- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Mike,
The Father being the God of gods does not mean that these gods are his children, it means that the Father is the God…of everything! The Son is the Lord of everything. Jehovah is both of them…God and Lord.Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 22 2011,22:50) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 23 2011,21:37) Mike,
you said:Quote WHO exalted Jesus, Kathi? WHO GAVE him the name above every name? And WHO will we confess Jesus as? Lord? Or God? And to WHOSE glory will we do this? The Father exalts the Son who previously lowered HIMSELF. Since He lowered HIMSELF He had taken on an additional identity. We confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father. The two persons within the unity called Jehovah, can do these things. The Lord of lords that pre-existed, lowered Himself to become a man, the God of gods exalted His Son since the Son had lowered Himself and even as He is incarnated into flesh was He exalted. The whole being of the Son, according to both natures is now exalted as the Lord of lords and not just the divine nature which always was the Lord of lords.
Kathi
Kathican you prove that God is not Jehovah but that Christ is Jehovah or any of them are Jehovah ?
NO ;
can you prove that God is the God called Jehovah ? YES scriptures say so
can you prove that Christ is Jehovah ? NO ;no scriptures support that .
but you say that JEHOVAH means both of them ;so under the name of JEHOVAH there is God the father and Christ the son,
BUT CAN YOU PROVE THIS WITH SCRIPTURES ? NO
IT IS HAPPEN ONLY IN YOUR HEAD KATHI ,IT IS AN ILLUSION
IT IS NOT SO ,WAKE UP ,IF YOU CAN .
Pierre
Pierre,
The unity is called Jehovah and the individuals are called Jehovah. Context can help sort out who is being referred to…the unity or the Father or the Son.Like the church:
The unity of the body of Christ is called the church and the individual localized body of Christ is also called a church.There is ONE church (the unity at large)
There are also many churches (Revelations speaks of seven)There is ONE Jehovah (the compound unity of the Father and the Son)
There are two Jehovah's within the ONE Jehovah…like there are many churches within the ONE church of God.Here is proof that Christ is called Jehovah:
Isaiah 54:5
“For your husband is your Maker, Whose name is the LORD of hosts; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel, Who is called the God of all the earth.Six names for Jesus here:
Husband…He is the bridegroom after all.
Maker…All things came into being by Him and for Him.
LORD (Jehovah) of hosts…the Lord of lords has His own angels.
Redeemer…The Savior
Holy One of Israel…their Messiah
God of all the earth…There it is, God…Jesus is called God of all the earth.Jesus is our 'Husband' not the Father. The bridegroom is the Son, the Lord of lords.
Can you show me that the Father is the 'bridegroom' Pierre? If not, then the scripture applies to the Son as Jehovah.
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2011,21:54) Mike,
The Father being the God of gods does not mean that these gods are his children, it means that the Father is the God…of everything! The Son is the Lord of everything. Jehovah is both of them…God and Lord.Quote Mike,
The Father being the God of gods does not mean that these gods are his children, it means that the Father is the God…of everything!
Yes Kathi. Jehovah is the God of EVERYTHING, including the other gods in existence. Such as Jesus and Satan.That's all I'm trying to get you to see. Because it IS the truth of the matter.
Kathi
Quote Like the church:
The unity of the body of Christ is called the church and the individual localized body of Christ is also called a church.Church = congregation = many many,people this does not show unity unless you called their spirit ,heart,and mind a unity ?
Quote There are two Jehovah's within the ONE Jehovah…like there are many churches within the ONE church of God their could be churches in different places but it is only one congregation of truth ,God and Christ do not have two churches only many locations but one spirit (one scriptures) one gospel ,one God and one son of God ,one called Jehovah and they other Christ or THE WORD OF GOD and also SON OF GOD ,
but they all share the same spirit of God not their own ,Pierre
Jehovah is the God of everything and Jehovah is both the Father and the Son, Mike. Jehovah is the God of the 'man from heaven' not the pre-existent Son but the 'man from heaven' that the pre-existent Son was incarnated with. Jehovah is both the Father and the pre-existent Son. In some context Jehovah is the Father and in other contexts Jehovah is the son and in other contexts, Jehovah is the unity of both.
Like I explained it to Pierre,
The unity is called Jehovah and the individuals are called Jehovah. Context can help sort out who is being referred to…the unity or the Father or the Son.
Like the church:
The unity of the body of Christ is called the church and the individual localized body of Christ is also called a church.There is ONE church (the unity at large)
There are also many churches (Revelations speaks of seven)There is ONE Jehovah (the compound unity of the Father and the Son)
There are two Jehovah's within the ONE Jehovah…like there are many churches within the ONE church of God.Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2011,22:06) Jesus is our 'Husband' not the Father. The bridegroom is the Son, the Lord of lords. Can you show me that the Father is the 'bridegroom' Pierre? If not, then the scripture applies to the Son as Jehovah.
