Where is Jesus in the Old Testament?

Many argue that Jesus is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Of course many religious Jews believe this to be the case because they do not believe he is the prophecied messiah. But there are also others who are not religious Jews who believe the Old Testament scriptures never mention or allude to Jesus being the messiah. Is this correct? Did the New Testament writers get a little too creative when they claim that Jesus fulfilled prophecies in the scriptures? Let’s take a look.

There is no argument that the New Testament contains gospels, letters, and teachings centred around the theme that Jesus is the Messiah. And we know that the Old Testament talks about the Messiah. But is there enough evidence to link this messiah to Jesus. Is there proof that he fulfilled the prophecies of the coming messiah as written in the Old Testament?

Yes indeed. There are Old Testament scriptures and prophecies that only Jesus of Nazareth has fulfilled. While his name is not mentioned for obvious reasons, Jesus Christ is certainly the only person in history to fulfil the prophecies and scriptures that we will look at.

Isaiah 51

This verse of the suffering messiah clearly speaks of Jesus. If you asked anybody who this verse is talking about, there is no doubt that the average person on the street would say it was Jesus. Even if you asked the average Jew this question, they too would say it is Jesus (Yeshua). Below is a video that proves this statement.

Next, we take a closer look at this chapter. While it seems to clearly point to Jesus Christ, some argue that it is talking about Israel. This is the go to interpretation for those who deny Jesus. Let’s imagine this is true and draw some conclusions from this interpretation to see if it makes any kind of sense. Listed below are the points this chapter makes that do not fit at all with Israel. The list comprises of 4 sentences with the word ‘Israel’ added in to see if it makes any sense. Following on from that, are the actual words of Isaiah 51.

  1. Israel has no beauty or majesty to attract us to him;
  2. Israel took up our pain,  bore our suffering, pierced for our transgressions, and by Israel’s wounds we are healed;
  3. Israel was assigned a grave with the wicked,  and with the rich in his death, though Israel had done no violence;
  4. Israel poured out his life as an offering for sin and will justify many,  and bear their iniquities.

1. Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

If you are fair and unbiased, it seems that Isaiah 51 is talking about Jesus. Further, Israel doesn’t seem to fit in this verse. While somethings could fit, points like suffering and dying for the sins of humanity doesn’t fit with Israel in the slightest.


Psalm 22

Just before Jesus died on the cross for humanities sins, he quoted Psalm 22:1. It is important to know that it was a practice to quote a scripture and the hearers recite the rest of the scripture. It was a good way to remember the scriptures. Jesus quoted the first verse in that Psalm so that the hearers might understand what was happening before their eyes. See Matthew 27:46:

About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
(which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Now look at Psalm 22:

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
    “let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
    since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
    and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
    a pack of villains encircles me;
    they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
    and cast lots for my garment.

If you look at the above scripture and particularly the verses that are bolded, you will see that they are a very apt description for the death of Jesus. Let’s read what John wrote regarding the time just after the death of Jesus. It spells out some of the prophecies that were fulfilled.

John 19

31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.
32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.
33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”
37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

The New Testament writers certainly believed that Jesus fulfilled Old Testament scripture. If you do not believe this to be the case, then ask yourself who in history has fulfilled these. If you are rational about it, you would at least have to admit that Jesus was the lead contender. In fact the only contender to date.


Daniel 3

In the Book of Daniel, it appears that the Son of God makes an appearance with three men who have been cast alive into a furnace. A fourth person appears who King Nebuchadnezzar says “the fourth looks like a son of the gods.” In other words, if the gods had a son, then this was him. Of course, there is but one Almighty God, and yes he does have a son. It is possible that this fourth person is an angel, but throughout the Old Testament an appearance of the Angel of the LORD is frequent. Many say that this is Jesus Christ before he came in the flesh, but others say it cannot be him as the Son of God was never an angel. This view does have a lot of merit though. Let’s address it by first reading Daniel 3:15-25.

