
please answer my question ,so we can go on to the next step,
terricca…….
…………It say “HE”Shall bruise or crush your head and you shall strike “HIS” Heel. That is all singular specific sense, while it could be mankind in a general singular sense, that could be true true but even if that is the case, Jesus is the only one who has done that so far “Right”. And according to that Prophesy He had to be a “seed” from a women No where do you see it said there it would be a Morphed God, Demigod, or angel of any kind that would do that> So it still shows it would be a seed of the women who would do it , rather it is the whole of the seeds or Just one Makes no difference it still is the seed of a women. Can we at least agree on that point?The next point is about the Prophet being like Moses was. You state it as if he was meaning “similar conditions”, which can mean a lot of different things, but “LIKE ME” is referencing as the SAME as the one speaking the Prophecy.
The Messiah has never been looked on by any Jew or Isrealite as nothing other than a Man Just like Moses was a Man. You are forcing the text to meet you preconceived ideas of Preexistence. Not to mention that Moses said He would be raised up from from their “BRETHREN”> Not from some “PREEXISTENT” PAST “existence”.
Next.. Pierre………> It makes no difference how God chose to bring the Messiah into existence, he still would be a Human Being coming into existence through a women in order to fulfill Prophecy.
Next……Pierre……..> Yes scripture tell us that someone “FROM” the Root of Jesse will come at a certain Day, and Jesus was and is that “SOMEONE”. He is from the ROOT of JESSE a MAN Just as we are> How can you simply say this is “ONLY” a LEAD about someone , it is a Lead about Jesus the Christ A MAN from the Root of a man.
You ask………”can a man be from Man and Master Angels, “YES” he can , no you not you shall Judge Angels God has Put all things under the foot of man> Just as scripture say and the Man Jesus is only the “FIRST” to accomplish this goal that God has for us all.
Pierre you asked which part can i address to a simple regular man born of a women only , and the Father being God almighty himself.
Answer……..We all have but one true Father and that is God almighty, or do you not believe Jesus when he said to his apostles your father in heaven knows you have need of these things, and again, “OUR FATHER” who art in heaven.
Pierre, can you begin to see who far you and all Trinitarians and Preexistence have “separated” yourselves form “identifying” yourselves with Jesus on any level at all. In effect you are saying God can not do for me nothing like he did for Jesus becasue i am so “DIFFERENT” then He is. Your own teachings have driven a wedge “SEPARATION” between you and Him and GOD also.
You just can't see it yet, but i believe someday you will . Jesus is one of US Pierre, he is “EXACTLY LIKE we ARE in EVERY WAY with OUT EXCEPTION. He is Son of MAN Just as we are, He is Son of God, Just as we who believe are. He is flesh of our flesh and bone of our bone> He now possess a Resurrected Physical Body and will posses that Body for ever and ever, he is SON OF MAN who is also a Son of God.
Jesus became as all men a Son of God when he was born and when he recieved the Holy Spirit into him at the Jordan river, God's “SEED”, at that point the Father was “IN” HIM and He in the Father, IMO
peace and love to you and yours Pierre……………………………gene
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 01 2012,17:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2012,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 31 2012,21:00) There are flames that destroy a soul and therefore there may also be flames that torment it; as well as water to comfort it.
Fair enough.
Mike,kerwinI agree ,but what is the flames or fire,stands for
and what is the water stand for in your illustration
Don't ask me, Pierre. I still believe the souls of the dead are in Sheol, conscious of nothing at all; and that the teaching of Abraham and Lazarus was simply a parable, and not to be taken as a literal teaching that the souls of the dead are animated in Sheol.Kerwin disagrees with me, but has scriptures that might support his belief. I can disagree with him on the interpretation, but I can't fault his understanding of those scriptures.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 03 2012,10:51) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 01 2012,17:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2012,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 31 2012,21:00) There are flames that destroy a soul and therefore there may also be flames that torment it; as well as water to comfort it.
Fair enough.
Mike,kerwinI agree ,but what is the flames or fire,stands for
and what is the water stand for in your illustration
Don't ask me, Pierre. I still believe the souls of the dead are in Sheol conscious of nothing at all; and that the teaching of Abraham and Lazarus was simply a parable, and not to be taken as a literal teaching that the souls of the dead are animated in Sheol.Kerwin disagrees with me, but has scriptures that might support his belief. I can disagree with him on the interpretation, but I can't fault his understanding of those scriptures.