Kathi,The word is “ba'al”, which basically means “lord” or “master”. It is often translated as “husband”, since the husbands were the masters of their wives, and the wives called them “my lord”, etc.
But look at the same word in 1 Chronicles 4:22, where it is translated as “ruled in Moab”, not “the husbands of Moab”.
And look at Isaiah 23:16, where the same word is translated as “other lords have RULED OVER us”, and not “other lords have MARRIED us” or “have been our HUSBANDS”.
The LXX says that the Lord is the One making you………. It says nothing about any “husband”.
The Hebrew can just as faithfully be translated as, “Your Maker WHO RULES OVER YOU, Jehovah of Hosts is His name, is your Redeemer……………..”
Kathi, Jehovah is the Most High God. (Gen 14:22) And Jesus is the SON OF the Most High God. (Mark 5:7)
Do you disagree with these SCRIPTURAL FACTS?
Kathi
Isa 62:5 As a young man marries a maiden,
so will your sons marry you;
as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride,
so will your God rejoice over you.Quote Can you show me that the Father is the 'bridegroom' Pierre? If not, then the scripture applies to the Son as Jehovah. Quote Jesus is our 'Husband' not the Father. this is only true if the truth is found in you (us) and if you are part of the 144k that will go to heaven if not you better come back to the earth before you fall down from your hopes ,to the ground.
remember the pharisees also had different views than Christ and the Sadducee they did not even believe in the resurrection,and the doctors of the law that do not even know the law that they suppose to have understood,
your faith is totally useless because you believe a lie,
you have hundred of scriptures that show God and the son to be two beings and the unity they share will be shared by all living being at the end when Christ as finish his work to destroy wickedness
Pierre
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 22 2011,22:27) Jehovah is the God of everything and Jehovah is both the Father and the Son, Mike.
Sorry Kathi. You are correct that Jehovah is the God of EVERYTHING………………..including Jesus. That is why Jesus, even AFTER being exalted to the highest position there is (NEXT TO God Himself), STILL calls Jehovah “my God”.Quote Jehovah is the God of the 'man from heaven' not the pre-existent Son but the 'man from heaven' that the pre-existent Son was incarnated with.
How many Jesuses do you think there are, Kathi? Because JESUS calls Jehovah “my God”. And you can't come close to scripturally proving your asinine notion that it is only the “man nature” of Jesus who calls Jehovah “my God”, while the “God nature” of Jesus is part OF the One who is being called “my God” BY the “man nature” of Jesus.What a tangled mess you've invented!
But I'm happy you are no longer denying that Jesus and Satan are both gods that the God OF gods is the God OF.
mike
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 22 2011,23:26) Kathi Quote Like the church:
The unity of the body of Christ is called the church and the individual localized body of Christ is also called a church.Church = congregation = many many,people this does not show unity unless you called their spirit ,heart,and mind a unity ?
Quote There are two Jehovah's within the ONE Jehovah…like there are many churches within the ONE church of God their could be churches in different places but it is only one congregation of truth ,God and Christ do not have two churches only many locations but one spirit (one scriptures) one gospel ,one God and one son of God ,one called Jehovah and they other Christ or THE WORD OF GOD and also SON OF GOD ,
but they all share the same spirit of God not their own ,Pierre
Pierre,Quote their could be churches in different places but it is only one congregation of truth And there could be more than one Jehovah in different places but they represent one truth.
The church is united in many ways, just like the Father and the Son. They are one as the Father and the Son are one.
The church makes up the one body of Christ and the Father and the Son make up the Godhead of the church. Two unities…the church and the Godhead (Jehovah).
Kathi
Mike,
you said:Quote But I'm happy you are no longer denying that Jesus and Satan are both gods that the God OF gods is the God OF Where have I ever agreed to this. I totally deny this.
The Father is the God of the 'man' from heaven, not the pre-existent Son who was incarnated with the 'man' from heaven.
Kathi
Quote How many Jesuses do you think there are, Kathi? Because JESUS calls Jehovah “my God”. And you can't come close to scripturally proving your asinine notion that it is only the “man nature” of Jesus who calls Jehovah “my God”, while the “God nature” of Jesus is part OF the One who is being called “my God” BY the “man nature” of Jesus. There is one Jesus and He has two natures which each perform two different roles. As the role of the 'man from heaven,' He calls the Father 'God' but as the pre-existent Son, He calls the Father…'Father.' He still is both, the one who pre-existed AND the 'man from heaven' and still refers to the Father as 'God' in that role of being the 'man from heaven' who is now ruling as the 'man' from heaven, now back in heaven.
