Home Christian Writings What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine Page 3

What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God.
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’.
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Let’s take a look at what different persons or beings believed about who Jesus Christ of Nazareth really was.

The foundation of the Catholic Church (&  most  Protestant churches)

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons make up one God. But rather than each being one-third of God, each person is co-equal and co-eternal, and 100% God

Now compare the above to what others in scripture confess about the identity and role of Jesus Christ.

Demons

Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. (Luke 4:41)

“What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me.”
For he said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He said to him, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Nowhere do demons say Jesus is God. Instead they knew that he was the son of God.

Satan

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Nowhere is it written that Satan calls Jesus God. Rather he too knows that Jesus is the son of God.

Roman centurion

“Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)

Among this centurion, all the other onlookers, those that heard the words of Jesus, and even those that only heard about him, none of them ever said that Jesus was God, Instead they said he was either mad, a false prophet, a true prophet, Elijah, John the Baptist, the messiah, and the son of God. For the centurion to utter these true words, it must have been obvious that Jesus was claiming to be the son of God, to his mind at least.

Peter

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, (Matthew 16:17-18)

If you were given the opportunity from Jesus to answer the same question from Jesus, “who am I”, would your answer be as Peter or would it instead be “you are God”. If it is the latter, do you not think it at least strange that Peter didn’t take this opportunity to say that Jesus was God like you would? I mean, do you know more than Peter? Surely if the foundation of the Church were really the Trinity, then Peter would have said that Jesus was God and part of the Trinity and then Jesus would have built his Church on that. Instead what we clearly see is that the foundation was built on the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

Peter clearly acknowledges that God is the Heavenly Father and that he is the God of Jesus. This is quite different to the Trinity Doctrine which confesses that Jesus is God and part of a Triune God. Nowhere is it written that Peter said or taught that Jesus Christ is God.

John

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)

The Book of John is said to be the book that teaches the Trinity. After all, most consider John 1:1 to be the cornerstone of the Trinity Doctrine. Yet the truth is that the whole point of the Book of John was to believe what John said above, Is it not strange then that men say that John was teaching the Trinity when John himself says that his book was written so that you would believe  that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.

John also wrote in the first verse of the Book of Revelation the following:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Revelation 1:1)

Clearly God and Jesus are different. And John gave a warning about this book.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19)

If you believe that the Book of Revelation teaches Jesus is God or part of the Trinity, then you are clearly adding to these words of this book.

Paul

Paul’s creed is as follows:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Notice that Paul says for US, there is ONE God the Father and ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. So why is it then that many others basically say, for THEM, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit. Surely this is a departure from the truth.

In case you think this is just a difficult translation, Paul basically repeats his creed here:

there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:4)

Where in Paul’s creed is the Trinity? Where in Paul’s creed is Jesus is God. Clearly according to our brother Paul, Jesus is the Lord and the Son. And to show you that Lord is different to God, I present you with the words of Peter:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

So Paul and Peter demonstrate that Paul was an avid teacher of Jesus being the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord and that it was God who made Jesus Lord. Nowhere does Paul teach that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Gabriel

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:32-35)

God’s messenger Gabriel, tell us who Jesus is. Nowhere in scripture does Gabriel or any other angel state that Jesus is God or part of the Trinity. He even forecasts that he will be called the Son of the Most High. Who is the Most High then? Certainly not Jesus because he is his son of the Most High.

Jesus

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)

To those who won’t listen to Peter, John, or Paul, surely they will listen to the words of Jesus? And if anyone knew who Jesus was it would surely be Jesus himself. So what does Jesus say about God and himself? He states that the following truth is eternal life. And what truth is that? Is it the Trinity as many would have you believe? Is it that Jesus is God? No, it is that the Father is the only true God and that the only true God sent Jesus Christ into the world.

Do we believe what Jesus said, or shall we believe the cleverly devised fables of men and doctrines of demons which seems to be the majority’s opinion on this subject.

The Father

“This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.” (Mark 9:7)

Notice that the highest authority in existence (the Father) did not say that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. He never even hinted at such an idea. If you or anyone else rejects Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus words above, then will you listen to the Father?

