Ancient Syriac Documents

[Lightenup]

Irene,
Jehovah is ONE as in the word 'echad' in Hebrew which can mean a unity of more than one. If the writer meant one as in a singular number then another Hebrew word 'yachid' would be more appropriately used. I believe in scripture and believe that echad is a unity here…the NT shows that to be true. The unity has two persons within this unity and each have different roles. One is the 'head' of the other because one is the Father of the other. That is perfectly fine to have different positions within a unity.

Kathi

[Pastry]

Kathi!    

King James Version (KJV)
Psa 83:18   That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.  
KJV
Psa 83:18 Then they will learn that you alone are called the LORD, that you alone are the Most High, supreme over all the earth.  

New International Version (NIV)
Psa 83:18 Let them know that you, whose name is the LORD–that you alone are the Most High over all the earth

English Standard Version (ESV)
Psa 83:18 that they may know that you alone, whose name is the LORD, are the Most High over all the earth.

New American Standard Bible (NASB)  
Psa 83:18 That they may know that You alone, whose name is the LORD, Are the Most High over all the earth.  

Revised Standard Version (RSV)
Psa 83:18 Let them know that thou alone, whose name is the LORD, art the Most High over all the earth.  

American Standard Version (ASV)

Psa 83:18 That they may know that thou alone, whose name is Jehovah, Art the Most High over all the earth…

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
Psa 83:18 And they know that Thou — (Thy name [is] Jehovah — by Thyself,) [Art] the Most High over all the earth!  

Webster's Bible (WEB)
Psa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.  

Hebrew Names Version (HNV)

Psa 83:18 That they may know that you alone, whose name is the LORD, Are Ha`Elyon over all the eretz.  

Westminster Leningrad Codex (WLC)
Psa 83:18 (83:19)וְֽיֵדְעוּ כִּֽי־אַתָּה שִׁמְךָ יְהוָה לְבַדֶּךָ עֶלְיֹון עַל־כָּל־הָאָֽרֶץ׃  

Latin Vulgate (VUL)
Psa 83:18 [Vulgate 82:19] et sciant quia nomen tuum est Dominus solus tu Excelsus super omnem terram  

Greek Septuagint (LXX)
Psa 83:18 (82:19) καὶ γνώτωσαν ὅτι ὄνομά σοι κύριος σὺ μόνος ὕψιστος ἐπὶ πᾶσαν τὴν γῆν

All these Theologians are wrong,according to you? I grand you I don't read Greek, some Latin I do, but these Theologians do,….  and you say they are all wrong?….

Irene

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 23 2011,23:51)

Pierre, You are twisting the scriptures and not just accepting them for what they say.  We are not to lean on our own understanding.  You take what is literal and make it allegorical.  You can see in Gen 18 that Jehovah IS on earth and face to face with Abraham and you say that He is not on earth.  Why?  Because you are not understanding that the unity Jehovah is made up of two called Jehovah.  No man has seen the Father or heard His voice so the Jehovah talking to Abraham face to face was ANOTHER Jehovah, the Son. Kathi

Kathi

I have show you the scriptures to show that Paul use those therms in a allegorical way,
if it is not so show me ?

and in Gen 18 ;it is the angel of God that is in direct contact with Abraham ,this would be the same thing because the angel act as Ambassador from God to Abraham,

you are so far from scriptures it will guide you off the cliff,

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2011,22:55)

Quote How many Jesuses do you think there are, Kathi?  Because JESUS calls Jehovah “my God”.  And you can't come close to scripturally proving your asinine notion that it is only the “man nature” of Jesus who calls Jehovah “my God”, while the “God nature” of Jesus is part OF the One who is being called “my God” BY the “man nature” of Jesus. There is one Jesus and He has two natures which each perform two different roles.  As the role of the 'man from heaven,' He calls the Father 'God' but as the pre-existent Son, He calls the Father…'Father.'  He still is both, the one who pre-existed AND the 'man from heaven' and still refers to the Father as 'God' in that role of being the 'man from heaven' who is now ruling as the 'man' from heaven, now back in heaven.

So then let's just say it plain and simple, so everyone can see how sharp your new doctrine is:

Hey Everyone!  Kathi believes that the “God nature” of Jesus is a co-equal part of Jehovah God.  And she believes that when the “man nature” of Jesus calls Jehovah “my God”, the “man nature” of Jesus is calling the “God nature” of Jesus his own God.  JESUS IS HIS OWN GOD!    