MikeI do not believe that the soul as any action were it is after dead,because to animated it s need a body ,and that one in decay right ,so only the soul his in a waiting place for God to do what he wanted according to what we have done either good or bad,but I do believe that the wicked do not share the same waiting room ,(you can call this sheol if you want to )
this is what I believe is pictured in the parable,but all have to Waite for Gods time ,first resurrection or second resurrection according to what WE have done ,if only God can destroy the soul then it does not die when we die in the flesh ,only our flesh decay and is gone but the soul remain to be judged after it is resurrected ,
remember we are carrying our own load of sins in the way we live ,this is our soul the print out of who we are ,
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 02 2012,11:28) I do not believe that the soul as any action were it is after dead,because to animated it s need a body
My understanding is that to be animated, it needs SPIRIT, not a body. And the spirit went back to God when the person died.Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 02 2012,11:28) I do believe that the wicked do not share the same waiting room ,(you can call this sheol if you want to )
I call the “waiting room” Sheol and Hades because the Bible calls it Sheol and Hades.Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 02 2012,09:39) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 02 2012,20:33) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 02 2012,05:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2012,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 31 2012,21:00) There are flames that destroy a soul and therefore there may also be flames that torment it; as well as water to comfort it.
Fair enough.
Mike,kerwinI agree ,but what is the flames or fire,stands for
and what is the water stand for in your illustration
T;I was stating the flames and water can either or both literal and/or symbolic.
kthink harder it can only be one not both, but it could apply to different things in different ways
T,I can see Jehovah in Jesus using the same words to mean many things as limited humans are known to do the same.
* There is a fiery lake into which the wicked will be tossed on Judgement Day.
* Jesus speaks of the Spirit as Water.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 02 2012,06:20) T, A better answer than your last.
Job 7:21
King James Version (KJV)21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
Daniel 12:2
King James Version (KJV)2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Are these two passages speaking of the body, soul, or both sleeping?
T,We were discussing what Jesus means when he stated that Lazarus was sleeping/dead.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2012,15:36) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 02 2012,06:20) T, A better answer than your last.
Job 7:21
King James Version (KJV)21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
Daniel 12:2
King James Version (KJV)2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Are these two passages speaking of the body, soul, or both sleeping?
T,We were discussing what Jesus means when he stated that Lazarus was sleeping/dead.
Kwhy you do not answer your own question ,so I would understand you better ,
you are a student right
yes you say so ,so what you think those two verses are talking about
body or soul or both
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2012,15:33) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 02 2012,09:39) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 02 2012,20:33) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 02 2012,05:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2012,09:27) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 31 2012,21:00) There are flames that destroy a soul and therefore there may also be flames that torment it; as well as water to comfort it.
Fair enough.
Mike,kerwinI agree ,but what is the flames or fire,stands for
and what is the water stand for in your illustration
T;I was stating the flames and water can either or both literal and/or symbolic.
kthink harder it can only be one not both, but it could apply to different things in different ways
T,I can see Jehovah in Jesus using the same words to mean many things as limited humans are known to do the same.
* There is a fiery lake into which the wicked will be tossed on Judgement Day.
* Jesus speaks of the Spirit as Water.
KQuote I can see Jehovah in Jesus using the same words why
because their is no other way to address men if you can see Jehovah God almighty in Jesus Christ ,you must have a vision problem
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 03 2012,12:34) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 02 2012,11:28) I do not believe that the soul as any action were it is after dead,because to animated it s need a body
My understanding is that to be animated, it needs SPIRIT, not a body. And the spirit went back to God when the person died.Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 02 2012,11:28) I do believe that the wicked do not share the same waiting room ,(you can call this sheol if you want to )
I call the “waiting room” Sheol and Hades because the Bible calls it Sheol and Hades.
Miketheir is for sure one place the body goes that is 6 foot under ,this is called hades or sheol no argument
this is were all physical things end on earth .
but the soul is not physical it is spiritual ,it is US meaning ,our thoughts ,our emotions,our feelings, our loves ,our hate,our history live …..
we receive our soul blank ,but we build it up from birth,
this is why we need Christ Ransom to give us a clean start ,
so the waiting room for the soul is to God but what does it mean “return to God ” to me it means return to the power of God for judgement ,it is more like wen you turn your school book to the teacher for marking as soon he as it that s it, you have no longer control over it ,all is in the hands of the teacher,get it back with a mark ,
so to my understanding the spirit his the soul we received and it goes back to him that has given it ,to be judged on,
when Adam was created he received the breath of live in his nostril and so became a living soul ,
a men can separate himself from his body in feelings in emotion,he also can travel in his own mind ,the body is only for action to take and accomplishing things from the mind
the spirit is willing but the body his weak.
scriptures do not say were it goes or were is that waiting place ,it is definitely not under the dirt ,dirt does not hold spirit ,
the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus to me it shows only different places for different types of persons according to their behavior.
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