So what should your confession be?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.. (1 John 2:22)

Clearly, Jesus is the messiah and the son of God. To believe otherwise is of the antichrist spirit. Replacing this with a doctrine that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity is clearly wrong. Believing this and adding it as a requirement is even worse. Yet many churches have done this very thing by making the Trinity Doctrine the foundation of their church. In scripture we clearly see that the true Church is the Body of Christ and this Church is built on the truth that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Not the Trinity as many expect.

Now that we can see from scripture who Jesus really is, what should be our confession right now? It should be that Jesus Christ is Lord.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge 
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

So why not start today. Instead of confessing that Jesus Christ is God, why not confess the truth instead, that Jesus Christ is Lord, the son of God, and the messiah. If you truly believe that, then you believe correctly regarding who Jesus is and this is important because it is the Father who has revealed the son to us.

Discussion

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  • September 17, 2013 at 6:37 pm#776821
    DavidL
    Participant

    in the end I cannot really expect that you will, or even can, acknowledge your error, because, like the Pharisees of old, you have built up for yourself a kingdom of false theology – you have too much to lose……
    –
    what I do expect, is that you are really laying the foundation for your own religious cult (which again of course you would deny..but time will tell)..
    –
    Remember – teachers are held to a higher degree of accountability, because you will influence the eternal outcome of others..thinking you are enlightening people – when really you are leading them astray..
    –
    “But evil men and IMPOSTORS will proceed from bad to worse, DECEIVING AND BEING DECEIVED. You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them..” – 2 Timothy 3:13-14

    September 18, 2013 at 1:18 am#776822
    Admin
    Keymaster

    You are absolutely entitled your view of course. And the site promotes free speech. Of course I disagree with your assessment, but it is your opinion and so I respect that.

    September 18, 2013 at 1:32 am#776823
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the ONLY true God and Jesus Christ whom HE has sent.

    I believe this and this is my teaching.

    Yet you want me to believe, “This is eternal life, that you may know that Jesus is the one true God”.

    So which one is human reasoning and which one is just pure scripture?

    yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    I believe this and this is my teaching.

    Yet you want me to believe, “There is one God the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit

    So which one is human reasoning and which one is just pure scripture?

    Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

    I believe this and this is my teaching.

    Yet you want me to believe that “the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is not God because he is God.”

    So which one is human reasoning and which one is just pure scripture?

    there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

    I believe this and this is my teaching.

    Yet you want me to believe that there is one Body, One Spirit…One Lord, the Father, Lord the Son, Lord the Spirit, and one God the Father, one God the Son, one God the Spirit.

    So which one is human reasoning and which one is just pure scripture?

    How more obvious does it need to be?

    Remember to take the log out of your eye before telling me to remove a speck.

    September 19, 2013 at 12:17 am#776824
    2besee
    Participant

    David,
    You say a lot of good things and I agree. Apart from one thing: be careful not to judge dreams and visions and revelations.

    T8,
    Peoples theology in christology matters not. Trinitarian, Arian, whatever. BUT, be careful of Arian beliefs, that you do not deny the spirit (more on that soon).

    I am not trinitarian, I am not Arian. I have my own beliefs, but I do not or will not teach them or preach them to other believers. We are called to save the lost.

    Despite my differences, I was raised in a Christian church, baptized at 15, lost for decades after, then found and saved in my 30s. What drew me back, was watching a television sermon by a trinitarian evangelist. Then a Catholic friend, gifted in discernment, healing, and deliverance against the enemy. She walked with God.

    My parents are now Catholic, and again it matters not, and my beliefs matter not to them, they are just happy I am saved, and I know they will be in heaven.

    See, I can be with a trinitarian and feel the spirit in them. I can hear a sermon by a trinitarian, and be moved spiritually to tears.

    I can also easily discern hypocracy and deceit, and it upsets me, in trinitarians or arians, it matters not their theology, but its what’s within them.

    In my small town, one day I saw a stranger, Indian, wearing a long coat and a big cross around his neck. I was drawn to him. Fellow Christian traveler. His theology mattered not. His cross told it all.

