Home Christian Writings Supporting the Trinity Doctrine? – The Trinity Doctrine 1 John 5:20 Page 45

1 John 5:20

Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Read this part slowly:

“And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ.”

The true one mentioned in this verse, has to be the Father. Why?

Because it clearly says, We are in HIM who is true, by being in HIS son.

Who is the son mentioned here? It is Jesus Christ.

Who is the one who is true that has a son? Well that has to be the Father because Jesus never had a son did he? If you hold the view that Jesus is the one true God in this verse, then you have to conclude that Jesus has a son called Jesus because the one who is true has a son called Jesus according to the verse.

So by this very simple, clear, and reasonable reading of the text, we can see that the Father is the one who is true and we are in the Father because we are in HIS son. That is the only way you can read this verse.

Do you need further proof? Well look at John 17:3:
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

As you can see, the only true God is not Jesus Christ here either because the only true God is said to have sent Jesus Christ just like 1 John 5:20 says.

The next verse supports these two preceding verses and teaches that Jesus is not God, rather, that he was sent by God as confirmed in these two verses above.

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

You have just been shown two or three witness verses that clearly state that God sent his son into the world and that this God who has a son is the only true God.

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Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 881 through 900 (of 1,982 total)
123…444546…9899100
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    Posts
  • April 19, 2012 at 12:02 am#293280
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,
    Jesus sent his brothers into the world too.[jn17]
    You need to conquer the different sense of Time God holds

    April 19, 2012 at 12:10 am#293282
    jammin
    Participant

    nick,

    but they did not come from heaven.

    April 19, 2012 at 12:26 am#293285
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2012,10:44)

    Quote (jammin @ April 18 2012,02:53)
    did i say that the son is the father?? the son is not the father!

    but they have the same nature, GOD

    exmple mike
    you and your father have the same nature, MAN.

    are you your father?or you are his son?

    do you understand? or just pretending that you dont understand this truth?


    I understand what you're trying to say, jammin.  I just don't think you're understanding your own statements as clearly as you should.  For example, let's imagine that my father was a human being who was alive in 1922, built the Hoover Dam, and was honored for ages because of that great accomplishment.  While I might have the same human nature as him, it wouldn't mean that I was alive in 1922, nor would it mean I had any part of building the Hoover Dam.  You see, I can't apply the lifetime or accomplishments of my father to myself – yet you continually try to do this with Jesus.  Scripture says the FATHER and GOD of Jesus created all things, yet you think because Jesus has the nature of his Father, HE also created all things.  That's just not how it works.

    Let's take my fake scenario about my father a step farther, so I can show you another place where your reasoning is flawed:  Imagine my father's name was “Manfred” (yes, that's a real name), but he was known all his life as “Man”.  When I was begotten by “Man”, I would be equally “a man” like him, but I would not be Man himself, right?

    So when we talk about Jesus being the Son of God, we are talking about him being the Son of a particular PERSON – not the Son of a “species” known as “Godkind” or something.  Yet that is how you apply your reasoning.  

    But our God Jehovah is an individual Person, jammin.  Jesus is not this Person, but the Son OF this Person.  And since this Person is a god (in fact, the Most High of all gods), then it stands to reason that His Son would also have His nature and be a god, but His Son would not be the same God.  And the fact of the matter is that while there exist many gods in heaven and on earth, only one God created all things, and only one God is to be worshipped by us.  And just as I didn't build the Hoover Dam that MY FATHER built, Jesus didn't create the things that HIS FATHER created.  And just as I cannot rightfully accept the accolades given to my father for building the Hoover Dam, Jesus cannot rightfully accept the worship due his own Father and God for creating all things.

    Jesus is the Son of God Most High, and therefore cannot be God Most High Himself.


    let us make this smple mike

    you and your father have the same nature, MAn. and you agree to that.

    you must also agree that the father and the son have the same nature, GOD.

    the father is not the son. the son is not the father.

    God created all things thru Christ.
    Christ is a creator. he created the heavens and the earth.
    heb 1.8-10

    he cant be God by nature if he is just created by his father or God.
    God is not a created being. that is not the nature of God.

    you have the nature of your father, MAN. man is mortal, man is created, man is limited etc etc. that is your nature.
    but God is immortal, he is all powerful, he is all knowing, etc etc. that is the nature of GOD and Christ possessed all these attributes.

    April 19, 2012 at 12:34 am#293288
    jammin
    Participant

    if you believe that Christ is not eternal and created by God, therefore he is not really God “by nature”.

    you may accept the doctrine that he is just man and not God who became flesh. but i think you will not also accept this doctrine bec you believe Christ is “a god”. but your doctrine is too silly. the bible says he came from heaven. the bible says he is God by nature and “not a created god”.

    if you are God by nature, you cant be created. you are eternal bec that is the nature of God.
    your doctrine is really funny mike LOL

    your christ is a created god. what kind of god is that?
    LOL

    April 19, 2012 at 12:39 am#293291
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ April 18 2012,18:26)
    but God is immortal


    Micah 5:2
    2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
    though you are small among the clans of Judah,
    out of you will come for me
    one who will be ruler over Israel,
    whose origins are from of old,
    from ancient times.”

