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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 28 2012,23:24) To All…………Consider this Satan is like saying the other side of the coin, so to speak in Logic. Some one would say on the one hand it is this or that , then on the OTHER hand is this or that. The term Satan simply comes from a word meaning an ADVERSARY , in Spirit terms it is a ADVERSARIAL (SPIRIT) or intellect giving us another opinion or view. This is (IN) all Men and EVEN GOD uses it Just as he did in JOB'S case and in the Case of Adam and EVE they were using it also , The did not obey God becasue they were look at the other side of their existing situation, Their own minds were causing them to disobey not some other “BEING” of some kind, That aspect of Life would have to be Mastered by man. This SPIRIT lead to the spirit of Disobedience and was working (IN) them, It was part of their own serpented make up. Jesus in the wilderness overcame his own self and brought this Nature in him under control, and became subject to the word of GOD that was His PERSONAL Trial in life. He master himself and became obedient to the (WILL) of GOD. And we musty also overcome it as He did. IMO peace and love to you all…………………………………………………..gene
Gene;You are correct that Satan means Adversary; which is in keeping with the then Hebrew way of naming as Angel means Messenger and Spirit means Wind.
It is a Satan that bore the sword against Balaam; from whom his donkey saved him.
Satans are adversaries of man in many ways such as tempting man and beast; including bacterial and viruses to attack them. We can see this with Job; when their Prince did just that.
Your objection to satans is that they are said by some to be ghosts that inhabit man. Scripture makes it clear there are angelic adversaries to humanity that seek to control humans through their desires; and so it is foolish to deny they exist.
Do you believe Scripture speaks of a body composed of spirit; other than the type of body that makes ghosts? Ghosts are naked souls and have no outer man. A demon with a body composed of spirit would also lack an outer self and so be naked.
In your objection to the teachings of adversaries do not be tricked into responding with the teachings of other adversaries but instead seek the truth.
Quote (Wakeup @ June 25 2012,11:56) GeneB. Can I add another question to you?
Who or what is satan in the book of Job?
can you explain?wakeup.
Gene,Were you going to directly address this post?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 29 2012,10:30) Quote (Wakeup @ June 25 2012,11:56) GeneB. Can I add another question to you?
Who or what is satan in the book of Job?
can you explain?wakeup.
Gene,Were you going to directly address this post?
Mike B.Hi mike,and GeneB has also not answered my first question.
Who tempted Eve in the garden?
wakeup.
To all…………Satan is simply an adversarial Spirit in the book of Job ,(IT) could not get to Job becasue God had shielded Job form (IT'S) influence (IN) him and therefore in his life, until God removed the protection then (IT) was allowed to effect Job. Spirits created by God that give us reasoning can be considered as a created son of GOD. Because God created (ALL) Spirits that exist. and that Includes adversarial spirit , the adversarial Spirit , God created is not alway bad it can produce Wisdom in fact (IT) is a aspect of Wisdom, Just like it says in Genesis about EVE, When the women “SAW” that the tree (that which produces from “SELF” )was good to make one “WISE” She took of the fruit and did eat (take to herself) to “KNOW” (experience) Good and Evil. Before this happened Her and Adam were blind until they ate (took to themselves) from the Tree (that which produces from Self) the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL.
We are son of God not because we are flesh beings but because we are Spirits (intellects) living (IN) theses Bodies. As i have said before a Spirit is not a Being even though (IT) can be Personified as a Being, Such as a Satan “PERSON” it is what is (IN) a Being . This adversarial Spirit is (IN) all Human “BEINGS” it is an aspect of our very existences it causes us to reason from different view points. It was not a Satan Person that was talking with God concerning Job is was GOD'S own reasonings that reasoned it. God himself thought that Job could have been corrupted in the future because of His shielding Evil (influence ) from him. His own reason reasoned this, not some other “BEING” . So God used this Adversarial Spirit (INTELLECT) to bring Evil on Job, becasue it was need for Jobs Salvation. God knew Job had a potential Hugh problem and decided to deal with it for Jobs ultimate good. It had nothing to do with some bet between God and a Satan “PERSON” as many assume, God knew all along what the outcome was going to be. It was God all along that Brought everything on Job Himself , for Jobs ultimate Good.
