Home Christian Writings Supporting the Trinity Doctrine? – The Trinity Doctrine Revelation 1:8 Page 2

Revelation 1:8

Revelation 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

The scripture says it was the “Lord God” according to most translations, so it is clearly referring to the Father. But some argue that it is talking about Jesus because the context or verses before this one are in deed talking about Jesus. So let’s dig deeper and see if this means that Revelation 1:8 is also talking about Jesus.

In the beginning of the book in Revelation 1, it says that there is an actual angel speaking the words of the Revelation and it is this angel who quotes Jesus, who in turn quotes the Lord God.

Revelation: 1-1
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Then in verse 4 & 5 we see this snippet:
4 Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, 
5 AND from Jesus Christ,

So it is clearly talking about God and then Jesus as another. It then continues to talk about Jesus right up to verse 7 and so the argument goes that verse 8 is also Jesus. However, it clearly identifies “The Lord God” as being the one who is the Alpha and Omega. And we know that Jesus got his revelation from this God.

Revelation 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

But let’s imagine for a minute that it is actually referring to Jesus even though it clearly is not. Even if that were the case it still doesn’t teach the Trinity. Either way you argue it, neither view teaches the Trinity. The term first and last can have many contexts. I could be the first and the last regarding this web site. I was definitely the first to post here, and if I outlive all of the active members here, then I would be the last. So the term first and last certainly doesn’t make me God or part of a Trinity does it.

However, as has been clearly demonstrated above, it is the Father who is the Alpha and Omega in verse 8 of the Book of Revelation.

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Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 21 through 40 (of 401 total)
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  • May 22, 2015 at 6:10 am#798174
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Who is speaking?

    The book or Revelation switches between the Angel, The Son Jesus Christ and God Himself.

    You need to discern each voice before you rush to judgement.

    May 22, 2015 at 7:49 am#798181
    kerwin
    Participant

    It is John’s voice at that point and he simply quotes “The Lords God” according to some text or just “the Lord” according to other texts. The latter is vague enough that is is uncertain whom he is quoting but the version you chose is less vague in it attributes the quote to the Lord God. In the quote the Lord God speaks in the first person while John speaks of Jesus Christ in the third person.

    John also speaks of himself in the third person or it is a third party speaking but tradition teaches it is John. I went by tradition in the answer I gave above.

    May 24, 2015 at 6:02 am#798332
    DavidL
    Participant

    If the verse says that the One speaking is the One “who is, and who was, and who is to come,” – then you should immediately recognize Who is speaking…

    Surely it is only your built in prejudices against the trinity doctrine that hinders you from confessing the obvious truth…!

    ..a truth that sends you scuttling back into your dingy labyrinth of religious confusion..

    May 24, 2015 at 6:40 am#798339
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Davidl,

    Yes you must be wary of the deceiver.

    Beware too of his works done through men.

    May 24, 2015 at 7:05 am#798342
    kerwin
    Participant

    DavidL,

    “Look, He is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him”; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of Him.” So shall it be! Amen”

    These do not say Jesus is God but rather tell us of his second coming.

    Revelation 1:8New King James Version (NKJV)

    8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,”[a] says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
    Footnotes:

    Revelation 1:8 NU-Text and M-Text omit the Beginning and the End.
    Revelation 1:8 NU-Text and M-Text add God.

    8 is just a quote that is attributed to either 1) the Lord God or 2) the Lord.

    Nothing connects the two verses but given this part of Revelations is the introduction it may be a quote of the same statement that appears later in the actual prophecy.

    May 24, 2015 at 7:12 am#798343
    kerwin
    Participant

    DavidL,

    “who is and who was and who is to come”

    When speaking of God it just means eternal in a language that does not have the equivalent of the word eternal.

    May 24, 2015 at 7:33 am#798347
    kerwin
    Participant

    DavidL,

    I realize you believe it is speaking of Jesus as it states “to come” but their is also a world to come and many other things to come.

    May 24, 2015 at 7:34 am#798348
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Jesus Christ is the first of the new creation but also the last as he is the door for all others.

    May 26, 2015 at 3:36 am#798419
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    DavidL…….THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS , “who is, and who was, and who is to come”, is speaking of GOD THE FATHER. A TIME WILL COME WHEN GOD THE FATHER WILL LIVE AND DWELL AMONG HIS PEOPLE, JUST AS SCRIPTURE SAYS HE WILL. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. ……………..gene

    June 13, 2016 at 6:21 pm#814827
    Togel
    Participant

    Revelation 1:17-18 NKJV:

    17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.
    18 “I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

    Re 2:8 ¶ “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:

    Re 22:13 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

    Re 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

    So, the Almighty is the the Alpha and the Omega = the Beginning and the End = the First and the Last = who lives and was dead = who was dead and came to life. Clearly Jesus Christ.