How's that set with you, Kathi?  

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2011,23:46)

t8 said this: Quote Satan is the theos of this world because he is the Father (Originator) of it. He is also the father of murderers etc. That is preposterous to say that satan is the originator/Father of this world.  Are you in the business of exalting satan to creator now?  Jehovah is not satan, t8.  Jehovah created the world.

Kathi,

Jehovah created the earth, not this sin-filled world in which we live. Satan, starting with his deception of Eve, founded this world. He is the father of this world, the god of this world, and owns all the kingdoms of this world. If he did not, then he wouldn't have been able to offer them to Jesus in the wilderness.

I believe that is what t8 meant.

Kathi, Jehovah is the Most High God. (Gen 14:22) And Jesus is the SON OF the Most High God. (Mark 5:7) Do you deny these scriptural facts?

mike

[princess]

Since this thread can be used for uncanonized doctrine, then:

A tractate, found with NHL(DSS), is called the 'On the Origin of the World', the author is unknown, Gnostic view, dated: near the end of the third century. The teachings state that the darkness created adam and the earth, to be used so the true adam would come and care for it not to see it ruined so the darkness could continue with its work, which was causing chaos, the true adam would be busy with saving ones, that his attention would be taken from the darkness.

Would it not be more loving to pull one out of the chaos, then to put one in it?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 23 2011,17:14)

Irene, Jehovah is ONE as in the word 'echad' in Hebrew which can mean a unity of more than one.  If the writer meant one as in a singular number then another Hebrew word 'yachid' would be more appropriately used.  I believe in scripture and believe that echad is a unity here…the NT shows that to be true.  The unity has two persons within this unity and each have different roles.  One is the 'head' of the other because one is the Father of the other.  That is perfectly fine to have different positions within a unity.   Kathi

Your view of God is THEY, not HIM.

[Proclaimer]

God is the Father.

ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL, WHO IS ABOVE ALL, AND
THROUGH ALL, AND IN ALL.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 23 2011,16:46)

That is preposterous to say that satan is the originator/Father of this world.  Are you in the business of exalting satan to creator now?  Jehovah is not satan, t8.  Jehovah created the world.

You show your lack of understanding.

He is the God of this world/age.
YWHW is the God of the Earth.

The world or age is not the same as the Earth.

If you can be wrong here, please consider that you may be wrong in other things too.

If he is not the God of this world to you then who is? And if it is YHWH according to you, then you have to make the world your friend.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Before you say that age and world are different, they are not. It is the same word (aion).

[Pastry]

t8  It it so amazing that many theologians have translated these Scrioptures

Psalm 83:18 that the most Highs name is Jehovah name alone….alone with

Psa 68:4   Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name Jehovah and rejoice before him.  

Psa 97:9   For thou, LORD, [art] high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.  

She did agree that LORD in all capital letters is Jehovah God…

Yet Kathi says Jehovah is a unity, but   not according to these Scriptures……. All those theologians are wrong, that translated these Scriptures,  according to Kathi….and only She is right….How many Scriptures do we have that Jehovah God is one and only true God….
Even by Jesus own words He said that His Father is greater then He is….John14:28…
it is so sad to me that Kathi used to believe like we do…. and now changed Her mind….She even come to see us here on Thanksgiving a couple of years ago…. Somebody got to Her….or some Spirit of darkness….who knows….Peace Irene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 24 2011,07:22)

Even by Jesus own words He said that His Father is greater then He is….John14:28…

Hi Irene,

What Kathi has done, sadly enough, is to imagine that Jesus has simultaneously had two different natures ever since he was made flesh.  This way she can claim that when Jesus said the Father is greater, it was the “human nature” of Jesus doing the talking.  And when Jesus says “I and the Father are one”, she claims that this was the “God nature” of Jesus doing the talking.  But then when Jesus says he lives because of the Father, we've now somehow switched back to the “human nature” of Jesus doing the talking.  

She has also said that in Revelation, when Jesus refers to Jehovah as “my God”, it is STILL the “human nature” of Jesus talking, even though Jesus is no longer a human being and has no “human nature” anymore.

But the most confusing part to me is that she thinks Jehovah consists of Jesus AND the Father in some “compound unity”.  And if that is the case, when the “human nature” of Jesus calls Jehovah “my God” in Revelation, it means that the “human nature” of Jesus is actually calling the “God nature” of Jesus his God.