    In town the other day, Christians handing out pamphlets about Jesus’ love (big tough Maoris!), God bless them! They are being fruitful, saving the lost, just as Jesus commissioned.

    Yes, JWs door knock, but they deny the spirit, and the power of God. Of such we are told to keep away. They are modern day arians.

    Elitism, seperation from the body, bitterness, it its not healthy, nor fruitful.

    God is spirit, and is not explainable by our minds, but is spiritually perceived. God just ‘is’ God.

    I believe you have lost discernment. Sorry but that is what I see.

    September 19, 2013 at 1:47 am#776825
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Wondering, I am glad you say that you are not a Trinitarian nor an Arian. Just a believer and follower of Christ. That is my stance too. For one says I am a follower of Paul, another a follower of Peter, and still another says, Athanasius or Arius. Need I say anymore concerning that.

    And I agree that our theology is not a salvation issue necessarily and that God can use a man who believes in one God the Father, and can work in another who says, one God the Father, Son, and Spirit, or even a man who believes that Jesus was originally from South America.

    But I disagree that doctrine is not important. It is still very important. The reason we struggle with it today and accept the traditions of men as if they are the commandments of God is because many of these traditions took root over the centuries when men were denied the scriptures. And because they have been with us for so long now, many accept them and cannot even imagine that there may be errors. But the Reformation should put that idea to rest because many important corrections came from the Reformation. Why do we think it should stop? If the Church was without spot and blemish, then the Lord might have taken her out of the world already.

    Now hear what our brother Paul has to say concerning this.

    Titus 1:9: He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

    1 Timothy 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

    2 John 1:9
    Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

    September 19, 2013 at 1:58 am#776826
    Admin
    Keymaster

    I tell you a truth. I get into trouble for saying, “That there is one God the Father, and one Lord the Lord Jesus Christ”. People dispute it when I say, that the only true God is the Father and it was the true God that sent Jesus into the world. And when I say that Jesus is not God, but the son of God who Jesus made messiah and Lord I get into really deep trouble.

    Yet I only repeat the words of Jesus himself and the words of Paul and Peter. If those words are divisive then that is not my fault, but Jesus, Peter and Paul. Something is seriously wrong if Christians attack or challenge me for repeating scripture.

    Jesus came to bring a sword. And remember that Jesus was opposed to the doctrines of the religious establishment of his time. He challenged centuries of doctrine for good reason. In fact he had more problem with them than anyone else it seems. It was even them that put him to death.

    This is why we read in John 16:2

    They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the hour cometh, that whosoever killeth you shall think that he offereth service unto God.

    Be not surprised then that many will hate you and persecute you. Even from among those that follow the religious status quo and centuries old Christian tradition. Because it is one thing to know tradition, the commandments of men, and the doctrine of devils, and quite another to let scripture teach you and be led by the Spirit of God.

    September 19, 2013 at 7:02 am#776827
    Admin
    Keymaster

    God is spirit, and is not explainable by our minds, but is spiritually perceived. God just ‘is’ God.
    I believe you have lost discernment. Sorry but that is what I see.

    With respect, truth is very important. Jesus built his Church on the truth of who he is. If we preach another Jesus, then we build our own Church. This is what has happened. To go with the flow and not restore the truth would be reckless. The Trinity is not the foundation, rather it is what we read in Matthew 16:13-20

    13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

    14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

    15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

    16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

    17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,b and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will bed bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will bee loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

    September 19, 2013 at 8:38 am#776828
    Admin
    Keymaster

    You said:

    Elitism, seperation from the body, bitterness, it its not healthy, nor fruitful.

    That is not the same as reinforcing what we are told to believe about our Lord and sharing that with the body, (Note: not one particular denomination but the body). Is Reformation elitism or a hunger for truth. Preaching the truth and repeating scripture is not elitist, it is what we should be doing. I think you underestimate the importance of what we are suppose to believe.

    Matthew 24:45-47
    45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

    September 19, 2013 at 8:43 am#776829
    Admin
    Keymaster

    You said:

    Plenty of people are saved without believing in your specific doctrine, and they have the fruit to show it.

