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- January 26, 2013 at 12:27 am#3300322beseeParticipant
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 26 2013,06:48) Mike B. Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath HIGHLY EXALTED him, and given him a name which is ABOVE every name:
Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee SHOULD BOW, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER.
To bow down to a king,or to kneel down to your lover is not worship,its a token of honour,or love.
But to bow down to some one as a token of worship,that is worshipping the person.
When you see Jesus appear; you will bow your knees.
He is second in charge.
You have the Son;you have the Father;you have the Father;you have the Son.wakeup.
Wakeup, this is the post that I agree with.January 28, 2013 at 4:26 pm#330477GeneBalthropParticipantQuote (2besee @ Jan. 26 2013,10:27) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 26 2013,06:48) Mike B. Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath HIGHLY EXALTED him, and given him a name which is ABOVE every name:
Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee SHOULD BOW, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER.
To bow down to a king,or to kneel down to your lover is not worship,its a token of honour,or love.
But to bow down to some one as a token of worship,that is worshipping the person.
When you see Jesus appear; you will bow your knees.
He is second in charge.
You have the Son;you have the Father;you have the Father;you have the Son.wakeup.
Wakeup, this is the post that I agree with.
Mike……….I agree with that also.I believe we should all bow to Christ Jesus TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER and Honor him because he is the head of our houshold , the house hold of God.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene
January 29, 2013 at 1:21 am#330512mikeboll64BlockedThat's what I've been saying here for three years, Gene. We need to show reverence to Jesus (bow before/do obeisance to). But worship belongs only to our God and Jesus' God……. the Father – just like Jesus himself told the devil.
January 29, 2013 at 1:26 am#330513mikeboll64BlockedWakeup,
Do you understand what I posted to you about the Greek word “proskuneo”? I ask because, instead of addressing the facts I posted, you made a post that seemed to be “correcting” me about something.
Please address the info I posted for you – or at least acknowledge that you understand the different meanings of the word “proskuneo”, and that Jesus was never said to have been “worshiped” in any scripture.
January 29, 2013 at 8:49 am#330568ProclaimerParticipantAddress the points Wakeup. It helps build some credibility in your argument. When you cannot, it pulls down your argument.
January 29, 2013 at 8:51 am#3305702beseeParticipantQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 29 2013,04:26) Quote (2besee @ Jan. 26 2013,10:27) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 26 2013,06:48) Mike B. Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath HIGHLY EXALTED him, and given him a name which is ABOVE every name:
Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee SHOULD BOW, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER.
To bow down to a king,or to kneel down to your lover is not worship,its a token of honour,or love.
But to bow down to some one as a token of worship,that is worshipping the person.
When you see Jesus appear; you will bow your knees.
He is second in charge.
You have the Son;you have the Father;you have the Father;you have the Son.wakeup.
Wakeup, this is the post that I agree with.
Mike……….I agree with that also.I believe we should all bow to Christ Jesus TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER and Honor him because he is the head of our houshold , the house hold of God.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene
Amen gene (:
January 31, 2013 at 11:08 pm#330733WakeupParticipantQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 25 2013,13:44) Wakeup, With which part of Gene's post do you disagree?
Did you know the Greek word “proskuneo” can either mean “God-worship” or “reverence given to any man”?
When Trinitarian translations render certain scriptures as “they WORSHIPED Jesus”, the word “proskuneo” is better translated “bowed before”, “did obeisance to”, or “showed reverence to”.
Here's how they “slant” their translations:
Matthew 18:26
The servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’Did this man worship the king as if that king was God Almighty in Jesus' parable? Of course not. But the same Greek word, “proskuneo”, was used in that verse. Now, had that verse been about someone bowing down before Jesus, you can bet your bottom dollar that it would have been translated as “worshiped” by the Trinitarian Bibles. There are MANY such discrepancies in their translations. The rules change when it comes to Jesus – because they go out of their way to make the reader believe Jesus is God Almighty Himself – and that all the people in the NT somehow just “knew” this “fact”, and “worshiped” him as if he was God.
As for John 5:23: it doesn't mean that Jesus should receive the SAME honor as we give the Father. It means, “you guys honor my Father, you should also honor the Son He sent”.
Mike b.First of all I dont know much about the greek language.
If what you are saying is that we must worship Jesus as we worship the father;then we are in agreement.
We have Jesus;we have God.All must go through him.wakeup.
January 31, 2013 at 11:34 pm#330734WakeupParticipantQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 25 2013,13:44) Wakeup, With which part of Gene's post do you disagree?