All I can say is:  What a mess!

peace,
mike

[Pastry]

Mike! I know what you are saying…. But how can She use the Scripture in John 14:28….

Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

He said:” I go unto the Father, for my Father is greater then I. Its like He has to go to the Father, because His Father is greater then He is… At least that is the way I see it….
Yes, its a mess alright…. Then we have Ed and Kerwin that think John 1 is talking about Gods Holy Spirit. Another mess…..

Peace Irene

[Proclaimer]

2 Corinthians 11:3-4
3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

It is possible to preach another Jesus. The Jesus who is YHWH, is not the Jesus who is the son of YHWH.

[Ed J]

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 25 2011,11:47)

Mike!   Then we have Ed and Kerwin that think John 1 is talking about Gods Holy Spirit. Peace Irene

Hi Irene,

Are you forgetting about Gene and Paladin believing this as well?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,23:45)

Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 25 2011,11:47) Mike!   Then we have Ed and Kerwin that think John 1 is talking about Gods Holy Spirit. Peace Irene Hi Irene, Are you forgetting about Gene and Paladin believing this as well? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

what is the holy spirit of God ? according to all the scriptures that is ,

Pierre

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,16:48)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,23:45) Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 25 2011,11:47) Mike!   Then we have Ed and Kerwin that think John 1 is talking about Gods Holy Spirit. Peace Irene Hi Irene, Are you forgetting about Gene and Paladin believing this as well? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj what is the holy spirit of God ? according to all the scriptures that is , Pierre

Hi Pierre,

The HolySpirit is God's spirit that abides in all Christian believers.
See: John 14:23, Acts 5:3-4, Eph.4:4-6, 1John 3:24 & 1John 4:13.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 26 2011,00:03)

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,16:48) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,23:45) Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 25 2011,11:47) Mike!   Then we have Ed and Kerwin that think John 1 is talking about Gods Holy Spirit. Peace Irene Hi Irene, Are you forgetting about Gene and Paladin believing this as well? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj what is the holy spirit of God ? according to all the scriptures that is , Pierre Hi Pierre, The HolySpirit is God's spirit that abides in all Christian believers. See: John 14:23, Acts 5:3-4, Eph.4:4-6, 1John 3:24 & 1John 4:13. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

again you tell me what it does ,not what it is ?

and my question is what is the holy spirit of God

Pierre

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,17:17)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 26 2011,00:03) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,16:48) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 25 2011,23:45) Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 25 2011,11:47) Mike!   Then we have Ed and Kerwin that think John 1 is talking about Gods Holy Spirit. Peace Irene Hi Irene, Are you forgetting about Gene and Paladin believing this as well? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj what is the holy spirit of God ? according to all the scriptures that is , Pierre Hi Pierre, The HolySpirit is God's spirit that abides in all Christian believers. See: John 14:23, Acts 5:3-4, Eph.4:4-6, 1John 3:24 & 1John 4:13. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj again you tell me what it does ,not what it is ? and my question is what is the holy spirit of God Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Once again, YOU are rejecting the answer.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Lightenup]

Ok, so I read through Mike's, Irene's and t8's posts and suffice it to say…no one seems to understand:
1. How a compound unity has more than one person in it, hence one can be the father of the other. The 'other' does not need to be the 'father' of himself.

2. A compound unity is both plural AND singular depending on if one is emphasizing the unity or the persons within the unity.

3. A compound unity can speak and act as one and therefore Jehovah speaks with one voice and acts as one person. The church is meant to speak with one voice too.
Rom 15:6 so that with one mind and one voice you might glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah.

[Lightenup]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 24 2011,23:22)

2 Corinthians 11:3-4 3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. It is possible to preach another Jesus. The Jesus who is YHWH, is not the Jesus who is the son of YHWH.

Hmmm…Let's see, 2 Corinthians was written by Paul, right. So did he preach the unity of the Father and the Son?

2 Thess 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word.

I find it interesting that although this passage has two persons listed as the subject, a compound subject, the verbs are all written in the singular form and not plural form as would normally apply to compound subjects. This would show that Jesus and the Father act as one. Hence, a compound unity.

Quote

It is possible to preach another Jesus. The Jesus who is YHWH, is not the Jesus who is the son of YHWH.

So, to answer your question, t8, yes it is possible for you to preach another Jesus who isn't part of the compound unity called Jehovah, where each member within the unity is also called Jehovah, one as the Father and the other as the Son.

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