    When I believed in the Trinity Doctrine God worked through me. He works through us despite our shortcomings and weaknesses. But we are suppose to move onto the meat of the Word too. And it is somewhat different for teachers. Many believe in the Trinity Doctrine but do not understand it and thus speak little of it. But teachers are judged stronger and so teachers need to be careful what they teach. If we stick with scripture we do well. If we embrace creeds and traditions that came later, then we can be led astray.

    September 19, 2013 at 12:31 pm#776830
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    hi

    when we come to God and Christ should we not come to them naked ???

    i mean spiritually naked ;not with old fashioned religion /believes from other men or other organizations ,i think it should be that way ;if not we are placing our opinions and faith in our own hands ,and so reject the written word of God ,as he presented to us ,

    September 19, 2013 at 6:56 pm#777105
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    in this i can not share your view DavidL,i wish i could but i can’t for i do not follow men views over Gods statement,and an angel statement ,and christ himself statement ,and other witnesses ,taking the statement of a truly confused man ,from making one mistake,and then to another ,do not fall on the mistake of others ;make sound judgement based on true solid statement ;

    Jn 1:33 I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
    Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”

    September 19, 2013 at 8:36 pm#776831
    DavidL
    Participant

    These debates over doctrine only produces the fruit of bitterness, and never bring people any closer to the truth..my advice is not to get tangled up in them..it actually leads you away from the Spirit’s guidance..to rely instead on human reasoning for our understanding..
    –
    I believe that when we’re born again, we are given a divine revelation of Jesus as God, in our spirit…which is why we never have to question it.. until men with carnal understanding use Scripture to question and deny this truth about Jesus – Colossians 2:9

    September 19, 2013 at 9:36 pm#776832
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Tell me then brother. If this is true, then why did you engage me in a debate. I never asked for a debate. I only wanted to share what scripture was teaching, but most denominations were ignoring. I thought you being zealous would understand these scriptures. And this is easy for you to say. Much of your belief is permissible because the early Reformers challenged the many false doctrines of their day. If it were not for them, we may still be in the dark ages without a bible to read from and believing all kinds of superstitions as a result. Be careful what you say David, there is much more to your words than just how you are feeling. I mean had you lived back then, would you be attacking these Reformers too? Do you not think it is possible that God could be reforming the Church even further. Or are we at the point of knowing all now? No, we are still learning and we still need to throw out many traditions and creeds of men that have crept in over the centuries just as our brother Paul warned us about.

    And your belief that being born again means that you believe that Jesus is God is your opinion. What scripture teaches us that this is the foundation of the Church?

    The true confession that all will eventually get around to saying (including you) is that Jesus is Lord and we will confess this to the glory of God the Father who is the only true God. We are also required to believe that he is the son of this true God and the messiah that this God sent. If this upsets you then you need to ask yourself some hard questions.

    You cannot refute my words because they are scripture and there is not one ounce of a man-made creed or tradition that I have spoken in this post. If you want to fight the Word of God, then it will only cut you up.

    And if you truly believe that debating is wrong then why do you continue to do so. Surely that is an obvious question you should have asked yourself, even before making that statement.

    I am not here to bring harm to you David, but I am here to defend the faith that was delivered to us by Jesus and the Apostles. Whatever side you fall on here is up to you, but I will not apologise for teaching the foundation. I would rather you get upset than build on any other foundation and be in happy ignorance.

    Also please be aware that I am not challenging you in any way as to your relationship with God and his son Jesus Christ. I encourage you to continue being zealous for them, but not as Saul, but Paul.

    September 20, 2013 at 1:10 am#776833
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi All,

    My confession regarding Jesus is this:

    “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:16)

    We must all remember that Jesus was begotten BY God. (Psalm 2:7, John 3:16)

    Jesus is a creation OF God. (Col 1:15, Rev 3:14)

    Jesus is the Son OF God. (Matt 16:16)

    Jesus is the Word/Spokesman OF God. (John 1:1, Rev 19:13)

    Jesus is the Messiah/Christ/Anointed One OF God. (Luke 2:11, Acts 2:36)

    Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb OF God. (John 1:29, Rev 7:10)

    Jesus is the Holy one OF God. (Mark 1:24, John 6:69)