If you understood what a SPIRIT is you could easily understand this. Spirit are not PERSONS they are aspects of a Persons (intellect) that work in our Minds, That animate us through thought and control our bodies also. IMO
peace and love to you all…………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2012,08:57) To all…………Satan is simply an adversarial Spirit in the book of Job ,(IT) could not get to Job becasue God had shielded Job form (IT'S) influence (IN) him and therefore in his life, until God removed the protection then (IT) was allowed to effect Job. Spirits created by God that give us reasoning can be considered as a created son of GOD. Because God created (ALL) Spirits that exist. and that Includes adversarial spirit , the adversarial Spirit , God created is not alway bad it can produce Wisdom in fact (IT) is a aspect of Wisdom, Just like it says in Genesis about EVE, When the women “SAW” that the tree (that which produces from “SELF” )was good to make one “WISE” She took of the fruit and did eat (take to herself) to “KNOW” (experience) Good and Evil. Before this happened Her and Adam were blind until they ate (took to themselves) from the Tree (that which produces from Self) the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL. We are son of God not because we are flesh beings but because we are Spirits (intellects) living (IN) theses Bodies. As i have said before a Spirit is not a Being even though (IT) can be Personified as a Being, Such as a Satan “PERSON” it is what is (IN) a Being . This adversarial Spirit is (IN) all Human “BEINGS” it is an aspect of our very existences it causes us to reason from different view points. It was not a Satan Person that was talking with God concerning Job is was GOD'S own reasonings that reasoned it. God himself thought that Job could have been corrupted in the future because of His shielding Evil (influence ) from him. His own reason reasoned this, not some other “BEING” . So God used this Adversarial Spirit (INTELLECT) to bring Evil on Job, becasue it was need for Jobs Salvation. God knew Job had a potential Hugh problem and decided to deal with it for Jobs ultimate good. It had nothing to do with some bet between God and a Satan “PERSON” as many assume, God knew all along what the outcome was going to be. It was God all along that Brought everything on Job Himself , for Jobs ultimate Good.
If you understood what a SPIRIT is you could easily understand this. Spirit are not PERSONS they are aspects of a Persons (intellect) that work in our Minds, That animate us through thought and control our bodies also. IMO
peace and love to you all…………………………………………gene
gJas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.any other view
Gene,
Surely God did not say to Himself, “What do you think of my servant Job?”,
and then answer Himself saying, “Stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”,
and then say to Himself, ““Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 30 2012,01:57) To all…………Satan is simply an adversarial Spirit in the book of Job ,(IT) could not get to Job becasue God had shielded Job form (IT'S) influence (IN) him and therefore in his life, until God removed the protection then (IT) was allowed to effect Job. Spirits created by God that give us reasoning can be considered as a created son of GOD. Because God created (ALL) Spirits that exist. and that Includes adversarial spirit , the adversarial Spirit , God created is not alway bad it can produce Wisdom in fact (IT) is a aspect of Wisdom, Just like it says in Genesis about EVE, When the women “SAW” that the tree (that which produces from “SELF” )was good to make one “WISE” She took of the fruit and did eat (take to herself) to “KNOW” (experience) Good and Evil. Before this happened Her and Adam were blind until they ate (took to themselves) from the Tree (that which produces from Self) the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL. We are son of God not because we are flesh beings but because we are Spirits (intellects) living (IN) theses Bodies. As i have said before a Spirit is not a Being even though (IT) can be Personified as a Being, Such as a Satan “PERSON” it is what is (IN) a Being . This adversarial Spirit is (IN) all Human “BEINGS” it is an aspect of our very existences it causes us to reason from different view points. It was not a Satan Person that was talking with God concerning Job is was GOD'S own reasonings that reasoned it. God himself thought that Job could have been corrupted in the future because of His shielding Evil (influence ) from him. His own reason reasoned this, not some other “BEING” . So God used this Adversarial Spirit (INTELLECT) to bring Evil on Job, becasue it was need for Jobs Salvation. God knew Job had a potential Hugh problem and decided to deal with it for Jobs ultimate good. It had nothing to do with some bet between God and a Satan “PERSON” as many assume, God knew all along what the outcome was going to be. It was God all along that Brought everything on Job Himself , for Jobs ultimate Good.
If you understood what a SPIRIT is you could easily understand this. Spirit are not PERSONS they are aspects of a Persons (intellect) that work in our Minds, That animate us through thought and control our bodies also. IMO
peace and love to you all…………………………………………gene
GeneB.When God created Adam and Eve;he said'' it was good.
but you say;it was not good,for satan is in them.Is this correct?At the beginning Adam and Eve did not know what is good and what is evil. But you say; they knew what is evil;be cause it was coming from inside them.Is this correct?
The scriptures says that evil came from OUTSIDE.Evil met with God in heaven(satan),and all the angels of God were there.
The snake repeated Gods words in the garden and then contradicted it.This is definitely not Eve speaking from her inside.
WAS THIS ALL coming FROM INSIDE THEM??
