A false view of matthew 4:4?

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  • #361258
    terraricca
    Participant

    W

    Quote
    Jesus is The Word. He has been The Word since his and our God created him as the first of His works.

    IN THIS QUOTE “YOU SAY THE WORD “WAS CREATED ” THIS IS TRUE

    Quote
    I DISAGREE: THE WORD WAS NOT CREATED,BUT HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF GOD'S EXISTENCE.(

    THIS IS YOUR NEXT QUOTE ;AND NOW YOU DENY THAT THE “WORD ” WAS CREATED

    ARE KNOWING WHAT YOU THINK AND BELIEVE ??? BECAUSE IT SHOWS YOU DO NOT

    #361271
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 06 2013,07:33)
    W

    Quote
    Jesus is The Word.  He has been The Word since his and our God created him as the first of His works.

    IN THIS QUOTE “YOU SAY THE WORD “WAS CREATED ” THIS IS TRUE

    Quote
    I DISAGREE: THE WORD WAS NOT CREATED,BUT HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF GOD'S EXISTENCE.(

    THIS IS YOUR NEXT QUOTE ;AND NOW YOU DENY THAT THE “WORD ” WAS CREATED

    ARE KNOWING WHAT YOU THINK AND BELIEVE ??? BECAUSE IT SHOWS YOU DO NOT


    T.

    The Word was not created;but jesus the man was created.

    Not good to quote bits only.

    wakeup.

    #361284
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 06 2013,05:15)

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 06 2013,07:33)
    W

    Quote
    Jesus is The Word.  He has been The Word since his and our God created him as the first of His works.

    IN THIS QUOTE “YOU SAY THE WORD “WAS CREATED ” THIS IS TRUE

    Quote
    I DISAGREE: THE WORD WAS NOT CREATED,BUT HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF GOD'S EXISTENCE.(

    THIS IS YOUR NEXT QUOTE ;AND NOW YOU DENY THAT THE “WORD ” WAS CREATED

    ARE KNOWING WHAT YOU THINK AND BELIEVE ??? BECAUSE IT SHOWS YOU DO NOT


    T.

    The Word was not created;but jesus the man was created.

    Not good to quote bits only.

    wakeup.


    w

    do not insult my intelligence

    #361316
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 06 2013,11:34)

    Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 06 2013,05:15)

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 06 2013,07:33)
    W

    Quote
    Jesus is The Word.  He has been The Word since his and our God created him as the first of His works.

    IN THIS QUOTE “YOU SAY THE WORD “WAS CREATED ” THIS IS TRUE

    Quote
    I DISAGREE: THE WORD WAS NOT CREATED,BUT HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF GOD'S EXISTENCE.(

    THIS IS YOUR NEXT QUOTE ;AND NOW YOU DENY THAT THE “WORD ” WAS CREATED

    ARE KNOWING WHAT YOU THINK AND BELIEVE ??? BECAUSE IT SHOWS YOU DO NOT


    T.

    The Word was not created;but jesus the man was created.

    Not good to quote bits only.

    wakeup.


    w

    do not insult my intelligence


    T.

    Show me the whole post where I have said that THE WORD
    WAS CREATED.

    wakeup.

    #361342
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 06 2013,11:16)

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 06 2013,11:34)

    Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 06 2013,05:15)

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 06 2013,07:33)
    W

    Quote
    Jesus is The Word.  He has been The Word since his and our God created him as the first of His works.

    IN THIS QUOTE “YOU SAY THE WORD “WAS CREATED ” THIS IS TRUE

    Quote
    I DISAGREE: THE WORD WAS NOT CREATED,BUT HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF GOD'S EXISTENCE.(

    THIS IS YOUR NEXT QUOTE ;AND NOW YOU DENY THAT THE “WORD ” WAS CREATED

    ARE KNOWING WHAT YOU THINK AND BELIEVE ??? BECAUSE IT SHOWS YOU DO NOT


    T.

    The Word was not created;but jesus the man was created.

    Not good to quote bits only.

    wakeup.


    w

    do not insult my intelligence


    T.

    Show me the whole post where I have said that THE WORD
    WAS CREATED.

    wakeup.


    w

    Quote
    Show me the whole post where I have said that THE WORD
    WAS CREATED.

    look at it ,it is all there :D :D :D

    #361357
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Okay Wakeup,

    We are making some good headway now.  It seems you agree on nine of the ten points I listed, so let's discuss the one with which you disagree:

    Quote (mikeboll @ 64)
    Fact #1:  Jesus is called “god” in other scriptures.


    Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 05 2013,01:48)
    NEVER; ONLY THE TRINIES HAVE.


    Hebrews 1:8
    But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.”

    Who exactly is the “Son” that is being called “O God” in this verse?

    Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 05 2013,01:48)
    WE CAN NOT FIT IN ANOTHER GOD,FOR THIS WOULD CONTRADICT SCRIPTURE.


    Psalm 82:6 King James Version
    I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

    That was Jehovah calling other ones “gods”, right?

    So both of your reasons for disagreeing with my “FACT #1” have been SCRIPTURALLY refuted. Will you accept those scriptures and adjust your understanding accordingly?

    #361358
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2013,14:33)
    W

    Quote
    Jesus is The Word.  He has been The Word since his and our God created him as the first of His works.

    IN THIS QUOTE “YOU SAY THE WORD “WAS CREATED ” THIS IS TRUE


    Pierre,

    Those were my words in that quote box…….. not Wakeup's.

    #361363
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 07 2013,05:30)

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2013,14:33)
    W

    Quote
    Jesus is The Word.  He has been The Word since his and our God created him as the first of His works.

    IN THIS QUOTE “YOU SAY THE WORD “WAS CREATED ” THIS IS TRUE


    Pierre,

    Those were my words in that quote box…….. not Wakeup's.


    oh, it was mix did not see that so yes I need to apologies to WAKEUP ;WHAT I DO RIGHT NOW AND HERE ;

    PLEASE WAKEUP DO ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES FOR THE ABOVE MISTAKE ;

    #361365
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Yeah, I don't know why Wakeup can't just use quote boxes like a normal person.   :;):

    His posts are often hard to follow because it's hard to see who said what.

    #361380
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 07 2013,10:29)
    Okay Wakeup,

    We are making some good headway now.  It seems you agree on nine of the ten points I listed, so let's discuss the one with which you disagree:

    Quote (mikeboll @ 64)
    Fact #1:  Jesus is called “god” in other scriptures.


    Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 05 2013,01:48)
    NEVER; ONLY THE TRINIES HAVE.


    Hebrews 1:8
    But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.”

    Who exactly is the “Son” that is being called “O God” in this verse?

    Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 05 2013,01:48)
    WE CAN NOT FIT IN ANOTHER GOD,FOR THIS WOULD CONTRADICT SCRIPTURE.


    Psalm 82:6 King James Version
    I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

    That was Jehovah calling other ones “gods”, right?

    So both of your reasons for disagreeing with my “FACT #1” have been SCRIPTURALLY refuted.  Will you accept those scriptures and adjust your understanding accordingly?


    Mike B.

    Quote
    Hebrews 1:8
    But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.”

    JESUS WAS REWARDED BY HIS FATHER,AND HE WAS PROMOTED, GIVEN A POSITION EGUAL TO GOD; **BY GOD HIS FATHER**. ALL AUTHORITY IS *GIVEN* TO HIM.
    *FOR A THOUSAND YEARS*;THEN HE WILL HAND OVER HIS AUTHORITY BACK TO HIS FATHER. THEN GOD WILL BE ALL IN ALL;AND HIS WORD BACK UNDER GOD'S AUTHORITY.

    Quote

    Who exactly is the “Son” that is being called “O God” in this verse?

    .

    THE SON IS JESUS; WHO WAS THE WORD IN THE BEGINNING.(SEE ABOVE).

    Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 05 2013,01:48)
    WE CAN NOT FIT IN ANOTHER GOD,FOR THIS WOULD CONTRADICT SCRIPTURE.[/quote].

    AGREE; THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD,THE FATHER:
    THE FATHER *GAVE* HIS SON A NEW TITLE AND AUTHORITY *AS* HIS REWARD. *HE IS THE *IMAGE* OF GOD*.
    SEE JESUS/SEE GOD.BUT HE CAN NEVER BE THE FATHER.
    FOR THERE IS ONLY ONE FATHER.