Did you know the Greek word “proskuneo” can either mean “God-worship” or “reverence given to any man”?
When Trinitarian translations render certain scriptures as “they WORSHIPED Jesus”, the word “proskuneo” is better translated “bowed before”, “did obeisance to”, or “showed reverence to”.
Here's how they “slant” their translations:
Matthew 18:26
The servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’Did this man worship the king as if that king was God Almighty in Jesus' parable? Of course not. But the same Greek word, “proskuneo”, was used in that verse. Now, had that verse been about someone bowing down before Jesus, you can bet your bottom dollar that it would have been translated as “worshiped” by the Trinitarian Bibles. There are MANY such discrepancies in their translations. The rules change when it comes to Jesus – because they go out of their way to make the reader believe Jesus is God Almighty Himself – and that all the people in the NT somehow just “knew” this “fact”, and “worshiped” him as if he was God.
As for John 5:23: it doesn't mean that Jesus should receive the SAME honor as we give the Father. It means, “you guys honor my Father, you should also honor the Son He sent”.
Mike B.Gene said that we ought not worship Jesus.
On the contrary; we must worship Jesus,for he is God,his WORD.
How can you NOT worship Gods WORD,and say you are worshipping God?How can you say ;you are worshipping God but not.follow his commandments,his WORD?
The word is as Holy and powerful as the owner.
Scripture says that EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW IN FRONT OF HIM. This is not just hounour;but worship.Example. When John kneeled down in front of the angel; the angel said ; you must never do that; worship God.
Now how do we worship God? By worshipping his WORD,sent to us as a mediator,By God.God commanded his angels to worship his son.
The bible is called THE HOLY BIBLE; WHY?BECAUSE IT CONTAINS GODS WORDS.
JESUS IS EQUAL IN POWER TO HIS GOD,ONLY BECAUSE THAT POWER IS GIVEN TO HIM BY HIS GOD,AND ALSO HIS FATHER. BUT JESUS IS STILL NOT THE FATHER,HE DEPENDS ON HIS FATHER,AND HE WORSHIPS HIS FATHER.wakeup.
January 31, 2013 at 11:46 pm#330735mikeboll64BlockedThat is the opposite of what I'm saying, Wakeup. We worship (“proskuneo”) and serve as God ONLY Jehovah, the Father Almighty.
We are, however, allowed to show reverence (also “proskuneo”) to others. For example, people bowed to (“proskuneo”) King David. But those people were NOT offering David God-worship (also “proskuneo”) – as if he was God.
Nobody in scripture ever offered Jesus God-worship, Wakeup. Nobody ever offered Jesus the same “worship” as they offer our God and his God.
Jesus told us who ALONE to worship. That One is the Father. We can bow before Jesus to show reverence. We can afford Jesus honor and praise. But we cannot give the worship due ONLY to the Father to Jesus also.
Read Matthew 18:26, that I put in my first post to you. Do you understand that the Greek word “proskuneo” is used in that verse, but the man in the parable wasn't “God-worshipping” his king? Most recent English versions render it, not as “worshiped” like the KJV, but as “prostrated himself”, “paid homage”, “fell down before”, etc.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him – This does not mean that he paid him religious homage, but that in a humble, reverent, and earnest manner he entreated him to have patience with him. He prostrated himself before his lord, as is customary in all Eastern nations when subjects are in the presence of their king.Please just remember this last part. Any time you read in scripture about someone “worshipping” Jesus, although the Greek word used is “proskuneo”, the action it describes is akin to what the servant did to the king in Matthew 18:26. It does NOT equate to people worshipping Jesus in the way they worship his God.
January 31, 2013 at 11:56 pm#330737mikeboll64BlockedQuote (Wakeup @ Jan. 31 2013,16:34) ….we must worship Jesus,for he is God……. JESUS IS STILL NOT THE FATHER,HE DEPENDS ON HIS FATHER,AND HE WORSHIPS HIS FATHER.
These two statements of yours seem to contradict each other.Wakeup, Jesus is very much NOT “God Almighty”. He is called “the Word of God” because he is the servant of God who happens to be God's main spokesman.
Jesus is a powerful spirit being who is INDEPENDENT from the God who brought him into existence as the first of His works.
He is not a “part” of God. He is not a “person in some Godhead thingy”. He is not the “essence” of God.
He is simply one of the many powerful spirit beings that God created as His heavenly sons. Jesus was the first one created, and has been a different being than the God who created him from that very moment.