    Jesus is a prophet OF God. (Luke 4:24, Acts 3:22)

    Jesus is an angel/messenger OF God. (John 8:28, 12:49,

    Galatians 4:14, Revelation 22:16)

    Jesus is the mediator BETWEEN God and men. (1 Tim 2:5)

    Jesus is a Priest OF God. (Heb 5:10)

    Jesus is a Servant OF God. (Acts 4:30)

    Jesus OBEYS God. (John 8:29, 12:49)

    Jesus WORSHIPS God. (John 4:22)

    Jesus says his God is greater than him, and all. (John 14:28, 10:29)

    Jesus says that our God is also his own God. (John 20:17, Rev 3:12)

    Jesus distinguishes himself as someone OTHER THAN his God. (John 10:36, 17:3)

    Jesus was sent BY God. (Gal 4:4)

    Jesus sits at the right hand OF God. (Mark 16:19, Acts 2:33)

    Jesus rules in the power, authority, and name OF God. (Micah 5:4, Matt 28:18)

    Jesus will hand the reign of the Kingdom back to his own God. (1 Cor 15:24, 28)

    When I hear people saying that things that CONTRADICT the scriptures were “revealed to them by spirit”, I think of this verse:

    1 John 4:1
    Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

    A spirit from God would NEVER tell someone something that CONTRADICTS many clear scriptures. If a spirit is telling any one of you that Jesus actually IS the very God he is the SON OF, then you need to test that spirit against the scriptures. God gave us the scriptures and common sense for a reason. We need to use BOTH of them.

    September 20, 2013 at 3:47 pm#777106
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    SO MEN VIEW OVERRUNS GOD DIRECT STATEMENT ??? HUMM ,IS THAT WISE ???

    September 20, 2013 at 8:26 pm#776834
    DavidL
    Participant

    Paul in 2 Corinthians 11 declares his grave concern for believers stating that just as the Serpent deceived Eve in the garden, so also Satan might lead them astray IN THEIR MINDS from that place of simple dependence on Jesus Christ…
    –
    In this we can see that the very first temptation in the garden is still used by the enemy today to confound and lead believers astray..
    –
    JESUS IS LORD
    Everyone here accepts and believes that Jesus Christ is Lord ( meaning: Master, Ruler, one who possess supreme authority) This is also my confession – not just as supreme Ruler of the world..but Beloved Master of my life.
    –
    JESUS IS GOD
    Here this supreme title of Jesus, as God, is denied because of bias against church doctrine and creeds (and reliance on human understanding and carnal reasoning), yet throughout the whole Bible Jesus is clearly identified as God. (Isaiah 9:6 – Revelation 1:8)
    This is spoken of by the Apostles as a great mystery (Vines describes a mystery as, ‘being outside the range of unassisted natural apprehension’ – which explains why some people have a problem with it).
    –
    When one is saved, and reads their Bible.. the Divinity of Jesus (as GOD) is a revelation imparted to the Believer (in his spirit) by the Holy Spirit..
    They have a pure and simple understanding of Jesus (which is why most believers don’t have a problem with this)…until, the Deceiver comes along..”Yea, hath God said…?” (Genesis 3:1)
    –
    The pure and simple Word of God is suddenly brought into question, and the seed of doubt planted IN THE MIND.. ‘does the Bible really say, the Word WAS God.. or is it really that the Bible translator is putting his own doctrinal bias onto this verse…??? Maybe he didn’t understand koinie Greek as well as he should have, and made a mistake with the definite Article..???’ and so the deception starts…
    –
    Then comes the denial, and the contradiction – ‘No, Jesus isn’t God..’ And now instead of trusting implicitly in what the Bible says, and the revelation we receive through it – we are lead away from this pure and simple dependence, to the speculations of MAN..!!!!
    –
    God would not preserve His Word for us down through the many centuries of darkness and martyrdom, only to present us today with something defective..!!! Trust in the Word completely and rely on the Holy Spirit to guide you – don’t make the mistake of listening to the confusion of those who THINK they understand the Scripture better than others, and even the Bible translators themselves…!!!

