If Jesus is divine, does that make him God?

God’s nature is divine his essence is spirit

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Divine nature pertaining to Jesus Christ and the children of God

But scripture says that we can share in God’s nature so all the more Jesus Christ who after all has a body now, that we will eventually have. It is written that we will be like him. If Jesus Christ is God because he has divine nature, then why aren’t we God by reason of participating in the same divine nature?

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Connecting the dots, most will agree that we are not God and never will we be God. So divine nature doesn’t qualify you as being God himself.

Was Jesus God or a man?

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Jesus existing in the form of God doesn’t make him God, rather that his nature is from God. A good explanation of a son of God. We also read that Jesus emptied himself, but of what did he empty himself? Many think it was his foreknowledge and divine nature because he took on flesh or human nature and became a man being born like us. He started life as a baby, grew to a child, then an adult. We do know right now that Jesus is at the right-hand of God in the glory he had with him even before creation itself. So it seems he was with God, came to Earth in an empty state, and is back with God in the glory he had with him before the universe existed.

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Conclusion

Divine nature doesn’t make you God just as having a spirit doesn’t make you God. Yes God is divine, and He is spirit. But angels are spirits and they are not God and we can share in divine nature and we are not God. What we do know is this:

Jesus Christ existed with God before the world began as the Word. While he shared in divine nature with God, he emptied himself and became a man, even a baby who had to learn how to walk and talk like the rest of us. Providing the perfect sacrifice for our sins through his death, he is now with God at his righthand side in the glory he had with him before the world began. Now we who are in the flesh can be born of the Spirit and participate in this divine nature because Christ died for us.

We need to understand that there is a difference between being God who has divine nature and being a son who shares or inherits divine nature. Receiving the divine nature of God is a good description of being a son and chief among the sons of God is the Son of God himself. He reflects the fullness of God’s nature and glory in visible form from the invisible God.

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 41 through 60 (of 448 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #791945
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    You seemed to imply that Jesus being one with God made him one and the same as God.

    Since Jesus wants the same relationship between us and the Father and him would that make us GOD?

    #791947
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl

    He is not God the Father – yet He is God, and there are not two…so how do you work that out..?

    – He was with God…He was God..(revelation).

     

    The Word was God is what scripture says

    But you change that and say the Word IS God.?

    #791948
    DavidL
    Participant

    The Word was God is what scripture says

    But you change that and say the Word IS God.?

    Jesus descended from the Father (with God, was God) and became a man – now He has been exalted back into the presence of God with the glory He had with the Father before the world began… isn’t this what Scripture says…?

     

    You seemed to imply that Jesus being one with God made him one and the same as God.

    Since Jesus wants the same relationship between us and the Father and him would that make us GOD?

    If you can say (as Jesus did), that you are one with the Father, then I’ll believe Jesus was nothing more than an ordinary human, as you say..whom God spoke through the same way He spoke through the prophets

     

    And if you really believe that this oneness Jesus prayed for has somehow been accomplished on earth, then please enlighten us with some examples of this…and perhaps prove that my perception of your motives in using this verse (as a deceptive and meaningless ploy), is wrong.

    #791949
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Are you trying to prove Jesus failed in prayer?

     

    #791950
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Why are suspicious about motives?

    #791951
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Davidl,

    Did the apostles prove their unity in the Spirit with God by continuing to do miracles?

    Peter and Paul raised the dead.

    Would you not accept this evidence

    #791952
    DavidL
    Participant

    evidence of what – that they and the Father are one..? when did they say that..?

    #791954
    DavidL
    Participant

    Why are suspicious about motives?

     

    ..because it’s the same borrowed argument t8 uses..

    #791955
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    The Pharisees persecuted Jesus and always tried to find fault with him. They disagreed with Jesus weird view of scripture and accused him of being in a cult. They eventually proved instrumental in Jesus execution.

    Paul was a Pharisee and he repented and became one of the greatest men of God, so Pharisees can change. For Paul the change happened when he realised that he was persecuting a risen Jesus Christ.

    So it is today. Pharisees haven’t changed and Jesus said that those of him would suffer in the same way as him. If they did it to him, they would do it to us.

    But to be persecuted and accused because we espouse Jesus teachings and follow him, is a privilege.

    For us there is one God the Father and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. Our Father is the one true God and the one he made Lord is his son. We will continue to teach the foundation of the Church and we know that the Gates of Hell will never prevail against it. Amen.

    #791956
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    It is the Holy Spirit that did the miracles through Jesus

    and through the Apostles.

    That is unity

    #791957
    carmel
    Participant

     

    So who is The Most High, is it Jesus or his Father?

    bodhitharta,

    The Father is always the most high AS A SPIRIT!

