Home Christian Writings Supporting the Trinity Doctrine? – The Trinity Doctrine Revelation 1:8 Page 6

Revelation 1:8

Revelation 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

The scripture says it was the “Lord God” according to most translations, so it is clearly referring to the Father. But some argue that it is talking about Jesus because the context or verses before this one are in deed talking about Jesus. So let’s dig deeper and see if this means that Revelation 1:8 is also talking about Jesus.

In the beginning of the book in Revelation 1, it says that there is an actual angel speaking the words of the Revelation and it is this angel who quotes Jesus, who in turn quotes the Lord God.

Revelation: 1-1
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Then in verse 4 & 5 we see this snippet:
4 Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, 
5 AND from Jesus Christ,

So it is clearly talking about God and then Jesus as another. It then continues to talk about Jesus right up to verse 7 and so the argument goes that verse 8 is also Jesus. However, it clearly identifies “The Lord God” as being the one who is the Alpha and Omega. And we know that Jesus got his revelation from this God.

Revelation 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

But let’s imagine for a minute that it is actually referring to Jesus even though it clearly is not. Even if that were the case it still doesn’t teach the Trinity. Either way you argue it, neither view teaches the Trinity. The term first and last can have many contexts. I could be the first and the last regarding this web site. I was definitely the first to post here, and if I outlive all of the active members here, then I would be the last. So the term first and last certainly doesn’t make me God or part of a Trinity does it.

However, as has been clearly demonstrated above, it is the Father who is the Alpha and Omega in verse 8 of the Book of Revelation.

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Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 101 through 120 (of 401 total)
123…567…192021
  • Author
    Posts
  • July 24, 2016 at 10:40 am#816174
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi,

    The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God . rom8

    Jesus was led by the Spirit of God.

    July 27, 2016 at 4:10 pm#816236
    Dsutter1
    Participant

    Yes, I also see the problem with your argument is that first, in the kjv my txts read: the lord, not the Lord God. But that doesnt mean much.. what does, however, is that after Jon heard this voice saying I am the alpha and omega he turns and sees Jesus!! later on after Jon clearly writes about the incredible glory of jesus christ, then Jesus himself says it again, clearly from him.. I am the alpha and the omega! Now the writer of this article doesn’t seem 2 think so but I cant think of a claim more bold of being God than that!! He is essentially saying I am uncreated.. nothing comes before me… notice he didn’t say.. I am the beta and the omega….

    July 27, 2016 at 4:45 pm#816237
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi dsutter1,

    There are many voices in Revelation.

     

    The revelation of Jesus Christ,

    which God gave him to show to His bond servants,

    the things which must soon take place;

    and He sent and communicated it by His angel

    to His bond servant John,

    who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.

     

    We should not jump to conclusions.

     

    July 27, 2016 at 10:14 pm#816240
    kerwin
    Participant

    Dsutta1,

    I have heard alph and omega have symbolic meanings that were known at that time and in the culture involved. In Hebrew the equivalent is I am Aleph and Tav. Tav is translated mark in Ezekiel 9:4 and also happens to be a cross.

    I get this from an interesting article called what is the aleph tav.

    July 28, 2016 at 2:46 am#816242
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Duster1….There is a big difference between the words LORD (Adonia, meaning Almighty God) and lord (adoni, meaning a human ruler. We are told we can come to the measure and “full” stature of Christ Jesus, but we are not told we can come unto the full measure and stature of God, nowhere in scripture. We bow to Jesus to the glory of God the Father , not to the glory of the man Jesus. No human is ever told to worship the man Jesus, but we are told to worship God the Father who Jesus worshiped. Jesus did not even allow himself to be called Good either, saying “why call me good, there is no one good but God.

    Better to listen to what Jesus said about himself and believe him, instead of trying to make him into another God. 2 Ths2. No one who listens to Jesus will say he is a God, but will worship the only true God he worshiped and no other. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours……..gene

    July 28, 2016 at 3:59 pm#816258
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Kerwin, that doesn’t make Jesus a mere shell. No he is a person by whom we can trust because he is the chosen one of God.

    All who trust in him are trusting in God because God sent him.

    Jesus says what he hears the Father saying. Notice that he says it and he does it. When he laid down his life, he actually did that. God in him was not the one laying down his life. Rather Jesus did the will of his Father. Such does not nullify Jesus. John said, that he would become less and Jesus greater.

    Likewise, we can speak and do what the Father speaks and does. But that doesn’t make us mere shells either. We still speak and we are still considered unique persons.

    July 28, 2016 at 4:21 pm#816259
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    So what can a man do to add to the work of God?

    What can he offer to God to help the plan?

     

    What can he do of himself?

    July 28, 2016 at 5:14 pm#816262
    kerwin
    Participant

    Duplicate due access difficulties on my end.

    July 28, 2016 at 5:14 pm#816263
    kerwin
    Participant

    @t8,

    I have to disagree with you because he said as you will not me.

    Jesus’s will, the desires of his flesh, was not the one that chose to sacrifice himself but rather it was God’s will, the desires of the Spirit.

    It was his actions based on God’s desires that he sacrifice himself.

    In a certain way he is an empty vessel, which is why Philippians 2 uses the words “he emptied himself”. He also instructed us to do the same thing with the words “deny yourself”.