    Romans 6:9
    For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.

    Quote (jammin @ April 18 2012,18:26)
    he is all powerful


    John 14:28
    ……the Father is greater than I.

    John 5:30
    By myself I can do nothing

    Quote (jammin @ April 18 2012,18:26)
    he is all knowing,


    Matthew 24:36
    No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

    Quote (jammin @ April 18 2012,18:26)
    that is the nature of GOD and Christ possessed all these attributes.


    It seems your argument is against scripture, jammin.

    April 19, 2012 at 12:42 am#293293
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ April 18 2012,18:34)
    the bible says he is God by nature and “not a created god”.


    Actually, in the “Was Jesus Created?” thread, I believe I showed you at least five different scriptures that make clear that Jesus is not the ONE who created all things, and therefore has no choice but to be one of the things created by that ONE.

    Jesus himself says he is “the beginning of the creation by God”.

    April 19, 2012 at 1:14 am#293309
    jammin
    Participant

    rom 6.9

    paul said God manifested in the flesh. that flesh body died! do not make people fool mike.

    —–
    john 14.28
    read the context boy.
    you just cut the verse and conclude that the son is not equal with the father

    let me post what paul said.
    phil 2 GW
    6Although he was in the form of God and equal with God,
    he did not take advantage of this equality.

    now, what is the true meaning of john 14.28?

    let me post the context of the verse.
    john 14.28-31
    28Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

    29And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

    30Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

    31But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

    that is the reason why Christ said that the father is greater than him bec he loves the father and do what he says.
    the father is the purpose and goal of his life! that is the real meaning of the verse!

    paul said
    Philippians 2:8

    Common English Bible (CEB)

    8 he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death,
    even death on a cross.

    ———
    mat 24.36 refers to his human nature. the verse did not say that he, “as a son of GOD”, will not know the day and hour of his coming

    King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    as a man, no one knows that day. even angels do not know that day but as “GOD” he knows that day bec the nature of God is all knowing.

    does Christ really know everything?

    John 21:17

    King James Version (KJV)

    17He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

    i believe what the apostles said. sorry mike but your doctrine contradicts to the teaching of the apostles.

    April 19, 2012 at 1:16 am#293310
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2012,11:42)

    Quote (jammin @ April 18 2012,18:34)
    the bible says he is God by nature and “not a created god”.


    Actually, in the “Was Jesus Created?” thread, I believe I showed you at least five different scriptures that make clear that Jesus is not the ONE who created all things, and therefore has no choice but to be one of the things created by that ONE.

    Jesus himself says he is “the beginning of the creation by God”.


    yes he is the beginning of the creation of God
    it refers to the supremacy of Christ. he is the ruler of God's creation and not created by God.

    April 19, 2012 at 1:26 am#293313
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ April 19 2012,12:14)
    rom 6.9

    paul said God manifested in the flesh. that flesh body died! do not make people fool mike.

    —–
    john 14.28
    read the context boy.
    you just cut the verse and conclude that the son is not equal with the father

    let me post what paul said.
    phil 2 GW
    6Although he was in the form of God and equal with God,
         he did not take advantage of this equality.

    now, what is the true meaning of john 14.28?

    let me post the context of the verse.
    john 14.28-31
    28Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

    29And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

    30Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

    31But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

    that is the reason why Christ said that the father is greater than him bec he loves the father and do what he says.
    the father is the purpose and goal of his life! that is the real meaning of the verse!

    paul said
    Philippians 2:8

    Common English Bible (CEB)

    8         he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death,
           even death on a cross.

    ———
    mat 24.36 refers to his human nature. the verse did not say that he, “as a son of GOD”, will not know the day and hour of his coming

    King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    as a man, no one knows that day. even angels do not know that day but as “GOD” he knows that day bec the nature of God is all knowing.

    does Christ really know everything?

    John 21:17

    King James Version (KJV)

    17He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

    i believe what the apostles said. sorry mike but your doctrine contradicts to the teaching of the apostles.


    Hi Jammin,
    Yes God was IN CHRIST reconciling the world to Himself.[2cor5.19]
    He was not in HIMSELF was He

    April 19, 2012 at 2:27 am#293352
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ April 18 2012,19:14)
    paul said God manifested in the flesh. that flesh body died! do not make people fool mike.


    If Jesus didn't really die like the rest of us die, and if he wasn't really raised from the dead like the rest of us are to be raised from the dead, then in Paul's words, “we are to be pitied more than all men” for believing a lie.  (1 Cor 15:12-19)

    Jesus was a spirit being who was placed inside of a “flesh suit” for a while.  If all that “died” was the “flesh suit”, it would be like you wearing a jumpsuit for a while, then burning that jumpsuit, and then saying you sacrificed YOURSELF for all men simply by sacrificing a jumpsuit you wore for a while.   ???