    The Son is also the most high but BOTH AS A SPIRIT AND FLESH BEING.

    AFTER THE GLORIFICATION AND UNIFICATION OF BOTH JESUS AS MAN, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD.

    SUPERIOR THEN THE FATHER !

    THE FATHER DOES NOT POSSESS THE FLESH SUBSTANCE HIMSELF YET!

    HE WOULD BE ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, WHEN HE WOULD BE ALL IN ALL !

    BUT THE FATHER,THROUGH JESUS’GLORIFICATION ENRICHED HIMSELF TO THE EXTENT, THAT HE IS HAVING AN ENDLESS REST!

    HE ACCOMPLISHED HIS KINGDOM TO BE , DECLARED SO FROM THE CROSS,  AND IT’S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME FOR THE PROCESS TO BE CONCLUDED!AND ONE MILLION YEARS IS EQUIVALENT TO ONE SECOND FOR GOD!

    The Father could never and will never manifest himself since he was and still is a unique irresistible spirit!

    JESUS IS GOD’S MANIFESTATION! GOD’S SUPERIORITY OVER THE ENTIRE UNIVERSES! AND ONLY IN,AND BY  JESUS EVERYTHING IS SUSTAINED! THE FATHER CANNOT SUSTAIN THE EVIL IN EXISTENCE, UNLESS THROUGH HIS SON, “THE WORD” FROM THE VERY BEGINNING!

    Satan took advantage of this rather a kind of handicap for God, so he proclaimed himself as god of the world unless God manifested himself in the truth as man on earth! TO BE PRECISE:

    GOD’S SPIRIT WITHIN A FLESH BODY! the way Satan was in full authority, BUT THROUGH THE” WORD” FROM WITHIN HIMSELF on earth till Jesus came!

    But to do so God,SINCE HE IS OMNIPOTENT could in no way contain the least element/process of earth,since earth was Satan’s,

    and an earthly man EVEN DIVINE WOULD BE in debt to Satan! WHICH IS PURE NONSENSE!

    Therefore could not meet the criteria!

    SO JESUS WAS THROUGHOUT HEAVENLY DIVINE BEING BOTH IN FLESH AND SPIRIT,THE ESSENCE AND THE GENUINE SUBSTANCE OF GOD THE FATHER!

    SO JESUS’ FLESH AND BLOOD BODY “THE WORD” CONTAINED LIFE IN ITSELF, NOT LIKE OURS DEAD THROUGH SIN, AND SUBJECT TO SATAN, DECLARED BY JESUS:

    THE SON HAS LIFE IN HIMSELF AND

    HE HAS NOTHING IN ME

    HOW ON EARTH THE THE MOST POWERFUL IRRESISTIBLE SPIRIT OF GOD ALMIGHTY COULD ABIDE IN SOMETHING LESS?

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #791959
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Yes we both enjoy defending the integrity of scripture against the vast tide of human alternatives offered.

    We represent no denomination as God is nondenominational.

    We hope to snatch brands from the fire

    #791962
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi C,

    WHICH IS PURE NONSENSE!

    #791963
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    The unity that Jesus described is unity in the Spirit.

    The apostles demonstrated the same spiritual unity with God and His Son.

    #791964
    sonofGod
    Participant

    Jesus Christ did not pre exist except in the foreknowledge of God I Peter 1:20 ASV

    who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but was manifested at the end of times for your sake,

    God speaks of those which be not as though they were. Romans 4:17

    (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

    God did the creating. His son was the one for whom He created. God created with His son in mind. God foreknew Adam and Eve’s sin and thus planned ahead for a redeemer.

    He had to provide a sinless man to redeem mankind. That man was Jesus Christ the son of God.

    To be just and legal, only another man could redeem mankind.

    By the man Jesus Christ did the gift of God’s grace, salvation, become available.

    Romans 5:15

    But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

    #791965
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi SOG,

    The man Jesus was conceived and born as a son of Adam[Jb 25]

    Jesus was tempted in every way we are.[heb 4]

    He was an overcomer.[rev 3]

     

    Found clean at the Jordan he was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power.[Acts 10]

    We can follow such a man.

    #791966
    carmel
    Participant

     

    And Jesus prayed that we also would be one with himself and the Father.

    That does not make us God so what is the point you are making

    Nick,

    AN ANALOGUE:

    PETER IS THE CLOWN NAMED JOJO IN A PARTICULAR SHOW,

    SOME KNOWS HIM AS PETER, AND SOME KNOWS HIM AS JOJO! SO

    PETER IS JOJO, OR

    PETER WORKS AS A CLOWN NAMED JOJO, OR EVEN STILL:

    PETER’S JOB IS TO DRESS AS A CLOWN AND MAKE PEOPLE LAUGH UNDER THE NAME OF JOJO!

