Home Christian Writings Supporting the Trinity Doctrine? – The Trinity Doctrine Revelation 1:8 Page 8

Revelation 1:8

Revelation 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

The scripture says it was the “Lord God” according to most translations, so it is clearly referring to the Father. But some argue that it is talking about Jesus because the context or verses before this one are in deed talking about Jesus. So let’s dig deeper and see if this means that Revelation 1:8 is also talking about Jesus.

In the beginning of the book in Revelation 1, it says that there is an actual angel speaking the words of the Revelation and it is this angel who quotes Jesus, who in turn quotes the Lord God.

Revelation: 1-1
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Then in verse 4 & 5 we see this snippet:
4 Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, 
5 AND from Jesus Christ,

So it is clearly talking about God and then Jesus as another. It then continues to talk about Jesus right up to verse 7 and so the argument goes that verse 8 is also Jesus. However, it clearly identifies “The Lord God” as being the one who is the Alpha and Omega. And we know that Jesus got his revelation from this God.

Revelation 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

But let’s imagine for a minute that it is actually referring to Jesus even though it clearly is not. Even if that were the case it still doesn’t teach the Trinity. Either way you argue it, neither view teaches the Trinity. The term first and last can have many contexts. I could be the first and the last regarding this web site. I was definitely the first to post here, and if I outlive all of the active members here, then I would be the last. So the term first and last certainly doesn’t make me God or part of a Trinity does it.

However, as has been clearly demonstrated above, it is the Father who is the Alpha and Omega in verse 8 of the Book of Revelation.

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Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 141 through 160 (of 401 total)
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  • August 17, 2016 at 11:03 am#816805
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    T8….NO ,YOU ARE THE ONE denying he was a human christo’s, or messiah, perhaps you don’t really know what it means to be a ANOUNTED PERSON.

    He was born a human and he was born the savior, messiah, lord, and son of God. I have an angel’s testimony as to the truth of this. What do you have? A lack of free will so you cannot be blamed for not understanding it?

    How can you confuse this confession of mine as saying I am denying that he is the human christos. You are either being dishonest with my own words or you are not worthy to discuss this subject because you cannot seem to grasp what people are saying about it.

    You oppose me for speaking the truth. That is a spirit at work that goes against truth. That spirit denies that Jesus is the Christ and it seems that many here believe that he was not for the vast majority of his earthly life. How can you then say that I am the one denying he is human and the Christ. Perhaps you are just joking?

    August 17, 2016 at 11:14 am#816806
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Hi t8,
    Jesus never denied he was the Christ.
    True.
    When was he asked?
    Was it in the first 30 years of his life or only the last three?
    Are you saying he quenched the Spirit till the Jordan?

    No I am not saying that. Again it is you who brings this accusation up which doesn’t make any sense to me.

    If you believe that Jesus was not the Christ till Jordan, then clearly you believe that Jesus was not the Christ for the vast majority of his life. Once he was baptised by John, he was already a grown man and his ministry lasted a fraction of the time that he lived before that.

    So clearly Jesus is not the Christ to you for most of his life. That is what you teach. I simply point out the truth which is written, that the Antichrist spirit is exposed by the confession that Jesus is not the Christ and not the son of God. While the angel declared that he was both the Christ and son of God the day he was born, you clearly deny this. It is amazing how this spirit is discovered to be honest. It cannot admit the truth about Jesus and those under its influence will be found out when they eventually express their denial of Jesus being the Christ.

    Basically speaking, your doctrine says that Jesus Christ is the Christ. As for you, Jesus is a mere man with no anointing, thus he is not the Christ to you ever because he is Jesus a mere man like us and that is it.

    August 17, 2016 at 11:17 am#816807
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    In 1 thess 5 .19 we are told not to quench the Spirit
    but you think it was OK for Jesus to do so for the first 30 years of his life?

    You are rambling again Nick. You do not seem to have any control over these accusations of yours. They just keep on coming.
    But you can choose to stop this and be one with the body of Christ. Up to you, but you need to lift up the body, not attack it like a cancer.

    August 18, 2016 at 3:50 am#816825
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T8….So show us a single mircale GOD performed through the man Jesus before his baptizem at the Jordan, then you may have something, show us were he was tempted directly by Satan, before that time, or was going around preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God or doing any mircales. YOU know you can’t, but we have scriptures that tell us Jesus grew in stature and understand over time and then he was ANOINTED with the SPIRIT OF GOD at around thirity in the JORDAN RIVER and “Then” began his “christo’s or anointed work, because the Spirit of God came into him and begain to lead him to achieve God the Fathers work, Just as the Spirit lead Moses and did great works through him also, as well as many prophets of old, all being lead and moved by the SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD.

    peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    August 24, 2016 at 1:13 pm#816862
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    T8….So show us a single mircale GOD performed through the man Jesus before his baptizem at the Jordan,

    His ministry had not really started then Gene. John came to prepare the way and the one the Spirit descended on was the Christ. This sign showed John that he must become less and Jesus become more.

