Home Christian Writings Supporting the Trinity Doctrine? – The Trinity Doctrine 1 John 5:20 Page 15

1 John 5:20

Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Read this part slowly:

“And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ.”

The true one mentioned in this verse, has to be the Father. Why?

Because it clearly says, We are in HIM who is true, by being in HIS son.

Who is the son mentioned here? It is Jesus Christ.

Who is the one who is true that has a son? Well that has to be the Father because Jesus never had a son did he? If you hold the view that Jesus is the one true God in this verse, then you have to conclude that Jesus has a son called Jesus because the one who is true has a son called Jesus according to the verse.

So by this very simple, clear, and reasonable reading of the text, we can see that the Father is the one who is true and we are in the Father because we are in HIS son. That is the only way you can read this verse.

Do you need further proof? Well look at John 17:3:
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

As you can see, the only true God is not Jesus Christ here either because the only true God is said to have sent Jesus Christ just like 1 John 5:20 says.

The next verse supports these two preceding verses and teaches that Jesus is not God, rather, that he was sent by God as confirmed in these two verses above.

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

You have just been shown two or three witness verses that clearly state that God sent his son into the world and that this God who has a son is the only true God.

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Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 281 through 300 (of 1,982 total)
123…141516…9899100
  • Author
    Posts
  • March 21, 2012 at 12:09 pm#286546
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (david @ Mar. 21 2012,17:00)

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 21 2012,15:59)
    the apple is green. it is so delicious.

    1 John 5:20

    GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

    20We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.

    better luck next time boy


    Wow?

    I can do that too.  Watch:

    We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we now the real God.  We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ.  This God the Father is the real God and eternal life.

    The fact that your Bible inserts the words “Jesus Christ” a second time proves no more than me inserting “God the Father.”

    You do get that, right?


    Hi David,

    No, he doesn't, because I have pointed this out to him as well.

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus.
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    holycitybiblecode.org

    March 21, 2012 at 12:13 pm#286548
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 21 2012,18:42)

    Quote (david @ Mar. 21 2012,17:00)

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 21 2012,15:59)
    the apple is green. it is so delicious.

    1 John 5:20

    GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

    20We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.

    better luck next time boy


    Wow?

    I can do that too.  Watch:

    We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we now the real God.  We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ.  This God the Father is the real God and eternal life.

    The fact that your Bible inserts the words “Jesus Christ” a second time proves no more than me inserting “God the Father.”

    You do get that, right?

    I mean, you do know that they inserted that second “Jesus Christ” in there, don't you?

    The part you made bold…apparently that is your evidence.  The problem is, the part that matters in the part you made bold:  IT WAS ADDED!

    jammin,
    –You don't seem to understand burden of proof.  
    –You don't seem to know that your main arguments is based not on what the Bible said, but on something that someone added.
    –You also somehow don't understand that “Christ” means anointed one.
    –Nor do you understand that when a list of titles are presented, they do not necessitate that the second title is the definition of the first title.
    –Nor do you understand respect, which is odd given how little you yourself know.


    then make your own version
    hahaha

    :D


    Hi Jammin,

    They already have, it is called the N.W.T. (JW's) bible.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    March 21, 2012 at 2:00 pm#286562
    jammin
    Participant

    then use you NWT. find a verse that says that Christ is not the true GOD.
    give me the verse.

    give the verse that Christ said he is not the True GOD.

    christ is truly GOD! that is what the bible says

    March 21, 2012 at 2:49 pm#286571
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 22 2012,01:00)
    then use you NWT. find a verse that says that Christ is not the true GOD.
    give me the verse.

    give the verse that Christ said he is not the True GOD.

    christ is truly GOD! that is what the bible says


    Hi Jammin,

    That is the 'version' that Mike quotes John 1:1 from.
    I use the “AKJV Bible“, as it's the most accurate
    of all the English bibles we may choose from.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    March 21, 2012 at 4:37 pm#286598
    jammin
    Participant

    so you cant give me a verse that Christ said he is not called the true GOD? or he is not the true GOD?

    March 21, 2012 at 5:34 pm#286615
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,

    Let's try to avoid communication problems here; OK
    Please tell me, what point are you “trying” to make?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    March 21, 2012 at 5:36 pm#286616
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,

    Because the 'backwards speak' stuff isn't cutting it!

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus.
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    holycitybiblecode.org

    March 21, 2012 at 6:14 pm#286629
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,
    There are NO VERSES that say that Adam, Cyrus or Elizabeth ARE NOT GOD.
    Does such thinking lead to progress?

    March 22, 2012 at 3:56 am#286742
    jammin
    Participant

    nick,

    the topic here is Christ not Adam etc.

