Where is Jesus in the Old Testament?

Many argue that Jesus is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Of course many religious Jews believe this to be the case because they do not believe he is the prophecied messiah. But there are also others who are not religious Jews who believe the Old Testament scriptures never mention or allude to Jesus being the messiah. Is this correct? Did the New Testament writers get a little too creative when they claim that Jesus fulfilled prophecies in the scriptures? Let’s take a look.

There is no argument that the New Testament contains gospels, letters, and teachings centred around the theme that Jesus is the Messiah. And we know that the Old Testament talks about the Messiah. But is there enough evidence to link this messiah to Jesus. Is there proof that he fulfilled the prophecies of the coming messiah as written in the Old Testament?

Yes indeed. There are Old Testament scriptures and prophecies that only Jesus of Nazareth has fulfilled. While his name is not mentioned for obvious reasons, Jesus Christ is certainly the only person in history to fulfil the prophecies and scriptures that we will look at.

Isaiah 51

This verse of the suffering messiah clearly speaks of Jesus. If you asked anybody who this verse is talking about, there is no doubt that the average person on the street would say it was Jesus. Even if you asked the average Jew this question, they too would say it is Jesus (Yeshua). Below is a video that proves this statement.

Next, we take a closer look at this chapter. While it seems to clearly point to Jesus Christ, some argue that it is talking about Israel. This is the go to interpretation for those who deny Jesus. Let’s imagine this is true and draw some conclusions from this interpretation to see if it makes any kind of sense. Listed below are the points this chapter makes that do not fit at all with Israel. The list comprises of 4 sentences with the word ‘Israel’ added in to see if it makes any sense. Following on from that, are the actual words of Isaiah 51.

  1. Israel has no beauty or majesty to attract us to him;
  2. Israel took up our pain,  bore our suffering, pierced for our transgressions, and by Israel’s wounds we are healed;
  3. Israel was assigned a grave with the wicked,  and with the rich in his death, though Israel had done no violence;
  4. Israel poured out his life as an offering for sin and will justify many,  and bear their iniquities.

1. Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

If you are fair and unbiased, it seems that Isaiah 51 is talking about Jesus. Further, Israel doesn’t seem to fit in this verse. While somethings could fit, points like suffering and dying for the sins of humanity doesn’t fit with Israel in the slightest.


Psalm 22

Just before Jesus died on the cross for humanities sins, he quoted Psalm 22:1. It is important to know that it was a practice to quote a scripture and the hearers recite the rest of the scripture. It was a good way to remember the scriptures. Jesus quoted the first verse in that Psalm so that the hearers might understand what was happening before their eyes. See Matthew 27:46:

About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
(which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Now look at Psalm 22:

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
    “let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
    since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
    and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
    a pack of villains encircles me;
    they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
    and cast lots for my garment.

If you look at the above scripture and particularly the verses that are bolded, you will see that they are a very apt description for the death of Jesus. Let’s read what John wrote regarding the time just after the death of Jesus. It spells out some of the prophecies that were fulfilled.

John 19

31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.
32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.
33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”
37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

The New Testament writers certainly believed that Jesus fulfilled Old Testament scripture. If you do not believe this to be the case, then ask yourself who in history has fulfilled these. If you are rational about it, you would at least have to admit that Jesus was the lead contender. In fact the only contender to date.


Daniel 3

In the Book of Daniel, it appears that the Son of God makes an appearance with three men who have been cast alive into a furnace. A fourth person appears who King Nebuchadnezzar says “the fourth looks like a son of the gods.” In other words, if the gods had a son, then this was him. Of course, there is but one Almighty God, and yes he does have a son. It is possible that this fourth person is an angel, but throughout the Old Testament an appearance of the Angel of the LORD is frequent. Many say that this is Jesus Christ before he came in the flesh, but others say it cannot be him as the Son of God was never an angel. This view does have a lot of merit though. Let’s address it by first reading Daniel 3:15-25.

15 Now when you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, if you are ready to fall down and worship the image I made, very good. But if you do not worship it, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. Then what god will be able to rescue you from my hand?” 16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us[c] from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.” 19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was furious with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, and his attitude toward them changed. He ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual 20 and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. 22 The king’s command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace. 24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, “Weren’t there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?” They replied, “Certainly, Your Majesty.” 25 He said, “Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.”