15 Now when you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, if you are ready to fall down and worship the image I made, very good. But if you do not worship it, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. Then what god will be able to rescue you from my hand?” 16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us[c] from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.” 19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was furious with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, and his attitude toward them changed. He ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual 20 and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. 22 The king’s command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace. 24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, “Weren’t there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?” They replied, “Certainly, Your Majesty.” 25 He said, “Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.”

The word Angel is found throughout the Old Testament. It usually refers to heavenly creature who delivers a message from God to humans. However, it can also refer to humans as they can be messengers too. Thus, angel or messenger can be applied to many kinds of being if they are a messenger of God. So this answers the concern that Jesus is not an angel. He actually is an angel or messenger, but not the usual messenger which are usually heavenly cherubs etc.

But there is a also a specific angel called: ‘The Angel of the LORD’ who appears numerous times in the Old Testament, but never in the New Testament. One reason for this could be that this messenger is none other than Jesus Christ before coming in the flesh and who would deny that Jesus is the main Messenger of God?

If this is him, then you would expect no appearances of this messenger during the time Jesus was alive on Earth and this is the case. It is also interesting to note that persons who saw this messenger as recorded in the Old Testament often said that they have seen God even though God himself is invisible. How do we make sense of this? Well in Colossians 1:15-16 we read:

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Colossians certainly fits with Jesus being the Angel of the LORD in the sense that there is no double up of them appearing at the same time and the fact that Jesus Christ is the exact image of the invisible God in bodily form whiches matches the description of seeing God. Let’s read more about the Angel of the LORD to see if this could be the identity of Jesus before he was born into this world.

To be continued.

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  • #312366
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 10 2012,19:23)
    Kerwin………..an unabridged dictionary is better, becasue over time our present dictionary's have reshaped the meaning of some words over time. Like faith for instance, it appears in our present dictionaries as a form of supposition without any need of real evidence required, but we know the Bible says that Faith is the Substance of whats hoped for, the evidence of thing not seen. There is a big difference in the two meanings of the word, one requires true evidence while the other requires only a supposition or any assumption. IMO

    I also agree that Paul was still referencing the Flesh Body as being “Spiritual” functioning. If Paul was trying to say “spirit body” he would have said it that way, and not used the word Spiritual.  All resurrections in scripture show a Physical flesh body even Jesus had a physical body also. And God plainly said Adam and Eve could have lived for ever and not died with the bodies they had in Genesis had they eaten of the tree of life,

    IMO its not understanding what a Spirit is is the big problem here and in most all religion. This seem to be a big Key in understanding many scriptures, IMO

    peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………..gene


    Gene,

    Soulish and its ancient Greek equivalent do mean just what Merriam-Websters dictionary states; though as you say some words have altered meanings. My point was to show Mike it is a recognized English word.

    Flesh + Breath = soul first becomes living.

    Living Body – Soul = death.

    The soul is in the blood and it is the life of the body.

    A body relating to, involving, or suggesting the soul is buried and a body relating to, involving, or suggesting the spirit is raised.

    #312369
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Kerwin,

    Doesn't your explanation imply that those raised in spiritual bodies WON'T HAVE SOULS, since the “soulish body” is dead and gone?

    #312370
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 10 2012,02:25)
    This word doesn't usually appear in our free dictionary………….


    That could be why I've never heard of the word. :)

    Of course, it could be omitted from the free dictionary because NOBODY has ever heard of it, and NOBODY ever uses it in day to day conversation. :D

    But thanks for the info. :)

    #312371
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (t8 @ Sep. 09 2012,15:57)

    Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 10 2012,06:43)
    Um, a, dah, um  –  the part where they can impregnate human women, having children 50% Angelic 50% human.


    What about God. He impregnated Mary.


    Ed? Have you considered t8's point?

    What is your understanding, btw? Do you agree with Kerwin that angels have flesh bodies all the time, but it's a different kind of flesh?

    Or do you agree with Istari and a few others that angels manifested human bodies when they came to earth?

