What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God.
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’.
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Let’s take a look at what different persons or beings believed about who Jesus Christ of Nazareth really was.

The foundation of the Catholic Church (&  most  Protestant churches)

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons make up one God. But rather than each being one-third of God, each person is co-equal and co-eternal, and 100% God

Now compare the above to what others in scripture confess about the identity and role of Jesus Christ.

Demons

Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. (Luke 4:41)

“What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me.”
For he said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He said to him, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Nowhere do demons say Jesus is God. Instead they knew that he was the son of God.

Satan

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Nowhere is it written that Satan calls Jesus God. Rather he too knows that Jesus is the son of God.

Roman centurion

“Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)

Among this centurion, all the other onlookers, those that heard the words of Jesus, and even those that only heard about him, none of them ever said that Jesus was God, Instead they said he was either mad, a false prophet, a true prophet, Elijah, John the Baptist, the messiah, and the son of God. For the centurion to utter these true words, it must have been obvious that Jesus was claiming to be the son of God, to his mind at least.

Peter

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, (Matthew 16:17-18)

If you were given the opportunity from Jesus to answer the same question from Jesus, “who am I”, would your answer be as Peter or would it instead be “you are God”. If it is the latter, do you not think it at least strange that Peter didn’t take this opportunity to say that Jesus was God like you would? I mean, do you know more than Peter? Surely if the foundation of the Church were really the Trinity, then Peter would have said that Jesus was God and part of the Trinity and then Jesus would have built his Church on that. Instead what we clearly see is that the foundation was built on the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

Peter clearly acknowledges that God is the Heavenly Father and that he is the God of Jesus. This is quite different to the Trinity Doctrine which confesses that Jesus is God and part of a Triune God. Nowhere is it written that Peter said or taught that Jesus Christ is God.

John

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)

The Book of John is said to be the book that teaches the Trinity. After all, most consider John 1:1 to be the cornerstone of the Trinity Doctrine. Yet the truth is that the whole point of the Book of John was to believe what John said above, Is it not strange then that men say that John was teaching the Trinity when John himself says that his book was written so that you would believe  that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.

John also wrote in the first verse of the Book of Revelation the following:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Revelation 1:1)

Clearly God and Jesus are different. And John gave a warning about this book.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19)

If you believe that the Book of Revelation teaches Jesus is God or part of the Trinity, then you are clearly adding to these words of this book.

Paul

Paul’s creed is as follows:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Notice that Paul says for US, there is ONE God the Father and ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. So why is it then that many others basically say, for THEM, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit. Surely this is a departure from the truth.

In case you think this is just a difficult translation, Paul basically repeats his creed here:

there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:4)

Where in Paul’s creed is the Trinity? Where in Paul’s creed is Jesus is God. Clearly according to our brother Paul, Jesus is the Lord and the Son. And to show you that Lord is different to God, I present you with the words of Peter:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

So Paul and Peter demonstrate that Paul was an avid teacher of Jesus being the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord and that it was God who made Jesus Lord. Nowhere does Paul teach that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Gabriel

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:32-35)

God’s messenger Gabriel, tell us who Jesus is. Nowhere in scripture does Gabriel or any other angel state that Jesus is God or part of the Trinity. He even forecasts that he will be called the Son of the Most High. Who is the Most High then? Certainly not Jesus because he is his son of the Most High.

Jesus

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)

To those who won’t listen to Peter, John, or Paul, surely they will listen to the words of Jesus? And if anyone knew who Jesus was it would surely be Jesus himself. So what does Jesus say about God and himself? He states that the following truth is eternal life. And what truth is that? Is it the Trinity as many would have you believe? Is it that Jesus is God? No, it is that the Father is the only true God and that the only true God sent Jesus Christ into the world.

Do we believe what Jesus said, or shall we believe the cleverly devised fables of men and doctrines of demons which seems to be the majority’s opinion on this subject.

The Father

“This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.” (Mark 9:7)

Notice that the highest authority in existence (the Father) did not say that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. He never even hinted at such an idea. If you or anyone else rejects Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus words above, then will you listen to the Father?

So what should your confession be?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.. (1 John 2:22)

Clearly, Jesus is the messiah and the son of God. To believe otherwise is of the antichrist spirit. Replacing this with a doctrine that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity is clearly wrong. Believing this and adding it as a requirement is even worse. Yet many churches have done this very thing by making the Trinity Doctrine the foundation of their church. In scripture we clearly see that the true Church is the Body of Christ and this Church is built on the truth that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Not the Trinity as many expect.

Now that we can see from scripture who Jesus really is, what should be our confession right now? It should be that Jesus Christ is Lord.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge 
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

So why not start today. Instead of confessing that Jesus Christ is God, why not confess the truth instead, that Jesus Christ is Lord, the son of God, and the messiah. If you truly believe that, then you believe correctly regarding who Jesus is and this is important because it is the Father who has revealed the son to us.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 561 through 580 (of 858 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #796011
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Indeed the verses here refer to the Son or to Jesus Christ or Christ.