    So what was John’s reaction to baptizing Jesus a mere man without the Spirit as you and Nick say. John tried to prevent him proclaiming that “I have need to be baptized by You“.  But what does a mere man like you an me have to baptize with Gene?

    NOTE: Jesus was not yet baptized and yet John already knew that he was better than him. Strange that John would be like that to Jesus if your view is right. You and Nick claim he was just a man like you and me. Why then did John try to prevent him from being baptized and instead be baptized by him? What credentials did he have before baptism? Nothing according to you Gene and Nick. No he was just a man like us. Strange behavior from John then if you guys are correct. But of course you both are wrong because the testimony of an angel exposes your false teaching.

    Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.

    You guys publicly oppose this message from the angel.

     

    August 24, 2016 at 3:08 pm#816864
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T8,

    You offer that he was born anointed with no scriptural evidence.

    You tell us he lived most of his life showing no evidence of this anointing.

     

    And you deny that the Spirit descended on him at the Jordan?

    Wake up

    August 24, 2016 at 3:43 pm#816867
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    The words of an angel are no evidence, but we are to take the words of Nick as true, even though you were true when you held a different opinion.

    Come on Nick, how stupid do you think we are. Perhaps you will change your mind again and be even more right. But that would make you wrong wouldn’t it.

    Here is the evidence that you missed:

    Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.

    August 24, 2016 at 4:53 pm#816869
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Why did you think we said the messiah was not born?

    August 25, 2016 at 3:13 am#816875
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T8….YOU COULD SAY THE SAME ABOUT MOSES, WHEN HE WAS BORN RIGHT? , BUT HE DID NOT BECOME THE SAVIOR OF ISREAL FOR GOD TILL AFTER HE WAS ANOINTED AND SENT FORTH TO DO THE WORK OF GOD.

    AS FAR A JOHN THE BAPTIST IS CONCERNED HE ALSO DOUBTED LATER THAT JESUS WAS THE MESSIAH, BECAUSE HE SENT HIS SERVANTS TO INQUIRE OF HIM IF THEY WERE TO LOOK FOR ANOTHER.

    Another thing we never said we doubted the words of the angel, yes that day A SAVIOR “WAS” “BORN” UNTO THEM, but that was all just born unto them, WE ARE NOT DENYING THAT, BUT THAT NO WHERE SAYS HE ALREADY SAVED THEM AS A SAVIOR AT BERTH. IT WAS THAT CHILDS DESTINY TO BE A SAVIOR, beening a savior is a process that takes place over time, but it didn’t happen till it happened, you on the otger hand tell us it already happened at his berth, nothibg could be further from the truth .

    THE apostle Paul told us he was taken for an apostle at berth, but was he that?, no, not untill he was baptized and recieved the spirit of God into him, untill then he persecuted the church of God, even though it was his destiny to be an apostle of the church of God.

    JESUS was not sent out into the world to preach the gospel of the kingdom of GOD TILL AFTER HIS BAPTIZM, AND THEN HE BEGAN BEING LEAD BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD, FIRST INTO THE WILDERNESS TO TEMPTED BY SATAN, AND AFTER THAT OUT INTO THE WORLD TO PREACH THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

    YOU ARE DENYING HIS ANOINTING PROCESS AS EVEN TAKING PLACE AT THE TIME OF HIS BAPTIZM, AND THEREFORE ARE ANTICHRISTO’S, BECAUSE YOU DENY HIS ANOINTING PROCESS BY SAYING HE WAS BORN ANOINTED.

    We are not antichristo’s, because we do believe that the anointing process did take place on the man JESUS, AS SCRIPTURE SHOWS. AS A RESULT OF THAT ANOINTING GOD THE FATHER TOOK HIS ABODE IN HIM, Just as he said , “the Father was “in” him” and GOD the Father begain his work through him, Just as he did through Moses.

    peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    August 25, 2016 at 2:56 pm#816882
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Gene and Nick. Scripture says that Jesus was born the Christ, savior, the Lord, even the son of God. Any disagreement puts you in disagreement with God and the angel he sent to deliver the message. It is written clearly and I believe it. Yet you writhe in agony over this. Strange.