    Adam is created by God. Christ is GOD. he has the form of GOD. he is the ONLY SON OF GOD

    now, can you give me a verse that says Christ is not called the true GOD?

    edj,
    Christ is GOD. truly God. that's what the bible says

    March 22, 2012 at 3:58 am#286744
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,
    So the Word HAD the form of God.
    But HAS means the same to you?

    March 22, 2012 at 4:00 am#286745
    NickHassan
    Participant

    hi Jammin,
    Having the form of
    means
    IS
    to you?

    March 22, 2012 at 6:17 am#286749
    david
    Participant

    Jammin:

    “the mind of the writer says that the father is the true GOD”

    No one disagrees with this, so you can stop saying it.  We agree.

    “the son is also called the true GOD.”

    In this verse?  Where?  Please explain.  Please explain why your Bible inserts the words “Jesus Christ” when they don't exist in the original writing?  Were the original writers right, or was the translation team that added those words right?  Please answer this.

    “believe it or not.”

    Ya, so, I'm asking you to explain.  I know what you believe.  I can very clearly tell you why I don't believe it.  I'm asking for you to have a conversation and attempt to prove to me that what you believe is correct.  Simply repeating that “the son is also called the true GOD” does not prove anything.  I can repeat the opposite.  But what does actual scripture say?

    “no verse that says that christ is not GOD.”

    And there is no verse that says Christ is not Santa Clause either.  You have no concept of what the word “proof” or “argumentation” mean.

    “you cant read any verse in the bible that christ said “i am NOT GOD””

    Again, as I said, you also can't read any verse in the Bible that Christ said: “I am not Santa.”  But, I'm certain you would laugh if I said that Christ is Santa.  Why?  Because there is no actual proof.  Proving or disproving a negative is not what is required.  It is up to YOU to prove that this verse proves what you claim.  

    “what we can read is Christ is GOD! truly GOD! he became flesh!”

    Are you reading that from 1 John 5:20?  If so, where does it say anything like that?  I'm talking about what was actually written and not what the GW translators added.

    March 22, 2012 at 6:22 am#286751
    david
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 20 2012,21:33)
    that is one of the meaning of the term Christ.

    i am not saying that the anointed is not the meaning of christ

    what i am saying is Christ also means Son of GOD!

    Χριστός,n  \{}
    1) the Son of God  2) anointed

    study the verse well mat 16.16


    Jammin, you have never actually attempted to explain WHY you believe this. You just simply keep saying: “Mat 16:16.”

    Well, I've read Mat 16:16. It gives no indication what so ever of what you are claiming. If it does prove what you are claiming, why don't you try to put that proof into words? I think you don't try to do this because you can't.

    the truth is, if I say: “Ed is smart, a true word smith,” it doesn't mean that “smart” means 'word smith.”

    Is there any dictionary anywhere or any work of writing that tries to claim that “Christ” means “son of God”?

    March 22, 2012 at 6:25 am#286752
    david
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 20 2012,22:36)
    believe it or not.

    peter said that
    16and Simon Peter answering said, `Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.'


    Well, until you explain why you think this verse is saying that “Christ” means 'son of God,' I'm guessing everyone on here, and perhaps everyone everywhere will not believe it. Why would they? That's not what it says.

    He was asked who Jesus was. He answered saying: You are the Christ, the Son of God.

    He could have said: You are the Lord, the Christ, the Son of God, etc…

    March 22, 2012 at 6:28 am#286753
    david
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 21 2012,13:58)
    they do not have the form of GOD! do not compare them with Christ.
    do not make people fool.
    job 1.6 those are angels!

    it is very clear that your christ is not truly GOD mike.

    make your own version :D


    Job 1:6 talks about the “sons of God” and you correctly identify them as “angels.”

    If Christ means Son of God, does that make the “sons of God” (angels) Christ? hmmm.

    Or, maybe, son(s) of God means the Son(s) of God and Christ means “anointed one” as normal logic, and dictionaries suggest.

    March 22, 2012 at 6:32 am#286755
    david
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 21 2012,18:42)

    Quote (david @ Mar. 21 2012,17:00)

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 21 2012,15:59)
    the apple is green. it is so delicious.

    1 John 5:20

    GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

    20We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.

    better luck next time boy


    Wow?

    I can do that too.  Watch:

    We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we now the real God.  We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ.  This God the Father is the real God and eternal life.

    The fact that your Bible inserts the words “Jesus Christ” a second time proves no more than me inserting “God the Father.”

    You do get that, right?

    I mean, you do know that they inserted that second “Jesus Christ” in there, don't you?

