If Jesus is divine, does that make him God?

God’s nature is divine his essence is spirit

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Divine nature pertaining to Jesus Christ and the children of God

But scripture says that we can share in God’s nature so all the more Jesus Christ who after all has a body now, that we will eventually have. It is written that we will be like him. If Jesus Christ is God because he has divine nature, then why aren’t we God by reason of participating in the same divine nature?

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Connecting the dots, most will agree that we are not God and never will we be God. So divine nature doesn’t qualify you as being God himself.

Was Jesus God or a man?

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Jesus existing in the form of God doesn’t make him God, rather that his nature is from God. A good explanation of a son of God. We also read that Jesus emptied himself, but of what did he empty himself? Many think it was his foreknowledge and divine nature because he took on flesh or human nature and became a man being born like us. He started life as a baby, grew to a child, then an adult. We do know right now that Jesus is at the right-hand of God in the glory he had with him even before creation itself. So it seems he was with God, came to Earth in an empty state, and is back with God in the glory he had with him before the universe existed.

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Conclusion

Divine nature doesn’t make you God just as having a spirit doesn’t make you God. Yes God is divine, and He is spirit. But angels are spirits and they are not God and we can share in divine nature and we are not God. What we do know is this:

Jesus Christ existed with God before the world began as the Word. While he shared in divine nature with God, he emptied himself and became a man, even a baby who had to learn how to walk and talk like the rest of us. Providing the perfect sacrifice for our sins through his death, he is now with God at his righthand side in the glory he had with him before the world began. Now we who are in the flesh can be born of the Spirit and participate in this divine nature because Christ died for us.

We need to understand that there is a difference between being God who has divine nature and being a son who shares or inherits divine nature. Receiving the divine nature of God is a good description of being a son and chief among the sons of God is the Son of God himself. He reflects the fullness of God’s nature and glory in visible form from the invisible God.

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Discussion

This topic has 448 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 6 months, 3 weeks ago by Proclaimer.

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June 10, 2013 at 8:47 pm#781904
Steve
Guest
Concerning the preexistence of the Messiah Yahushuah (Jesus), just as YHWH knew the number of hairs on my head, I preexisted in the Father’s mind. This is the way in which the Hebrew people looked at preexistence and that was the way it was expressed in the Torah. We have to look at it in the same way. Also, the word LOGOS translated “Word” also means plan or intent of the mind. All new testament translations come from Greek writings and as such speak from a different perspective than the Hebrew and Aramaic spoken and as such cannot convey all of their nuances. Remember that all things were made according to YHWH’s plan and intent. Yahushuah lived in YHWH’s mind prior to his earthly existence as his implement of salvation before the beginning since YHWH didn’t do anything without a plan.
June 10, 2013 at 9:43 pm#781905
Admin
Keymaster
Jesus said, “before Abraham, I am”. I am means to exist. And while God is said to be “I am that I am”, the ever-existing one, Jesus was not claiming to be the “I am” of the OT, but simply that he existed. We make the same declaration many times when people ask us “Are you Joe Blogs” and you reply, “I am”.

And given the context that Abraham lived in the past, Jesus was being asked how old he was. In English this equates to “I have been” or “I have been existing” since it is existence that is being spoken of. Thus, “I have been existing before Abraham” is what it is saying in the Greek and the given context.

Jesus answered your question with his own lips, so it is up to you to believe what he said.
June 11, 2013 at 5:05 am#781906
david schofield
Guest
is there someone that can get back to my comment from yesterday?
June 11, 2013 at 11:19 am#781907
Admin
Keymaster
It is there. You may have to reload the page to see it. It is below your comment. If you can read this comment, then you will be able to see the below comment.
December 20, 2013 at 6:43 pm#781908
Tariq Shakoor
Guest
I still don’t understand the whole notion that all creation came through Jesus Christ. This would mean that Jesus pre-existed, wouldn’t it?
December 20, 2013 at 10:08 pm#781909
Admin
Keymaster
Correct. He is the firstborn of all creation. He came directly from God and was not part of the creation process except when he partook of flesh to become like us to save us.

Let’s face it. Someone had to be first and whoever that was would be the firstborn of all creation. He would be blessed above all, and would know the Father more than any other since there would be God and the firstborn. All these qualities are described in scripture and are about Jesus Christ. Further, we are explicit told that God created all things through him. Thus he was the Word that was with God.

The second-century fathers certainly had this view. They saw him as the first work of the Father and was the Logos that was with God.
April 30, 2014 at 2:46 pm#781910
Saini Mateke
Guest
Now what do you say about Isaiah 9:6? It says Jesus is The Everlasting Father.
April 30, 2014 at 10:34 pm#781911
Admin
Keymaster
I believe that Ab is the word used here, the same word used in reference to Abraham or father Abraham. The Pharisees claimed their father was Abraham, so everlasting father would be an apt title to describe Yeshua who is not only greater than Abraham but everlastingly greater.
Clearly, Jesus is not the Heavenly Father, he is the son of the Heavenly Father.
April 30, 2014 at 11:01 pm#781912
DavidL
Participant
t8 downplays the significance of this verse to fit with his logical notions.. turning the very titles of Christ into nice little meaningless delusions that won’t conradict his corrupt teaching of Jesus as just another god.. like every other cult teaching that denies the triune nature of God
April 30, 2014 at 11:12 pm#781913
Admin
Keymaster
DavidL, are you suggesting then that Jesus is actually the Father then. Because he is either the Heavenly Father or not, and I say not. I then give an good explanation using the word AB and how it is also applied to Abraham. So if I am downplaying this, please provide proof that Jesus is not what I said, by showing me he is the Heavenly Father or some other explanation. This will be interesting.
May 1, 2014 at 5:06 pm#781914
DavidL
Participant
Well…you could spend your life writing books about it, or you could just say – JESUS IS GOD..!!!
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Take a fresh look at verses like, “If you have seen Me you have seen the Father,” and “Before Abraham was, I AM,” – “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”…etc
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and don’t beat up your brains about it, understanding Scripture is not a mental exercise – it is the work of the Spirit to reveal Truth…
May 1, 2014 at 11:55 pm#781915
Admin
Keymaster
You said, “t8 downplays the significance of this verse”.