    Quote

    Psalm 82:6 King James Version
    I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

    WE ARE GODS CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD.
    BUT WE ARE NOT THE CREATOR.(THE FATHER).
    THERE ARE MANY GODS CREATED BY MEN;BUT THEY ARE
    FALSE GODS.THEY CAN DO NOTHING;THEY ARE DEAD GODS,MADE OF WOOD AND STONE.

    Quote

    That was Jehovah calling other ones “gods”, right?

    .

    I DISAGREE: JEHOVAH CALLS THEM GODS;
    BUT MENS GODS. MENS IMAGINARY GODS.

    Quote

    So both of your reasons for disagreeing with my “FACT #1” have been SCRIPTURALLY refuted. Will you accept those scriptures and adjust your understanding accordingly?
    terraricca Posted

    NO, I DONT ADJUST ANYTHING;UNTILL PROVEN WRONG.
    AND YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN ME WRONG.
    ITS A MATTER OF SEEING THINGS DEEPER
    THAN THE SURFACE.

    wakeup.

    #361396
    terraricca
    Participant

    W

    Quote
    I DONT ADJUST ANYTHING;UNTILL PROVEN WRONG.
    AND YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN ME WRONG.
    ITS A MATTER OF SEEING THINGS DEEPER
    THAN THE SURFACE.

    :D :laugh: :D :laugh: :laugh: :D

    YOU WOULD NOT CHANGE A THING TO YOUR UNDERSTANDING ,YOU WOULD RATHER CHANGE THE BIBLE THAN CHANGING YOU,

    DO NOT SAY THIS LIKE THAT, THAT IS TO FUNNY  :D :laugh:

    #361418
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 07 2013,15:20)
    W

    Quote
    I DONT ADJUST ANYTHING;UNTILL PROVEN WRONG.
    AND YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN ME WRONG.
    ITS A MATTER OF SEEING THINGS DEEPER
    THAN THE SURFACE.

    :D :laugh: :D :laugh: :laugh: :D

    YOU WOULD NOT CHANGE A THING TO YOUR UNDERSTANDING ,YOU WOULD RATHER CHANGE THE BIBLE THAN CHANGING YOU,

    DO NOT SAY THIS LIKE THAT, THAT IS TO FUNNY  :D :laugh:


    T.

    As long as you can not come up with scriptures to proof me wrong. I am right and you are wrong.

    wakeup.

    #361432
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 07 2013,15:57)

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 07 2013,15:20)
    W

    Quote
    I DONT ADJUST ANYTHING;UNTILL PROVEN WRONG.
    AND YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN ME WRONG.
    ITS A MATTER OF SEEING THINGS DEEPER
    THAN THE SURFACE.

    :D :laugh: :D :laugh: :laugh: :D

    YOU WOULD NOT CHANGE A THING TO YOUR UNDERSTANDING ,YOU WOULD RATHER CHANGE THE BIBLE THAN CHANGING YOU,

    DO NOT SAY THIS LIKE THAT, THAT IS TO FUNNY  :D :laugh:


    T.

    As long as you can not come up with scriptures to proof me wrong. I am right and you are wrong.

    wakeup.


    w

    :D :laugh: :D :D :laugh:

    NO ONE CAN PROVE YOU WRONG ;YOU DENY OF BEING TRUE ANYTHING WHO DOES NOT FIT YOUR UNDERSTANDING ,EVEN THE SCRIPTURES ,

    :D :D :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :D

    LET ALL GO TO YOUR QUOTES IN ANY TOPIC ,ALL CAN SEE THIS . :D :D

    #361460
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Wakeup,

    Thanks for using quote boxes.  It made the post much easier to follow.

    I will address the many flaws in what you wrote soon.  Short of time right now.

    #361492
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 07 2013,15:20)
    W

    Quote
    I DONT ADJUST ANYTHING;UNTILL PROVEN WRONG.
    AND YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN ME WRONG.
    ITS A MATTER OF SEEING THINGS DEEPER
    THAN THE SURFACE.

    :D :laugh: :D :laugh: :laugh: :D

    YOU WOULD NOT CHANGE A THING TO YOUR UNDERSTANDING ,YOU WOULD RATHER CHANGE THE BIBLE THAN CHANGING YOU,

    DO NOT SAY THIS LIKE THAT, THAT IS TO FUNNY  :D :laugh:


    T.

    It is not I that change bibles;but you.
    I stick to the one true bible,the flesh of Christ.
    You have been shopping all over for the flesh of Christ
    and can not find.