Not forgetting what God said when he created them;he said ''and it was good.GOOD MEANS GOOD,THERE IS NO EVIL IN GOOD.
————————————————-So what you are saying about Job is, that he inflicted damage to himself: just suddenly he decided to hurt himself AND HIS FAM. AND STOCK to the max.(we know such thing today as crazy,mad.).
Because Job did not know what was happening in heaven between God and satan.Did he?How did Job burn his house and kill his familly? If it all came from inside him;how did he do that? did he do that himself? it was his servants that told him what happened to his stock ,home and fam.
———————————————————–
To sum up:Evil in Adam and Eve came from the outside, in them.
Two humans were created Good,then evil came and thought them to rebel. From thence on generations after generations evil is with men.Satan is controling mens thoughts;but God also gave us a thing called conscience.Then God started to reveal himself through Moses to israel,and now to us through Jesus.The enemy is out there;not in us,but we can let him in by our style of living.
Leave him out there, rebuke him in the name of jesus,and he will flee.wakeup.
Wake ……….All Spirit come from the out side of our Flesh including our own. The Sprit of a Satan is not a “BEING” working from the out side it is within a Person, because (IT) is Spirit. When Jesus called PETER SATAN he was talking to him not to some other elusive “BEING” creeping around jumping in and out of People as Most assume.
Yes all God created is Good even the Spirit of and adversary can be a tool used for Good as in the case of Job. It was not a Satan “PERSON” that brought all the EVIL on Job , no more the it was an Satan that brought the Evil on Saul it was all from GOD himself. need proof?
Job 42:11….> : and they bemoaned him and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him
Jdg 9:23…> Then “God sent” an EVIL SPIRIT between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt “TREACHEROUSLY” with Abimelech.
1 Sa 16:14….< But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and the evil Spirit from the LORD troubled him.
1 Ki 22:23…….> Now therefore the LORD has put a “LYING SPIRIT” in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD has spoken EVIL concerning thee.
As you can see God himself sends EVIL Spirit (intellects) on MEN at times The Spirit of an adversary is not “always” a bad thing as you assume even God can be an Adversary in a persons life as in the case of Job and Saul (however it is for there ultimate good) IMO.
We all have (IN) us the Propensity for Sin and to resist Gods words, or for that matter anyones words , opposite views are considered as adversarial view and work to produce Wisdom in us all. EVE realized this when She said that eating of the Knowledge of good and evil was desired in order to make one WISE. Even God said later “LOOK Man Has Become as we are to “KNOW” Good and EVIL. The word Know there is to derive a Knowledge by association with. Not Just by hear about something, but a real personal relationship with it. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2012,00:23) Wake ……….All Spirit come from the out side of our Flesh including our own. The Sprit of a Satan is not a “BEING” working from the out side it is within a Person, because (IT) is Spirit. When Jesus called PETER SATAN he was talking to him not to some other elusive “BEING” creeping around jumping in and out of People as Most assume. Yes all God created is Good even the Spirit of and adversary can be a tool used for Good as in the case of Job. It was not a Satan “PERSON” that brought all the EVIL on Job , no more the it was an Satan that brought the Evil on Saul it was all from GOD himself. need proof?
Job 42:11….> : and they bemoaned him and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him
Jdg 9:23…> Then “God sent” an EVIL SPIRIT between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt “TREACHEROUSLY” with Abimelech.
1 Sa 16:14….< But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and the evil Spirit from the LORD troubled him.
1 Ki 22:23…….> Now therefore the LORD has put a “LYING SPIRIT” in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD has spoken EVIL concerning thee.
As you can see God himself sends EVIL Spirit (intellects) on MEN at times The Spirit of an adversary is not “always” a bad thing as you assume even God can be an Adversary in a persons life as in the case of Job and Saul (however it is for there ultimate good) IMO.
We all have (IN) us the Propensity for Sin and to resist Gods words, or for that matter anyones words , opposite views are considered as adversarial view and work to produce Wisdom in us all. EVE realized this when She said that eating of the Knowledge of good and evil was desired in order to make one WISE. Even God said later “LOOK Man Has Become as we are to “KNOW” Good and EVIL. The word Know there is to derive a Knowledge by association with. Not Just by hear about something, but a real personal relationship with it. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………………..gene
GeneB.Basically what you are saying is; that satan as an angel, does not exist,therefore lucifer does not exist; God never created an angel named lucifer: the dragon does not exist,and therefore his angels does not exist.and the war in heaven when the devil and one third of the angels were cast into the earth is not true.Its just symbolising.
The lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels does not exist.The dragon in revelation13 gave the beast HIS POWER AND HIS SEAT(throne),does not exist.(just symbols).
