Where is Jesus in the Old Testament?

Many argue that Jesus is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Of course many religious Jews believe this to be the case because they do not believe he is the prophecied messiah. But there are also others who are not religious Jews who believe the Old Testament scriptures never mention or allude to Jesus being the messiah. Is this correct? Did the New Testament writers get a little too creative when they claim that Jesus fulfilled prophecies in the scriptures? Let’s take a look.

There is no argument that the New Testament contains gospels, letters, and teachings centred around the theme that Jesus is the Messiah. And we know that the Old Testament talks about the Messiah. But is there enough evidence to link this messiah to Jesus. Is there proof that he fulfilled the prophecies of the coming messiah as written in the Old Testament?

Yes indeed. There are Old Testament scriptures and prophecies that only Jesus of Nazareth has fulfilled. While his name is not mentioned for obvious reasons, Jesus Christ is certainly the only person in history to fulfil the prophecies and scriptures that we will look at.

Isaiah 51

This verse of the suffering messiah clearly speaks of Jesus. If you asked anybody who this verse is talking about, there is no doubt that the average person on the street would say it was Jesus. Even if you asked the average Jew this question, they too would say it is Jesus (Yeshua). Below is a video that proves this statement.

Next, we take a closer look at this chapter. While it seems to clearly point to Jesus Christ, some argue that it is talking about Israel. This is the go to interpretation for those who deny Jesus. Let’s imagine this is true and draw some conclusions from this interpretation to see if it makes any kind of sense. Listed below are the points this chapter makes that do not fit at all with Israel. The list comprises of 4 sentences with the word ‘Israel’ added in to see if it makes any sense. Following on from that, are the actual words of Isaiah 51.

  1. Israel has no beauty or majesty to attract us to him;
  2. Israel took up our pain,  bore our suffering, pierced for our transgressions, and by Israel’s wounds we are healed;
  3. Israel was assigned a grave with the wicked,  and with the rich in his death, though Israel had done no violence;
  4. Israel poured out his life as an offering for sin and will justify many,  and bear their iniquities.

1. Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

If you are fair and unbiased, it seems that Isaiah 51 is talking about Jesus. Further, Israel doesn’t seem to fit in this verse. While somethings could fit, points like suffering and dying for the sins of humanity doesn’t fit with Israel in the slightest.


Psalm 22

Just before Jesus died on the cross for humanities sins, he quoted Psalm 22:1. It is important to know that it was a practice to quote a scripture and the hearers recite the rest of the scripture. It was a good way to remember the scriptures. Jesus quoted the first verse in that Psalm so that the hearers might understand what was happening before their eyes. See Matthew 27:46:

About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
(which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Now look at Psalm 22:

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
    “let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
    since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
    and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
    a pack of villains encircles me;
    they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
    and cast lots for my garment.

If you look at the above scripture and particularly the verses that are bolded, you will see that they are a very apt description for the death of Jesus. Let’s read what John wrote regarding the time just after the death of Jesus. It spells out some of the prophecies that were fulfilled.

John 19

31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.
32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.
33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”
37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

The New Testament writers certainly believed that Jesus fulfilled Old Testament scripture. If you do not believe this to be the case, then ask yourself who in history has fulfilled these. If you are rational about it, you would at least have to admit that Jesus was the lead contender. In fact the only contender to date.


Daniel 3

In the Book of Daniel, it appears that the Son of God makes an appearance with three men who have been cast alive into a furnace. A fourth person appears who King Nebuchadnezzar says “the fourth looks like a son of the gods.” In other words, if the gods had a son, then this was him. Of course, there is but one Almighty God, and yes he does have a son. It is possible that this fourth person is an angel, but throughout the Old Testament an appearance of the Angel of the LORD is frequent. Many say that this is Jesus Christ before he came in the flesh, but others say it cannot be him as the Son of God was never an angel. This view does have a lot of merit though. Let’s address it by first reading Daniel 3:15-25.

15 Now when you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, if you are ready to fall down and worship the image I made, very good. But if you do not worship it, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. Then what god will be able to rescue you from my hand?” 16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us[c] from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.” 19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was furious with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, and his attitude toward them changed. He ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual 20 and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. 22 The king’s command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace. 24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, “Weren’t there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?” They replied, “Certainly, Your Majesty.” 25 He said, “Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.”

