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Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2012,09:13) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 29 2012,19:46) It was the man who ask him to swear to God he would not torture him Because Jesus had said to the “MAN”, for the evil spirit to come out of HIM.
Hi Gene,Was it the man who asked for permission to go into the pigs?
Mike….Yes it was the mans Mouth those unclean Spirits were speaking through, they can not speak on there own, Because they have no Bodies of their own. Just as God Spirits can Speak though us, No difference, Spirits are the Cognate intellects in our Minds. Spirits are like facets of diamonds they each adds their own unique type and kind, Spirits are what LIFE IS, either unclean or clean, good or evil, makes no difference as regards to what a Spirit (IS). either make the tree good and its fruit good or makes the tree corrupt and its fruit corrupt, for every tree (that which produces from self) is know by fruit it Produces. Had you known what Spirits ARE you would understand that. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 01 2012,07:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2012,09:13) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 29 2012,19:46) It was the man who ask him to swear to God he would not torture him Because Jesus had said to the “MAN”, for the evil spirit to come out of HIM.
Hi Gene,Was it the man who asked for permission to go into the pigs?
Mike….Yes it was the mans Mouth those unclean Spirits were speaking through, they can not speak on there own, Because they have no Bodies of their own.
But it wasn't the man himself who wanted to go into the pigs, right? And if it was the spirits who wanted to go into the pigs, and not the man, it becomes clear that the spirits had a mind and a will of their own, right?Mike……….The man was completely taken over by those spirits (IN) Him and he spoke their words , all spirits want bodies to live in and control, they desire bodies to live (IN) or they go about in “ARID” (dry) places looking for rest, they produce what their particular aspect of Life (IS) either clean or unclean.
Doesn't it say for the spirit earnestly “DESIRES” us. and again, “know you not that your bodies are the temple of the Living GOD,” Yes Spirit can speak through human mouths , did not God Speak through Jesus' Mouth, destory this temple and in three days I (GOD) shall raise it up. that was not Jesus speaking Mike that was God speaking first Person through Jesus' mouth. Spirits are “intellects” and they can speak through any body. They give that Body they are in its cognate thoughts that they Produce while occupying it.
Mike, Maybe this will help you understand What i am saying.
Mat 10:19…..> But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what you shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak. (now notice this carefully Mike) vers 20..> for it is not “YOU” that speak, but the “SPIRIT” of you Father which Speaks (IN) YOU.
All spirits try to effect their ways on our minds they all want us to give our lives over to them and live to their wills or desires once they are (IN) us. God the Father has given us the (ITS) Spirits that are US, bodies of OUR OWN, but all Spirits do not have bodies of their own and desire them it all depends on who we Let (IN) with us, good spirits or evil spirits, clean or unclean, What type or Kind of Spirits we are seeking we can find and let them (IN) our bodies with us. Therefore it say seek and you shall find, Knock and it shall be opened unto you, ask and it shall be given you. What we go after you will find and it will effect our lives either in a positive way or a negative way. Depends on the spirits involved. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2012,07:12) Hi GB,
What are your sources?
Not scripture
Nick…………Can you see the scripture I quoted . Here is another one for you, and this time read it carefully please.Mat 17:21….> Howbeit this “KIND” goes not out but by prayer and fasting.
Nick did you notice the Word “KIND” why did not Jesus say this “Person or Being” goes not out but by prayer and fasting. Spirits are not “BEINGS” or PERSONS” they are types and kinds of life “INTELLECTS” what goes into BEINGS or PERSONS. Giving them their particular (INTELLECTS) they are made of. GOOD or EVIL, CLEAN or UNCLEAN. But without a BODY they can effect Nothing. They simply float around in endless space finding no rest. They are types and Kinds of life forces. God lives Vicariously in and Through His creation. God is Spirit also, He was (IN) Jesus Speaking through HIM . IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 02 2012,08:18) All spirits try to effect their ways on our minds they all want us to give our lives over to them and live to their wills or desires once they are (IN) us.
So you agree that these spirits have wills of their own. Good, that is what I was trying to get you to see. It seems to me that you once denied this fact.Hi GB,
So there are CLEAN spirits?
Who told you as scripture does not say so?