    #312382
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 11 2012,12:44)
    The soul is in the blood and it is the life of the body.


    Three things to consider.

    • If your blood was donated, would you come to life in another persons body?
    • If we can be led by the body or spirit, then obviously we are neither. No one is led by the soul perhaps because they are the soul.
    • If flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and blood is the soul, then our souls are not saved.

    1 Peter 1:9
    for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

    #312403
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 11 2012,11:15)

    Quote (t8 @ Sep. 09 2012,15:57)

    Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 10 2012,06:43)
    Um, a, dah, um  –  the part where they can impregnate human women, having children 50% Angelic 50% human.


    What about God. He impregnated Mary.


    Ed?  (1)Have you considered t8's point?

    What is your understanding, btw?  (2)Do you agree with Kerwin that angels have flesh bodies all the time, but it's a different kind of flesh?

    (3)Or do you agree with Istari and a few others that angels manifested human bodies when they came to earth?


    Hi Mike,

    1) The Angels took them to wife.                            Mary was not God's wife. He obviously planted the seed of Jesus
        This implies Angelic intercourse.                         (or just the “Y” chromosome needed to be male) by other means.

    2) No clue. Wait a minute, Jesus resurrected body may be identical to theirs?     …just a thought?

    3) This seems to be the case regardless of point #2.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #312410
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ Sep. 11 2012,07:40)

    Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 11 2012,12:44)
    The soul is in the blood and it is the life of the body.


    Three things to consider.

    • If your blood was donated, would you come to life in another persons body?
    • If we can be led by the body or spirit, then obviously we are neither. No one is led by the soul perhaps because they are the soul.
    • If flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and blood is the soul, then our souls are not saved.

    1 Peter 1:9
    for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.


    T8,

    Good questions.

    Lev. 17:14 literally states that the soul is in the blood but we know that the soul departs the body; even the blood at death.  The animals mentioned in Lev. 17:14 are dead and so their soul has already departed as has their life; and yet God teaches us that the soul is in the blood.

    Keeping with Leviticus 17:14 and Romans 8:11 a soulish body is a body who is quickened by the soul while a spiritual body is a body who is quickened by the Spirit.

    #312411
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 11 2012,06:09)
    Kerwin,

    Doesn't your explanation imply that those raised in spiritual bodies WON'T HAVE SOULS, since the “soulish body” is dead and gone?


    Mike,

    As with most words it can mean several things; but I simply believe it is speaking of the soul quickened body.  In a like manner the Spiritual body is speaking of a Spirit quickened body. The soul remains but the Spirit is the one that gives life; just as before the resurrection the soul gives life even though the Spirit may be present doing its works.

    #312413
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ Sep. 11 2012,19:40)

    Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 11 2012,12:44)
    The soul is in the blood and it is the life of the body.


    Three things to consider.

    • If your blood was donated, would you come to life in another persons body?
    • If we can be led by the body or spirit, then obviously we are neither. No one is led by the soul perhaps because they are the soul.
    • If flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and blood is the soul, then our souls are not saved.

    1 Peter 1:9
    for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.


    t8

    excellent ,the soul is what God can save or destroy, because he is the one that had given it to us to do as we see fit to serve him or not.

    #312422
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    To all………….A Soul is simply a Body with Spirit (intellect) working in it. Our bodies have intellect working in the blood it maintains our bodies it can replicate cells. We know it as DNA the human code of life. Therefore it say that LIFE is (IN) the Blood and indeed it is. A man is a “living soul” as long as these processes are being carried out but when the blood can not repair because of age or the type of damage or loss of it to the body He becomes a dead Soul and his body begins to corrupt of decompose.

    The whole concept of a Soul still living after death is a false concept, No scripture say our soul are still alive after death,  When a person is dead he or she is truly dead and being dead is not being alive in any state at all. We are totally dependent on a resurrection from that dead state. When Jesus said he was “DEAD” he really meant it and He was resurected with the Same Body that died and in that same body he is alive for ever more.  

