December 4, 2018 at 11:53 am #836022
I have been on a learning journey the past few days.
Firstly, I am a vegetarian.
I was thinking about what James said in Acts that the only requirement for Gentiles is to refrain from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, etc.
Further on, Paul seems to go against this by saying people can eat whatever they wan’t.
I have always been suspicious of Paul but that isn’t what this post is about.
Jesus – is recorded as eating fish and bread etc, but no meat.
Jesus was a Nazerene. Weren’t they vegetarian?
Anyway… one thing has led to another in my journey, and I have since watched videos on YouTube (again) regarding the cruelty of animal farming and slaughterhouses, which is disgusting. Animals are used to serve the idol of money (James warning to avoid things sacrificed to idols and blood), and I would post some but they are too disturbing.
Which led me to wonder why God apparently demanded bloody animal sacrifices in the OT. I have been praying with this question.
I will post something else next.December 4, 2018 at 12:50 pm #836023
Jesus came as the final “sacrificial lamb” and later destroyed the temple, thus putting an end to the practice of animal sacrifices in the temple!
On entering the world Jesus said “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired.” (Hebrews 10:5), which is from Psalms 40:6 “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire– but my ears you have opened — burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.” Isaiah 1:11, “The multitude of your sacrifices– what are they to me?” says God. “I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats” In Jeremiah 7:22, God says: “For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices”.
So God did not speak to the fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices…December 4, 2018 at 1:12 pm #836024
And Jesus said (quoting scripture) “Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ (Matthew 9:13).December 4, 2018 at 1:23 pm #836025
Mercy for animals?December 4, 2018 at 1:27 pm #836026
This video is about chicks. Try searching YouTube for ‘meat industry slaughterhouse truths and cruelty’ regarding cattle, sheep, pigs etc.December 4, 2018 at 7:44 pm #836045t8Participant
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Yes there is a lot of cruelty in this world as a direct result of sin.
As for God demanding sacrifices, this has more to do with his law.The soul that sins will die. So death is the penalty.
But God transferred the death of another thing to preserve beings that are worth more than many sparrows.
So Jesus died once and for all to end the sacrifice demanded. But before that ultimate sacrifice, blood was shed from animals to cover the sins of men for a time. I do not understand why, but there is a logic to it. And while God’s perfect world has the lion laying down with the lamb, while men were sinners, God did what it took to save us and cover our sins. Even if that meant sacrificing an animal in the meantime before the ultimate sacrifice.
If there is one thing consistent about this world that is that all suffer to varying degrees, will all die one way or another, and all will become food for animals or plants. Excepting that some will escape death living at the time of the end.
Finally, how do we not know that animals will be given a beautiful life in the new Earth as people will? We know there will be lions and lambs, unless that is just a figure of speech.
Seeing the evil of this world encourages us to look for the new world and to be citizens of that world now even though we are here for a time. In the scheme of things, we are all here for a short time.
Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.December 4, 2018 at 10:32 pm #836048
Thanks t8, but cows, chooks etc are innocent…
Why all the blood?
God said that HE did NOT speak to the fathers concerning sacrifices, and did not require them.December 4, 2018 at 10:39 pm #836049
Adam and Eve were vegetarians in the garden of Eden. That was God’s intention. As you rightly say, that is how it will be in the new Earth. In the Lord’s prayer, we are told to pray ‘Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread…..’December 4, 2018 at 10:58 pm #836050
This is from http://www.allcreatures.org
“portions of the Old Testament speak out plainly against sacrifice, thus: “the sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart…. For I spake not unto your fathers nor commanded them in the days that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices….I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs or of he-goats….If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fullness thereof. Will I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats?….Though you offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings I will not accept them…For I desire mercy and not sacrifice.” (Scriptural references: Psalm 51:17; Jeremiah 7:22; Isaiah 1:11; Psalm 50:12,13; Amos 5:22.)
Throughout the Old Testament it was customary when introducing any new law, command, or form of worship, to say “the Lord said” so and so, and thereby many things were put into the Lord’s mouth which He undoubtedly never said nor approved.
When the tabernacles or temples or places of worship were mentioned everything was represented as being done for the Lord or in His presence, just as we now call a church the house of the Lord and speak of God’s altar within; but in either case it would be a reflection on the omniscience and goodness of God to say that He approved of all that was done and said in His name.