    August 26, 2016 at 2:25 am#816894
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T8….NO SCRIPTURE SAYS JESUS “WAS” BORN THE SAVIOR, MEANING THAT HE HAD ALREADY DIED FOR OUR SINS AS A SAVIOR AT BERTH. HE WAS INDEED THE ONE BORN FOR THAT VERY PURPOSE, BUT IT SIMPLY DIDN’T HAPPEN TILL IT HAPPENED. COMMON SENSE 101.

    T8….Be honest you need this to continue to believe Jesus preexisted his berth on this earth, lest your prexistence house of cards comes crashing down. JESUS DID NOT PREEXIST HIS BERTH ON THIS EARTH, HE DID NOT SAVE THE WORLD AT BERTH T8. TAKE YOUR BLINDERS OFF.

    peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    August 26, 2016 at 9:18 am#816896
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    T8….NO SCRIPTURE SAYS JESUS “WAS” BORN THE SAVIOR,

    Wrong!

    for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord

    Clearly the angels message is contradictory to your statement Gene. You are obviously wrong. Where is your love for the truth? Is the love of stubborn pride greater than that of truth?

    August 27, 2016 at 2:32 am#816906
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T8….NO ONE HERE IS SAYING JESUS WAS NOT “BORN” THEN, AND WAS DESTENED TO BE THE SAVIOR. YOU ARE THE ONE SAYING HE WAS THE SAVIOR AT HIS BERTH, WHEN SCRIPTURE PLAINLY SHOWS HE WAS NOT UNTIL HE WAS OFFERED UP AND DIED FOR OUR SINS IN ORDER FOR US TO BE FORGIVEN, THAT DID NOT TAKE PLACE AT HIS BERTH, AS YOU BELIEVE. BUT IT WAS HIS DESTENY AT BERTH.

    ISA 9:6….unto us a child “is” born, unto us a son “is” given: and the government “SHALL” be upon his shoulder: and his name “SHALL” be called wonderfull counseller, ………T8 TELL US WAS HE ALRADY THAT OR DOES SHALL BE mean a (future tense) and also notice the word “IS” BORN (PRESENT TENSE) SO THE PROPHESY SAY HE “IS” (present tense) BORN, REFERANCING HIS BERTH, AS (present tense), AND THEN SHOWING WHAT HE “SHALL” BE, REFERANCING (future tense).

    BUT IN FACT YOU DON’T EVEN BELIEVE HE WAS A TRULY BORN HUMAN BEING, DO YOU?, YOU BELIEVE HE WAS A “MORPHED” BEING FROM ANOTHER STATE OF EXISTENCE.

    peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    August 27, 2016 at 8:26 am#816912
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,

    If you disagree the hot seat may await you.

    Like the JWs t8 pins his doctrinal hopes on this one verse and he will not be denied.

     

    August 27, 2016 at 8:55 pm#816915
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Pathetic and childish statement from Nick. People can preach false doctrine on this site and do. What you cannot do among a list of things is dodge simple yes no questions about your own teachings. This is so false doctrine can be brought out into the light. But those who teach falsely hide the devil in the details and hate the idea that their yes be yes and no be no. They do everything and say everything to avoid it. Stop blaming everyone as being wrong Nick and judge yourself. You would be a better person for it. We all have to meet our maker one day, have you forgotten that?

    August 27, 2016 at 9:00 pm#816916
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    But until you hear the voice of the Spirit in the servants of God

    you will continue to teach what is false.

     

    Tradition rules here and all who see more will be kicked out.

     

     

     

     

    August 27, 2016 at 9:09 pm#816917
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    T8….NO ONE HERE IS SAYING JESUS WAS NOT “BORN” THEN, AND WAS DESTENED TO BE THE SAVIOR.

    He was born the savior, Christ, and the Lord. The antichrist spirit denies that he is the Christ. Do you hold to the Antichrist view for most of his earthly life?

    for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord

    So when he was born, he was the Christ. Simple! Your words of opposition are subtle like the serpent. But I see through them.

    August 27, 2016 at 9:15 pm#816920
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Yes that is your understanding.

    But most know he was anointed at the Jordan.

    August 27, 2016 at 9:18 pm#816922
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T8,

    Jesus of Nazareth was anointed by the Holy Spirit according to Peter.

    But you think it was the Bethlehem infant?

     

    August 27, 2016 at 9:48 pm#816928
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    The point in question is you do not believe that he was born the Christ. This is the point and was always the point. You are dodging the issue and so the remedial Hot Seat is now the place to get the answer. Face it, you cannot say the same message as the angel of God because something is different between you and that angel. Ask yourself why you cannot admit verbatim what that angel declared as the mouthpiece of God. I can, but you refuse.

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