    All you have to do is show some evidence
    that the kjv is contradictory.
    But how can you ever;for you have zero
    knowledge.

    wakeup.

    #361581
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Hi Wakeup,

    I was going to go through your last post, point by point, and address them. But let's just get to the bottom line.

    You are dancing all around Jesus being called “O God” in Hebrews 1:8. You are “justifying” things in your own mind to avoid the truth. And you are “justifying” the other gods mentioned, by calling them “men's gods” and “false gods” – although the Hebrew words just say “gods”, and don't have any of these “qualifying factors” that you are adding in on your own.

    But this is the very bottom line of it: Was Jesus ever called by the title “god” in any scripture? ABSOLUTELY

    So no matter how you “justify” it in your own mind, by saying it means he was “equal to God” or whatever, the fact will always remain that Jesus IS called “god” in at least 5 scriptures.

    And if he IS called “god” in even ONE scripture besides John 1:1, there is no reason whatsoever to think he COULDN'T BE the “god” who was with the Father in the beginning, is there?

    Therefore, if the Word is in fact Jesus, and if Jesus is in fact called “god” in scripture, it comes down to one of two choices:

    1. Something that USED TO BE God Almighty Himself became a different being who was no longer God Almighty Himself. (That one is totally absurd.)

    2. Jesus is a god who was with the Most High God in the beginning. (That one not only makes perfect sense, but is PROVEN by many – and I mean many – other scriptures.)

    At any rate, you can't possibly refute the fact that Jesus is called a god in scripture. And the only reason you refuse to believe that he is the god who was with God in the beginning is because of your love for that flawed KJV translation of John 1:1.

    #361629
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 10 2013,03:59)
    Hi Wakeup,

    I was going to go through your last post, point by point, and address them.  But let's just get to the bottom line.

    You are dancing all around Jesus being called “O God” in Hebrews 1:8.  You are “justifying” things in your own mind to avoid the truth.  And you are “justifying” the other gods mentioned, by calling them “men's gods” and “false gods” – although the Hebrew words just say “gods”, and don't have any of these “qualifying factors” that you are adding in on your own.

    But this is the very bottom line of it:  Was Jesus ever called by the title “god” in any scripture?  ABSOLUTELY

    So no matter how you “justify” it in your own mind, by saying it means he was “equal to God” or whatever, the fact will always remain that Jesus IS called “god” in at least 5 scriptures.

    And if he IS called “god” in even ONE scripture besides John 1:1, there is no reason whatsoever to think he COULDN'T BE the “god” who was with the Father in the beginning, is there?

    Therefore, if the Word is in fact Jesus, and if Jesus is in fact called “god” in scripture, it comes down to one of two choices:

    1.  Something that USED TO BE God Almighty Himself became a different being who was no longer God Almighty Himself.  (That one is totally absurd.)

    2.  Jesus is a god who was with the Most High God in the beginning.  (That one not only makes perfect sense, but is PROVEN by many – and I mean many – other scriptures.)

    At any rate, you can't possibly refute the fact that Jesus is called a god in scripture.  And the only reason you refuse to believe that he is the god who was with God in the beginning is because of your love for that flawed KJV translation of John 1:1.


    Mike B.

    Where is skill in decering scriptures?

    Jesus was never called God when he was in the flesh,
    nor in the beginning. But called the WORD,before he was made flesh.
    But his Father gave him the title *God*,as a reward,
    because now, He has all the power of his Father in his possession. For all authority is given to him,by his Father.
    After His resurrection.

    Angels and men are to worship him.No one can come to God but by him,alone.
    Despite all this: does it make Him the Father?
    Do we have two Gods now?
    Not so: **Is there a god beside me? yea; there is no God**.
    For the same Word is also part of God.
    His speach.
    Jesus will give back his authority to his Father,after His job is done. God all in all. Jesus included.

    Do you really believe that those other god's are truly *God's*?
    or just SO CALLED gods? Seen as gods. Accepted by men as gods? The president is a god to the nation,but not to be worshipped as God the Father.

    A deep subject like this one can not be explained in a few words.

    wakeup.

    #361636
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 08 2013,15:32)

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 07 2013,15:20)
    W

    Quote
    I DONT ADJUST ANYTHING;UNTILL PROVEN WRONG.
    AND YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN ME WRONG.
    ITS A MATTER OF SEEING THINGS DEEPER
    THAN THE SURFACE.