Kathi
Quote The church is united in many ways, just like the Father and the Son. They are one as the Father and the Son are one. like in what unity many ?
their is no “man of heaven” it is a allegory
Quote And there could be more than one Jehovah in different places but they represent one truth.
this is news to me any scripture?Pierre
Pierre,
If the first Adam is not allegorically earthy, the second Adam is not allegorically the man from heaven. Adam is literally 'earthy' and the second Adam is literally the 'man from heaven.'Being supernaturally conceived by the Holy Ghost would make one a 'man from heaven.'
I said:
“And there could be more than one Jehovah in different places but they represent one truth.”
you said:Quote this is news to me any scripture?
Here is your scripture:
Gen 19:24Then Jehovah rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven,Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 23 2011,13:59) Mike,
If God called satan the god of anything it is simply because satan exalted himself and demands worship. God agrees that satan exalted himself and is demanding worship and therefore calls him a god. The gods of Egypt are referred to as their gods not 'His' gods. He did not make anyone gods, the gods made themselves gods. End of fairy tale.Kathi
Satan is the theos of this world because he is the Father (Originator) of it. He is also the father of murderers etc.The one true God is the Father of all, even of his son.
It is this truth that many trip over. The reason?
Because it is the foundation of the Church and Satan is an enemy of the Church and the Father of lies.Peter said, “you are the Christ, the son of the living God”.
Jesus said, “upon this rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail”.See that. The gates of hell will not prevail as to who Jesus is.
He is the son of the living God. Not God as others say.Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 23 2011,23:06) Pierre,
If the first Adam is not allegorically earthy, the second Adam is not allegorically the man from heaven. Adam is literally 'earthy' and the second Adam is literally the 'man from heaven.'Being supernaturally conceived by the Holy Ghost would make one a 'man from heaven.'
I said:
“And there could be more than one Jehovah in different places but they represent one truth.”
you said:Quote this is news to me any scripture?
Here is your scripture:
Gen 19:24Then Jehovah rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven,Kathi
KathiQuote If the first Adam is not allegorically earthy, the second Adam is not allegorically the man from heaven. Adam is literally 'earthy' and the second Adam is literally the 'man from heaven.' they are both an allegory read what Paul said in 1cor 15;50—-
Quote Being supernaturally conceived by the Holy Ghost would make one a 'man from heaven.' is it ? you do not mind to twist things is it ?you have not understand scriptures at all ,you have no clue why Christ came from heaven ,but if he is an man in heaven and a man on hearth then he is not God s son ,
God is spirit any one that is with God is in the spirit ,flesh counts for nothing ,
Quote Gen 19:24Then Jehovah rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven, God was not on earth to make the brimstone fall on those two city's and surroundings ,God s dwellings are in heaven the most high heaven ,not the one we as human can see ,
Pierre
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 23 2011,16:06) I said:
“And there could be more than one Jehovah in different places but they represent one truth.”
And scripture says that YHWH is one, not triune or biune.Hear, O Israel: The Y@hovah elohiym is one Y@hovah.
Not: The Y@hovah elohiym is a triune Y@hovah.t8 said this:
Quote Satan is the theos of this world because he is the Father (Originator) of it. He is also the father of murderers etc. That is preposterous to say that satan is the originator/Father of this world. Are you in the business of exalting satan to creator now? Jehovah is not satan, t8. Jehovah created the world.
The scripture says that Jehovah is one/echad. Echad can most certainly mean a unity of more than one. There is another Hebrew word, I think it is yachid, that means only one in number and that word is not used for Jehovah. I wonder why? Because Jehovah is a unity of more than one, that is why. He is God of gods AND Lord of lords, not just God of gods, t8.
Pierre,
You are twisting the scriptures and not just accepting them for what they say. We are not to lean on our own understanding. You take what is literal and make it allegorical. You can see in Gen 18 that Jehovah IS on earth and face to face with Abraham and you say that He is not on earth. Why? Because you are not understanding that the unity Jehovah is made up of two called Jehovah. No man has seen the Father or heard His voice so the Jehovah talking to Abraham face to face was ANOTHER Jehovah, the Son.Kathi
t8 said,
Quote The one true God is the Father of all, even of his son. The Father is the God of the 'man from heaven' not the pre-existent Son from heaven that was incarnate with the 'man' from heaven.
The Father is the Father of the pre-existent Son, not the God of the pre-existent Son. He is only 'God' to the 'man from heaven' part of Jesus, not the pre-existent part of Jesus.
Kathi! If Almighty God is the Head of Jesus then how can they be the same Jehovah God? There are to many Scriptures that proof otherwise…
1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.
Even by Jesus own words He said that His Father is greater then He is….
Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
If Almighty God is greater and above all, how can Jesus be the same Jehovah God.,..
But the best Scripture still is
Psa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.
Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.
Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:
1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
There is no other Jehovah God but ONE….
What reason do you have not to believe these Scriptures, Kathi?
Peace Irene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