    Quote (jammin @ April 18 2012,19:14)
    31But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment even so I do,. Arise, let us go hence.

    that is the reason why Christ said that the father is greater than him bec he loves the father and do what he says.


    So ONE God Almighty bosses the OTHER God Almighty around, but somehow, even with ONE bossing the OTHER ONE around, we have but ONE God Almighty?   ???   Sheer nonsense.

    Quote (jammin @ April 18 2012,19:14)
    mat 24.36 refers to his human nature. the verse did not say that he, “as a son of GOD”, will not know the day and hour of his coming


    Oh.  So then Jesus WASN'T “God on earth” after all?  :)

    Quote (jammin @ April 18 2012,19:14)
    sorry mike but your doctrine contradicts to the teaching of the apostles.


    Sorry jammin, but your doctrine not only contradicts the WHOLE of scripture, but it defies God-given common sense as well.  :)

    April 19, 2012 at 2:35 am#293357
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi MB,
    You say
    “Jesus was a spirit being who was placed inside of a “flesh suit” for a while.”

    2 Corinthians 11:4
    For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

    April 19, 2012 at 3:27 am#293369
    jammin
    Participant

    God manifested in the flesh. GOD did that to you mike for you to be saved!

    he humbled himself paul said. dont you understand that?
    Christ is God by nature.

    when Chrst was on earth, he's still GOD!

    mat 24.36 refers to his HUMAN NATURE AND NOT HIS “NATURE AS GOD”

    peter said he knows all things. that's what the bible says. study hard mike

    your christ is a created god. LOL
    what kind of god is that. LOL

    the Christ of the bible is truly GOD! he became flesh and he did this to save people from their sins! paul said he humbled himslef!

    God is good all the time

    April 19, 2012 at 3:29 am#293373
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 19 2012,12:26)

    Quote (jammin @ April 19 2012,12:14)
    rom 6.9

    paul said God manifested in the flesh. that flesh body died! do not make people fool mike.

    —–
    john 14.28
    read the context boy.
    you just cut the verse and conclude that the son is not equal with the father

    let me post what paul said.
    phil 2 GW
    6Although he was in the form of God and equal with God,
         he did not take advantage of this equality.

    now, what is the true meaning of john 14.28?

    let me post the context of the verse.
    john 14.28-31
    28Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

    29And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

    30Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

    31But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

    that is the reason why Christ said that the father is greater than him bec he loves the father and do what he says.
    the father is the purpose and goal of his life! that is the real meaning of the verse!

    paul said
    Philippians 2:8

    Common English Bible (CEB)

    8         he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death,
           even death on a cross.

    ———
    mat 24.36 refers to his human nature. the verse did not say that he, “as a son of GOD”, will not know the day and hour of his coming

    King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    as a man, no one knows that day. even angels do not know that day but as “GOD” he knows that day bec the nature of God is all knowing.

    does Christ really know everything?

    John 21:17

    King James Version (KJV)

    17He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

    i believe what the apostles said. sorry mike but your doctrine contradicts to the teaching of the apostles.


    Hi Jammin,
    Yes God was IN CHRIST reconciling the world to Himself.[2cor5.19]
    He was not in HIMSELF was He


    nick,

    Philippians 2:6

    New Living Translation (NLT)

    6 Though he was God,
    he did not think of equality with God
    as something to cling to.

    i believe what paul said.

    April 19, 2012 at 3:30 am#293374
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,
    Was God the man Jesus Christ then?
    Who was the God IN Jesus Christ then?[2cor 5.19]

    April 19, 2012 at 3:38 am#293379
    jammin
    Participant

    read the context boy
    here is the meaning of the verse

    2 Corinthians 5:18-19

    Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
    18 All this is from God. Through Christ, God made peace between himself and us. And God gave us the work of bringing people into peace with him. 19 I mean that God was in Christ, making peace between the world and himself
    . In Christ, God did not hold people guilty for their sins. And he gave us this message of peace to tell people.

    2 Corinthians 5:18-19

    Common English Bible (CEB)

    18 All of these new things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and who gave us the ministry of reconciliation. 19 In other words, God was reconciling the world to himself through Christ, by not counting people’s sins against them. He has trusted us with this message of reconciliation.

    the meaning of God was in christ is God was reconciling the world to himself through Christ …

    that's the meaning of the verse. read the context boy

    April 19, 2012 at 3:38 am#293380
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,
    So two gods then?

    April 19, 2012 at 3:41 am#293381
    jammin
    Participant

    the term God refers to their nature.
    their nature is God.
    they are both God.

    your nature is only one nick. your nature is MAN.

    April 19, 2012 at 3:49 am#293382
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,
    So God was IN Christ.
    The same anointing the CHRIST received is waiting for you

    April 19, 2012 at 4:00 am#293387
    jammin
    Participant

    nick,

    making peace between the world and himself

    April 19, 2012 at 4:09 am#293389
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,
    You want to share the peace?
    The Spirit will give you life and peace

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