He is not “magically” linked to God – as if they are both “God”.
You and I really need to have a serious discussion about this. I have been trying for months to steer you into the threads where I am discussing these things with others, but you always bail after a post or two.
This is an important part of the scriptures, Wakeup. Would you be interested in a one on one scriptural discussion about it?
February 1, 2013 at 1:56 am#330753WakeupParticipantQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 01 2013,09:56) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 31 2013,16:34) ….we must worship Jesus,for he is God……. JESUS IS STILL NOT THE FATHER,HE DEPENDS ON HIS FATHER,AND HE WORSHIPS HIS FATHER.
These two statements of yours seem to contradict each other.Wakeup, Jesus is very much NOT “God Almighty”. He is called “the Word of God” because he is the servant of God who happens to be God's main spokesman.
Jesus is a powerful spirit being who is INDEPENDENT from the God who brought him into existence as the first of His works.
He is not a “part” of God. He is not a “person in some Godhead thingy”. He is not the “essence” of God.
He is simply one of the many powerful spirit beings that God created as His heavenly sons. Jesus was the first one created, and has been a different being than the God who created him from that very moment.
He is not “magically” linked to God – as if they are both “God”.
You and I really need to have a serious discussion about this. I have been trying for months to steer you into the threads where I am discussing these things with others, but you always bail after a post or two.
This is an important part of the scriptures, Wakeup. Would you be interested in a one on one scriptural discussion about it?
Mike B.I appreciate your explanation.
I can see that you have not grasp it yet.
The word of God is his breath.Psalms 33:6 By the WORD of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the BREATH OF HIS MOUTH.
The breath of his mouth is part of God. One God.
By his breath also he made a sperm.
His WORD now became flesh.Now there are TWO: father and Son.
Dont forget; the Son was Gods breath,only now is he flesh.
He is glorified back into spirit;and here is the mystery.
A glorified spirit man, and God became one in spirit,and in existence.I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IN ME.(inside).
Rev.22:1.And he showed me a pure river of water of life,
clear as crystal,proceeding out of the throne of God AND of the Lamb.ONE THRONE; TWO BEINGS IN IT. BUT THE OTHER IS PART OF THE ONE.
Rev.1:11. I AM AL'PHA AND O ME'GA,THE FIRST AND THE LAST.(Jesus speaking).
VERSE, 17. FEAR NOT I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST.I WAS DEAD AND I AM ALIVE FOR EVER MORE.
God did not die;but that part of him that became flesh died.The difference is that the Father can operate by him self; but the son can not.
The son is part of the Father: part of the ONE GOD.wakeup.
February 1, 2013 at 2:42 am#330758Ed JParticipantQuote (Wakeup @ Feb. 01 2013,09:34) Mike B. Gene said that we ought not worship Jesus.
On the contrary; we must worship Jesus,for he is God,his WORD.
How can you NOT worship Gods WORD,and say you are worshipping God?How can you say ;you are worshipping God but not.follow his commandments,his WORD?
The word is as Holy and powerful as the owner.
Scripture says that EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW IN FRONT OF HIM. This is not just hounour;but worship.Example. When John kneeled down in front of the angel; the angel said ; you must never do that; worship God.
Now how do we worship God? By worshipping his WORD,sent to us as a mediator,By God.God commanded his angels to worship his son.
The bible is called THE HOLY BIBLE; WHY?BECAUSE IT CONTAINS GODS WORDS.
JESUS IS EQUAL IN POWER TO HIS GOD,ONLY BECAUSE THAT POWER IS GIVEN TO HIM BY HIS GOD,AND ALSO HIS FATHER. BUT JESUS IS STILL NOT THE FATHER,HE DEPENDS ON HIS FATHER,AND HE WORSHIPS HIS FATHER.wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,Are you saying Jesus is another person, or God?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgFebruary 1, 2013 at 3:03 am#330761WakeupParticipantQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 01 2013,12:42) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 01 2013,09:34) Mike B. Gene said that we ought not worship Jesus.
On the contrary; we must worship Jesus,for he is God,his WORD.
How can you NOT worship Gods WORD,and say you are worshipping God?How can you say ;you are worshipping God but not.follow his commandments,his WORD?
The word is as Holy and powerful as the owner.
Scripture says that EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW IN FRONT OF HIM. This is not just hounour;but worship.Example. When John kneeled down in front of the angel; the angel said ; you must never do that; worship God.
