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I asked a church minister the question Where are Adam and Eve at this present time
He thought that they may be in Heaven
Any thoughts?My thoughts are the same as Stuart's on this one: they are in the ground, dead, not alive, decomposed, nowhere.
(I suppose though Stuart would also say they don't exist and never did)
David,
I understand you are adamant about staying on topic and posting to the correct thread ect., ect., so on and so forth. Alas due to my thoughts I am not permitted to post in the thread. Just so you know, at times I do not do well with staying on topic. Don't want you walking into something that may frustrate you later on in conversation.
Just curious to your thoughts on this. In the thread psychics your knowledge of magic is not only surprising but in depth, how do you perceive magic in the bible?
Quote (princess @ Nov. 23 2012,23:11) David, I understand you are adamant about staying on topic and posting to the correct thread ect., ect., so on and so forth. Alas due to my thoughts I am not permitted to post in the thread. Just so you know, at times I do not do well with staying on topic. Don't want you walking into something that may frustrate you later on in conversation.
Just curious to your thoughts on this. In the thread psychics your knowledge of magic is not only surprising but in depth, how do you perceive magic in the bible?
Princess, I mostly am frustrated when its the same people going off topic, or you have to repeatedly ask them to stay on topic. I go off topic all the time. Most do. But when asked and its pointed out, I feel that is different. I also find I don't care nearly as much when it's not a thread I didn't create. For example, this thread is about ADam and eve and gruncher wants to discuss that topic. He would be much more upset than me to take is thread off topic. Perhaps, you should start a thread on magic. No such read exists.Thank you David for bring it to my attention regarding Guncher, my apologies Guncher no offense intended.
Guncher, if I would have asked my pastor such a question and was given this answer, I too would question my faith. Did you expect something more out of this pastor?
Moving on, does it really matter where they are at? What importance does this have on your life right now? Will it change your beliefs?
I am not saying not to question matters that is a given, however placing them in the right perspective is always a good start.I don't see how magic is off-topic. Cain's wife, Adam and Eve's daughter-in-law, must have appeared by magic.
Stuart
Stuart. You are pretty good at discussing evolution or cosmology, but, by creating arguments such as the one you just presented, it just make's it easy for people to dismiss your other beliefs.
The bible says that Adam had “sons and daughters.” Cain could have married his sister, or a neice or perhaps a grand daughter. I don't know why people always present this as some sort of argument.
Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,12:40) Stuart. You are pretty good at discussing evolution or cosmology, but, by creating arguments such as the one you just presented, it just make's it easy for people to dismiss your other beliefs. The bible says that Adam had “sons and daughters.” Cain could have married his sister, or a neice or perhaps a grand daughter. I don't know why people always present this as some sort of argument.
It wasn't meant to be an argument. I was meant to be mockery of fatuous fantasy drivel.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 24 2012,15:08) Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,12:40) Stuart. You are pretty good at discussing evolution or cosmology, but, by creating arguments such as the one you just presented, it just make's it easy for people to dismiss your other beliefs. The bible says that Adam had “sons and daughters.” Cain could have married his sister, or a neice or perhaps a grand daughter. I don't know why people always present this as some sort of argument.
It wasn't meant to be an argument. I was meant to be mockery of fatuous fantasy drivel.Stuart
Yes, but my point was that if you mock something without knowing what you are talking about, you look silly, and aren't taken seriously.Princess
Regarding my question about Adam
My question was asked during a group conversation regarding Adam and what happens when people die. Two of our group recently died
There are mixed beliefs about life after death. The default position is that immediately at death a believer goes to Heaven and non believers are in torment
I was trying to get the minister to say if he believed that Adam was in torment
The question is very important, because we should be able to tell people what life after death means and what is their destination
The two who died are said by the pastor to be now in heaven
But from my study of scripture it says that the dead are in the earth, And stay there until Ressurection day
For pastors to say that an unbeliever goes straight to eternal torment goes against Gods nature they should be tried and judged first
There will come a day of judgement for believer and unbeliever
Princess if our eternal destiny was certain, that assurance would impact our livesQuote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,16:44) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 24 2012,15:08) Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,12:40) Stuart. You are pretty good at discussing evolution or cosmology, but, by creating arguments such as the one you just presented, it just make's it easy for people to dismiss your other beliefs. The bible says that Adam had “sons and daughters.” Cain could have married his sister, or a neice or perhaps a grand daughter. I don't know why people always present this as some sort of argument.
It wasn't meant to be an argument. I was meant to be mockery of fatuous fantasy drivel.Stuart
Yes, but my point was that if you mock something without knowing what you are talking about, you look silly, and aren't taken seriously.
I am mocking what some people believe. You are mocking what they believe too by the sounds of it.As for looking silly, it's not my book of devious snakes and chatty donkeys that we are discussing here, is it.
Tell me again what class of animal a bat is, according to the Judeo-christian book of ignorance.