    Before Jesus was born:

    Isaiah 44:6 “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God.

    Isaiah 48:12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last.

    So, if Jesus is not God (I believe that He is the Son of God as well), then how could he uses the same name as God in Isaiah?

     

     

    June 14, 2016 at 2:01 am#814834
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Togel……JESUS IS THE FIRST AND EXACTLY LIKE THE LAST, OF THOSE RESURECTED FROM THE DEAD.

    IN ISSIAH, IT IS GOD SPEAKING, NOT JESUS.., and where it say “his” redeemer it is referencing ISREAL’S REDEEMER , IT is not talking about the man JESUS.

    GOD ALMIGHTY IS THE ALPHA AND OMEGA THE FIRST OF “ALL” THINGS, AND THE LAST OF “ALL” THINGS. WITHOUT HIM NOTHING CAME INTO EXISTENCE THAT EXISTS.

    peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    June 14, 2016 at 3:37 am#814836
    Togel
    Participant

    Gene… I am sorry, but I think you are putting words into Jesus mouth (words). Jesus did not say “I am the first of those resurected from the dead” in this verse. Please do not add words that Jesus did not speak. He clearly identifies Himself as the First and the Last, and in other verses in this same book, this “the First and the Last” person indentifies Himself as The Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End:

    Revelation 22:13  “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

    Also in Revelation 1:10-11:

    10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet,
    11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,”

    and then John continues the description of the source of the voice, and then this Person again said in verse 17:

    17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.
    18 “I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

    So, IT IS VERY CLEAR that the same person is identifying Himself as the First and the Last, and the Alpha and the Omega, “who was dead and alive forevermore”, which CANNOT BE but Jesus Christ.

    If you read these verses carefully and with an open mind, you will see this. There is no need to twist it.

    Besides, Peter and Paul also acknowledge that Jesus is God:

    Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

    2Peeter 1:1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

    So, if the two greatest apostles acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is God, why should we not?

     

    June 14, 2016 at 7:30 am#814842
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Togel,

    Did you not know that God dwells in and speaks through Jesus Christ?

    June 14, 2016 at 12:10 pm#814846
    Togel
    Participant

    Hi Nick,

    Yes, I think so.

    It is perhaps a tough thing to understand indeed.

    Christ taught that God is Spirit (John 4:24). So, logically, the body of Jesus is not God, because it is not spirit, but the Spirit inside of Jesus must be God. But then, is God not powerful enough to turn His human body into God? I had heard a term ‘hypostatic union’ and perhaps this refers to this?

    So, actually I have a question for the writer of this blog. If Jesus is the Son of God in His status, what is His essence? Is it God? or only man? I think His essence/substance is God. Son of God is only His status.

    June 14, 2016 at 2:29 pm#814850
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Togel,

    Jesus is a man like us.

    He was anointed with the Holy Spirit.

    That Spirit worked and spoke through him. Acts 10.38

    June 14, 2016 at 2:56 pm#814854
    Togel
    Participant

    Hi Nick,

    So, you think Jesus did not exist before He was born in Bethlehem?

    June 14, 2016 at 2:58 pm#814855
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Togel,

    Yes the man Jesus was conceived in his mother’s womb.

    June 14, 2016 at 3:11 pm#814857
    Togel
    Participant

    What about His spirit. You know, the Bible teaches that a man is triune, comprising body, soul, and spirit. So, before Jesus was born, how about His spirit and soul? Do you think He did not exist? Just like every other men, just like us?

    June 14, 2016 at 3:19 pm#814858
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Togel,

    Yes he was body, soul and spirit as we are.

    But about 30 yrs after birth he was anointed with the Holy Spirit at the Jordan.

    June 14, 2016 at 3:56 pm#814861
    Togel
    Participant

    Hi Nick,

    Excuse me, but are you a Christian? Or a Moslem? Or Jehovah witness? Or?

    I believe you are completely ignoring Bible verses that say that Jesus exists BEFORE he was born.

    This could be because you are ignorant, since you are a Moslem, or simply because you are not aware of these verses, or you just choose to ignore them.

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