The word Angel is found throughout the Old Testament. It usually refers to heavenly creature who delivers a message from God to humans. However, it can also refer to humans as they can be messengers too. Thus, angel or messenger can be applied to many kinds of being if they are a messenger of God. So this answers the concern that Jesus is not an angel. He actually is an angel or messenger, but not the usual messenger which are usually heavenly cherubs etc.

But there is a also a specific angel called: ‘The Angel of the LORD’ who appears numerous times in the Old Testament, but never in the New Testament. One reason for this could be that this messenger is none other than Jesus Christ before coming in the flesh and who would deny that Jesus is the main Messenger of God?

If this is him, then you would expect no appearances of this messenger during the time Jesus was alive on Earth and this is the case. It is also interesting to note that persons who saw this messenger as recorded in the Old Testament often said that they have seen God even though God himself is invisible. How do we make sense of this? Well in Colossians 1:15-16 we read:

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Colossians certainly fits with Jesus being the Angel of the LORD in the sense that there is no double up of them appearing at the same time and the fact that Jesus Christ is the exact image of the invisible God in bodily form whiches matches the description of seeing God. Let’s read more about the Angel of the LORD to see if this could be the identity of Jesus before he was born into this world.

To be continued.

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  • Author
    Posts
  • #308668
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 08 2012,23:13)
    * Scripture states the Spirit of Christ comes from above; you disagree.


    Kerwin,

  • Scripture states that the flesh and blood man Jesus said HE came from above; you disagree.
  • Scripture states that the flesh and blood man Jesus said HE came down from heaven; you disagree.
#308669
mikeboll64
Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 09 2012,10:20)
k

you make me sick ,the way you use scriptures


I don't suppose I would post it that harshly, but I do feel your pain, Pierre. :)

#308674
Ed J
Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 09 2012,16:13)
T,

* Scripture states Jesus was conceived of Mary; you disagree.
* Scripture states the Spirit of Christ comes from above; you disagree.


Mike, are you going to answer these questions?

#308680
kerwin
Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 10 2012,04:32)

Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 08 2012,23:13)
* Scripture states the Spirit of Christ comes from above; you disagree.


Kerwin,

  • Scripture states that the flesh and blood man Jesus said HE came from above; you disagree.
  • Scripture states that the flesh and blood man Jesus said HE came down from heaven; you disagree.

  • Mike,

    Nowhere does Jesus state his flesh and blood comes from above.

    What is written is:

    Romans 1:3
    King James Version (KJV)

    3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

    Notice the words “according to the flesh”.

    #308684
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 09 2012,17:02)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 09 2012,16:13)
    T,

    * Scripture states Jesus was conceived of Mary; you disagree.
    * Scripture states the Spirit of Christ comes from above; you disagree.


    Mike, are you going to answer these questions?


    Ed,

    1. They are not questions, but statements.

    2. They were not stated to me, but to Pierre.

    3. I did address the 2nd one with a post to Kerwin, even though I'm not sure which scripture actually says, “the spirit of christ comes from above”.

    4. I personally don't disagree with the first one.

    #308685
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 09 2012,17:42)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 10 2012,04:32)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 08 2012,23:13)
    * Scripture states the Spirit of Christ comes from above; you disagree.


    Kerwin,

  • Scripture states that the flesh and blood man Jesus said HE came from above; you disagree.
  • Scripture states that the flesh and blood man Jesus said HE came down from heaven; you disagree.

  • Mike,

    Nowhere does Jesus state his flesh and blood comes from above.


    Kerwin,

    Please re-read my statements more carefully, and tell me whether or not you agree with these things that the flesh and blood human being Jesus Christ said in scripture.

    #308688
    kerwin
    Participant

    T;

    Quote
    like always no scriptures ,just statements without understanding, they can only be true if THE WORD =CHRIST THE SON OF GOD WAS SEND DOWN FROM HEAVEN AS HE SAYS AND AS HIS DISCIPLES SAID,YOU DO NOT BELIEVE SCRIPTURES ,YOU ONLY BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT AND THE WAY YOU FEEL LIKE IT ;THIS IS WRONG OF THE DEVIL.

    I am continuously quoting the passages of the bible which teach us that Jesus was conceived of Mary, as well as other things.  It is not that I do not quote them but instead that there is that within you that does not want to believe them.  Stop doubting and believe that Jesus was conceived of Mary, the seed of David, in regards to the flesh, Romans 1:3.