Stuart
Quote (Guncher @ Nov. 24 2012,19:17) Princess
Regarding my question about Adam
My question was asked during a group conversation regarding Adam and what happens when people die. Two of our group recently died
There are mixed beliefs about life after death. The default position is that immediately at death a believer goes to Heaven and non believers are in torment
I was trying to get the minister to say if he believed that Adam was in torment
The question is very important, because we should be able to tell people what life after death means and what is their destination
The two who died are said by the pastor to be now in heaven
But from my study of scripture it says that the dead are in the earth, And stay there until Ressurection day
For pastors to say that an unbeliever goes straight to eternal torment goes against Gods nature they should be tried and judged first
There will come a day of judgement for believer and unbeliever
Princess if our eternal destiny was certain, that assurance would impact our lives
Yes, apparently we all lie in some kind of suspended animation until the Judeo-christian digs us up for another go at us.As Christopher Hitchens puts it, at least you can escape North Korea by dying. With Judeo-christianity the torture carries on and on no matter what. And that includes the joke “promise” of a cheque they call eternal life, one drawn on a bank they can't show exists – or else some kind of petty-minded judgment by a hypocritical, parochial, small-minded bitter deity that has no moral authority to do any judging of anyone, if the Jewish bible has any validity.
What is that marvelous expression about drinking Kool-Aid that Americans use?
Stuart
Quote (Guncher @ Nov. 24 2012,19:17) Princess
Regarding my question about Adam
My question was asked during a group conversation regarding Adam and what happens when people die. Two of our group recently died
There are mixed beliefs about life after death. The default position is that immediately at death a believer goes to Heaven and non believers are in torment
I was trying to get the minister to say if he believed that Adam was in torment
The question is very important, because we should be able to tell people what life after death means and what is their destination
The two who died are said by the pastor to be now in heaven
But from my study of scripture it says that the dead are in the earth, And stay there until Ressurection day
For pastors to say that an unbeliever goes straight to eternal torment goes against Gods nature they should be tried and judged first
There will come a day of judgement for believer and unbeliever
Princess if our eternal destiny was certain, that assurance would impact our lives
I not quite sure Guncher, but I believe there is different beliefs on such, I studied it a bit and found a passage where one is judge then sent back to wait and once the second coming arrives then their judgement will be carried out.
Then there are ones that say it is instant judgement. But I believe that ones that believe in such say when jesus was resurrected and went to hell that he took the former believers to heaven with him. Hence the fight for moses.
And now the wait is on again.My sincere condolences to the families of these ones that have past. Most likely this is the reason for such different teachings it is more for the ones that are left behind that greive. Especially with children, hard to tell a child that someone they loved is in hell burning.
Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,12:40) Stuart. You are pretty good at discussing evolution or cosmology, but, by creating arguments such as the one you just presented, it just make's it easy for people to dismiss your other beliefs. The bible says that Adam had “sons and daughters.” Cain could have married his sister, or a neice or perhaps a grand daughter. I don't know why people always present this as some sort of argument.
Where does one start………….People present it because you either condone or condemn sleeping with your siblings. Especially when you are a practicing christian.
The story of Lot doesn't help much either.Quote (princess @ Nov. 24 2012,23:02) Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,12:40) Stuart. You are pretty good at discussing evolution or cosmology, but, by creating arguments such as the one you just presented, it just make's it easy for people to dismiss your other beliefs. The bible says that Adam had “sons and daughters.” Cain could have married his sister, or a neice or perhaps a grand daughter. I don't know why people always present this as some sort of argument.
Where does one start………….People present it because you either condone or condemn sleeping with your siblings. Especially when you are a practicing christian.
The story of Lot doesn't help much either.
But Cain of course was not a Christian. There was no law. And given the scenario, the situation was obviously quite a bit different than today.The story of lot isn't connected to what I WAS SAYING to stooy.
People often present the argument: “how could Cain possibly have a wife since there was just him and Abel and Seth.?”Except, the bible in that account says eve had “sons and daughters”. And, there aren't time references given.
I realize that Stuart was mocking that bible account. I was just pointing out that the doing so without an understanding of what the account actually says just makes the person look like they don't know of what they speak.
Quote (david @ Nov. 25 2012,01:43) Quote (princess @ Nov. 24 2012,23:02) Quote (david @ Nov. 24 2012,12:40) Stuart. You are pretty good at discussing evolution or cosmology, but, by creating arguments such as the one you just presented, it just make's it easy for people to dismiss your other beliefs. The bible says that Adam had “sons and daughters.” Cain could have married his sister, or a neice or perhaps a grand daughter. I don't know why people always present this as some sort of argument.
Where does one start………….People present it because you either condone or condemn sleeping with your siblings. Especially when you are a practicing christian.
The story of Lot doesn't help much either.
But Cain of course was not a Christian. There was no law. And given the scenario, the situation was obviously quite a bit different than today.The story of lot isn't connected to what I WAS SAYING to stooy.
People often present the argument: “how could Cain possibly have a wife since there was just him and Abel and Seth.?”Except, the bible in that account says eve had “sons and daughters”. And, there aren't time references given.
I realize that Stuart was mocking that bible account. I was just pointing out that the doing so without an understanding of what the account actually says just makes the person look like they don't know of what they speak.
I do know that Joseph Smith added lines to Genesis, and that there is an absurd “pre-adamite” idea that is contradicted in Genesis, Corinthians and Acts, but I think you will find that if you actually read Genesis 4, then 5:4, it is clear that you have to make up your own story about where Cain's wife came from. Given all the other begetting going on, it's clear she appears by magic.Genesis 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters
So, that's Cain, Abel, Seth born to Adam and Eve, then others in the remaining years. So it's not a sister he marries. It might just be asserted that it is obvious that there were women around to become wives, but the christian part of the canon has the magic of a woman becoming pregnant without the help of a human male. So I'd say all bets are off with this tedious collective book of genealogies and fantasy histories.
Of course we are actually dealing with two things:
1. Ancient Jewish mythology doesn't celebrate the birth of girls.
2. There never was a time of fewer than about 1000 humans.Stuart
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