    September 21, 2013 at 11:50 pm#776835
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    For sure Jesus is called a god in a few scriptures. But he is also clearly called the Son of the MOST HIGH God.

    There are indeed many gods and many lords, in heaven and on earth – just as Paul clearly told us in 1 Cor 8:5 – and as is attested in many, many other scriptures.

    Satan is one of these gods. Jesus is also one of them. Angels and demons are also called gods in many scriptures.

    So the only question that remains is: Where in scripture is Jesus ever called the MOST HIGH god? Because we know he is called the SON OF the Most High God in Luke 1:32 and 8:28.

    September 22, 2013 at 2:17 am#777107
    DavidL
    Participant

    MY BIBLE tells me – the Word WAS God…!!!
    YOU tell me – my Bible’s wrong…!!!
    –
    (simple question) – Who do I listen to..??
    –
    (easy answer) – My Bible..!!
    –
    I put my whole trust in God’s inspired Word – and NOT in man’s philosophy. END OF STORY.!!!

    September 22, 2013 at 2:21 am#776836
    DavidL
    Participant

    MY BIBLE tells me – the Word WAS God…!!!
    YOU tell me – my Bible’s wrong…!!!
    –
    (simple question) – Who do I listen to..??
    –
    (easy answer) – My Bible..!!
    –
    I put my whole trust in God’s inspired Word – and NOT in man’s philosophy. END OF STORY.!!!

    September 26, 2013 at 2:21 am#776837
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi David,

    I think you mean that your Trinitarian-sponsored ENGLISH TRANSLATION of the Bible tells you the Word was GOD…!!!

    The NWT tells me the Word was a god. Now, would it be fair for me to say, “MY BIBLE tells me – the Word was a god…!!! END OF STORY.!!!” ? Of course not. Because then we would be arguing one man’s TRANSLATION of a Greek scripture against another man’s TRANSLATION of a Greek scripture.

    So there are some things that you need to first know:

    1. Even the TRINITARIAN scholars will tell you that “a god” is grammatically just as faithful a translation of John 1:1c as “God” is.

    2. There is no indefinite article in the Hebrew or Greek languages. So every time in scripture you read the English article “a”, it was added by English translators so that the sentences make sense to us who speak English. (The “a” is added about 7000 times in scripture.)

    3. In John 1:1c, there is neither indefinite “a”, nor definite “the”. So for a translation of “God”, we have to ADD the definite article “the”. And for a translation of “a god”, we have to ADD the indefinite article “a”. Either way, an addition is being made.

    4. These following words are from the 25 TRINITARIAN scholars who produced the NET Bible translation…………

    Colwell’s Rule is often invoked to support the translation of θεός (qeos) as definite (“God”) rather than indefinite (“a god”) here. However, Colwell’s Rule merely permits, but does not demand, that a predicate nominative ahead of an equative verb be translated as definite rather than indefinite. Furthermore, Colwell’s Rule did not deal with a third possibility, that the anarthrous predicate noun may have more of a qualitative nuance when placed ahead of the verb.

    You’ll notice that there are THREE choices of translation. One is to add the definite – “God”. One is to add the indefinite – “a god”. And the third is to understand it as saying the Word was “qualitatively god”. (Others translate it adjectivally, as “divine”, or “godlike”. But the Greek word “theos” in part c is not written in the adjectival form.)

    So, out of our three choices, the second and third are basically the same thing. Because for one to be “qualitatively man”, that one is also, by necessity, “a man”. Likewise, for one to be “qualitatively god”, that one is also “a god”.

    So now we’re down to “the god”, or “a god”. Here is some more from those same 25 Trinitarian scholars from NET Bible………….

    The construction in John 1:1c does not equate the Word with the person of God (this is ruled out by 1:1b, “the Word was with God”)……..

    This is the one I’d like to ask you about. Are you able to see that if the Word actually was “God”, then John 1:1 says that our ONE and ONLY God was WITH our ONE and ONLY God in the beginning. How in the world can ONE THING be WITH itself?

    So read that last quote from the NET scholars once again – and tell me if you, like these Trinitarians, are honest enough with yourself to conclude that the Word couldn’t actually be the person of God, because that is ruled out by part b.

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