The word Angel is found throughout the Old Testament. It usually refers to heavenly creature who delivers a message from God to humans. However, it can also refer to humans as they can be messengers too. Thus, angel or messenger can be applied to many kinds of being if they are a messenger of God. So this answers the concern that Jesus is not an angel. He actually is an angel or messenger, but not the usual messenger which are usually heavenly cherubs etc.

But there is a also a specific angel called: ‘The Angel of the LORD’ who appears numerous times in the Old Testament, but never in the New Testament. One reason for this could be that this messenger is none other than Jesus Christ before coming in the flesh and who would deny that Jesus is the main Messenger of God?

If this is him, then you would expect no appearances of this messenger during the time Jesus was alive on Earth and this is the case. It is also interesting to note that persons who saw this messenger as recorded in the Old Testament often said that they have seen God even though God himself is invisible. How do we make sense of this? Well in Colossians 1:15-16 we read:

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Colossians certainly fits with Jesus being the Angel of the LORD in the sense that there is no double up of them appearing at the same time and the fact that Jesus Christ is the exact image of the invisible God in bodily form whiches matches the description of seeing God. Let’s read more about the Angel of the LORD to see if this could be the identity of Jesus before he was born into this world.

To be continued.

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  • #308911
    kerwin
    Participant

    T;

    * Jesus is the Son of Man, as for the flesh; the outward man.

    * Jesus is the Son of God, as for the spirit; the inward man.

    * The new inward man comes from above as is righteous and holy as God.

    * The new inward man is sent from above because Jehovah sends him.

    These are easy to understand and yet you do not.

    My sister advises me this has become a vain argument as you have blinded yourself in your zeal to advance what you have been taught by men. God instructs us to avoid vain arguments.

    #308914
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 12 2012,16:26)
    T;

    * Jesus is the Son of Man, as for the flesh; the outward man.  

    * Jesus is the Son of God, as for the spirit; the inward man.

    * The new inward man comes from above as is righteous and holy as God.

    * The new inward man is sent from above because Jehovah sends him.

    These are easy to understand and yet you do not.  

    My sister advises me this has become a vain argument as you have blinded yourself in your zeal to advance what you have been taught by men.  God instructs us to avoid vain arguments.


    Hi Kerwin,

    * What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? (John 6:62)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #308915
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 12 2012,07:53)

    Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 11 2012,12:35)
    We must see him as God,for he created us.
    But he can never be without his owner.(the Father).


    But now you are reaching too far, and also speaking against scripture.  God created me and you.  We are not the creations of some “living word”, but of God Almighty Himself.

    However, God did create us (and everything else) by means of His Word, Jesus Christ.

    The Word is not God Himself, for He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another.


    MikeB.

    YYYYes, God and his word is one God,and his word is also Gods,and the Holy spirit is also Gods.
    They both belong to the one God.

    You and your word are not two creatures but one.
    Yet if you have the power to bring your word out, and sitting next to you,then you will have two creatures(mike and his word),but you are still one person.

    since God himself has appointed his son to be the mediator between God and man; we should worship the son,therefore we worship the father also.

    wakeup.

    #308918
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2012,22:02)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 09 2012,19:21)
    When Jesus speaks of coming from above he is certainly not speaking of his mortal flesh; as it comes from this world.


    And when the flesh and bone man Jesus Christ says, “I came from above”, or “I came down from heaven”, he is surely not saying, “The Messiahship within me came down from heaven”, or “The spirit within me came from above”.

    He uses the first person, personal pronoun “I“, Kerwin.  This means that THE PERSON Jesus Christ came down from heaven.

    I agree that his flesh body was prepared for him inside the body of Mary, for scripture says, “a body you prepared for me“, right?

    But consider the first person, personal pronoun “me” in that statement.  Surely the word “me” also refers to a PERSON who had a body prepared for him.

    In your understanding, the Word must have been a PERSON who had the flesh body of Jesus prepared for HIM.  Is that what you believe – that the Word was an INDIVIDUAL PERSON who lived alongside God and then was merged with the INDIVIDUAL PERSON of Jesus from Nazareth?


    Mike,

    Ecclesiastes 12:7
    King James Version (KJV)

    7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

    #308925
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 12 2012,17:01)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2012,22:02)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 09 2012,19:21)
    When Jesus speaks of coming from above he is certainly not speaking of his mortal flesh; as it comes from this world.