Satan will be bound for a thousand years is not going to happen.There is no such as fallen angels.Gog gathering his armies after he was released from prison does not exist; Jesus was tempted by his inner evil thoughts;so that makes Jesus not perfect,but he had evil inside him,promising himself all the glory of the world.??
The father of evil does not exist,Job did it all to himself.
Just as God can make someone think evil thoughts does not mean that satan does not exist.Not understanding that God controls all things.God had a meeting with the angels in heaven in Job; THE ANGELS ARE REAL, BUT SATAN IS NOT REAL.God had a conversation with his inside,and all the angels are listening to God talking to himself.
Adam and Eve did not know how to think evil so how can it come from inside them? oh of course; God put it in them.
So the serpent(satan) is not an angel,he was never created
Its all a missunderstanding;(Satan would really really love this).we are all possessed by satan our evil thinking.When Jesus saw satan WENT IN Judas iscariot,it was Judas his thinking went in,but you said that evil thinking comes from the inside,not from the outside??
Satan appearing as the angel of light is not true.It must be our thinking appearing as an angel of light.??
The devil does not exist as an angel.can our evil thinking appear as an angel; I wonder?Therefore angels dont exist;and therefore Micha'el,Gabri'el,Rafa'el,Penu'el does not exist.Gadre'el which is(lucifer,satan)does not exist.(lucifer is our evil thinking).
Its all us;we are the satans inside us;we have been accusing the wrong creature,a creature that does not even exist.??
We should have been accusing our selves.I WOULD LIKE EVERYONE TO READ THIS SO THEY WILL KNOW,THAT WE ARE ALL THE SATANS INSIDE US, ACCORDING TO GENE B. WE ARE ALL POSSESSED BY SATAN.
wakeup.
Good post Wakeup.
I would like to see you post those same points, numbered one by one, with some “YES or NO” questions at the end of them. That way, Gene could actually directly address your points instead of re-posting his “intellect inside us” post yet again.
I will use one of your great points as an example:
Job 1
One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”1. Gene, is it your understanding that the ANGELS who came to present themselves before Jehovah truly exist, but SATAN, who came along with them, does not? YES or NO?
2. If your answer to #1 is “YES”, then who exactly did Jehovah ask, “Where have you come from?” ?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2012,03:53) Good post Wakeup. I would like to see you post those same points, numbered one by one, with some “YES or NO” questions at the end of them. That way, Gene could actually directly address your points instead of re-posting his “intellect inside us” post yet again.
I will use one of your great points as an example:
Job 1
One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”1. Gene, is it your understanding that the ANGELS who came to present themselves before Jehovah truly exist, but SATAN, who came along with them, does not? YES or NO?
2. If your answer to #1 is “YES”, then who exactly did Jehovah ask, “Where have you come from?” ?
Mike B.You did it better than me. I think that is the right way to do.
wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ July 03 2012,09:34) Gene; Do you believe in fallen angels?
Kerwin.Yes he does;exept for satan is not a fallen angel,but (he) it is the evil that is inside men.So Jesus was tempted by the evil that was inside him.
This is how I understand it.Satan is inside all of us.
It would be nice to hear his reply to your question and mine.Have a nice one.
wakeup.
To all………Show a single scripture that says there is a SATAN who is a fallen ANGEL. Would like to see that an perhaps my view may change. Scripture depicts Satan as a Serpent or Beast, Dragon , but never as a “Fallen Angel” of any kind. Spirts are some times depicted as “PERSONS” in Scripture (SYMBOLICALLY) such as Wisdom, Love, etc, This is called Personification and Satan is also Personified as a Person as well as the word GOD, But what did Jesus Say, I have spoken to you about the Father in a Proverbs (factious illustrations) language , but a time will come when I will show you clearly about him Is that not interesting even God the Father is presented in a (factious) way. The bible is full of symbolic languages , personifications, Parables , Proverbs, Metaphors, and without understanding these thing you can't even begin to understand many scriptures. Genesis is full of them there is no tree that produces the knowledge of good and evil, there is is not real serpent talking to Eve. The complete book of Revelations is said to be “SIGNIFIED” that means Symbolized and you can't even begin to understand it without understanding those symbols, that is why there is thousands of different speculations and different interpretations of it, but very few (if any) truly understand it all.