    Why because it say the “SOUL THAT SINS “IT” shall die. Jesus never sinned so even though he allowed his Soul/Body to Die for us, God still kept it and revived that same Soul/Body from the grave it was in , Why becasue that, Living SOUL (Jesus), never sinned. And so his Soul/Body never saw corruption in the grave. Because that is where a soul/body corrupts and returns back to the dust from which it came.

    Physical bodies can live for ever and not die, as I have shown you all by what God said about Adam in Genesis , God did not created Man to ever die in the exact way he originally created him. Man Sinned and that is what brought death to him , not becasue he was a physical creation.

    It say sin entered and death came with it. God limited the time of our lives after sin entered the world not before it entered. God warned Adam and Eve not to take to themselves to produce from self the knowledge of good and evil, because in the day (1000 yrs) they did they would die. Had they not did that they still would be alive even to this day in their same bodies> IMO

    peace and love to you all………………………………………………..gene

    #312428
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 11 2012,05:16)

    Quote (t8 @ Sep. 11 2012,19:40)

  • If your blood was donated, would you come to life in another persons body?
  • If we can be led by the body or spirit, then obviously we are neither. No one is led by the soul perhaps because they are the soul.
  • If flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and blood is the soul, then our souls are not saved.

  • t8

    excellent…………..


    Hi Pierre,

    I also agree that t8 made some excellent points.  But consider the second one:

    If WE can be led by the body, then WE are not the body.

    If WE can be led by (or “worship in”) spirit, then WE are not spirit.

    That implies that WE are souls, who are encased in a body, and HAVE a spirit.

    Do you agree?

    #312430
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 10 2012,22:41)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 11 2012,11:15)

    (3)Or do you agree with Istari and a few others that angels manifested human bodies when they came to earth?

    3) This seems to be the case regardless of point #2.


    If they manifested human bodies, then the angels' sperm would have been human sperm, right?

    Human sperm plus human egg doesn't equal 50% human, 50% angel, right?

    #312431
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 11 2012,01:43)
    I simply believe it is speaking of the soul quickened body.  In a like manner the Spiritual body is speaking of a Spirit quickened body.  The soul remains but the Spirit is the one that gives life; just as before the resurrection the soul gives life even though the Spirit may be present doing its works.


    John 6:63
    It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

    Romans 8:11
    But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    These scriptures speak of mortal bodies, before the resurrection, being quickened by spirit.

    I know of no scripture that speaks of a “soul quickened body”.  Do you?

    Kerwin, it seems that as usual, you are going WAY out of your way to prohibit the scriptures from teaching the most likely and obvious lesson.

    The latter part of 1 Cor 15 answers the question: With what kind of body will the dead be raised?

    Paul explains:
    42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

    He also says in verse 37 that you don't sow what will be.

    All these things (along with the rest of the passage) speak about being raised with an entirely different BODY. They don't imply it will be the same kind of body, but “quickened” by a different source. Instead, they teach of an entirely different BODY.

    #312452
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 12 2012,09:01)

    Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 11 2012,05:16)

    Quote (t8 @ Sep. 11 2012,19:40)

  • If your blood was donated, would you come to life in another persons body?
  • If we can be led by the body or spirit, then obviously we are neither. No one is led by the soul perhaps because they are the soul.
  • If flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and blood is the soul, then our souls are not saved.

  • t8

    excellent…………..


    Hi Pierre,

    I also agree that t8 made some excellent points.  But consider the second one:

    If WE can be led by the body, then WE are not the body.

    If WE can be led by (or “worship in”) spirit, then WE are not spirit.

    That implies that WE are souls, who are encased in a body, and HAVE a spirit.