    :D :laugh: :D :laugh: :laugh: :D

    YOU WOULD NOT CHANGE A THING TO YOUR UNDERSTANDING ,YOU WOULD RATHER CHANGE THE BIBLE THAN CHANGING YOU,

    DO NOT SAY THIS LIKE THAT, THAT IS TO FUNNY  :D :laugh:


    T.

    It is not I that change bibles;but you.
    I stick to the one true bible,the flesh of Christ.
    You have been shopping all over for the flesh of Christ
    and can not find.

    All you have to do is show some evidence
    that the kjv is contradictory.
    But how can you ever;for you have zero
    knowledge.

    wakeup.


    w

    wisdom is seen by its fruits,

    OR QUOTES TO OTHERS ;

    #361638
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Wakeup,

    We could go on and on about this forever.  The bottom line is that you are wrong…….. period.

    The word “god” NEVER meant “All Powerful Creator of All Things” in ANY scripture.  The word in scripture ALWAYS referred to one who was perceived to be a powerful, supernatural being who had power over the lives of human beings and nature.

    And since the MOST HIGH god created all kinds of beings who fit that description, the idea that there is LITERALLY only ONE god in existence is absurd.

    Angels are gods……. period.  Jesus is a god……. period.  Satan is a god…….. period.  And Jehovah is the MOST HIGH god, and the god OF all of those other gods.

    Tell me how Jehovah could be the MOST HIGH GOD if there don't exist LESS HIGH GODS for Him to be HIGHER THAN.  Tell me how He could be the god OF gods if there exist no gods for Him to be the god OF.

    Tell me how we know Jehovah is the god who created all things, Wakeup.  Is it because the word “god”, in and of itself, MEANS creator of all things?  Or is it because scripture over and over tells us that of all the gods, only ONE OF THEM created all things?  It is the latter.

    So first things first………… you must let go of that flawed man-made teaching that there LITERALLY exists only ONE god.  Because that is never taught in any scripture.

    You asked where is the skill in discerning scripture?  It seems you are lacking when it comes to this topic.  Consider the following:

    Barak Obama says:  “Is there a President besides me?  I know of not one.”

    Now that is a TRUE statement taken in the context that, although there do indeed exist many presidents all over the world, none is more powerful than the President of the United States.

    But it is not a LITERAL statement, meaning that all the other presidents of countries and businesses are “non-existent”, “false presidents”, “untrue presidents” or “so-called presidents”.  Instead it is an EMPHATIC statement meant to place Obama ABOVE all those other “lesser presidents”.

    So we could honestly say:

    1.  Obama is the President OF presidents.

    2.  Obama is the MOST HIGH president.

    3.  For us Americans, there is but ONE president, Barak Obama.

    All three statements could be made in complete honesty – although the third one is not a LITERAL statement, because many Americans work under other presidents as well.  The third statement, therefore, is an EMPHATIC statement.  That doesn't mean it is a LIE.  It means that in a manner of speaking, since Obama is our MOST HIGH President, we can say he is our “ONLY president”.

    A scriptural example would be when Jehovah says there is no SAVIOR besides Himself.  This is another example of an EMPHATIC statement – because we know full well that Jehovah has sent many other saviors throughout the history of the world.

    There are other such scriptural examples that we can discuss if you'd like.  But perhaps, in order for you to understand the true meaning of John 1:1, you must first be shown that there do indeed exist many gods and many lords, both in heaven and on earth…… and that Jehovah isn't the ONLY god or lord, but the MOST HIGH of them all.

    Are you ready to empty yourself and learn these things?  Or are you happy in your confusion?

    #361736
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Wakeup……..Don't be lead astray, Jesus said very clearly Thou art the “ONLY” “TRUE” GOD, and 1Cor 8:4  …..”WE KNOW”, that there is no Idol in the world and that there is “NO” GOD, but “ONE”, My advice to you is to believe those scriptures and the many many more that say the same thing and also God the Father Himself said he could find no other God . (true God's that is) there are many, many, many “FALSE God's, created by the mind of carnal minded men who want to use this false teaching to make Jesus a God himself . But it is obvious Jesus did not think He was a God or He would have never Said THOU ARE THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD now would he? IMO

    peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

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