    The Spirit of Christ comes from above; and by it the Prophets speak the Word; and so reveal they are from above and so strangers and pilgrims in this world; so are all people of God; just as it is written:

    Hebrews 11:13
    King James Version (KJV)

    13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

    Jesus is greater than the Prophets, as he is the Christ; the firstborn of those with God’s Word written on his heart and put in him.

    Romans 8:29
    King James Version (KJV)

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Jeremiah 31:33
    King James Version (KJV)

    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    #308690
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 10 2012,06:51)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 09 2012,17:42)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 10 2012,04:32)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 08 2012,23:13)
    * Scripture states the Spirit of Christ comes from above; you disagree.


    Kerwin,

  • Scripture states that the flesh and blood man Jesus said HE came from above; you disagree.
  • Scripture states that the flesh and blood man Jesus said HE came down from heaven; you disagree.

  • Mike,

    Nowhere does Jesus state his flesh and blood comes from above.


    Kerwin,

    Please re-read my statements more carefully, and tell me whether or not you agree with these things that the flesh and blood human being Jesus Christ said in scripture.


    Mike,

    * I believe that like Abraham, Jesus was and is a stranger in this world, even though the flesh of both was conceived of a woman.
    * I  believe that his Spirit comes from above.
    * I believe that the Messiah-ship comes from above.

    When Jesus speaks of coming from above he is certainly not speaking of his mortal flesh; as it comes from this world.

    #308711
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2012,17:42)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 10 2012,04:32)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 08 2012,23:13)
    * Scripture states the Spirit of Christ comes from above; you disagree.


    Kerwin,

  • Scripture states that the flesh and blood man Jesus said HE came from above; you disagree.
  • Scripture states that the flesh and blood man Jesus said HE came down from heaven; you disagree.

  • Mike,

    Nowhere does Jesus state his flesh and blood comes from above.

    What is written is:

    Romans 1:3
    King James Version (KJV)

    3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

    Notice the words “according to the flesh”.


    K

    who his the man called THE SON OF MAN ???

    WHO HIS THE MAN NAMED THE SON OF GOD ???

    WHO HIS THE THE MAN THAT WAS BEFORE JOHN THE BAPTIST WAS ???

    WHO WAS THE MAN GOD SEND FROM ABOVE ???

    WHO WAS THE MAN THAT CAME DOWN FROM THE FATHER ???

    WHO HIS THE WORD OF GOD THAT BECAME FLESH ???

    WHO WAS THAT WORD OF GOD ; THAT ALL THE APOSTLES TOUCHED SEW,EARED PREACHING AND SAW HIM BEING LIFTED UPWARD ???

    WITCH MAN CLAIM THAT HE CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN ???

    WITCH MAN WAS DECLARE BY THE HOLY SPIRIT TO GODS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON ???

    WHO WAS HE THAT WAS EXISTING FROM THE BEGINNING BEFORE CREATION ???

    WHO WAS THE MAN THAT THE APOSTLES CLAIM THAT ALL WAS CREATED THROUGH HIM ???

    WITCH MAN CAN CLAIM THAT HIS FATHER WAS,HIS GOD,AND FOR EVER WILL BE ???

    WHO IS THE LIAR THAT SAYS THAT A MAN CAN BE 100% MAN AND YET ONLY HAVE A WOMEN FOR A PARENT ???

    PLEASE ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS

    #308718
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 10 2012,11:48)

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 09 2012,17:02)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 09 2012,16:13)
    T,

    * Scripture states Jesus was conceived of Mary; you disagree.
    * Scripture states the Spirit of Christ comes from above; you disagree.


    Mike, are you going to answer these questions?


    Ed,

    1.  They are not questions, but statements.

    2.  They were not stated to me, but to Pierre.

    3.  I did address the 2nd one with a post to Kerwin, even though I'm not sure which scripture actually says, “the spirit of christ comes from above”.

    4.  I personally don't disagree with the first one.


    HI Mike,

    So you don't disagree with either than – good, neither do I.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #308722
    kerwin
    Participant

    T;

    To answer your questions you require knowledge of the inward and outward man.

    2 Corinthians 4
    King James Version (KJV)

    16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

    #308730
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2012,22:24)
    T;

    To answer your questions you require knowledge of the inward and outward man.