You had no come back. So you concede that your comment was not a good one. Thank you and this proves that you are just in accuse mode now. This is what happened to the Pharisees. They tried to disprove Yeshua’s words and actions, and when he supported them all with scripture, they just falsely accused him in the end. Why be like them? You have the chance to be a better person DavidL. Don’t squander it.
May 2, 2014 at 12:01 am#781916
Admin
Keymaster
DavidL, you cherry pick verses that can be twisted to support your view, whereas I take the full counsel of scripture including these scriptures you have quoted.

The conclusion is that you obviously choose to view these scriptures in the way that supports your view, but then have to ignore the rest which BTW, is most. In other words, your evidence is the speck and you ignore the plank.

I honestly could not live like that myself. When my head hit the pillow each night, I would be worried about my view not agreeing with most scripture. ANd I would worry because I care about these things. Seriously, I could not live with myself.

Read these verses in good conscience with your understanding of a triune God. I bet you have to admit to yourself that each verse is broken. Question is, what will you do about it? Continue with the tradition of man, or be transformed by the word of God?
100 indisputable proof verses – The Trinity Doctrine
May 5, 2014 at 6:06 pm#781917
DavidL
Participant
your response confirms just how focused and dependent you are on logic to determine truth – actually you constantly reveal the nature of your error..yet continually deny it..(I think that’s called “Blindness”).
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You put forth a teaching based on your own carnal assumptions that denies one of the most major revelations of Scripture…then you call me a Pharisee for not accepting your deception…!?!
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lol I sleep very well at night thanks.
May 5, 2014 at 9:39 pm#781918
Admin
Keymaster
Logic confirms that there is one God and that there is one who was first to be with him. However, without resorting to logic, scripture confirms this to be so. So on scripture alone we have one God the Father, one true God who sent his son, and God and his son.

The truth is confirmed by many witnesses. You can attack the witnesses, but that will never change one iota of truth.
May 8, 2014 at 5:18 am#781919
DavidL
Participant
I can ALSO confirm to you that God sent His only Son…your argument misses the mark completely as Christ has MANY titles… but you deny the Scriptures where He is plainly called GOD..!!
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..BECAUSE you have taken issue with the Trinity doctrine and now interpret Scripture according to your own carnal reasoning..!!
May 24, 2014 at 9:23 pm#781920
Elysa Makayat
Guest
“I and the Father are one.” 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” (John 10:30-33) The Jews killed Jesus because they denied that Jesus was God in flesh. There is not any prior account of anyone in the Bible being killed for claiming to pre-exist if Jesus was merely claiming pre-existence.
John 8:56-59, “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” 57 The Jews therefore said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.” 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple.” Jesus was referring back to when Moses was at the burning bush and asked God what His name was. God said, “I AM that I AM. Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.” (Exodus 3:14).
May 25, 2014 at 2:46 am#781921
Admin
Keymaster
Your concerns are addressed in page:
Supporting the Trinity Doctrine – The Trinity Doctrine
June 22, 2014 at 7:42 am#781922
Peter
Guest
Hi, I’ve been a born again christian for 23y (not that that gives me any credence as I’m still discovering just how amazing Yehovah is) & I’ve always been taught about the 3 persons of the trinity. However in the last couple of years, after receiving a personal crushing from Yehovah, allowing my eye’s to be opened to more of His spirit & truth,I have done a lot of study for myself. So just a suggestion. Wherever you see the word LORD or GOD in all caps, replace it with the one true God’s actual name, Yehovah (or Yahweh if you prefer) then see how it fits with Jesus (actual name Yehoshua or Yeshua for short) being Yehovah. At this stage it seems to me they are not one & the same. Also the Holy Spirit (Ruach HaKodesh) is not a third person but is Yehovah’s spirit. Consider: Genesis 1:1 says ‘In the beginning God (Elohiym in the Hebrew, being a generic title, not His actual name), created the heaven & the earth. 1:3 then records ‘God said’ meaning He spoke using words (Yeshua is the word that became flesh) Compare that to John 1:1. Yeshua is Yehovah’s word which he spoke in the beginning to create everything so Yeshua (Yehovah’s word) was with Yehovah in the beginning, was used to create everything & as Yehovah’s spoken word, effectively is from Yehovah in that he is Yehovah’s voice / spoken command / Torah. However Yehovah’s word is not Yehovah Himself but is his truth. When the word was made flesh he still remains Yehovah’s truth, a separate entity to Yehovah Himself (just as the rest of His creation is separate) but as His word / truth Yeshua has all the authority of Yehovah. From our fleshly perspective Yeshua is a separate entity to Yehovah, is subject to Yehovah (as is the Ruach HaKodesh which always has been & always will remain spirit). Also I recommend you look into the Hebrew wedding model where the father (Yehovah) chooses the bride (ekklesia / church) for His son (Yeshua) & the son’s best friend / best man (Holy spirit / Ruach HaKodesh) helps the bride to learn how to get ready for / please her betrothed when He returns for her.
Blessings to all who seek Him in Spirit AND truth
July 17, 2014 at 4:36 pm#781923
Wakeup
Participant
That was a good and clear explanation of the son of God,but failed to address; who the Word of God was before His birth.
He was not the Son of God before His birth.
Before He was made flesh.
The Word was with God and the Word was God.
We need more detail.
wakeup.
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