    Do you agree?


    hi Mike

    I saw that ,and I thing that the soul his spirit ,because this is what we use to worship our God with IN SPIRIT ,

    Jn 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.’”

    see born again make sens because this is what now Christ at made available to us,but before we still ad the same soul ,but no place to go,no one teach it ,so many did even do not knew that they had one ,

    to me what God as given us all is a SOUL this means a live person at the start of his journey ,the composition of a Soul I did not know ,but all beings has one soul ,angel ,men,and even God ,so to me this his our creation as beings ,and it is also the soul that will be judged ,men,angels,

    the spirit in witch we communicate and form our soul to be either approve or rejected by God ,is related to our emotion ,our loves,and desires in our heart,THIS IS NOT THE SPIRIT THAT GOD GIVE US ,I believe like Paul says ,that God is always close to all of us through his angel that are spread all over in creation ,Gods angel save us ,guide us ,and protect us ,

    so we have a soul ,if we are in the flesh ,but without flesh we are a soul ,

    know the men inside ,the out side is only a cover for the soul ,

    that is what I come to believe ,from my scriptures understanding .

    #312473
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 12 2012,02:08)

    Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 10 2012,22:41)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 11 2012,11:15)

    (3)Or do you agree with Istari and a few others that angels manifested human bodies when they came to earth?

    3) This seems to be the case regardless of point #2.


    If they manifested human bodies, then the angels' sperm would have been human sperm, right?

    Human sperm plus human egg doesn't equal 50% human, 50% angel, right?


    Hi Mike,

    Do you not believe that the son's of God mentioned
    in Genesis 6:2 were “Angels” and “Not Human”?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #312474
    kerwin
    Participant

    Gene,

    Quote
    A Soul is simply a Body with Spirit (intellect) working in it

    It does not work as Rachael died when her soul departed. How can a soul depart from a soul?

    #312559
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 12 2012,16:39)
    Gene,

    Quote
    A Soul is simply a Body with Spirit (intellect) working in it

    It does not work as Rachael died when her soul departed.  How can a soul depart from a soul?


    Kerwin……….When we all die we depart to the grave>  Scripture says concerning Jesus that God would not let his soul see corruption   in the grave

    Psa 16: 10….> For you will not leave my soul “in hell” (the grave) ; neither will you suffer your Holy One to see corruption.

    Now notice the scripture above that Kerwin,

    Psa 16:9…> Therefore my heart is glad and my glory rejoice: “my flesh” also shall rest in hope.

    question for all why would his “FLESH” rest in hope if he does not need it. becasue he has a “SPIRIT BODY”, why worry about the “FLESH” ?

    I maintain the Soul is the “complete Person” including his FLESH BODY. There is not one resurrection in scripture without a body> IMO

    Peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene

    #312671
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 11 2012,23:39)
    Hi Mike,

    Do you not believe that the son's of God mentioned
    in Genesis 6:2 were “Angels” and “Not Human”?


    Ed,

    Didn't I already answer that question?   ???

    YES, they were ANGELS.

    Is it possible for a spirit being to impregnate a human woman without first manifesting a flesh body?  (Think: God and Mary)

    Is there any scriptural indication that these spirit beings manifested flesh bodies before impregnating human women?

    #312672
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 12 2012,10:26)
    Scripture says concerning Jesus that God would not let his soul see corruption in the grave

    Psa 16: 10….> For you will not leave my soul “in hell” (the grave) ; neither will you suffer your Holy One to see corruption.


    Your scripture doesn't actually say what you claim it says, Gene.

    #312695
    kerwin
    Participant

    Gene,

    Quote
    Kerwin……….When we all die we depart to the grave> Scripture says concerning Jesus that God would not let his soul see corruption in the grave

    Your interpretation does not fit the words about Rachel's death as her soul departed before she was buried. She named her son Benoni as her soul was departing. We would say “with her dying breath”.

    Genesis 35:16-20

    King James Version (KJV)

    16 And they journeyed from Bethel; and there was but a little way to come to Ephrath: and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour.

    17 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also.

    18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

    19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem.

    20 And Jacob set a pillar upon her grave: that is the pillar of Rachel's grave unto this day.

    “qeburah” is the Hebrew word for burial place of the body and Sheol is where the still living soul goes to await the resurrection. The soul returns to Jehovah who places it as he chooses.

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