    The part you made bold…apparently that is your evidence.  The problem is, the part that matters in the part you made bold:  IT WAS ADDED!

    jammin,
    –You don't seem to understand burden of proof.  
    –You don't seem to know that your main arguments is based not on what the Bible said, but on something that someone added.
    –You also somehow don't understand that “Christ” means anointed one.
    –Nor do you understand that when a list of titles are presented, they do not necessitate that the second title is the definition of the first title.
    –Nor do you understand respect, which is odd given how little you yourself know.


    then make your own version
    hahaha

    :D


    Ya, I've seen you say: “make your own version” to several people.

    jammin, you seem to say this whenever you have no idea how to respond to someone or can't answer their questions because it would show the weakness of your beliefs.

    I simply want to discuss what you believe. You don't seem to discuss what you believe but only want to repeat what you believe without discussing it or facing the truth of what that scripture actually says and doesn't say.

    That scripture, if you look at the original writings, without the added words from the GW Bible, it won't seem nearly as clear that what you believe is true.

    March 22, 2012 at 6:35 am#286756
    david
    Participant

    Quote (david @ Mar. 21 2012,15:48)
    QUESTION:

    Where in 1 John 5:20 are we told that Christ is God?


    Jammin, I am pretty sure you never answered this.

    I don't think you actually have any desire to discuss this scripture.

    Do you?

    I actually like this scripture and so I like to discuss it.

    Why do you refuse to discuss this scripture?

    Where in this scripture does it say what you claim it says? Please point it out. Please quote the exact words. If you can't do this, then it seems you have no case and are just expressing your own opinions and not what the bible says.

    March 22, 2012 at 6:44 am#286757
    david
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 21 2012,18:43)
    bec the translation does not support your belief you will ignore it.

    give me any single translation that says that Christ is not called the true GOD.

    that is your assingment boy.


    What?

    I have no idea who you are talking to, but if it is me, I am not ignoring it.

    I WOULD LOVE TO DISCUSS IT.

    YOU have no desire to do this, but simply keep repeating the same 4 phrases over and over without thinking about them or how they are connected to this scripture.

    Jammin, you seem to be discussing 2 somewhat separate things at the same time:

    1. You believe that 1 John 5:20 says that Christ is the true God. (Yet, you are incapable of explaining why or discussing this scripture or answering questions concerning your belief.)

    2. You believe that Christ is the true God and seem to want to base this belief on the idea that no scripture exists that says “Christ is not the true God.”

    Number 2 is absurd. I have difficulty understanding how you can not see the fallaciousness of that line of thought. There is also no scripture that says: “Peter is not the true God.”
    Hey, Jammin, Peter is the true God and my proof is that there is no scripture that says he isn't! Ridiculousness. Yet, that is what you are doing.

    Of course I can find no such scripture, but that proves about as much as you not being able to find a scripture that says: “Peter is not the true God.”

    Give me any single translation that says that Peter is not called the true God. You can't. Yet, it proves nothing. Nor does your “assignment,” for the exact same reason.

    And, on the translation, I tend to like Biblecc and look at many translations and sometimes consider the Greek.

    you seem unable to answer why the GW translation inserted extra words into the text. If you want to argue that 1 John 5:20 proves something you may, but it's hard to argue that it proves it because of the added words of the GW.

    March 22, 2012 at 6:46 am#286758
    david
    Participant

    We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we now the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This God the Father is the real God and eternal life.

    The fact that your Bible inserts the words “Jesus Christ” a second time proves no more than me inserting “God the Father.”

    You do get that, right?

    March 22, 2012 at 6:52 am#286759
    david
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2012,05:14)
    Hi Jammin,
    There are NO VERSES that say that Adam, Cyrus or Elizabeth ARE NOT GOD.
    Does such thinking lead to progress?


    “nick,

    the topic here is Christ not Adam etc.”

    Ok, JAMMIN,
    then can you give me a scripture that says: “CHRIST is not Michael the Archangel”?

    I guess Christ IS Michael the Archangel because try as you might, you simply can't find a scripture that says he is not.

    Go ahead.  Check every Bible!  I dare you to find a verse in any Bible in the world that says: “christ is not Michael the Archangel.”

    So there you have it.  I have just ended the years of debate over whether Christ is Michael the archangel.  We can finally end those 7 threads.  Great….unless anyone can find a verse that says: “Christ is NOT Michael the archangel.”?  

    I'll wait.  Find the verse.  I double dare you.  And before you start saying how crazy that is, or saying that Jesus isn't an angel, note that I am proving this the same way you seem to be proving that Christ is the true God–because the Bible doesn't say he isn't.  Same logic.  Same bizarre, twisted, false logic.  

    If you can't find such a verse, then I have to assume by now that you believe that Jesus is indeed Michael the archangel.

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