    And when the flesh and bone man Jesus Christ says, “I came from above”, or “I came down from heaven”, he is surely not saying, “The Messiahship within me came down from heaven”, or “The spirit within me came from above”.

    He uses the first person, personal pronoun “I“, Kerwin.  This means that THE PERSON Jesus Christ came down from heaven.

    I agree that his flesh body was prepared for him inside the body of Mary, for scripture says, “a body you prepared for me“, right?

    But consider the first person, personal pronoun “me” in that statement.  Surely the word “me” also refers to a PERSON who had a body prepared for him.

    In your understanding, the Word must have been a PERSON who had the flesh body of Jesus prepared for HIM.  Is that what you believe – that the Word was an INDIVIDUAL PERSON who lived alongside God and then was merged with the INDIVIDUAL PERSON of Jesus from Nazareth?


    Mike,

    Ecclesiastes 12:7
    King James Version (KJV)

    7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


    Kerwin.

    The true person is what is in the inside not just the outside.
    He could look all good from the outside,but it is the inner person that shows the truth of who he really is.
    some look like white washed graves,white and clean on the outside only.

    The flesh will turn to dust but the inner person will be preserved for judgement day.

    wakeup.

    #308926
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2012,00:01)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2012,22:02)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 09 2012,19:21)
    When Jesus speaks of coming from above he is certainly not speaking of his mortal flesh; as it comes from this world.


    And when the flesh and bone man Jesus Christ says, “I came from above”, or “I came down from heaven”, he is surely not saying, “The Messiahship within me came down from heaven”, or “The spirit within me came from above”.

    He uses the first person, personal pronoun “I“, Kerwin.  This means that THE PERSON Jesus Christ came down from heaven.

    I agree that his flesh body was prepared for him inside the body of Mary, for scripture says, “a body you prepared for me“, right?

    But consider the first person, personal pronoun “me” in that statement.  Surely the word “me” also refers to a PERSON who had a body prepared for him.

    In your understanding, the Word must have been a PERSON who had the flesh body of Jesus prepared for HIM.  Is that what you believe – that the Word was an INDIVIDUAL PERSON who lived alongside God and then was merged with the INDIVIDUAL PERSON of Jesus from Nazareth?


    Mike,

    Ecclesiastes 12:7
    King James Version (KJV)

    7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


    K

    are you try to say that the spirit that return is GODS WORDS ???

    #308929
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 12 2012,23:26)
    T;

    * Jesus is the Son of Man, as for the flesh; the outward man.  

    * Jesus is the Son of God, as for the spirit; the inward man.

    * The new inward man comes from above as is righteous and holy as God.

    * The new inward man is sent from above because Jehovah sends him.

    These are easy to understand and yet you do not.  

    My sister advises me this has become a vain argument as you have blinded yourself in your zeal to advance what you have been taught by men.  God instructs us to avoid vain arguments.


    K

    WOULD YOU BE SO KIND TO SHOW A SCRIPTURE BESIDE ALL YOUR COMMENTS ,THAT CHRIST HAD A INSIDE AND OUTSIDE BEING ,???

    YOUR SISTER ADVISE COULD BE YOUR EXIT FOR NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS ON HAND ,WE DO UNDERSTAND THAT ,

    CHRIST HAS NO INWARD OR OUTWARD BEING HE HIS TOTALLY THE SON OF GOD ,HE PROVE IT WITH OUT A DOUBT,THE IMAGE OF HIS FATHER ,

    SO YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN ,BUT YOU CAN FOLLOW YOUR SISTER ,ADAM DID NOT LISTEN TO GOD NEITHER HE LISTEN TO HIS WIFE,

    #308944
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 12 2012,12:30)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 12 2012,17:01)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2012,22:02)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 09 2012,19:21)
    When Jesus speaks of coming from above he is certainly not speaking of his mortal flesh; as it comes from this world.


    And when the flesh and bone man Jesus Christ says, “I came from above”, or “I came down from heaven”, he is surely not saying, “The Messiahship within me came down from heaven”, or “The spirit within me came from above”.

    He uses the first person, personal pronoun “I“, Kerwin.  This means that THE PERSON Jesus Christ came down from heaven.

    I agree that his flesh body was prepared for him inside the body of Mary, for scripture says, “a body you prepared for me“, right?