The Holy Spirit is of heaven and of God and not related to demons.Mike……….Spirits produce “THEIR” own cognate thoughts they represent what their aspect of life is and certainly they will produce their own particular kind or type of life in a Person which will drive that persons will after all they are influencing life forces. But are the individual “persons” with their own many aspects of reasonings as we are like you and many falsely believe ? No they are Not! they simply work in a Person to produce their particular type or Kind of influence. They can be expelled from that person and replaced by other types and kinds of Spirits. The Holy Spirit for example is a Particular Spirit Jesus called it the Spirit of TRUTH. that Spirit give us the ability to have a cognate thought or intellect of the Truth when we hear it. Each Spirit add to our make up as a Person or Being. It Just depend on what Spirits are in us. If it is a clean or unclean spirit we will act accordingly , if it is the Spirit of God we will act it out accordingly. All life is about Spirits the types and Kinds that are actively working in a Person or Being. God is a Spirit and as a result can be (IN) a Person or beings of any Flesh no matter what type of Flesh it is.
We through our Word are expressing the Spirits that are at work (IN) us all at every instant of our lives. If a person has a wrong or evil Spirit it can be replaces by a good Spirit, and that person will respond in the way that Spiirt is driving him or her.
They can only come into us if we allow them to and many unwittingly do this and their lives are effected by them either for the good or evil which ever kind and type of Spirit (IT) is. This is how God changes or transforms us , by the renewing of our minds .
God Made our Spirits and gave (IT) a Body of “IT'S own. Just as he did the Angels, he created their Spirits in them and gave them Bodies of their own also. Now when it say he gave them a Body of IT'S Own that mean that Being has (IT'S) OWN Body, and becasue it is “IT'S” OWN as we are It them is called a LIVING SOUL. This is a independent Spirit with it's own body separate from all other life forms an individual entity. But what ever that LIVING SOUL is doing depends on the Spirit or Spirit working in it. Rather clean or unclean evil or good.
for every tree (that which produces from self) is known by “IT'S” FRUIT (that which “IT” Produces). Either make the tree good and “IT'S” fruit good or Make the tree Corrupt and “IT'S” fruit corrupt.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………………gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2012,07:17) Hi GB,
So there are CLEAN spirits?
Who told you as scripture does not say so?
The Holy Spirit is of heaven and of God and not related to demons.
Nick…….If their are unclean Spirits there are Clean also Brother, Just as there is Good and Evil. God gave the Clean and uncle Law to illustrate that very Point Nick. He wants us to chose the Clean and His Spirit guides us to do that also. But the lust of the Flesh and lust of the eyes cause many to choose wrongly at times. Therefore we should alway seek God to 'CLEANSE” us from unrighteousness and uncleanness . We should be cleansing by the washing of the Words of God. All of this is SPIRITUAL Nick, It is a process. If you understood what Spirits are you would easily understand this IMO.peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 03 2012,08:12) Mike……….Spirits produce “THEIR” own cognate thoughts they represent what their aspect of life is and certainly they will produce their own particular kind or type of life in a Person which will drive that persons will after all they are influencing life forces.
Hi Gene,It is evident to me that you are simply making this stuff up off the top of your head. It is surely not of any scripture.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 03 2012,08:12) But are they individual “persons” with their own many aspects of reasonings as we are like you and many falsely believe ? No they are Not! Wasn't it the spirits' own reasonings that caused them to want to be sent into the pigs instead of being sent out of the area? Doesn't that display that they have their own minds and their own wills?
And is there any being in existence who has his own mind and will, yet can't be categorized as an “individual person”? If so, name one for me.
Hi GB,
You would not have to post so much and work so hard to convince us of your beliefs if you submitted to the teaching of Jesus in the Holy Scriptures.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 04 2012,13:54) Hi GB,
You would not have to post so much and work so hard to convince us of your beliefs if you submitted to the teaching of Jesus in the Holy Scriptures.
NAND WHAT THAT WOULD BE ;YOUR FAULTY BELIEVES AND REFUSAL TO BELIEVE CHRIST OWN WORDS
?Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 04 2012,02:32) It is evident to me that you are simply making this stuff up off the top of your head. It is surely not of any scripture. And is there any being in existence who has his own mind and will, yet can't be categorized as an “individual person”? If so, name one for me.
Mike…………NO Spirit is a Person, a Spirit is what is (IN) a Person. Is Wisdom a PERSON, as Scripture personifies it? Does wisdom Speak and have its own being as a PERSON? NO!Even Jesus said he used “Proverbial Language” to describe God the FATHER . That word Proverbs means (fictitious Illustrations). He said a time would come when he would show clearly who the “FATHER WAS” why is that Mike if the Jesus was portraying Him rightly in the first place?