    2 Corinthians 4
    King James Version (KJV)

    16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.


    k

    YOU ARE BLOWING THE WIND ,and you now recognized that you do not know Christ nor his father ,this is important to know for us,

    you arguing in full blindness ,this is absurd,

    #308740
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 10 2012,11:31)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2012,22:24)
    T;

    To answer your questions you require knowledge of the inward and outward man.

    2 Corinthians 4
    King James Version (KJV)

    16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.


    k

    YOU ARE BLOWING THE WIND ,and you now recognized that you do not know Christ nor his father ,this is important to know for us,

    you arguing in full blindness ,this is absurd,


    T;

    So it seems you lack knowledge of the inward and outward man. Obtain that knowledge and those questions can be answered. Lacking that knowledge means you will not understand the answers.

    #308743
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 11 2012,01:13)

    Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 10 2012,11:31)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2012,22:24)
    T;

    To answer your questions you require knowledge of the inward and outward man.

    2 Corinthians 4
    King James Version (KJV)

    16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.


    k

    YOU ARE BLOWING THE WIND ,and you now recognized that you do not know Christ nor his father ,this is important to know for us,

    you arguing in full blindness ,this is absurd,


    T;

    So it seems you lack knowledge of the inward and outward man.  Obtain that knowledge and those questions can be answered.  Lacking that knowledge means you will not understand the answers.


    K

    Please answer the questions and show us all your real understanding in scriptures,

    The verse you quoted me in 2CKor:4 is talking about us men that halve changed in wards ,and so the outward men has died ,because he does not follows the seduction of the flesh,any more

    But Christ did not add any bad orientation or desires ,so this can not be used for Christ in any way,

    So answer all of the questions one by one , their are more but this will do

    #308748
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2012,12:01)
    T;

    Quote
    like always no scriptures ,just statements without understanding, they can only be true if THE WORD =CHRIST THE SON OF GOD WAS SEND DOWN FROM HEAVEN AS HE SAYS AND AS HIS DISCIPLES SAID,YOU DO NOT BELIEVE SCRIPTURES ,YOU ONLY BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT AND THE WAY YOU FEEL LIKE IT ;THIS IS WRONG OF THE DEVIL.

    I am continuously quoting the passages of the bible which teach us that Jesus was conceived of Mary, as well as other things.  It is not that I do not quote them but instead that there is that within you that does not want to believe them.  Stop doubting and believe that Jesus was conceived of Mary, the seed of David, in regards to the flesh, Romans 1:3.

    The Spirit of Christ comes from above; and by it the Prophets speak the Word; and so reveal they are from above and so strangers and pilgrims in this world; so are all people of God; just as it is written:

    Hebrews 11:13
    King James Version (KJV)

    13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

    Jesus is greater than the Prophets, as he is the Christ; the firstborn of those with God’s Word written on his heart and put in him.

    Romans 8:29
    King James Version (KJV)

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Jeremiah 31:33
    King James Version (KJV)

    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


    Kerwin……….You have it right Brother, They simply do not understand the Truth nor do they desire it either. Trinitarians and Preexistences are one and the same, they both preach a false Christ and their work is a work of separation They can  not accept Jesus as a Human Being, They have just as it says, 'gone the way of Balm and shall perish in the gainsaying of Kora”   They make Jesus different becasue they simply do not believe God took a Ordinary Purely Human Being and Perfected Him, Just as He can and does all his Saints.  Their false teaching denies Both Jesus and God the Father and their work in HUMANITY>

    They have turned the “image” Jesus into the “image” of a Man of Sin Spoke of BY Paul in 2 Ths 2.  But those who truly seek the Truth and Love it shall escape their web of deceit> IMO

    peace and love to you and yours Kerwin………………………………..gene

    #308749
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 10 2012,09:09)

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 10 2012,04:24)
    Terricca……… Exactly I would not understand it in “WHICH WAY YOU SHOW IT” you have correctly said that at least , So Produce the “ONE SCRIPTURE” that says YOUR SATAN “IS” a ANGEL . Your trash talk and slamming me mean nothing to me or for that matter anyone else, Produce you PROOF ONE SCRIPTURE will do “IF YOU CAN”.

    peace and love ………………………………………………………………gene


    Hi Gene, H3742

    כְּרוּב: cherub, plural cherubims
    An angelic being — cherub, (plural) cherubims.