Now how do we worship God? By worshipping his WORD,sent to us as a mediator,By God.God commanded his angels to worship his son.
The bible is called THE HOLY BIBLE; WHY?BECAUSE IT CONTAINS GODS WORDS.
JESUS IS EQUAL IN POWER TO HIS GOD,ONLY BECAUSE THAT POWER IS GIVEN TO HIM BY HIS GOD,AND ALSO HIS FATHER. BUT JESUS IS STILL NOT THE FATHER,HE DEPENDS ON HIS FATHER,AND HE WORSHIPS HIS FATHER.wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,Are you saying Jesus is another person, or God?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDJ.I am saying that he is part of God.
wakeup.
February 3, 2013 at 7:04 pm#331151GeneBalthropParticipantWakeup……..> brother so what Part is He, the lesser? , the greater?, or the same?. He must have been the Lesser or why would he worship GOD if he weren't ? And why would he Say “FOR (THOU) art the (ONLY) true GOD> if he were a god to. Little God or Big GOD or any GOD why would he say that?
Wakeup if you could Just get all that false garbage you have learned through false religion over the many years out of your head and start new with the Sprit of God, letting “IT” guide you, i tell you you would see thing differently Brother.
Peace and lvoe to you and yours………………………………………..gene
February 5, 2013 at 2:17 am#331369mikeboll64BlockedQuote (Wakeup @ Jan. 31 2013,18:56) I can see that you have not grasp it yet.
The word of God is his breath.
So God's “breath” is His “SON”?We really need to have this discussion, Wakeup. How about I set up a thread where only you, t8, me, journey, and Devo can discuss this issue?
Would you guys be interested?
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 31 2013,18:56) I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IN ME
Both Father and Son can dwell in us too. That doesn't make us “part of God” does it?Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 31 2013,18:56) Rev.22:1.And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God AND of the Lamb. ONE THRONE; TWO BEINGS IN IT. BUT THE OTHER IS PART OF THE ONE.
Since we have already been told of TWO thrones earlier in Revelation (one of God, and one of Jesus), it is obvious that 22:1 means, “proceeding out of the throne of God and [THE THRONE] of the Lamb”. I can find you some other scriptural examples of similar language, if you'd like.Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 31 2013,18:56) Rev.1:11. I AM AL'PHA AND O ME'GA,THE FIRST AND THE LAST.(Jesus speaking).
Those words aren't in most Greek mss, Wakeup.Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and – This whole clause is wanting in ABC, thirty-one others; some editions; the Syriac, Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, Slavonic, Vulgate, Arethas, Andreas, and Primasius. Griesbach has left it out of the text.People's New Testament Commentary
1:11 I am Alpha and Omega. These words are omitted in the Revised Version, as not found in the best MSS.Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last; and- The oldest manuscripts, omit all this clause.The phrase is also not in the Alexandrian mss. This is just another error that occured in the KJV because it was not translated from old Greek mss – but instead from more recent, altered ones. You won't find those words in verse 11 of any more recent English translation.
The Lord God (the Father) is the ONLY one who says those words in Revelation.
February 5, 2013 at 2:19 am#331370mikeboll64BlockedQuote (Wakeup @ Jan. 31 2013,20:03) EDJ. I am saying that he is part of God.
No, he is the Son of God.February 5, 2013 at 6:38 am#331440ProclaimerParticipantQuote (Wakeup @ Feb. 01 2013,14:56) Psalms 33:6 By the WORD of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the BREATH OF HIS MOUTH.
The breath of his mouth is part of God. One God.
By his breath also he made a sperm.
His WORD now became flesh.
When God breathed into Adam, he became a living soul. Nothing to do with sperm. Everything to do with being made alive.So by the Word all was made and by God's Spirit, all that is alive is alive.
Two things here, not one.
February 5, 2013 at 6:39 am#331442ProclaimerParticipantQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 05 2013,15:17) We really need to have this discussion, Wakeup. How about I set up a thread where only you, t8, me, journey, and Devo can discuss this issue? Would you guys be interested?
Count me in.February 5, 2013 at 6:56 pm#331554terrariccaParticipantQuote (t8 @ Feb. 05 2013,11:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 05 2013,15:17) We really need to have this discussion, Wakeup. How about I set up a thread where only you, t8, me, journey, and Devo can discuss this issue? Would you guys be interested?
Count me in.
I be watching with interestFebruary 7, 2013 at 2:02 am#331966mikeboll64BlockedQuote (terraricca @ Feb. 05 2013,11:56) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 05 2013,11:39)
Count me in.
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