    But consider the first person, personal pronoun “me” in that statement.  Surely the word “me” also refers to a PERSON who had a body prepared for him.

    In your understanding, the Word must have been a PERSON who had the flesh body of Jesus prepared for HIM.  Is that what you believe – that the Word was an INDIVIDUAL PERSON who lived alongside God and then was merged with the INDIVIDUAL PERSON of Jesus from Nazareth?


    Mike,

    Ecclesiastes 12:7
    King James Version (KJV)

    7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


    Kerwin.

    The true person is what is in the inside not just the outside.
    He could look all good from the outside,but it is the inner person that shows the truth of who he really is.
    some look like white washed graves,white and clean on the outside only.

    The flesh will turn to dust but the inner person will be preserved for judgement day.

    wakeup.


    Wakeup,

    Pretty much!

    #308945
    kerwin
    Participant

    All,

    The flesh comes from the earth and the soul comes above; for Jehovah is above.

    God thus prepares the body for the soul to enter.

    #308951
    terraricca
    Participant

    k

    ????

    #308964
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 12 2012,03:02)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 09 2012,19:21)
    When Jesus speaks of coming from above he is certainly not speaking of his mortal flesh; as it comes from this world.


    And when the flesh and bone man Jesus Christ says, “I came from above”, or “I came down from heaven”, he is surely not saying, “The Messiahship within me came down from heaven”, or “The spirit within me came from above”.

    He uses the first person, personal pronoun “I“, Kerwin.  This means that THE PERSON Jesus Christ came down from heaven.

    I agree that his flesh body was prepared for him inside the body of Mary, for scripture says, “a body you prepared for me“, right?

    But consider the first person, personal pronoun “me” in that statement.  Surely the word “me” also refers to a PERSON who had a body prepared for him.

    In your understanding, the Word must have been a PERSON who had the flesh body of Jesus prepared for HIM.  Is that what you believe – that the Word was an INDIVIDUAL PERSON who lived alongside God and then was merged with the INDIVIDUAL PERSON of Jesus from Nazareth?


    Mike………God the Father Spoke in the “FIRST” Person through Jesus often, or don't you believe Jesus when he said , the words i am telling you are “NOT MINE” but the Words of Him who Sent Me, (and again) “the Father “IN ME” (HE) does the Works.

    Who do you think said destory this temple and in three days “I” (GOD) shall raise “IT” up, and where God spoke through Jesus, Jerusalem O Jerusalem you who Kill the Prophets and stone those sent unto you , how often would “I” (GOD) have gathered you as a Hen does her Chick , but you would not, Now your house is left unto you dissolute , and you shall not see me (GOD) again until you say Blessed is he who come in the name of the LORD  

    Do you really think that was Jesus Himself saying that or God the Father that was (IN) HIM Speaking (His own words) through HIM?,  As i have said over and over you simply do not understand what a SPIRIT really (IS)> your not alone though. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours…………………………………..gene

    #308965
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 12 2012,02:10)
    g

    Quote
    Now lets get back to the ONE QUESTION I ask YOU , Show us “ONE” scripture that say Satan is a ANGEL

    we and i have shown you many actions and description of what scriptures are saying about who his the devil,what is his purpose,his powers, and why he became in opposition to his creator ,but it seems your understanding of Gods word is only limited to what the devil let you see in it ,

    then you ask me to show you that those words “Satan is a ANGEL” are or do or can be found in scriptures ;why ???


    Terricca……….Why?…….> becasue you and others mouth off, that YOUR SATAN GOD is a “ANGEL” So post the Scripture that says so. But i see your deceptive skills are hard at work again, Or you and they are Just “SPECULATING” and have been proven to be a Hypocrite becasue you say “Scripture says” Satan (IS) a Angel, but can not produce one scripture that says that. You Pride Pierre is preventing you from acknowledging the truth here Brother. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene

    #308980
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Wakeup @ Aug. 11 2012,23:49)
    You and your word are not two creatures but one.
    Yet if you have the power to bring your word out, and sitting next to you,then you will have two creatures(mike and his word),but you are still one person.


    Sounds a little like the Trinity, Wakeup.

    It's better to not imagine some “living word entity” floating around, and just accept that the sentient person Jesus is the Word of God.