    “Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon
    the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
    Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.” (Ezek 28:14-15)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    EDJ………..Brother go to the very start of that whole thing and PLEASE NOTICE what God told EZEKIEL > It was a PROVERB ( fictitious illustrations) that was sent to the King , not and “ACTUAL” thing. It was never meant to be taken LITERALLY God was showing the King how (HIS) heart and Mind was working. Where his own hearth and mind had lifted him up to that position in life. It's a “PROVERB” (a factitious illustration) EDJ.  

    That proverb was sent to and about that person who it was sent to, and no where does it say it was sent to anyone other then him.  WE should not force the text to say what in fact it is not saying EDJ.

    Still waiting for them to produce “ONE TRUE” Scripture that say SATAN IS A ANGEL”. They haven't yet neither can anyone else either. IMO

    peace and love to you and your EDJ…………………………………….gene

    #308751
    terraricca
    Participant

    gene

    sinse it seems that you know ,then why do you not answer the questions all of them ;

    who his the man called THE SON OF MAN ???

    WHO HIS THE MAN NAMED THE SON OF GOD ???

    WHO HIS THE THE MAN THAT WAS BEFORE JOHN THE BAPTIST WAS ???

    WHO WAS THE MAN GOD SEND FROM ABOVE ???

    WHO WAS THE MAN THAT CAME DOWN FROM THE FATHER ???

    WHO HIS THE WORD OF GOD THAT BECAME FLESH ???

    WHO WAS THAT WORD OF GOD ; THAT ALL THE APOSTLES TOUCHED SEW,EARED PREACHING AND SAW HIM BEING LIFTED UPWARD ???

    WITCH MAN CLAIM THAT HE CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN ???

    WITCH MAN WAS DECLARE BY THE HOLY SPIRIT TO GODS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON ???

    WHO WAS HE THAT WAS EXISTING FROM THE BEGINNING BEFORE CREATION ???

    WHO WAS THE MAN THAT THE APOSTLES CLAIM THAT ALL WAS CREATED THROUGH HIM ???

    WITCH MAN CAN CLAIM THAT HIS FATHER WAS,HIS GOD,AND FOR EVER WILL BE ???

    WHO IS THE LIAR THAT SAYS THAT A MAN CAN BE 100% MAN AND YET ONLY HAVE A WOMEN FOR A PARENT ???

    PLEASE ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS

    #308752
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 11 2012,08:42)

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 10 2012,12:01)
    T;

    Quote
    like always no scriptures ,just statements without understanding, they can only be true if THE WORD =CHRIST THE SON OF GOD WAS SEND DOWN FROM HEAVEN AS HE SAYS AND AS HIS DISCIPLES SAID,YOU DO NOT BELIEVE SCRIPTURES ,YOU ONLY BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT AND THE WAY YOU FEEL LIKE IT ;THIS IS WRONG OF THE DEVIL.

    I am continuously quoting the passages of the bible which teach us that Jesus was conceived of Mary, as well as other things.  It is not that I do not quote them but instead that there is that within you that does not want to believe them.  Stop doubting and believe that Jesus was conceived of Mary, the seed of David, in regards to the flesh, Romans 1:3.

    The Spirit of Christ comes from above; and by it the Prophets speak the Word; and so reveal they are from above and so strangers and pilgrims in this world; so are all people of God; just as it is written:

    Hebrews 11:13
    King James Version (KJV)

    13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

    Jesus is greater than the Prophets, as he is the Christ; the firstborn of those with God’s Word written on his heart and put in him.

    Romans 8:29
    King James Version (KJV)

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Jeremiah 31:33
    King James Version (KJV)

    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


    Kerwin……….You have it right Brother, They simply do not understand the Truth nor do they desire it either. Trinitarians and Preexistences are one and the same, they both preach a false Christ and their work is a work of separation They can  not accept Jesus as a Human Being, They have just as it says, 'gone the way of Balm and shall perish in the gainsaying of Kora”   They make Jesus different becasue they simply do not believe God took a Ordinary Purely Human Being and Perfected Him, Just as He can and does all his Saints.  Their false teaching denies Both Jesus and God the Father and their work in HUMANITY>

    They have turned the “image” Jesus into the “image” of a Man of Sin Spoke of BY Paul in 2 Ths 2.  But those who truly seek the Truth and Love it shall escape their web of deceit> IMO

    peace and love to you and yours Kerwin………………………………..gene


    gene

    Quote
    They have turned the “image” Jesus into the “image” of a Man of Sin Spoke of BY Paul in 2 Ths 2. But those who truly seek the Truth and Love it shall escape their web of deceit> IMO

    those are your words up ,now look down

    Quote
    They make Jesus different becasue they simply do not believe God took a Ordinary Purely Human Being and Perfected Him, Just as He can and does all his Saints.

    now tell us all HOW COULD A MAN BORN FROM A WOMEN WITHOUT A HUMAN MAN(FATHER) BE AN ORDINARY MAN ???