Rev. Dr. Robert Patterson, in his book entitled “Fables of Infidelity,” published by the Scriptural Tract Repository, and endorsed by the Church, makes the following appropriate statement: “when we say that God is the Author of the Bible, and that it carries with it a divine authority because it is the Word of God, we do not mean that God is the Author of every saying in it, and that every statement recorded in it is God’s mind. Nor when we say that God directed the prophets what to write, and how to write it, do we mean that He also guided every piece of their behavior, as that they never went wrong.”December 5, 2018 at 4:48 am #836055GeneBalthropParticipant
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Miia…..what about God telling Abraham to sacrifice his son Issac? HE SUPPLIED A goat instead of allowing Abraham to sacrifice Issac. Perhaps it is a matter of Faith, then again sin does destory life, and life is in the blood it says, so perhaps it’s a matter of for life for life. Also seening something innescent like a lamb die for something you did does have a seriousness side to it. Perhaps it was to impress on us the seriousness of sin in our lives.
Surely God would not have required it without purpose, even though it repulsed him as well as the one offering it, it must have been for the seriousness of sin in our lives.
I bought a show lamb once for my daughter who was in the FFA club in high school, I help her raise it, we named it Lambert the lamb, it was such a charter we both really loved that little lamb, and had so much fun with it, it was a perfect lamb without any blemish, I thought it would easely win and it went to the cow palace main event and won second place in the event. So we brought it home and when it was about ten months old, I decided to have it butchered for meat, I call the butcher out to kill it and take to the meat barn and cut it up into the cuts we would eat. When he came out I was there to show him the lamb, and when he started to kill it, he took out a knife and I said why arn’t going to shoot it, and he said no we cut it’s throat and let it bleed out, he started to grab Lambert, and I turned an went into the house, because I couldn’t stand to see him kill Lambert, then a little later I went back out and saw him laying dead on the ground, it totally shocked me when I saw that helpless lamb dead. When my daughter found out she cried for her little Lambert. I never did that again.
So perhaps that was the lesson for us to learn, it sends the message of how the innocent pay for our sin also, sin requires payment, Jesus paid for our sins with his life, he is the Lamb of God. God also turned away and forsook him also for a moment, therefore he cried out , “my God, my God , have you forsaken ME!”. Sometimes I think about what little Lambert may have thought.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……geneDecember 5, 2018 at 12:22 pm #836069
Know the feeling. I had two lambs as a kid. Fed them by bottle, read to them, talked to them. One day my parents opened the gate and let them run with the other sheep who were not tame. Eventually, my two lambs became wild and ran from me, like the other sheep. I was angry with them! One day my parents said the lambs ate too much, got bloat and died, and were buried somewhere far away. Recently I asked my parents what really happened to my lambs – please don’t tell me they ended up in the freezer and I ate them? My mother said ‘no, we wouldn’t do that.’ My dad said (to her) ‘of course they ended up in the freezer.’ Now I know why my lambs turned wild. They KNEW. My mother even nicknamed them Stew and Lambchop..December 5, 2018 at 12:33 pm #836070
I think that God cares about the animals more than we imagine. We think we are the superior race, and everything is about us, but is it? Jesus said “If only you had known the meaning of ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.”, which is obviously not just innocent people like Jesus himself, but innocent animals. Jesus said he is the good Shepherd who lays down his life for his sheep. We think he is only talking about humans.
God does not seem to intervene (much) in human affairs (eg , the last two world wars), but gives us free will to choose what we will do. I believe the fathers decided themselves to offer up animal sacrifice to God, perhaps copying the nations around them. God wanted to see their mercy (for the innocent), so they would change their mind and heart. But it didn’t happen.
Nevertheless, there are people in the world who will not eat meat and many dedicate their lives to defending innocent animals. Personally I would, if I could free all of the animals in captivity. Jesus did similar in the temple, and I think his display of anger involved more than just the money being exchanged.
In short God is loving and kind, and would never demand innocent blood.December 5, 2018 at 6:18 pm #836079December 6, 2018 at 1:54 pm #836108
Six minute video about a holocaust survive now animal activistDecember 7, 2018 at 3:42 am #836114GeneBalthropParticipant
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Miia…..I used to hunt animals years ago, now I don’t want to hunt any more, I love animals was raised on a farm we had cattle, chickens, geese etc, I love cattle they are the most gentle creatures . I think the animal creation is amazing and they reflect to us the mind of God our Father.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……geneDecember 7, 2018 at 10:33 pm #836129
Yes amen Gene. I have always liked animals too. Yes cattle are very gentle.December 8, 2018 at 12:01 am #836131
Jesus was possibly a pescetarian (vegetarian but eats fish).December 9, 2018 at 11:13 pm #836153
Warning contains graphic scenesDecember 9, 2018 at 11:16 pm #836154
First seconds in Hebrew, rest in English. About 20 minutesDecember 10, 2018 at 12:14 am #836156
Returning now to the disciples instruction to gentiles (Acts):28 The Holy Spirit has led us to the decision that no burden should be placed on you other than these essentials:29 refuse food offered to idols, blood, the meat from strangled animals, and sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these you will do well. Farewell.
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