Satan or ADVERSARY is just another Symbolic rendering of an influencing SPIRIT(intellect) that effect all man Kind and Life itself. There is no Satan “BEING” there is the working of an Adversarial SPIRIT (intellect) in the Hearts of Men and Women, and Angels, Jesus, and the LORD our God, and when it is against the YAHWEH our GOD'S own purposes it is EVIL and Brings forth Sin in a persons life. There are no Satan and Devil “BEINGS” going around jumping in and out of people that is simply a false teachings. Man himself is a SATAN , Jesus told PETER HE was a SATAN when he went against GOD Purposes , becasue he did not savior the things of GOD as Jesus said. The Pharisees were the childern of the Devil not because there was a real devil “BEING” but because they were against the Purposes of God and were acting as adversaries of GOD and Jesus. Personifications of Spirits does not make them Beings but (aspects) “OF” Beings. Another word the way there minds are working and any given time as in the case of Peter. Think about it!.
peace and love to you all………………………………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 04 2012,01:57) To all………Show a single scripture that says there is a SATAN who is a fallen ANGEL. Would like to see that an perhaps my view may change. Scripture depicts Satan as a Serpent or Beast, Dragon , but never as a “Fallen Angel” of any kind. Spirts are some times depicted as “PERSONS” in Scripture (SYMBOLICALLY) such as Wisdom, Love, etc, This is called Personification and Satan is also Personified as a Person as well as the word GOD, But what did Jesus Say, I have spoken to you about the Father in a Proverbs (factious illustrations) language , but a time will come when I will show you clearly about him Is that not interesting even God the Father is presented in a (factious) way. The bible is full of symbolic languages , personifications, Parables , Proverbs, Metaphors, and without understanding these thing you can't even begin to understand many scriptures. Genesis is full of them there is no tree that produces the knowledge of good and evil, there is is not real serpent talking to Eve. The complete book of Revelations is said to be “SIGNIFIED” that means Symbolized and you can even begin to understand it without understanding those symbols, that is why there is thousands of different speculations and different interpretations of that it, but very few (if any) truly understand it all. Satan or ADVERSARY is just another Symbolic rendering of an influencing SPIRIT(intellect) that effect all man Kind and Life itself. There is no Satan “BEING” there is the working of an Adversarial SPIRIT (intellect) in the Hearts of Men and Women, and Angels, Jesus, and the LORD our God, and when it is against the YAHWEH our GOD own purposes it is EVIL and Brings forth Sin in a persons life. There are no Satan and Devil “BEINGS” going around jumping in and out of people that is simply a false teachings. Man himself is a SATAN , Jesus told PETER HE was a SATAN when he went against GOD Purposes , becasue he did not savior the things of GOD as Jesus said. The Pharisees were the childern of the Devil not because there was a real devil “BEING” but because they were against the Purposes of God and were acting as adversaries of GOD and Jesus. Personifications of Spirits does not make them Beings but (aspects) “OF” Beings. Another word the way there minds are working and any given time as in the case of Peter. Think about it!.
peace and love to you all………………………………………………………………..gene
Gene B.Isiah 14:12–14.(lucifer fallen)(he wanted to be as God)
Ezekiel 28:12–14.(dual maning:the king of tyrus and his master satan).(has been in eden)(the same lucifer full of wisdom and perfect in beauty).2 Cor.11:14. And no marvel; for satan -HIMSELF- is transformed into an ANGEL OF LIGHT.
15.Therefore it is no great thing if -HIS- ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
wakeup.
Wakeup……….So did ADAM and EVE. According to Genesis. That is what the fall of man is all about, it is about Man trying to be a GOD. The adversarial Spirit (intellect) working in EVE caused her to reason, “For God Knows that your eves shall be opened and you shall be as GODS KNOWING Good and EVIL”. and again, God said, “Look the Man has become as we are to Know good and evil”. Man trying to be a GOD is no different then your so-called SATAN “BEING” trying to BE a GOD that was working in the KING of TYRUS. Man himself is the SATANS and DEVILS on the earth and do the works of Devils becasue they are the Devils and Satans of this earth. IMO
Wakeup go and read what Jodi has posted on this subject and maybe it will enlighten you.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………………….gene
Hi Gene,
Were you going to address my last post to you? (The bolded questions in the first post on this page)
Mike……….The LORD Yahweh was addressing a SPIRIT (INTELLECT) one of the “SEVEN” Spirits he uses to bring about his purposes in the earth, that is why it said, it was going to and fro in the earth. That is not a PERSON MIKE as you assume, it is a SPIRIT and SPIRITS are NOT persons or Beings but are aspects of PERSONS and BEINGS Created by GOD and sent forth into all the earth. There are SEVEN DISTINCT SPIRITS (INTELLECTS) that Compose mind of one GOD, Who we call Yahweh or as you call Jehovah One of those of those SPIRITS is the SPIRIT (INTELLECT) of an ADVERSARY VIEW This give GOD the other View of things and He uses it to bring about his work and purposes. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………………..gene
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