Let me help you here , it is becasue God the Father is not a PERSON as Jesus was Personifying Him GOD A SPIRIT. And Spirits are NOT PERSONS They are ASPECTS or type and kinds of Life itself. Spirits work in Bodies or Beings to produce their effects in those bodies they are in. Spirit are “IT'S” not He or She's , they are the life driving forces that can exist (IN) Beings.
peace and Love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Hi Gene,
This was part of my daily reading today:
1 Corinthians 14
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.It seems that Paul didn't consider his spirit to be his “intellect” – since he listed them as two different things.
Also, in my understanding, if someone or something has a will and reason of it's own, it is an individual being. The demons that comprised Legion had their own reasoning and their own wills. That makes them beings, as far as I'm concerned.
I agree with you that “wisdom” is not a being, although it is personified in scripture. And I agree that many times in scripture, the word “spirit” describes something that is not a living being with its own reason and will. But that is not always the case. Sometimes the “spirit” mentioned is a living being with its own mind and will.
So when Paul says that all angels are ministering spirits, you shouldn't change the scripture to say “all angels HAVE ministering spirits INSIDE OF THEM”. You should accept the words of the scripture as they are. You should adjust YOUR understanding to align with the scripture instead of adjusting the scripture to align with your understanding.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 04 2012,06:54) Hi GB,
You would not have to post so much and work so hard to convince us of your beliefs if you submitted to the teaching of Jesus in the Holy Scriptures.
Nick………I put a lot of energy into this subject becasue i believe it is a big Problem with Christian Thought. All kind of false teaching and Doctrines stems from not understanding the difference between What a Spirit is and a Living PERSON. Personifying Spirits lead to all kind of speculation by people.Like devils and demons and Satan as Persons that jump in and out a people at will controlling them. This lack of understanding is a Major part of “MYSTERY RELIGION” teachings . You say i haven't used Scriptures to prove my points, but i have used many scriptures to prove them , but you fail to acknowledge them , why is that Nick?
Nick……….I believe what i am saying lines up with what Jesus has said concerning Spirits Brother.
You and Mike believe Spirits are individual Beings, So to you when we are told to try the Spirits to see it they are of GOD , that means to you you are trying the Persons themselves while i believe it is the SPIRITS (intellects) that is working (IN) that person.
When God sent an EVIL SPIRIT to King SAUL it was not a Person he Sent but a Spirit (intellect) to plague Him. Spirits are intellects of the Mind and are expressed through WORDS,and deeds even GOD”S Spirit is expressed through Words and deeds Just as Jesus said it was. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 05 2012,09:57) You should accept the words of the scripture as they are. You should adjust YOUR understanding to align with the scripture instead of adjusting the scripture to align with your understanding.
Mike………Now take you word and apply them to what Paul was talking about when he made that, Statement. He was talking about People talking in “UNKNOWN” Tongues driven by the Spirit of God and he was showing it edified nothing without the mind understanding what that Spirit (intellect) of GOD was communicating to them unless someone could interrupt it to them all. Paul clearly was showing it is the Mind and Spirit working as one that is what counts. After all it is the Spirit in us that drives all our minds.The context of what Paul was talking about is not the subject of what I was speaking of , I agree all spirits produce their own effects on our minds as they work in our minds that is exactly what a spirit that is (IN) a Person does. I am not in disagreement whit what Paul said MIKE, nor what he was talking about. My disagreements is Spirits are NOT PERSONS as Many assume they are. IMO
peace and love to you and yours brother…………………………………gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2012,22:38) Hi GB,
Then stop thinking and believe the words of Jesus.
Nick………Show us where anyone can “STOP THINKING” and still believe the words of Jesus. That statement is an OXYMORON. The only time a person “STOPS THINKING: is when they are DEAD!.Please show me where i disagree with Jesus and his words. rather then just saying that, making it seem i don't know his words, which i find offensive , one becasue it make it appear you know what he is saying more then I do, and by those words positron yourself above Me and others.
Wouldn't it be better to explain your understanding rather then using a put down language that positions yourself above others here. If you are a teacher of the Ignorant a leader of the Blind then do so in a way that does not offend brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Nick……………………………..gene
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