    None refer just to JESUS.

     

    Do you think the word CHRIST meaning ANOINTED makes a difference?

     

    The flesh contributes nothing

    #796012
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Was Jesus the son of God before his baptism?

    #796013
    NickHassan
    Participant

    hi t8,

    He was the son of God through conception.

    But he was not yet a spiritual son of God.

    That is the sonship that we can follow.

     

    Do you think it relates to his physical sonship or his spiritual sonship?

    #796015
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T8

    1 John 1-3
    That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ

     

    Here in the same passage we see Jesus Christ, the Son, and the WORD of life, the eternal life which was with the Father.

    Do you think it means the Anointing on Jesus is the Word and the Sonship is spiritual?

    #796016
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    So your view is that he was the physical son of God at birth, (like Adam), then became the spiritual son at baptism. Is that right?

    BTW, if you copy your post as it appears, and paste it back in in Text Mode, it should render the code.

    #796018
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Indeed.

    Son of man and God.

    Then exclusively Son of God

    #796020
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    When scripture writes Jesus Christ or Christ is it OK for us to change that to Jesus?

    #796021
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi ED,

    Jesus was born again at the Jordan.

    We follow him.

    Hi Nick,

    Is that when “The Word” maketh the son?

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    Hi ED,

    You mean heb 7.28

    But the word OF THE OATH maketh the son..”

    A promise

    Hi Nick,

    My question is: when was this promise fulfilled?

    1. At Bethlehem? (the house of bread)
    2. At Jordan? (the river of judgement)

    I say #1.
    What say you?

    #796022
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    When scripture writes Jesus Christ or Christ is it OK for us to change that to Jesus?

    What happens if we say that Jesus is not the Christ?

    Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist–denying the Father and the Son.

    You deny that he is the Christ before baptism right? Is the above applicable.

    It doesn’t say that those that deny he was the Christ after baptism, and it doesn’t say that if we deny that Jesus Christ is the Christ.

    It just says that if we deny that Jesus is the Christ.

    #796023
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T8,

    Jesus is the Christ.

    He was known in prophecy as the Christ before then.

     

    So you feel entitled to change the words of scripture as it suits?

    #796024
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi ed,

    Exclusive sonship to God is from the Jordan

    #796025
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    So your view is that he was the physical son of God at birth, (like Adam), then became the spiritual son at baptism, then this begs the question, which son status did God create all things through him and for him?

    but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

    #796028
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    No I don’t feel entitled to change anything. Jesus of Nazareth is I think the most common term and am happy to read what it says in each verse.

    My point is that you have to say that Jesus was not the Christ before baptism which if wrong, would mean that the below is applicable right.

    Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist–denying the Father and the Son.

    I noted that it doesn’t say that those that deny he was the Christ after baptism, and it doesn’t say that if we deny that Jesus Christ is the Christ.

    It just says that if we deny that Jesus is the Christ which you are obviously and openly doing regarding Jesus of Nazareth. You may be right of course, but I am not that brave to take this stance myself knowing the consequences of being wrong. What would happen for example, if Jesus was the Christ before the foundation of the world as he is the lamb? What if his baptism was merely the sign of his Christship and the start of that ministry. Does that mean that he was not the Christ before? Was he the Christ and the lamb, but emptied himself and at the right season God restored it? Are the Lamb of God and messiah are wrapped up together and if so, what does it mean ‘foundation of the world’.

    It is also written that he emptied himself, and obviously it was God that filled him. And that he did not regard equality with God something to be grasped. But does that not make him the Christ at any point? Maybe he was all these things, but put them aside for a time for his time was not yet, but never denying them at anytime.

    #796031
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    The creation was by the Spirit. Ps 104.

    This is not in conflict with your verse because “Now the Lord is the Spirit”

    The Spirit is eternal.

     

    The Sons of God are led by the Spirit of God.

     

    Do you think the Son was in the beginning with God? The Word was and the Word is the Spirit of Christ.

     

    #796033
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    You are being confused by the unusual and not necessarily logical sense of spiritual time.

    Jesus Christ IS the same yesterday today and forever for example

    One day can be 1000 years is another example.

    #796037
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Why fear the consequences of being wrong about Jesus T8? God is with you! does God or Jesus judge us based on our theological correctness? and is the consequence just being forever dead? it ain’t so bad is it-just to sleep with our fathers?

    #796047
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

    Without the anointing though he was just a godfearing Jewish carpenter.

    #796049
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Wow Nick,so you don’t think he was Lord at his birth? as Luke’s gospel says? You think he really was just a mere man that was so good that God chose him as a special son?

    #796052
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andrew,

    The prophets recognised his future status.

     

    #796053
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Andre,

    So did the astrologers.

     

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