    #308754
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Terricca………….OK I WILL and then You show us where SATAN IS SAID to be an ANGEL OK?

    1……….Ezekiel , and Jesus , and ALL of Man KIND are called Sons of Man.
    2………. See above. Jesus was maned the Son of Man becasue His (IS) a SON of Man.
    3……….Been discussed many times before , the word Before is a POSITION and meaning TIME>
    4………. All the Prophets were sent from above and that includes Jesus also.
    5……….All thing came down from God the FATHER Or don't you believe Jesus who said “OUR” FATHER who is in heaven
    6……..No one is the word of god that became Flesh, The word of God is Spirit and came to be (IN) the Flesh man Jesus.
    7…….. Al scripture has the Word of God (in) them and Jesus also Had the words of Gd in Him and so did the Prophets. God and His word are one and the same thing they can not be separated no more then you and your words can be separated>
    8……No man claimed to come “DOWN” physically from Heaven They can be Sent out into the world from Heaven By GOD as many were. Jesus was in the PLAN and WILL of God from the very beginning and was Brought into existence by God at the appointed time. Cyrus the Kings was also brought into existence at His appoint time so are we to say He also came down form Heaven and what about Jeremiah the Prophet?
    9………..All who are Born of the Spirit are NOW SON of GOD, or don't you believe Scriptures that say that. The spirit of God is from ABOVE and (IT) was and IS in Jesus and ALL who HAVE (IT) (IN) them, there is not difference it is all of the Same Spirit from ABOVE and is Not of this world even as Jesus said His Apostles were not of the World and Him also.

    10……> God as the only one who existed from the beginning Or ORIGIN of (ALL) CREATION. He and his WORD are ONE and THE SAME thing.
    11………..No apostle claimed any Man created anything much less All things.
    12……….I can and do claim that as well as my Brother Jesus and all his disciples and Saint do also.
    13………I do and you have no understanding of the Power of God or you could easily understand how that is Possible as explained to you before Now you seen to be the Liar and deny that Power of God to Manipulate the DNA of anyone he chooses to.

    Now enough of you games , Show us all where “ANY” SCRIPTURE SAYS SATAN is A ANGEL.

    peace and love………………………………………gene

    #308761
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 11 2012,01:53)

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 10 2012,09:09)

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 10 2012,04:24)
    Terricca……… Exactly I would not understand it in “WHICH WAY YOU SHOW IT” you have correctly said that at least , So Produce the “ONE SCRIPTURE” that says YOUR SATAN “IS” a ANGEL . Your trash talk and slamming me mean nothing to me or for that matter anyone else, Produce you PROOF ONE SCRIPTURE will do “IF YOU CAN”.

    peace and love ………………………………………………………………gene


    Hi Gene, H3742

    כְּרוּב: cherub, plural cherubims
    An angelic being — cherub, (plural) cherubims.

    “Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon
    the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
    Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.” (Ezek 28:14-15)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    EDJ………..Brother go to the very start of that whole thing and PLEASE NOTICE what God told EZEKIEL > It was a PROVERB ( fictitious illustrations) that was sent to the King , not and “ACTUAL” thing. It was never meant to be taken LITERALLY God was showing the King how (HIS) heart and Mind was working. Where his own hearth and mind had lifted him up to that position in life.  It's a “PROVERB”  (a factitious illustration) EDJ.  

    That proverb was sent to and about that person who it was sent to, and no where does it say it was sent to anyone other then him.  WE should not force the text to say what in fact it is not saying EDJ.

    Still waiting for them to produce “ONE TRUE” Scripture that say SATAN IS A ANGEL”. They  haven't yet neither can anyone else either. IMO

    peace and love to you and your EDJ…………………………………….gene


    Hi Gene, is this 'forcing' the text?

    “Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God” (Ezek 28:13)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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