    He was a sentient being when the worlds were created through him. He was a sentient being when he had glory alongside his God before the world began. He was a sentient being when he was sent into the world. He was a sentient being after he was made in the likeness of a human being. And he is a sentient being now that he has ascended back to where he came from.

    #308981
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 12 2012,00:01)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 11 2012,22:02)

    In your understanding, the Word must have been a PERSON who had the flesh body of Jesus prepared for HIM.  Is that what you believe – that the Word was an INDIVIDUAL PERSON who lived alongside God and then was merged with the INDIVIDUAL PERSON of Jesus from Nazareth?


    Mike,

    Ecclesiastes 12:7
    King James Version (KJV)

    7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


    I can't see how that scripture answers the question I asked you, Kerwin. Please try again.

    #308982
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 12 2012,08:41)
    Mike………God the Father Spoke in the “FIRST” Person through Jesus often, or don't you believe Jesus when he said , the words i am telling you are “NOT MINE” but the Words of Him who Sent Me, (and again) “the Father “IN ME” (HE) does the Works.


    I know of no instance where we are CLEARLY taught that God Himself spoke first person through Jesus.

    And your bolded part only confirms that it was JESUS who was telling them God's words. That is the opposite of God speaking first person through him.

    #308986
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 13 2012,08:51)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 12 2012,02:10)
    g

    Quote
    Now lets get back to the ONE QUESTION I ask YOU , Show us “ONE” scripture that say Satan is a ANGEL

    we and i have shown you many actions and description of what scriptures are saying about who his the devil,what is his purpose,his powers, and why he became in opposition to his creator ,but it seems your understanding of Gods word is only limited to what the devil let you see in it ,

    then you ask me to show you that those words “Satan is a ANGEL” are or do or can be found in scriptures ;why ???


    Terricca……….Why?…….> becasue you and others mouth off, that YOUR SATAN GOD is a “ANGEL” So post the Scripture that says so. But i see your deceptive skills are hard at work again, Or you and they are Just “SPECULATING” and have been proven to be a Hypocrite becasue you say “Scripture says” Satan (IS) a Angel, but can not produce one scripture that says that. You Pride Pierre is preventing you from acknowledging the truth here Brother. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene


    g

    can you show me in scritures that YOU GENE WILL BE SAVED ??? IF NOT THIS WOULD MEAN THEN THAT YOU CAN NOE BE SAVED RIGHT ???

    #308987
    terraricca
    Participant

    K

    Quote
    God thus prepares the body for the soul to enter.

    would you then say that it is the soul of Christ THE WORD OF GOD that God placed in Mary womb ???

    #309027
    kerwin
    Participant

    All,

    Jesus' soul came from above and was placed in the flesh that was prepared for him by Jehovah.

    The flesh was prepared when Mary conceived the body of Jesus by the power of Jehovah acting through the Holy Spirit.

    Paul speaks of his and his listeners soul with the plural pronoun “we” instead of the words “our soul”.

    2 Corinthians 5
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
    2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
    3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

    #309039
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 13 2012,17:18)
    All,

    Jesus' soul came from above and was placed in the flesh that was prepared for him by Jehovah.

    The flesh was prepared when Mary conceived the body of Jesus by the power of Jehovah acting through the Holy Spirit.

    Paul speaks of his and his listeners soul with the plural pronoun “we” instead of the words “our soul”.

    2 Corinthians 5
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
    2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
    3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.


    K

    what do you understand by a SOUL ???is this a being or something else ???

    #309043
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Kerwin,

    I'm not going to argue semantics on your last post just yet, because it seems God is starting to get you to the place of truth.

    What you have done is equate the beings of Paul and the other elect, (who will be without their flesh bodies in heaven), with the being of Jesus, (before he received his flesh body on earth).  And that means you are on the right track.

    Now, if the “souls” of Paul and the others will still be sentient, self-functioning beings even without their flesh, earthly bodies, then why would you argue that the “soul” of Jesus WASN'T a sentient, self-functioning being BEFORE he was sent to earth to dwell in a flesh, earthly body?

    Surely if God will clothe the “souls” of Paul and the others with heavenly tents after they lose their earthly ones, then the “soul” of Jesus was likewise clothed in a heavenly tent before he emptied himself to be made in the likeness of a human being, right?

    Praise Jah, for our brother Kerwin seems to be walking toward the light.

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