    Scripture teaches us he never sinned though tempted by evil so we know he never chose to walk according to the flesh; which means he never chose to do his own will. Instead he united himself with God’s will by choosing to always walk according to the Spirit.

    July 28, 2016 at 8:06 pm#816265
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    From the time he was anointed at the Jordan and led by the Spirit

    which words did he say that did not come from the indwelling Spirit?

    Let’s take these words:

    “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.

    Clearly Jesus is speaking about God and himself. If the Spirit were talking through a shell in the manner you suggest, then it would mean that the Spirit was saying believe in God and the Spirit.

    When Jesus speaks and does that which his Father says and does, what that means is this:

    • Jesus speaks in harmony with God’s words as he is one with the Father.

    It does not mean this:

    • the Father speaks through a shell. If that was the case, then he wouldn’t say things like:

    “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'”.

    Clearly Jesus talks about himself at times. But what he says is in harmony with what the Father says.

    July 28, 2016 at 8:11 pm#816266
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Kerwin, when you empty yourself, you are not comitting suicide. What you are doing is placing something else before you, in this case if you deny all your privilege and power and become a servant, then that is one apt description of emptying yourself.

    Remember that we still must love our fellow man as we love ourselves. To love yourself we have to exist and be somebody. We still exist. We still talk. We still love. But all we do should be right and that is God’s will and we will be transformed into his image more and more rather than make ourselves into an image that we desire from our own ignorance.

    July 28, 2016 at 8:13 pm#816267
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    So what can a man do to add to the work of God?

    What can he offer to God to help the plan?

    What can he do of himself?

    He can submit himself to God and God’s plan.

    We can be baptisesd.

    We can build on the true foundation.

    We could also live a healthy life too so he can serve God for longer.

    There are many things we can do to add to work of God.

    We can shine the light of God. Jesus said:

    You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a basket. Instead, they set it on a lampstand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.

    God doesn’t expect us to do nothing. He provided the way, but faith without works is dead Nick.

    July 28, 2016 at 9:33 pm#816268
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Wake up.

    All is grace.

     

    We are useless without the grace of God.

     

    July 29, 2016 at 2:10 am#816269
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Hi…”What does God “require” of you, O man, but to do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly “with” your God”

    Peace and love to you all and yours………gene

    July 29, 2016 at 2:39 am#816270
    kerwin
    Participant

    t8,

    Kerwin, when you empty yourself, you are not comitting suicide. What you are doing is placing something else before you, in this case if you deny all your privilege and power and become a servant, then that is one apt description of emptying yourself.

    Remember that we still must love our fellow man as we love ourselves. To love yourself we have to exist and be somebody. We still exist. We still talk. We still love. But all we do should be right and that is God’s will and we will be transformed into his image more and more rather than make ourselves into an image that we desire from our own ignorance.

    Sounds fairly good but it is emptying yourself of the desires of the flesh that important not of of power and privileges. An individual with the later can still be a servant.

    The individual that denies themselves is no longer themselves, i.e. old godless self, but instead becomes a new themselves, i.e a new godly human. “The mystery of godliness is great”.

    July 29, 2016 at 3:10 am#816272
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Kerwin….You and T8 Have brought out some good points, scripture tells us we are being renewed by the transforming of our minds, and Jesus did say we are to bear our own cross so we must deny ourselves and follow him and overcome as he did ” by the power of God”, we are being “created” unto good works by God the Father. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours………gene

    July 29, 2016 at 7:28 am#816273
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    So you believe that men are able to please and serve God by their own works?

    You believe that men are needed by God and have something useful to offer Him?

    July 31, 2016 at 8:34 pm#816369
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Wake up.

    All is grace.

     

    We are useless without the grace of God.

    So when it says that faith without works is dead, then that is not true because all is grace?

    You seem to speak with fork tongue.

    July 31, 2016 at 8:43 pm#816370
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Sounds fairly good but it is emptying yourself of the desires of the flesh that important not of of power and privileges.

    I know you do not like the idea that he was born the savior, messiah, and lord, yet he did exactly what you said is not that important.

    And he led Him to Jerusalem and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down from here; 10 for it is written,

    ‘He will command His angels concerning You to guard You,’
    and,

    ‘On their hands they will bear You up,
    So that You will not strike Your foot against a stone.’”
    And Jesus answered and said to him, “It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

    He didn’t use his sonship, lordship, and title as savior to ask for fire to come down from heaven or any such thing.

    How many of us would be tempted to do so if we could.

    He did the will of God and did not take things into his own hands and did not call on God to end this world.

    He endured, suffered, and died as a humble servant before God, so we could be preserved.

    July 31, 2016 at 8:45 pm#816371
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    So you believe that men are able to please and serve God by their own works?

    No, that is your own mind playing tricks on you or your lack of honesty in interpreting my words. Or perhaps you are just genuinely mistaken?

    Nick, these words of yours sound like they came from the Devil himself.

    • “You surely will not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened…  – The Devil
    • If you are the Son of God,  throw yourself down. … – The Devil
    • So you believe that men are able to please and serve God by their own works? – Nick

    All three points are not true.

     

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