    THEN I WILL ASK:

    WHO IS THE CLOWN?

    THE ANSWER WOULD DEFINITELY BE:

    PETER! WAIT, WAIT JOJO!!

    SO WE ARE BACK TO SQUARE ONE!

    THE CLOWN JOJO IS PETER, AND PETER IS JOJO THE CLOWN OR

    PETER IS JOJO, AND JOJO IS PETER

    SO PETER AND THE CLOWN JOJO AND SO ON ARE ONE SAME PERSON!

    BUT PETER IS NOT THE CLOWN IN THE TRUTH SINCE THE CLOWN IS JUST A FABRIC COSTUME WITHOUT LIFE, AND PETER IS A HUMAN BEING IN FLESH AND BLOOD FULL OF LIFE! SO THERE’S NOTHING IN COMMON BETWEEN THEM!

    NOW WHEN WE APPLY THE SAME ANALOGUE TO JESUS AND THE FATHER, WE ARE AWARE THAT:

    WHILE JOJO THE CLOWN IS A MERE FABRIC COSTUME, AND PETER IS A HUMAN BEING IN FLESH AND BLOOD,

    JESUS IS THE SAME SUBSTANCE, AND THE GENUINE SPIRIT OF THE FATHER!

    SO THIS MEANS THAT JESUS ON HIS OWN HAS LIFE, ALTHOUGH SEPARATED FROM THE FATHER AS AN ENTITY!

    WHICH THE FABRIC COSTUME DON’T HAVE!

    SO THE ONENESS OF THE FATHER AND JESUS, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ONENESS OF PETER AND JOJO THE CLOWN!

    NOW WHEN WE APPLY THE ANALOGUE TO OURSELVES WE ARE AWARE THAT:

    OUR FLESH AND BLOOD BODY IS EQUIVALENT TO THE FABRIC COSTUME DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT HAS NO LIFE IN ITSELF, IT DIES WHEN THE SPIRIT LEAVE THE BODY!

    SO THE ONENESS BETWEEN OURSELVES AND JESUS IS MORE OR LESS THE SAME AS THE FABRIC COSTUME AND PETER!

    IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ONENESS OF JESUS AND THE FATHER!

    BUT ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD IN THE WEDDING OF THE LAMB, WE WOULD RECEIVE A NEW BODY DIRECTLY FROM THE FATHER, AND THIS BODY WOULD MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR GOD THE FATHER TO BE ALL IN ALL,

    THEN WE WOULD BE IN THE TRUTH IN THE ONENESS OF GOD!

    WE WOULD BE GODS IN THE TRUTH!

    AND THIS BODY IS

    THE BRIDE!

    AND THE BRIDE IS:

    “THE WORD” JESUS, THE ETERNAL LIFE, WHICH WAS IN THE FATHER!

    BEFORE THE VERY BEGINNING!

    and we would be totally made ALL

    BY, IN, AND FOR “THE WORD” IN SPIRIT, SOUL AND FLESH ONE ENTITY IN A TRIUNE FORM OF GOD!

    John 3:29 He that HAS THE BRIDE, is the THE BRIDEGROOM:…….

    AND JESUS’ UNIQUE FLESH AND BLOOD BODY, IS

    “THE WORD”

    THE TRINITY OF GOD,

    THE GODHEAD

    IN FLESH AND BLOOD!

    THE BRIDEGROOM

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #791968
    DavidL
    Participant

    NickHassan,

    So you admit to using unoriginal arguments…

     

    The unity that Jesus described is unity in the Spirit.

    The apostles demonstrated the same spiritual unity with God and His Son.

    ..if what you say is a true representation of the Scriptures, then you should be able to answer my original question – What apostle of Christ ever said – or could have said, “I and the Father are one.”…?

    #791973
    DavidL
    Participant

    t8

    I know you hold the vainglorious notion of being persecuted for Jesus.. when in fact every true follower of Christ would run from your teaching, as they would an impostor who has not the Spirit, but teaches according to his own natural wisdom..

    Professing to teach truth – you have fallen into false doctrine… denying the very reality of Jesus Christ (foundational truth of the Christian faith), you twist God’s Holy Word to your own confusion… refusing to let go of your man-made deception you continually resist the truth just like those old stiff-necked ancestors before you..

    Christ came to destroy the works of the devil, and all those who are His also reject and hate what is false…especially when it concerns the Person of our Lord Jesus Christ Himself…!!!

    #791974
    DavidL
    Participant

    Jesus Christ did not pre exist except in the foreknowledge of God

    This is where you are wrong..

    John openly declares He was in the beginning with God.

    Jesus prayed, And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world began.

    Just a foreknowledge…?

     

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